No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[theoffspringlp]

X-Server LFG is a bad solution to an existing problem, it may solve some issues with people who can't find groups but it introduces a lot more problems. It is like saying:"Oh there are not enough jobs in country A, let's make a X-Country LFJ, it only produces other problems.

 

A serious player never has any issues with finding groups and that i am certain of. While levelling you make friends and those friends will serve in the future to form groups. Ofc if you play terrible, ninja things or simply annoy people with your attitude, they will not want to group with you in the future.

I also read a lot about people who want solo to 50, in that case, they will not make any friends and have difficulties finding groups.

In real life you also not make make your way solo, ignore everyone and then use a looking for friends tool.

MMOs are a progress, you have levelling to built up a reputation, to make friends, to form guilds, etc...With looking for groups, you could also just give everyone a lvl 50 char and let them use their tools to find groups, what will that be? Right! A lobby game...like COD, Battlefield...Choose your Class, choose your gamemode, PvP or PvE and wait for other people to join...

 

One major problem with X-Server tools is, that they will indeed take care of the problems some people are having with finding groups but the result will be another one. People will get grouped with people who wouldnt find a group otherwise for serious reasons; bad play; ninjaing; bad language; etc... Then those people will cry on the forums like they did to get a LFG-tool, that the content is too difficult, because they get grouped with bad players and that everyone has a right to do everything etc...The result will be, that the content will get nerfed, everyone will faceroll the content and then we are facing a WoW after TBC status...You want that? I don't want it.

 

And when people start complaining about wanting content nerfed I'll be right there with you saying no way. I haven't seen anyone in this thread complain that the content is too hard. You're assuming that nerfs are a necessary condition of a cross-server lfg, which isn't true. So let's suppose that we have an entirely optional cross server lfg tool and everything else about the game stays the same, how does this effect you at all?

[Eyevan]

Not sure what a "realm" is but if you mean servers then I think it should be implemented.

 

The best way to implement it is by having an option for players to enable or disable the cross-server filter.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Eyevan

[Vlaxitov]

But you were wiping in them... you know, those "dungeons that were challenging enough to wipe many many times in mmos pre x-realm LFD. "

 

On a few yes, but it doesen't mean our groups never figured it out and steamrolled it. Thats the key, thats what makes these games satisfying. They did make both 5 mans and raids easier in TBC, but it was still tolerable and at the end sunwell was pretty fun. The bar had gotten soo low by mid wrath that it was intolerable and that is when I left for good.

 

or maybe... just maybe... you're talkign about dungeons that FAR predate the lfd tool, and the nerfing that you're talking about is part of the systematic design change that blizarrd had put in place more than a year before lfd in order to make the game more accessible to casual players?

 

Theres no question in my mind that blizzard carefully planed and prepped for it. Blizzard is the master of getting people like me to play their games long after they've lost their luster ever since diablo 2.

 

That kind of makes any "lfd made the game easy argument" seem more than a little absurd.

 

The method in which WoW nerfed went right along with their welfare seasons in PvP. When they came out with a new raid, they would nerf the last raid and then reward players with loot from that last raid with the currency earned from 5 man content. Make no mistake though, they still nerfed those raids right along with the currency changes.

 

If you leveled an alt during mid wrath, you would bypass the first tier of raid gear and be awarded the second tier via 5 man dungeons. Again, raids like ulduaar were already nerfed by then but usually only the massively overgeared guilds on my server were running them for hardmode achievements.

 

So.. I really don't know why you're trying to convince me that the content didn't get nerfed due to increased accessibility in WoW when the content was clearly nerfed for the sake of accessibility.

[ferroz]

On a few yes,

Ah, so you were having problems with wrath heroics...

 

The method in which WoW nerfed went right along with their welfare seasons in PvP. When they came out with a new raid, they would nerf the last raid and then reward players with loot from that last raid with the currency earned from 5 man content. Make no mistake though, they still nerfed those raids right along with the currency changes.

So, you're saying that they had a history of nerfing stuff going back several years before lfd... that kind of blows your "lfd makes the game easier" argument to bits. clearly the LFD didn't make it easier and any content nerfs that happened were because blizzard was going to nerf it, not because of lfd... Edited March 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Vlaxitov]

Ah, so you were having problems with wrath heroics...

 

The only heroic in wrath that demanded respect was HoR. If you ever queued up for a dungeon and HoR popped, you would have to wait up to an additional half hour for people to come in, see that its HoR, and leave right away. I think we've already discussed this.

 

So, you're saying that they had a history of nerfing stuff going back several years before lfd... that kind of blows your "lfd makes the game easier" argument to bits. clearly the LFD didn't make it easier and any content nerfs that happened were because blizzard was going to nerf it, not because of lfd...

