Shadow Infiltration struggling to break 300k

[MrWinkle]

I'm currently valor rank 55 with a mixture of centurion and champion gear (about half/half). I solo and group queue for WZ's and generally if the team as a whole does well my total damage sits somewhere between 200-250k. I'm still seeking the illusive 300k damage medal and wonder if other infiltration specced shadows see this medal often?

 

I realise winning a WZ isn't just about max damage and i certainly try and use all my abilities to aid my team (taunts, interrupts, stealth, etc) but as a DD specced character i would like to see those upper damage medals.

[Veimi]

I'm mostly decked in champion gear with 1-2 centurion pieces. I've managed to break 300k a couple times. So it is not very common indeed, because shadow is really squishy, has no mentionable aoe and is very bad in mass fight. I don't mind really since I can usually get extra 2-3 medals from protection.

[Mackenzae]

as a combat shadow i see the 300k pretty often mostly because of survivablity.

[MrWinkle]

Yeah its not so much the medal i'm after more just the goal of achieving it.

 

I guess the balance between survivability and burst is necessary.

[MrWinkle]

as a combat shadow i see the 300k pretty often mostly because of survivablity.

 

Combat shadow? Do you mean Kinetic?

 

I'm considering trying the 31/0/10 spec to see how the increase in survivability stacks up against the drop in burst.

[mothermonterr]

Infiltration is only good in good gear, it is a very gear dependent spec. If you still have centurion pieces, do not go infiltration, you're better off with more sustain in hybrid or full kinetic.

[KoruptData]

As an infiltration shadow (Shadow tech) I have hit 300k (360k being the highest) and handful of times. That's not the stat that you should be proud of though. The stat you should be proud of is your Killing Blows/Kills ratio. If I have 40 kills and half of them were done by me, that's what I'm proud of. I don't think we will get Killing Blow medals until 1.2 though.

[KilmarFyrewynd]

Full Champ/Rakata with the exception of gloves. I've hit 300K a (very) few times but have come close many times (260K-298K) The one problem is that I do not buy adrenals as I don't want to waste WZ comms because I am working on the last piece.

 

I just switched from Synth to Biochem and leveling it up to 400. Once I do so, I hope to hit 300K much more often with the reusable stims and medpaks.

[Mackenzae]

Here is what is possible as Kinetic Combat -

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/WolfTear359/Screenshot_2012-02-18_21_49_38_793374.jpg

 

 

I don't always break 400k but 300k is pretty much a gimme every game.

 

Here is a 2nd screenie to show its not a 1 time thing -

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/WolfTear359/Screenshot_2012-02-20_17_50_12_454077.jpg

Edited February 21, 2012 by Mackenzae

[Mackenzae]

Combat shadow? Do you mean Kinetic?

 

I'm considering trying the 31/0/10 spec to see how the increase in survivability stacks up against the drop in burst.

 

Yes Kinetic in combat stance.

[shagatha]

Here is what is possible as Kinetic Combat -

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/WolfTear359/Screenshot_2012-02-18_21_49_38_793374.jpg

 

 

I don't always break 400k but 300k is pretty much a gimme every game.

Infiltration damage is mostly single-target damage where as kinetic is having lots of aoe going on. Also it's more uptime with being tough to take down. I wouldn't compare these two.

 

It's also off-topic.

Edited February 21, 2012 by shagatha

[MonkeylordX]

I rarely break 300K damage as a kinetic spec with full champ gear. Usually only in void star door defending or Civil War point defending the entire game.

 

Generally I am busy controlling healers, defending points, or chaining people down with a teammate which cuts down on our individual damage but kills him faster. Most games I can get 8 medals easily though sometimes 11 (1k def, 5k def, 10 def, killing blow, 1v1, 75K damage, 2.5k hit, 10 kills, 25 kills*, 1k defender*, 3k defender*). 300K medal probably 7-8 times in all the WZ's I have done (valor 54).

 

To be honest I laugh as most infiltration (or imp mirror) shadows/assas. I see the light saber spin and know I have a free kill along with an easy 2.5K medal. Pop potency and drop project bombs. Usually in a 1v1 fight from 100% with the infil getting the drop I end with 50% or better HP depending on adrenal usage and relics.

