Kill Traders

[Stasha]

Okay, I'm going there, what's up with KillTrading. Initially I didn't have an issue with it, but now I do. On our server SpaceSlug, there are more emps than repubs. As a result of the KT, all the repubs are now Battlemaster and getting gear. So why are the emps doing it again? We are now getting crushed in PvP because we are not Battlemaster because we didn't cheat! This is a pvp zone not a hippy convention. Some guilds have taken it upon themselves to break up the KT and now folks are complaining about them! Are you serious?

 

Yeah I get it that everyone can play the way they want using their own 14 bucks a month, at least that's the excuse they give. Well those guilds that are breaking it up, its their 14 bucks too. So until BioWare decides to fix this, I support the real pvpers. Not the babies running around complaining they can't cheat because guilds are breaking it up.

 

Here is an example of the whining...from the guild Aeternis Tenebris by Scriveah..this was posted on the front page of their website. It's amazing to me he even tries to defend his position!

 

"It seems in every game there are those who like to tell others how to play and what you need to do. On the friendly level it might be something helpful like tweaking a spec or modifying rotation to help a player become more effective. On the heavy handed negative side there are players who try to enforce the rules as they interpret them without due regard to the fact that we all pay our own subscription fees, and no one player's fifteen dollars is worth more than anothers. Lately there have been instances where players have taken it upon themselves to try to police Illum and prevent kill-trading. Personally, I don't have a problem with trading. If a player wants to spend their time trading deaths with another player go for it. It is not currently listed as an exploit by Bioware and does not seem to violate the EULA in any way. In fact, it could be ruled in the same way Bioware answered a question about dancing and running around warzones without actually trying to accomplish objectives, the player is at their keyboard playing, just not the same as everyone else. Even though the player is chosing not to engage in passing the huttball, or killing enemy players, they are still playing in the match. Now, it does suck when this happens, but technically they are not doing anything wrong. Illum as a PVP zone is FUBAR, Bioware admits that the current design is flawed and continues to address the problem. The funny thing about kill trading is that the players are in fact still engaged in PVP, though more along the lines of a turn based game. Are players fighting players? yes. Are players being killed? Yes. Sounds like PVP, they are just taking turns playing vice acting simultaneously. All of that being said, I encourage our AT members to play as you like. If you enjoy it, then do it. I would ask though that we do not join the players who have decided to be the no-fun police and answer with anything which would bring discredit to the guild. Tools will be tools, and the server knows where the tools are currently kept."

Edited February 21, 2012 by Stasha
Forgot something

[Boissi]

Emps aren't BM because they didn't cheat, huh? So who did the reps kill trade with?

 

Plenty of kill trading going on in my server as well, but the imps have the advantage there, because we get more valor per kill.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Boissi

[Kesrik]

Why does it matter if people get BM faster? Bad players in full BM gear are still bad players. Edited February 26, 2012 by Paralassa

[Stasha]

Why does it matter if people get BM faster? Bad players in full BM gear are still bad players.

 

That was my thought initially, but now they are getting geared. Didn't see a problem until now, now we are getting crushed. We don't have enough dps to kill them. They just walk around unstoppable. BioWare is killing the pvp with not taking a stand on this.

[Kesrik]

That was my thought initially, but now they are getting geared. Didn't see a problem until now, now we are getting crushed. We don't have enough dps to kill them. They just walk around unstoppable. BioWare is killing the pvp with not taking a stand on this.

 

Actually, that just means you are bad. The extra stats on BM gear doesn't allow players with horrible positioning to survive that much longer. Full BM healers that like to run out into the open still get switched to and globaled by any competent premade.

[Xenon-se]

It take you less than 1½ week after you reach 50 to get full epics, with no rng (mix of champion and centurion).

 

A team of skilled and co-ordinated players have a very very big chance of winning against an un-coordinated team, even if the opponents have slightly better gear (difference is something like item rating 140 on bm gear vs item rating 136 on champion).

 

You and your team need to look what the other team do (do they focus down your healers with an assist train and sentinel healing debuff while you guys get caught trying to kill that juggernaut that is up in your face and just love it when he can hit multiple targets with his smash. do they have people running infront of the ball carrier so the ball carrier have someone to pass while you run behind your ballcarrier attacking... whatever) and try to learn from that.

 

In short. Don't blame (insert-things-like-opponents-have-better-equipment). This is mostly a L2P issue. You and your team need to become better team players. Gear have nothing (or very little) to do with it as long as you can't play as a team.

[Stasha]

Actually, that just means you are bad. The extra stats on BM gear doesn't allow players with horrible positioning to survive that much longer. Full BM healers that like to run out into the open still get switched to and globaled by any competent premade.

 

While again initially I agreed with you. The title didn't do anything until you add the gear. Now they are getting gear. One or two pieces, no biggy. Fully geared, yeah it's a problem. Whether I'm bad or not isn't really the issue, although I by no means claim to be a great player. And yes we can kill them eventually when organized in a premade. If I'm pugging it, forget about it. Yeah I hear ya! Don't pug! They generally are poorer players as well, only because they haven't practiced.