 

No I'm saying they went welfare with it around the same time they added some of their first LFD tools, likely in preperation of what would come. Clearly they made their game easier to accomidate the LFG systems they implimented and to their credit, they did a good job with it during TBC. They played it way too safe in wrath.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[DarthTHC]

Well no, I didn't have trouble steamrolling heroics.

 

If people got massively overgeared in WoTLK it was because WoW was in full welfare mode by then and they STILL nerfed the content ontop of that.

 

I have a better idea. Let's make the content so hard that only the top 5% of the most elite gamers can complete it. Then let's add in a bunch of menial, labor-intense, time consuming gates to get to that content. Then let's see how well the game does financially.

[DarthTHC]

Because raids reset today and tonight will be 2 of the 4 hours this game actually does entertain me.

 

If you only care about and play for operations, why do you care about cross-server LFG? It won't have any impact on you at all.

[ferroz]

The only heroic in wrath that demanded respect was HoR. If you ever queued up for a dungeon and HoR popped, you would have to wait up to an additional half hour for people to come in, see that its HoR, and leave right away. I think we've already discussed this.

So wait... you are saying that HoR was the one of those "dungeons that were challenging enough to wipe many many times in mmos pre x-realm LFD. "

 

How were you doing HoR pre-lfd?

 

 

No I'm saying they went welfare with it around the same time they added some of their first LFD tools,

No, the pvp welfare epics you referenced were in the game years befroe lfd. They nerfed TBC content to make it more accessible long before lfd.

 

Blizzard had been nerfing the game for years, long before they introduced lfd.

Edited March 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Snoodmaster]

No I'm saying they went welfare with it around the same time they added some of their first LFD tools, likely in preperation of what would come. Clearly they made their game easier to accomidate the LFG systems they implimented and to their credit, they did a good job with it during TBC. They played it way too safe in wrath.

 

The cause and effect actually went the other way around IMO. They created and designed the LFG reward system to support their philosophy of making mid-level and older content obsolete more quickly so that new players can always stay current with the endgame progression raiding.

 

Keep in mind, LFG (as a queue system) didn't exist in TBC. But the design philosophy of having access to endgame gear through heroics and elimination of attunements and gating started then. Especially when you consider the very late TBC additions like Magister's Terrace. They didn't make the game easier to accomodate LFG, they made the game easier in conjunction with implementing LFG in order to allow new players to step into the playing field.

[ferroz]

The cause and effect actually went the other way around IMO. They created and designed the LFG reward system to support their philosophy of making mid-level and older content obsolete more quickly so that new players can always stay current with the endgame progression raiding.

 

Keep in mind, LFG (as a queue system) didn't exist in TBC. But the design philosophy of having access to endgame gear through heroics and elimination of attunements and gating started then. Especially when you consider the very late TBC additions like Magister's Terrace. They didn't make the game easier to accomodate LFG, they made the game easier in conjunction with implementing LFG in order to allow new players to step into the playing field.

indeed. Blizzard had been designing that way for years, and the nerfs that happened during both wrath and cata were in accordance with the design path of making things more accessible that was well underway in TBC. Edited March 13, 2012 by ferroz

[DarthTHC]

X-Server LFG is a bad solution to an existing problem, it may solve some issues with people who can't find groups but it introduces a lot more problems. It is like saying:"Oh there are not enough jobs in country A, let's make a X-Country LFJ, it only produces other problems.

 

A serious player never has any issues with finding groups and that i am certain of. While levelling you make friends and those friends will serve in the future to form groups. Ofc if you play terrible, ninja things or simply annoy people with your attitude, they will not want to group with you in the future.

I also read a lot about people who want solo to 50, in that case, they will not make any friends and have difficulties finding groups.

In real life you also not make make your way solo, ignore everyone and then use a looking for friends tool.

MMOs are a progress, you have levelling to built up a reputation, to make friends, to form guilds, etc...With looking for groups, you could also just give everyone a lvl 50 char and let them use their tools to find groups, what will that be? Right! A lobby game...like COD, Battlefield...Choose your Class, choose your gamemode, PvP or PvE and wait for other people to join...

 

One major problem with X-Server tools is, that they will indeed take care of the problems some people are having with finding groups but the result will be another one. People will get grouped with people who wouldnt find a group otherwise for serious reasons; bad play; ninjaing; bad language; etc... Then those people will cry on the forums like they did to get a LFG-tool, that the content is too difficult, because they get grouped with bad players and that everyone has a right to do everything etc...The result will be, that the content will get nerfed, everyone will faceroll the content and then we are facing a WoW after TBC status...You want that? I don't want it.

 

 

Problem 1 with your thinking. MMOs are designed for casual players, not serious players. Casual players have much less opportunity to do what you suggest but still want to do FPs.

