Vydor_HC Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Your definition of player is also different too I think. Your companion is part of your "player" for you, if I understand you correctly. I don't think he is. We can sum it up to the gear usage. Most people I don't think run dailies by themselves with their companions at lvl 50. Most people do PvP or HM FPs/OPs dailies. That requires their character. Not their companion. While your companion is off on his diplomacy mission with that full rakata gear you have on him, 5 other players out there are running FPs/OPs minus one of those pieces. It's about gear usage. Human players put it to better use. I know this is a response to another person, but let me add something. If I'm running with a pug, I have no vested interest in the group after we are done..so the need will be for me and my character first, I'd more likely roll for a companion in that case. If I'm going with a group that I run with regularly, then the need of other players is the same as my own. So, skipping need for the companion would not harm me, since in essence the need is for the group and not for my character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No it's implying I've seen that happen so many times. Win the gear they need/want and leave the group. But by god if you break their NBG rules you're the bad one. I could roll need for my companion and leave the group just as well... That player is a bigger jerk than you sir. And there is nothing any set of community etiquette can do to prevent that type of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's pretty obvious that you're really just a selfish person, and there's no point even trying to argue with you. Agree with it, or don't. I'm still going to do what I see fit to people who need for something that wasn't even in the run. Also known as "I'm going to get revenge on anyone who doesn't follow my loot rules to the letter" OR "Follow my loot rules or else". Dude, just use Master Looter, that way you can divvy up the loot as you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souloferdrick Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Its the new dialectic for the new mmo...mains vs companions. Hey BW, if you really wanna fix this in the most amicable way possible, make up to par companion gear available outside of grouping. You guys can work out how to do it and all that but thats the answer if you want to appease both groups as opposed to one or the other. If you eliminate the need to even think about rolling for group loot for companions, you kill two birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Because they think the companion is less important to the game or the group than a PC is. That still doesn't say why someone "need rolling for a companion without asking if your group minds is a grade A dirtbag thing to do" Having a different opinion on what is important about a character makes someone a grade A dirtbag? How does that make any sense at all? Your definition of player is also different too I think. Your companion is part of your "player" for you, if I understand you correctly. No, the player is the human, sitting behind the keyboard. The player plays several avatars; all but one of them are labeled as companions. I mean, I keep pointing out that the "flesh and blood players should get priority" thing doesn't make any sense, because wherever that person puts the loot, it benefits a flesh and blood player... Most people I don't think run dailies by themselves with their companions at lvl 50.I do; I'm currently soloing 2 of the 4 level 50 heroics for mods for a friend who just hit level 50. Most people do PvP or HM FPs/OPs dailies. maybe they do; I'm more than a bit skeptical about "most". The general statistic I see about MMO's is that the vast majority of people don't hit max level, and the ones who grind out daily hard mode dungeons, pvp, and raids are a subset of those people. Keep in mind that this discussion is definitely not specific to level 50. In fact, some of the comments seem to clearly indicate that some of the people in the thread haven't hit 50 yet, and they are therefore specifically talking about leveling situations. even the OP was talking about low levels, I think. put it to better use.Different use perhaps. I wouldn't say better. Why is it that those people, doing what they want to do is better use of the gear than me doing what I want to do? Edited February 22, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 When any semblance of a working LFG tool comes online, you won't have any leg to stand on when posturing that someone else that was randomly grouped with you should do as you say when it comes to loot. I'm being quite serious. Bioware is currently working on the NBG system. Which honestly is the main reason the change stated by the Bioware designer really is called for. Right now, it's a little easier to discuss loot before a run and have everyone agree and stick to it. Once a cross server LFFP system hits, people will need on items they want even if you do discuss it before hand. Them changing the system to where the need button is only lit if the primary stat matches your class is honestly the best way to go. And honestly, will eventually make this whole argument moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irusan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Haha, it's all good. It's always refreshing to find someone that doesn't "L2P" or "QQ more" come backs when trying to talk things out. I don't get upset if it's greens, or even blues. I know those are a dime a dozen, but those oranges and purples I feel like a human can use better. And I'll answer that below. Your definition of player is also different too I think. Your companion is part of your "player" for you, if I understand you correctly. I don't think he is. We can sum it up to the gear usage. Most people I don't think run dailies by themselves with their companions at lvl 50. Most people do PvP or HM FPs/OPs dailies. That requires their character. Not their companion. While your companion is off on his diplomacy mission with that full rakata gear you have on him, 5 other players out there are running FPs/OPs minus one of those pieces. It's about gear usage. Human players put it to better use. I actually do run the dailies on Ilum and Belsavis, usually. I also do not roll need for my companion. Anyone that is that hung up on gearing out their companion can use the daily commendations to do a pretty nice job of this, not to mention one quest actually gives nice orange companion weapons. (Group quest, but can be soloed with a death or two depending on your class) I can't imagine I could do these quests much more efficiently if my companion WAS in full Rakata gear. I think thats more a status symbol thing than something of actual benefit. (My opinion.