[Stasha]

It take you less than 1½ week after you reach 50 to get full epics, with no rng (mix of champion and centurion).

 

A team of skilled and co-ordinated players have a very very big chance of winning against an un-coordinated team, even if the opponents have slightly better gear (difference is something like item rating 140 on bm gear vs item rating 136 on champion).

 

You and your team need to look what the other team do (do they focus down your healers with an assist train and sentinel healing debuff while you guys get caught trying to kill that juggernaut that is up in your face and just love it when he can hit multiple targets with his smash. do they have people running infront of the ball carrier so the ball carrier have someone to pass while you run behind your ballcarrier attacking... whatever) and try to learn from that.

 

In short. Don't blame (insert-things-like-opponents-have-better-equipment). This is mostly a L2P issue. You and your team need to become better team players. Gear have nothing (or very little) to do with it as long as you can't play as a team.

 

We do honestly pretty well in illum, our 8 man has taken out 20 or so fairly quickly, it's when we are in war zones alone that it becomes an issue. We are an adult guild and not as intense into gaming as some, although many of us wish we still could! So I hear what your saying work as a team and you should be good. I, unfortunately, can't always do that. I don't know, Kill Trading just seems dirty to me. Lol. Maybe I'm setting myself up there!

[Nakazia]

Kill trading is lame. Why there is such a boost to Valor for killing one player in Ilum is beyond me, 120 Valor really? Bad design and bad players taking advantage of it.

 

I refuse to go to Ilum for anything other than daily quests on the PvE side, I will not kill trade, I will not nascar. Both are not fun and involve no skill or real PvP for that matter.

 

I will slowly make my way to BM without using the broken feature that is world PvP.

 

Btw: The actual BM gear is just marginally better than Champion gear... that thought is comforting to me at the very least while getting my Valor ranks up. If there was a huge difference I'd have my feathers ruffled up quite a bit more.

[punkniner]

While again initially I agreed with you. The title didn't do anything until you add the gear. Now they are getting gear. One or two pieces, no biggy. Fully geared, yeah it's a problem. Whether I'm bad or not isn't really the issue, although I by no means claim to be a great player. And yes we can kill them eventually when organized in a premade. If I'm pugging it, forget about it. Yeah I hear ya! Don't pug! They generally are poorer players as well, only because they haven't practiced.

 

 

The difference between Champion and BM gear is so small, you shouldn't even notice it. A good player in Champ gear should ALWAYS stomp a bad player in BM.

 

I do agree with the assessment that the kill trading needs to stop however. It is not the intended use of the Ilum pvp zone, and should be classified as an exploit (and in cases where abused to the extreme, people should be banned. All users should be penalized). The era of ignoring faults in the game, and not penalizing people who take advantage of said faults to get ranks, gear, etc, should be closed soon.

 

As an aside, I have been told that using /stuck to warp back to where you died is 100% an exploit, and anyone using it will be dealt with in one way or another. I know a lot of kill traders use this as part of their system, so maybe in a round-about way they will get themselves in trouble for trading. We can only hope Bioware finally puts their foot down.

[Talcyndl]

I got yelled at for daring to kill Imperials during the run up to a kill trading session yesterday. And then one of the organizers told me he would never heal me again in WZ's if I didn't stop trying to take over control points during the Imperial "turn."

 

 

The annoying thing about the whole affair was that we had good groups on both sides and could have had some great, real PVP if they weren't all engaging in their little circle j#rk.

[Gwal]

Actually, that just means you are bad. The extra stats on BM gear doesn't allow players with horrible positioning to survive that much longer. Full BM healers that like to run out into the open still get switched to and globaled by any competent premade.

 

You're quite simply incorrect. I'm full a champ DPS class and ungeared 50s can't scratch me, I can 3 v 1 guys without pvp gear, battlemasters just wade through new 50s like they are flys on a windshield.

[Crazysithslayer]

They should mass ban anyone participating in kill trading. The amount of players that leave this game because kill trading is tolerated is much larger than the kill traders. You have to remove the cancer before it kills the game.

[ZEROUMUS]

Okay, I'm going there, what's up with KillTrading. Initially I didn't have an issue with it, but now I do. On our server SpaceSlug, there are more emps than repubs. As a result of the KT, all the repubs are now Battlemaster and getting gear. So why are the emps doing it again? We are now getting crushed in PvP because we are not Battlemaster because we didn't cheat! This is a pvp zone not a hippy convention. Some guilds have taken it upon themselves to break up the KT and now folks are complaining about them! Are you serious?

 

Yeah I get it that everyone can play the way they want using their own 14 bucks a month, at least that's the excuse they give. Well those guilds that are breaking it up, its their 14 bucks too. So until BioWare decides to fix this, I support the real pvpers. Not the babies running around complaining they can't cheat because guilds are breaking it up.

 

Here is an example of the whining...from the guild Aeternis Tenebris by Scriveah..this was posted on the front page of their website. It's amazing to me he even tries to defend his position!