 

Problem 2 with your thinking. In the hundreds, if not thousands, of LFG groups I participated in, in WoW less than 5% had this sort of bad player in them. Probably way less than 5%. Saying we shouldn't get X-Server LFG because a few bads might pop into your precious group is like saying we shouldn't go outside because we might get stung by a bee. It's infrequent at worst. It's easy to deal with (boot the baddie or leave the group and requeue). It's optional (don't use LFG if you're afraid of bees).

Edited March 13, 2012 by DarthTHC

[Slither]

I like the premise of cross server grouping and have used it in another MMO extensively. I have even made a few friends through that system. But I have also had the misfortune of being grouped with players that seem to think they have been totally relieved of any social responsibility to be polite and/or responsible for their actions. Mainly due to the fact that they know they will not have to answer to their "full time" community on their native server.

 

Before cross server grouping, if you acted like that in a group formed through the LFG channel enough times, you would never get an invite again. The minute you typed something into the LFG channel, you would of been flamed by past group members for you attitude/actions. There by, the community enforces proper etiquette.

 

I am on the fence to the idea of cross server grouping in SWOR. Just my two cents

[DarthKhaos]

If you want community, join a guild.

And you will be limiting yourself. I choose not to.

[DarthKhaos]

its pretty simple to understand why a low pop realm gets more benifit from a cross server tool more than a high pop realm does. since your on a low pop realm yourself, it should be obvious. or perhaps your one of the lucky ones that has a few guild mates with you. but in that case your just ignorant to those that are struggling to just make a fp group. this tool will help them, why do you oppose

Why do you keep making these assumptions. I repeat you have no idea what guild I am or am not in just as you had no idea what server I play on hoping to make your case.

 

There is hardly anyone in the guild that character is in that is remotely near my level. For me to play with my guildies I would have to level THAT CHARACTER (the one I'm currently playing the most) faster than I wish to or slow down so others can catch up. Bottom line I play how I want to. I still stand by my stance and all the name calling and derogatory remarks will only lessen your credibility.

[theoffspringlp]

Bottom line I play how I want to.

 

That's exactly what those of us looking for cross-server lfg would like to do to. The existence of cross-server lfg should have no effect on you playing the way you want to play. The only way this becomes more or less mandatory is if they start giving out incentives to run lfg, which is where I believe wow messed up (and even there, you COULD still find a group of people from your server and just sign up for randoms with them, so it's not a very compelling argument). So please explain to me how this would stop you from playing the way you want.

[dondiwayne]

Problem 1 with your thinking. MMOs are designed for casual players, not serious players. Casual players have much less opportunity to do what you suggest but still want to do FPs.

 

With the "serious players" i do not refer to hardcore professional gamers i simply refer to players who play in a mature way, with a certain know-how of their class, without flaming, respect for common loot agrees and all around social abilities.

 

You say "casual" players. I would like to know what you consider a "casual" player, someone who plays 2 hours a day? 2 hours a week? 2 hours a month?

 

I see myself as a casual player, some would not agree, I play around 20 hours a week on average but there are days where i play not at all and days where i play 10 hours.

 

There was and will be content i can't reach due to time matters or skill matters and i do not care about it.

 

I also play football and i do not complain about not being able to go to the world cup and that is what people basically ask, they want to be able to do every content without proper time investment and skill.

 

Problem 2 with your thinking. In the hundreds, if not thousands, of LFG groups I participated in, in WoW less than 5% had this sort of bad player in them. Probably way less than 5%. Saying we shouldn't get X-Server LFG because a few bads might pop into your precious group is like saying we shouldn't go outside because we might get stung by a bee. It's infrequent at worst. It's easy to deal with (boot the baddie or leave the group and requeue). It's optional (don't use LFG if you're afraid of bees).

 

 

First of all that is your experience, not mine and not everyones.

 

I had a lot of bad experiences with LFG and can't agree with you, which is my opinion.

 

I can understand some of the arguments who are pro LFG but i position myself in an anti LFG area. I will tolerate it, if a LFG will get introduced but i try to debate that it will not come to it. All i see is hate on this thread, some people simply need to understand some peoples views. I understand the pro LFGers but i do not agree with them.

 

I personally like to chose whom i group with and with a LFG tool i simply can't.

 

Boot the baddie, yes, so he can requeue and annoy the next group. There are simply things which are unachievable for some people and should be for a reason or do you want a mentally retarded one to exercise neural chirurgy simply because he wants to see the "content"?

 

Saying it is optional is polemic at its best. Once introduced it is not optional anymore, noone will form groups the normal way anymore. While levelling you won't meet people, since everyone uses LFG.

 

 

PS: The only good thing about LFG were the laughters me and my friends had on some of the randoms who got matched to us...people who played so bad it was simply funny to watch them, with completely wrong gemmed and enchanted gear or not gemmed and enchanted at all. I had some good laughs indeed...