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I know this is a response to another person, but let me add something. If I'm running with a pug, I have no vested interest in the group after we are done..so the need will be for me and my character first, I'd more likely roll for a companion in that case. If I'm going with a group that I run with regularly, then the need of other players is the same as my own. So, skipping need for the companion would not harm me, since in essence the need is for the group and not for my character. That makes more sense. But why should I discriminate between PUGs and my guildmates? I've actually ran into the same Tank LFG many many times. By allowing him to be better, he can be better for everyone. Why should I be so greedy that I only allow my group to get better knowing it's my permanent group? That guy you need over is in someone else's permanent group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Which honestly is the main reason the change stated by the Bioware designer really is called for. Right now, it's a little easier to discuss loot before a run and have everyone agree and stick to it. Once a cross server LFFP system hits, people will need on items they want even if you do discuss it before hand. Them changing the system to where the need button is only lit if the primary stat matches your class is honestly the best way to go. And honestly, will eventually make this whole argument moot. Hopefully the NBG change comes before any automated LFG tool. Blizzard did it the opposite way....and that didn't work out too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I actually do run the dailies on Ilum and Belsavis, usually. I also do not roll need for my companion. Anyone that is that hung up on gearing out their companion can use the daily commendations to do a pretty nice job of this, not to mention one quest actually gives nice orange companion weapons. (Group quest, but can be soloed with a death or two depending on your class) I can't imagine I could do these quests much more efficiently if my companion WAS in full Rakata gear. I think thats more a status symbol thing than something of actual benefit. (My opinion.)from gearing my healer companion, I can solo all 3 heroics on belsavis; I'm pretty sure I can solo the ones on illum, but I didn't bother because the tank enhancements are meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) That still doesn't say why someone "need rolling for a companion without asking if your group minds is a grade A dirtbag thing to do" Having a different opinion on what is important about a character makes someone a grade A dirtbag? How does that make any sense at all? Oh, I agree with you completely there. It's not justified to say it's a dirtbag thing to do. I thought you were asking why they think greed is the correct roll. The dirtbag attacking thing is just an over-reaction based on an assumption that one personal opinion is better than another personal opinion. I'll fall back to the yoda defense on that one. There is no why. Edited February 22, 2012 by Vecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraye Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Your companions are an extension of your char, if they suck, so do you, its that simple. I have, will and continue to roll need on gear that are worthwhile upgrades for my companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That makes more sense. But why should I discriminate between PUGs and my guildmates? I've actually ran into the same Tank LFG many many times. By allowing him to be better, he can be better for everyone. Why should I be so greedy that I only allow my group to get better knowing it's my permanent group? That guy you need over is in someone else's permanent group. Right, same lines...if you know the person and are confident that helping them get gear will be beneficial to you, then yeah...skipping on needing for your character will be an easier decision to make. That's how I view it..the essence being, it's still some what of a need for my character anyway. If I have no vested in the group, then I'll roll for myself, unless the group has determined ahead of time that's not the rule for the group, then I will follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just pull out your companion healer. I mean, they're just as good as having Humans in your group, right? In some cases, yes, if geared correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 from gearing my healer companion, I can solo all 3 heroics on belsavis; I'm pretty sure I can solo the ones on illum, but I didn't bother because the tank enhancements are meh. I played WOW for 5 years. I know exactly what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irusan Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 from gearing my healer companion, I can solo all 3 heroics on belsavis; I'm pretty sure I can solo the ones on illum, but I didn't bother because the tank enhancements are meh. Off topic, but I am apparently missing one heroic quest there. Theres the one with the 3 terminals that you deactivate, and the one where you kill the Jedi thats guarding the cells that I know, where is the other one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Where did I say it was a jerk move? Back here: No matter which way people try to spin it, need rolling for a companion without asking if your group minds is a grade A dirtbag thing to do and the people that do it know it as well. No, I don't see why you think this is true. I've asked several people but they can't seem to come up with a reason other than "I said so, ok!" That is some serious dissembling there. People have given you many reasons why they think that is true. So, to sum up: KungpowSalmon said it was a grade A dirtbag thing to do I said it's not and that noone bothers to support that claimYou claimed that was dissembling and lpeople have given me many reasons why they think that's true So that's where you said it was a jerk move to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That still doesn't say why someone "need rolling for a companion without asking if your group minds is a grade A dirtbag thing to do" Having a different opinion on what is important about a character makes someone a grade A dirtbag? How does that make any sense at all? No, the player is the human, sitting behind the keyboard. The player plays several avatars; all but one of them are labeled as companions. I mean, I keep pointing out that the "flesh and blood players should get