Gunslinger lacking key sniper moves

[MaroBaro]

I have a lvl 50 sniper so I was just screwing around and made a gunslinger... At lvl 4 I can tell u there are 2 huge problems:

1) I can't probe/snipe someone

2) the skill that is supposed to be your snipe has a longer interruptible animation after the 1.5 secs.

 

That is pretty bad

[Estinius]

I heard that snipers have more ranged than their mirror Gunslinger. They can shoot up to 40 meters while Gunslingers can only do 35.

[PariahMessiah]

Baseless lies. Snipers have a 35 meter range just like GS's

[Ukita]

The one thing snipers don't have to worry about that gunslingers do is how much you're really getting out of your second weapon. Still haven't exactly done the math, but I'm pretty sure there's something about dual weapons that make them less efficient at dealing damage than a single weapon counterpart.

[Junostorm]

The one thing snipers don't have to worry about that gunslingers do is how much you're really getting out of your second weapon. Still haven't exactly done the math, but I'm pretty sure there's something about dual weapons that make them less efficient at dealing damage than a single weapon counterpart.

 

Two rolls for GS vs Sniper's one. Plus the ACC reduction on the OH wpn leads to a lot of miss, dodge, deflect, etc... spam.

[JoyProtocol]

The one thing snipers don't have to worry about that gunslingers do is how much you're really getting out of your second weapon. Still haven't exactly done the math, but I'm pretty sure there's something about dual weapons that make them less efficient at dealing damage than a single weapon counterpart.

 

 

I'll bite

 

Sniper rifle

http://www.torhead.com/item/6vqA9Ot/battlemaster-enforcers-sniper-rifle

413.0-505.0 Energy Damage (Average of 459)

+103 Cunning

+126 Endurance

+51 Expertise Rating

+77 Critical Rating

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/8a5KbPR/battlemaster-enforcers-knife

Vibroknife (Last I heard, this is a stat stick)

330.0-494.0 Kinetic Damage

+85 Cunning

+98 Endurance

+51 Expertise Rating

+82 Power

 

Total:

459 Average Damage (505 max)

 

+188 Cunning

+224 Endurance

+102 Expertise

+ 77 Crit

+ 82 Power

 

-------------------------

 

Blaster

http://www.torhead.com/item/6Bsruwg/battlemaster-enforcers-blaster

268.0-497.0 Energy Damage (Average of 380.5)

+103 Cunning

+126 Endurance

+51 Expertise Rating

+77 Power

 

Off-hand Blaster

http://www.torhead.com/item/6nTUDw6/battlemaster-enforcers-offhand-blaster

268.0-497.0 Energy Damage (Average of 76)

+103 Cunning

+126 Endurance

+51 Expertise Rating

+77 Power

 

Total Stats:

Average of 457 Damage (Max of 597)

+206 Cunning

+252 Endurance

+102 Expertise

+154 Power

 

-----------

 

*ADJUSTED for real numbers*

Off-Hand weapons deal 30% damage and have 33% accuracy penalty.

The damage becomes Average*.3*.67 ~= 76.

 

-----------

 

So for a total, we have:

Gunslingers:

- Deal 2 damage less on average; more affected by RNG; benefit more from accuracy. Deal 92 more MAXIMUM damage if the stars align.

- Receive 18 more cunning

- Receive 77 less crit rating

- Receive 72 more Power rating

 

* Also potentially can have an augment on the off-hand. I don't believe that is an option for Snipers

Edited February 23, 2012 by JoyProtocol

[barreness]

Nice work joy:D

[FlynnFlon]

Meh I'll take the bait too..

 

..no such thing as a 4th lvl Gunslinger

 

 

 

Oh and having played 4 classes to post 35th IMHO GS is the weakest class of them all and not sue to cover either

[Junostorm]

Joy for the OH it is 30% damage and -33% ACC.

[Scotland]

i was thinking about the dual weapon when it came to the 5k medal in wz's

 

does it work with both attacks or just 1 of them?

 

silly question but i had to ask!

[Beermefatty]

My 2 creds....

 

I have a 50 Agent ( Sniper ) AND a 50 Smug ( 'slinger )

 

The numbers appear bigger with my sniper, but thats only because there is not a second number slightly trailing behind the first, sometimes difficult to see. This does seem to make a difference for my Ambush crits in WZ's trying to get the 2.5K hit in one shot is more difficult for a GS, as it only registers the crit from the MH gun.. at least this is what I have noticed, but I may be wrong.

 

I also notice the difference between the GS Sab charge ( explosive probe for agents ). When We cast it, the animation is akin to throwing a frizbee that spins through the air, very slowly, then sticks to the target, then exploding....

 

The Agents explosive probe drops IMMEDIATLY out of the sky.

 

Other than that... not too many glaring differences

[MaroBaro]

My 2 creds....