 

For some nice damage boost as kinetic and maybe infil try pairing a power trinket with battle Readiness. I have found this makes project hit like a truck along with spinning strike. As kinetic this also ups your damage/healing ticks with telekinetic throw + harnessed shadows.

[MrWinkle]

I rarely break 300K damage as a kinetic spec with full champ gear. Usually only in void star door defending or Civil War point defending the entire game.

 

Generally I am busy controlling healers, defending points, or chaining people down with a teammate which cuts down on our individual damage but kills him faster. Most games I can get 8 medals easily though sometimes 11 (1k def, 5k def, 10 def, killing blow, 1v1, 75K damage, 2.5k hit, 10 kills, 25 kills*, 1k defender*, 3k defender*). 300K medal probably 7-8 times in all the WZ's I have done (valor 54).

 

To be honest I laugh as most infiltration (or imp mirror) shadows/assas. I see the light saber spin and know I have a free kill along with an easy 2.5K medal. Pop potency and drop project bombs. Usually in a 1v1 fight from 100% with the infil getting the drop I end with 50% or better HP depending on adrenal usage and relics.

 

For some nice damage boost as kinetic and maybe infil try pairing a power trinket with battle Readiness. I have found this makes project hit like a truck along with spinning strike. As kinetic this also ups your damage/healing ticks with telekinetic throw + harnessed shadows.

 

As infil i use readiness with power trinket already, burst is certianly not an issue. But the 300k dmg medal is illusives mainly due to deaths on my part.

 

I guess its just a choice of play-style, burst vs uptime.

 

I do very much enjoy infil but will try out kinetic just to see how it stacks up.

[shagatha]

I do very much enjoy infil but will try out kinetic just to see how it stacks up.

Sadly this is probably the very last thing you do with infiltration for a while.

 

It's hard going back. I know it and want to go back but it's just so in-effective.

[Sparviero]

I tried KC and came back. Sure the stats are impressive from the aoe spammage yet after playing infiltration so long it feels like you are playing with a straight jacket. I'm back to infiltration and happy again.

[Madnutter]

Why does everyone assume kinetic is aoe?

 

I have reached 500k+ a few times, 560k being highest....and i dont have any aoe.

 

I've only ever reached 500k in infiltration spec once and that was a voidstar with very friendly conditions, that of lots of healers on both sides.

 

Kinetic spec has much better sustained damage than infiltration, and yes you can get some very hefty burst with it aswell, not quite as high as infiltration but not far off with a bit of luck on secondary activations/crits etc.

[Mackenzae]

I tried KC and came back. Sure the stats are impressive from the aoe spammage yet after playing infiltration so long it feels like you are playing with a straight jacket. I'm back to infiltration and happy again.

 

 

actually i would probably compare the infiltration spec to a straitjacket than the kinetic spec. Kinetic has much much more to offer in terms of tools/utility/damage and 1v1 playability than infiltration. If one is to go from kinetic to infiltration losing all those tools/options then thats more restricting on playstyle than the reverse as you had mentioned.

[Sogar]

Sadly this is probably the very last thing you do with infiltration for a while.

 

It's hard going back. I know it and want to go back but it's just so in-effective.

 

That's far from the truth.

 

I've gone from kinetic to balance to kinetic to infiltration (and I'll probably go back to balance) (oh and I'm just talking about the specs I used on lvl 50 WZ).

 

The balance/kinetic transition is the hardest one by far mainly because they both share a sustain aproach. While your damage output is better with balance, you really lack burst (the best you can do is a force potency enhanced project followed by FiB), the survivability of kinetic or a spammable melee CC. Being a bully that can't be ignored with high damage phases (blow your CDs before a PA'ed project + harnessed shadowed TT) seems more useful especially since you can tank damage for your team (the only reason balance is OK for me is because we don't have many DoTers and too many guardians).

 

Infiltration on the other hand has by far the best burst damage (and you can't interrupt it like a TT) which makes it always valuable.

 

Edit : I broke 400k on my second WZ as an infi (with full champ gear though). It's all about targetting the weak and getting some support

Seriously though, there aren't many tricks for infiltration and as it has been said that's not something you should worry about.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Sogar

[MachNaRath]

400-500k is no problem - you just need plenty of healing on a stalemate Voidstar.