priority" thing doesn't make any sense, because wherever that person puts the loot, it benefits a flesh and blood player... I do; I'm currently soloing 2 of the 4 level 50 heroics for mods for a friend who just hit level 50. maybe they do; I'm more than a bit skeptical about "most". The general statistic I see about MMO's is that the vast majority of people don't hit max level, and the ones who grind out daily hard mode dungeons, pvp, and raids are a subset of those people. Keep in mind that this discussion is definitely not specific to level 50. In fact, some of the comments seem to clearly indicate that some of the people in the thread haven't hit 50 yet, and they are therefore specifically talking about leveling situations. even the OP was talking about low levels, I think. Different use perhaps. I wouldn't say better. Why is it that those people, doing what they want to do is better use of the gear than me doing what I want to do? See, I don't agree with that. For the same reasons you already dismissed. I always play as Darne. But Vette doesn't always play with Darne. Neither does Jaesa, or Broonmark, or anyone else of those 6. My character (and others') are always out there on the battlefield. Your companions are not. Letting someone have gear they will put to use in every single mission they do seems to benefit the community more as a whole than me needing it for my companion who will maybe help me tank one champion or maybe help me heal through one group of strongs. Even if we are talking about lvling up. If you are struggling chances are it's not because of your companion. By your logic since your companion is an extension of you. Do you ever give your companion the better gear? Let me see your gear than your companions. I'm willing to bet you have the better stuff? Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) In some cases, yes, if geared correctly. So, the companion can tell the difference in the tank's HP and the DPS? It knows when to switch and throw out that emergency heal when needed? They can move out of that AOE they're standing in without you having to waste time trying to turn auto attack on and off? Honestly, this is the main reason I don't need for companions over player. I'm fully aware that I wouldn't be running the content I'm running at the time if not for the other 3 players and it makes me feel decent to pass and say "grats man". That's not a ad hominem attack, It's just my personal opinions and belief structure. Edited February 22, 2012 by Galbatorrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 See, I don't agree with that. For the same reasons you already dismissed. I always play as Darne. But Vette doesn't always play with Darne. Neither does Jaesa, or Broonmark, or anyone else of those 6. My character (and others') are always out there on the battlefield. Your companions are not. Letting someone have gear they will put to use in every single mission they do seems to benefit the community more as a whole than me needing it for my companion who will maybe help me tank one champion or maybe help me heal through one group of strongs. Even if we are talking about lvling up. If you are struggling chances are it's not because of your companion. By your logic since your companion is an extension of you. Do you ever give your companion the better gear? Let me see your gear than your companions. I'm willing to bet you have the better stuff? Why is that? Don't you have different sets of gear that you use for different purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So, the companion can tell the difference in the tank's HP and the DPS? It knows when to switch and throw out that emergency heal when needed? They can move out of that AOE they're standing in without you having to waste time trying to turn auto attack on and off? Honestly, this is the main reason I don't need for companions over player. I'm fully aware that I wouldn't be running the content I'm running at the time if not for the other 3 players and it makes me feel decent to pass and say "grats man". That's not a ad hominem attack, It's just my personal opinions and belief structure. That's perfectly fine. You pays your sub, you plays how you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darne Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Don't you have different sets of gear that you use for different purposes? I may be a unique case along with the sniper, but all 3 trees for the marauder is DPS, so no. I have 1 gear set and after trying all 3 trees, I've settled into one. But you're again bringing up the argument of main spec vs alt spec now. Is my companion just an alt spec of me then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) So, the companion can tell the difference in the tank's HP and the DPS? It knows when to switch and throw out that emergency heal when needed? They can move out of that AOE they're standing in without you having to waste time trying to turn auto attack on and off? Honestly, this is the main reason I don't need for companions over player. I'm fully aware that I wouldn't be running the content I'm running at the time if not for the other 3 players and it makes me feel decent to pass and say "grats man". That's not a ad hominem attack, It's just my personal opinions and belief structure. Prediction time BW will make a revamped system where it's only possible to roll need on gear suited for your current class and spec and all the selfish ppl will cry on the forum Edited February 22, 2012 by Meluna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Off topic, but I am apparently missing one heroic quest there. Theres the one with the 3 terminals that you deactivate, and the one where you kill the Jedi thats guarding the cells that I know, where is the other one?I'm republic, so can't help you much. There are 2 heroic 4s, and a heroic 2; the 4s give you an armoring (purple 49) and a companion weapon; the 2 gives you a mod. The heroic 2 on illum gives an enhancement. Edited February 22, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I may be a unique case along with the sniper, but all 3 trees for the marauder is DPS, so no. I have 1 gear set and after trying all 3 trees, I've settled into one. But you're again bringing up the argument of main spec vs alt spec now. Is my companion just an alt spec of me then? Your companion is what you make it to be. Not what anyone else makes it out to be. And that is why it is such a dynamic part of the game. Heck, you can even have relationships with your companion. If I don't gear my missus every now and then, she stops with the heals.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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