 

I have a 50 Agent ( Sniper ) AND a 50 Smug ( 'slinger )

 

The numbers appear bigger with my sniper, but thats only because there is not a second number slightly trailing behind the first, sometimes difficult to see. This does seem to make a difference for my Ambush crits in WZ's trying to get the 2.5K hit in one shot is more difficult for a GS, as it only registers the crit from the MH gun.. at least this is what I have noticed, but I may be wrong.

 

I also notice the difference between the GS Sab charge ( explosive probe for agents ). When We cast it, the animation is akin to throwing a frizbee that spins through the air, very slowly, then sticks to the target, then exploding....

 

The Agents explosive probe drops IMMEDIATLY out of the sky.

 

Other than that... not too many glaring differences

 

That is exactly my point. With sniper I can ambush and just as the shot is fired put an explosive probe that gets ignited by the ambush since ambush takes a bit of time to get ther.... So in essence I do like 6-7k damage right there. With the gunslinger you cannot do that and I think it is a major disadvantage.

 

Also, since Snipe is one shot I pretty much can do something else imediatly after the 1.5 secs or after my insta-snipe. With the gunslinger I need to wait for the animation of firing like 2shots from each gun before I can move for instance. Also, the Snipe shot seems to travel a lot faster. Basically it seems that for about .2 seconds after the 1.5 charge you should not move because that will basically cancel half or the full shot while you can imediatly move after the 1.5 seconds with a sniper. Also, because the snipe shot gets there almost instantly you visually register that you can move a lot faster than with the slow crap the gunslingers have.

[contacts]

I have a lvl 50 sniper so I was just screwing around and made a gunslinger... At lvl 4 I can tell u there are 2 huge problems:

1) I can't probe/snipe someone

2) the skill that is supposed to be your snipe has a longer interruptible animation after the 1.5 secs.

 

That is pretty bad

 

 

Yeah, *** c'mon mirror class balance. at least pretend!

 

" 1) I can't probe/snipe someone"

due to animation issues/skills, snipers can throw a "sab charge" then blow it with an "aim shot" or "charged shot" .........AFTER it has been cast. they dont have the whole throw the slow soft ball animation then cast their big hit.

 

"2) the skill that is supposed to be your snipe has a longer interruptible animation after the 1.5 secs."

this is noticeable even in PvE... while pvping its just an embarrassment in balancing.

 

 

3rd, which is not noted above, is the melee stun. GS melee stun requires a root animation while casting.. snipers do not.

 

 

oooookay??!!???

[JoyProtocol]

I have updated the chart. Maybe I should post it in it's own thread...

 

And yes, for the purpose of medals, only the main hand weapon counts. Gunslingers have a lower maximum damage, and a much greater range for that damage, meaning that theoretically, Sniper will earn 5k medals more frequently.

 

As far as the differences go...

- Having played around with it, I find LACK of insta-burst explosive probe to be unnoticable. Subjectively, it appears to create a smoother damage transition. I have not had any trouble spiking damage on my Gunslinger compared to my Sniper.

 

- The Charged Burst has no QOL effect on me. You are aware the game supports queueing up of abilities, right? If you're unsure, check your settings.

 

- The Dirty Kick animation is a bit annoying... but I've come to use it as a defensive stun, where it really doesn't matter to me as I'm not moving anywhere.

 

It would be nice if the Dirty Kick animation was changed; I also suspect the explosive probe is a bug, not a feature.

 

Gunslingers have a faster acting Execute, less noticeable animations, and drastically less noticeably Shock Charge.

[GingerMagician]

Im 50 gs with 619 expertise and duel wielding with 2 champion blasters and over 1300 to cunning.Ive never got a 5k damage medal and my best hit is no more than 4k or so.

Ive also never seen any other gunslinger on my server get this medal.

Edited February 23, 2012 by GingerMagician

[JoyProtocol]

Im 50 gs with 619 expertise and duel wielding with 2 champion blasters and over 1300 to cunning.Ive never got a 5k damage medal and my best hit is no more than 4k or so.

Ive also never seen any other gunslinger on my server get this medal.

 

What is your spec? What are your stats?

From what I gather from both Sniper and GS forums, at 50 you want a full-blown Marksman/Sharpshooter build, with a heavy power/surge build. That is, if you care about the 5k medal.

[Battlereaver]

I am full Sharp shooter with Rakata/Columni gear and I have 1700 cunning with my stim on and I have hit 5k only a couple times in pvp because of expertise really and me only having 2 pieces of champ gear lol.

[Elysion]

As someone who played a 50 MM sniper i have a question about gunslingers.

 

Once you make your version of snipe 'instant', does it have any animations or anything that keep you stuck in place?

 

Because as a 50 mm sniper im very mobile, with me being able to hit f -> 2(my snipe button) and instantly crouch and snipe then be on my way again with a followthrough. No stopping other than for ambush.