[ferroz]

And you will be limiting yourself. I choose not to.

you choose to limit yourself to the server; I choose not to (or, I'd like to and will continue to try and convince BW that they should allow me to). Edited March 14, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

You say "casual" players. I would like to know what you consider a "casual" player, someone who plays 2 hours a day? 2 hours a week? 2 hours a month?

None of those. Casual players are the players who aren't "serious players"

 

they play....

 

 

wait for it...

 

 

wait for it...

 

 

wait for it...

 

 

casually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

All i see is hate on this thread, some people simply need to understand some peoples views.

You could always stop reading some of the anti-cross server posts if you've had your fill of hate...

 

I personally like to chose whom i group with and with a LFG tool i simply can't.

false. I have friends who always choose who they group with in wow; likewise, I would choose the people I grouped with about 50% of the time in wow (I like pugging with random people so I didn't do that all the time). wow has an lfg tool. ergo, it is possible to choose who you group with when using an lfg tool.

 

 

 

Saying it is optional is polemic at its best. Once introduced it is not optional anymore, noone will form groups the normal way anymore.

No, lots of people still form groups in wow without using the lfg tool; my suspicion is that the majority of people do, in fact.

 

 

While levelling you won't meet people, since everyone uses LFG.

I don't see anyone while leveing now...

 

I actually ran into more people while leveing my hunter than I have with my jedi knight, and I started him well after the leveling curve for goblins during cata.

[DarthKhaos]

That's exactly what those of us looking for cross-server lfg would like to do to. The existence of cross-server lfg should have no effect on you playing the way you want to play. The only way this becomes more or less mandatory is if they start giving out incentives to run lfg, which is where I believe wow messed up (and even there, you COULD still find a group of people from your server and just sign up for randoms with them, so it's not a very compelling argument). So please explain to me how this would stop you from playing the way you want.

And I have showed how it will.

 

 

you choose to limit yourself to the server; I choose not to (or, I'd like to and will continue to try and convince BW that they should allow me to).

If you're going to quote me do it in the right context. The person I responded to said if we want community find a guild.

Edited March 14, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Smudgersmith]

The moment BW brings in a LFG system i quit anything pve or i just quit like i did with wow when bliz brought in LFR system.

[ferroz]

If you're going to quote me do it in the right context. The person I responded to said if we want community find a guild.

So, by "right context" you mean not in a way that makes you look like a hypocrite... eh?

 

he told you what to do if you want community; you reject it in favor of what you prefer, pointing out that you think it's silly to limit oneself that way. I, in turn, reject your preference in favor of what I prefer, pointing out that I think it's silly to limit oneself that way.

 

The context seems pretty correct to me.

Edited March 14, 2012 by ferroz

[theoffspringlp]

And I have showed how it will.

 

 

 

I've only been following this thread since about page 11, but I did skim the first 10 pages. It's entirely possible that I missed your reply to this, but most of what I've seen you say can be summed up by "it kills the community". I'm honestly trying to understand your position and that response isn't helpful to conversation. If you want to point me in the direction of where you explained how an optional system prevents you from playing the game the way you are now, I'll happily go back and read it. Otherwise, I think us pro-cross-server lfg people deserve an answer from the anti-cross-server people about how exactly a completely optional system will destroy the community. I don't think many pro cross-server people would object to being able to choose cross-server or single-server, as high pop servers would likely queue among themselves and low pop servers would likely queue cross-server. Seems kinda win-win to me.

[oakamp]

why is this thread still exit?

but low population or server is dying thread doesnt??

 

provide x-server lfg ASAP, BW.

[Nitewolfe]

The moment BW brings in a LFG system i quit anything pve or i just quit like i did with wow when bliz brought in LFR system.

 

The moment BW adds a lfg system i will resub and finally enjoy being level 50!

[DarthKhaos]

So, by "right context" you mean not in a way that makes you look like a hypocrite... eh?

 

he told you what to do if you want community; you reject it in favor of what you prefer, pointing out that you think it's silly to limit oneself that way. I, in turn, reject your preference in favor of what I prefer, pointing out that I think it's silly to limit oneself that way.

 

The context seems pretty correct to me.

This is the last post I'll respond to you ever. You are attempting poorly to twist my words.

 

The community is more than just a guild. If the only people a person interact with or talk to are your guild mates then they are either lying or limiting themselves. To find a guild that fits you you need to meet and interact with players initially. As I've stated before a lot of people make these initial bonds through parting with the person. I don't know Bob here is a good tank just by looking at him regardless of his gear.

 

Players want things like server forums to strengthen the server community and a statement like "If you want community join a guild." is very short sighted and does not reflect what players want or look for in a community.