[Mackenzae]

That's far from the truth.

 

I've gone from kinetic to balance to kinetic to infiltration (and I'll probably go back to balance) (oh and I'm just talking about the specs I used on lvl 50 WZ).

 

The balance/kinetic transition is the hardest one by far mainly because they both share a sustain aproach. While your damage output is better with balance, you really lack burst (the best you can do is a force potency enhanced project followed by FiB), the survivability of kinetic or a spammable melee CC. Being a bully that can't be ignored with high damage phases (blow your CDs before a PA'ed project + harnessed shadowed TT) seems more useful especially since you can tank damage for your team (the only reason balance is OK for me is because we don't have many DoTers and too many guardians).

 

Infiltration on the other hand has by far the best burst damage (and you can't interrupt it like a TT) which makes it always valuable.

 

Edit : I broke 400k on my second WZ as an infi (with full champ gear though). It's all about targetting the weak and getting some support

Seriously though, there aren't many tricks for infiltration and as it has been said that's not something you should worry about.

 

 

Except Kinetic Shadow's TT can't be interrupted.

[Philosomanic]

actually i would probably compare the infiltration spec to a straitjacket than the kinetic spec. Kinetic has much much more to offer in terms of tools/utility/damage and 1v1 playability than infiltration. If one is to go from kinetic to infiltration losing all those tools/options then thats more restricting on playstyle than the reverse as you had mentioned.

 

If you're going to talk about 1v1s, then Infiltration has all of the utility/control. Infiltration shadows have 12s Force Slow on a 6s CD, Low Slash, and +15% run speed. Combine that with the fact that we start the fight within melee range, and an Infiltration Shadow is the hardest melee in the game to escape.

 

Kinetics have lots of utility in group PvP, thanks to Slow Time, but in a 1v1 the only reason you use that skill is for Harnessed Shadows. Force Breach is also great in groups, but 1v1 it's a weak skill with a small debuff. Kinetics can make a huge difference to a group by guarding and debuffing at the right times, but 1v1 their "utility" is merely high defenses and self-heals. They have far less control in a 1v1 than Infiltration.

 

 

 

Kinetic spec has much better sustained damage than infiltration, and yes you can get some very hefty burst with it aswell, not quite as high as infiltration but not far off with a bit of luck on secondary activations/crits etc.

 

Yes, but Infiltration burst is much better. For one thing, a large part of Kinetic's burst relies on CDs (Potency, especially). Without that up, you do much less. Also, Kinetic's burst burns through your force with Project at 39-45 force.

 

Infiltration burst benefits from CDs, but is still high without it. It relies more on setting up a series of procs. Even without Potency and such horrible luck that no attacks crit, Project -> Shadow Breach -> Shadow Strike -> Spinning Strike will take down a large chunk the enemy's health. And force is never an issue for the burst. Popping Blackout right before we start the burst means that we'll have enough force to see it through.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to argue that Infiltration is better than Kinetic, just that they're both great choices. I personally prefer Infiltration, and I'm tired of all the "Kinetic > All" people. They're all valid choices, and what really matters is which build fits your playstyle. I'm willing to take a few more deaths in exchange for being impossible to escape and having more single-target damage and control.

[Mackenzae]

If you're going to talk about 1v1s, then Infiltration has all of the utility/control. Infiltration shadows have 12s Force Slow on a 6s CD, Low Slash, and +15% run speed. Combine that with the fact that we start the fight within melee range, and an Infiltration Shadow is the hardest melee in the game to escape.

 

Kinetics have lots of utility in group PvP, thanks to Slow Time, but in a 1v1 the only reason you use that skill is for Harnessed Shadows. Force Breach is also great in groups, but 1v1 it's a weak skill with a small debuff. Kinetics can make a huge difference to a group by guarding and debuffing at the right times, but 1v1 their "utility" is merely high defenses and self-heals. They have far less control in a 1v1 than Infiltration.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but Infiltration burst is much better. For one thing, a large part of Kinetic's burst relies on CDs (Potency, especially). Without that up, you do much less. Also, Kinetic's burst burns through your force with Project at 39-45 force.