 

op mentions a longer animation on gunslinger snipe, and im just wondering if that, whatever it is, stays around even after you have talented for instant ones in cover.

[Altharas]

As someone who played a 50 MM sniper i have a question about gunslingers.

 

Once you make your version of snipe 'instant', does it have any animations or anything that keep you stuck in place?

 

Because as a 50 mm sniper im very mobile, with me being able to hit f -> 2(my snipe button) and instantly crouch and snipe then be on my way again with a followthrough. No stopping other than for ambush.

 

op mentions a longer animation on gunslinger snipe, and im just wondering if that, whatever it is, stays around even after you have talented for instant ones in cover.

 

The animation isn't longer on the snipe equivalent, the damage is dealt instantly. This holds true for the instant version, you don't get held down, like your sniper you can cover, fire move and then trick shot. If he's talking about the explosive charge skill, it has a long animation, but ANY damage after you have pressed explosive charge will trigger it, regardless of whether or not the charge's animation reached the target.

[Tamanous]

Im 50 gs with 619 expertise and duel wielding with 2 champion blasters and over 1300 to cunning.Ive never got a 5k damage medal and my best hit is no more than 4k or so.

Ive also never seen any other gunslinger on my server get this medal.

 

1300 cunning is rather low though. Also I have seen a lot of players wasting surge past the soft cap that could go to power. Also MANY of those uber crits we see and hear are from stacked offensive stats, clickies and buff stacking for what is still allowed.

 

I agree with above poster too. Make sure you understand the difference between the animation and the effect. Very often with many classes the effect goes off regardless of the animation. I simply ignore animations and cut them off knowing the effect has gone off already. Obviously there are some painful exceptions (sorry Commandos )

Edited February 23, 2012 by Tamanous

[JoyProtocol]

FYI - WoW is often used as a measuring stick, because they have had 7 years to polish stuff. As recently as Cataclysm, WoW had animation issues slowing down attacks. All high-level player guides would suggest macros that included a command to interrupt current action. This would increase responsiveness, and dps/hps noticeably.

[Phated]

Bottom line is that most of the republic classes got shafted the same way. Their animations take more time than their empire counterparts, preventing them from doing as much burst damage. Consulars' Project ability takes a second to hit whereas Shock is instant. I forget which ability is effected for the trooper/bh since I haven't played one since beta, but I know there is at least one. Dirty Kick is another problem for smugglers. They actually have to stop moving and take the second to go through the animation while Agents can stab on the move.

 

By themselves, it would be a minor annoyance, but when there are so many instances where the animation time screws over one class and it's ALWAYS the republic class it becomes a much larger problem.

[Excidium]

It's really annoying that you can't do the snipe -> probe combo on the smuggler.

 

I forget which ability is effected for the trooper/bh since I haven't played one since beta, but I know there is at least one.

That's Death From Above (BH) / Mortar Volley (Trooper)

 

The trooper version has around a 1.5 seconds delay before the damage starts, and it continues firing 1.5 seconds after the cast-time is over so it's basically a bug they never fixed. It felt p. awful when I played a trooper alt, 1.5 sec is more than enough time for people to run away from the big blue aoe symbol on the floor, so you always end up missing a hit or two.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Excidium

[TheOpf]

Dirty Kick is another problem for smugglers. They actually have to stop moving and take the second to go through the animation while Agents can stab on the move.

 

By themselves, it would be a minor annoyance, but when there are so many instances where the animation time screws over one class and it's ALWAYS the republic class it becomes a much larger problem.

 

 

The dirty kick issue is not exactly true. It is about a 50/50 split whether it will activate on the move or not. I have had it activate while running through someone. However, if you aren't facing them directly and/or running beside them it won't let me click it saying it can't target them.

 

So in the end

 

Dirty Kick - Face enemy and it works while moving whether jumping through, running back to front or front to back. If running side to side or strafing it doesn't work unless you stop directly in front of them to activate the animation.

 

Any type of lag issue will screw it all up - Right now that means about 10 percent of us can't pull the move off so we die.

[Phated]

The dirty kick issue is not exactly true. It is about a 50/50 split whether it will activate on the move or not. I have had it activate while running through someone. However, if you aren't facing them directly and/or running beside them it won't let me click it saying it can't target them.

 

So in the end

 

Dirty Kick - Face enemy and it works while moving whether jumping through, running back to front or front to back. If running side to side or strafing it doesn't work unless you stop directly in front of them to activate the animation.

 

Any type of lag issue will screw it all up - Right now that means about 10 percent of us can't pull the move off so we die.

 

Being able to use it or having issues with it not going off isn't what I was talking about. When you do use it, your character stops moving for about half a second while you do the kick animation regardless of whether you were running or not. The agent has no such issue, they can use theirs without slowing down. It's just another example of slow animations screwing republic classes and not their empire counterparts.