 

Infiltration burst benefits from CDs, but is still high without it. It relies more on setting up a series of procs. Even without Potency and such horrible luck that no attacks crit, Project -> Shadow Breach -> Shadow Strike -> Spinning Strike will take down a large chunk the enemy's health. And force is never an issue for the burst. Popping Blackout right before we start the burst means that we'll have enough force to see it through.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to argue that Infiltration is better than Kinetic, just that they're both great choices. I personally prefer Infiltration, and I'm tired of all the "Kinetic > All" people. They're all valid choices, and what really matters is which build fits your playstyle. I'm willing to take a few more deaths in exchange for being impossible to escape and having more single-target damage and control.

 

kinetic burst is not cooldown dependent, the entire game is gear dependant. I can burst just fine as a kinetic shadow without needing FP. Kinetics actually have just as much control as infiltration spec if not more.. yes we dont have low slash but you can replace with spinning kick. Not to mention the force pull if the target does get away.

 

Your points on infiltration might be valid but everything you mentioned about kinetic makes me think you haven't played the spec long enough to really have good insight.

[Karyia]

I've been Infiltration spec for the entire time on my shadow and I feel your pain on the 300k medal. I've also come very close (full champ gear minus weapon at the moment) a couple of times, but never hit it.

 

The key, as a previous poster said, is how you control the opposing sides healers and your ability to quickly take out an opponent, especially in a group scrum. I don't buy that Inf shadows are useless in a large melee as I don't seem to have any trouble whatsoever in them. If its an Death from Above AoE spam fest, sure your gonna get rocked so get out of the fire, but thats true for all classes.

 

Group encounters in WZs are won or lost in the first 20 seconds. The team that gets the first kill increases their chances of winning the enounter from a numbers and morale standpoint. That is where I tend to find my most satisifing fights. Sneak in with the group, target the healer, blow them up, then do your best to survive to the end. Kinetic Shadows play completely different as they are more hardy and can sustain pressure more consistently than an Inf Shadow. You will get more medals as Kinetic. You will have a longer uptime on targets as Kinetic. You will also be harder to take down as Kinetic. You will not, however, be able to blow up a target on demand. You will not be that good at hit and run tactics.

 

I'm with the other poster who made the comment on the "Kinetic > All" people. I see more and more tank specs in WZ's and it kind of aggrivates me. I feel that too many players are using the spec as a crutch to compensate for lack of skill/gear. I don't want come across as Inf requires more skill, as it doesn't, but it just feels like its looked upon as inferior for no reason other than the perception and low medal count.

[Philosomanic]

First off, about Infiltration AoE. In some cases, in an AoE spamfest, I actually think that Infiltration does better. If we use two talents which I love but many undervalue (Kinetic Field and Situational Awareness), we have a spammable, all-target, full AoE skill at an affordable cost, and we take -30% damage from AoE attacks. If those attacks are all internal/elemental, we probably take less damage than a Kinetic Shadow.

 

If we get specifically targetted, we'll go down fast. But if it's an AoE spamfest I'm often surprised at how much damage I can take. We don't have the (basically) -10% damage debuff like Kinetics (which is really good), but we can still use MMC, and we can put out high AoE damage, especially in short bursts. I love seeing all the numbers pop up when I spam WB in the middle of a melee ^^.

 

 

Your points on infiltration might be valid but everything you mentioned about kinetic makes me think you haven't played the spec long enough to really have good insight.

 

I'll admit it. I've tried it a few times, and although I enjoyed not dying, and being able to guard, it just... didn't feel right. Infiltration is perfectly matched to my personal playstyle, but Kinetic is just too off. I immediately started missing the in-combat run speed, and Low Slash (which has a really low CD), and 12s Force Slow, and Project with a force cost that isn't ridiculous. I probably haven't played it long enough to truly evaluate it, and definitely not long enough to get good at it. I just know that it's not for me.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Zanilos]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QJNgZe1Vtk&context=C3640e80ADOEgsToPDskLvRAgSsEVFxjmAlIDmf9zR

 

My firsst video. Only PvE gear. was testing fraps, 300k was easy. was focused more on my fps. Dont use things til procced. if your gonna die do it in style!

Edited February 22, 2012 by Zanilos