 

"It seems in every game there are those who like to tell others how to play and what you need to do. On the friendly level it might be something helpful like tweaking a spec or modifying rotation to help a player become more effective. On the heavy handed negative side there are players who try to enforce the rules as they interpret them without due regard to the fact that we all pay our own subscription fees, and no one player's fifteen dollars is worth more than anothers. Lately there have been instances where players have taken it upon themselves to try to police Illum and prevent kill-trading. Personally, I don't have a problem with trading. If a player wants to spend their time trading deaths with another player go for it. It is not currently listed as an exploit by Bioware and does not seem to violate the EULA in any way. In fact, it could be ruled in the same way Bioware answered a question about dancing and running around warzones without actually trying to accomplish objectives, the player is at their keyboard playing, just not the same as everyone else. Even though the player is chosing not to engage in passing the huttball, or killing enemy players, they are still playing in the match. Now, it does suck when this happens, but technically they are not doing anything wrong. Illum as a PVP zone is FUBAR, Bioware admits that the current design is flawed and continues to address the problem. The funny thing about kill trading is that the players are in fact still engaged in PVP, though more along the lines of a turn based game. Are players fighting players? yes. Are players being killed? Yes. Sounds like PVP, they are just taking turns playing vice acting simultaneously. All of that being said, I encourage our AT members to play as you like. If you enjoy it, then do it. I would ask though that we do not join the players who have decided to be the no-fun police and answer with anything which would bring discredit to the guild. Tools will be tools, and the server knows where the tools are currently kept."

 

 

as someone who organizes or participates in some of the KT parties on spaceslug, let me state clearly, yes it is lame. the thing you got to understand is as republic, if we don't do this we have a real hard time progressing. Sure we can form a group and hold the centre from time to time, but when "real" pvp breaks out, the imps will always outnumber us.

 

if KT groups upset you on the empire side, give clan nemisis a call, they love busting up KT parties. personally i dont mind, they are trying to get something going. good on them. If they succeed on shutting KT down, it will suck for the repub side until the faction imbalance is corrected by bioware

 

 

as for getting battle master. the imps still progress faster in KT parties, they still get battle master faster, they get more valor. simply because they have more people at the typical KT party. Hell, I just got battle master yesterday.

Edited February 20, 2012 by ZEROUMUS

[Talcyndl]

as someone who organizes or participates in some of the KT parties on spaceslug, let me state clearly, yes it is lame. the thing you got to understand is as republic, if we don't do this we have a real hard time progressing. Sure we can form a group and hold the centre from time to time, but when "real" pvp breaks out, the imps will always outnumber us.

 

if KT groups upset you on the empire side, give clan nemisis a call, they love busting up KT parties. personally i dont mind, they are trying to get something going. good on them. If they succeed on shutting KT down, it will suck for the repub side until the faction imbalance is corrected by bioware

 

 

as for getting battle master. the imps still progress faster in KT parties, they still get battle master faster, they get more valor. simply because they have more people at the typical KT party. Hell, I just got battle master yesterday.

 

Than work for progression in WZ's. Just because it's hard, doesn't justify (in your words) lame strategies. Especially ones that do nothing to help with the more important aspect - how to play your character. You will be a MUCH BETTER PVP player with practice in open world PVP than if you simply trade your way to valor and gear.

[Nakazia]

They should mass ban anyone participating in kill trading. The amount of players that leave this game because kill trading is tolerated is much larger than the kill traders. You have to remove the cancer before it kills the game.

 

I agree, and when the changes were made I didn't participate not only because I thought it was cheezy, but because I thought Valor gained that way may still be rolled back (lulz on me).

 

I look at Battle Masters and a large majority got it through advertised "EZ Mode PvP Ilum daily/weekly /join ****" my stomach churns slightly when I see it in general on the fleet now.

 

The cancer that is, players exploiting, hacking, and flat out bad design by Bioware has influenced PvP in a very bad way right off the bat.

 

Ban the bads, so the goods can enjoy your game and don't unsub.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Nakazia

[ZEROUMUS]

i think more people would leave if kill trading was not possible in the games current state. we would have nothing to do. republic would be dead. all we could do with join empire and play hut-ball, and compete with 50 guys over illum boxs. That is what will happen if Illum pushes the republic out completely. Edited February 20, 2012 by ZEROUMUS

[Nakazia]

i think more people would leave if kill trading was not possible in the games current state. we would have nothing to do. republic would be dead. all we could do with join empire and play hut-ball, and compete with 50 guys over illum boxs

 

I think alot have already left due to the joke of a Valor system.

 

I do feel bad that the only real way Pubs can do anything in Ilum is kill trading. Still it's a flawed system, that's rewarding people who aren't PvPing.

 

I'd reroll but.... man the pub gear just looks awful, that and I don't wanna throw rocks at people.

[ZEROUMUS]

Bioware needs to give the factions a reason to hate each other, otherwise people are just gonna co-op it if it works better. At the very least, the imbalance needs to be fixed.

 

the days of making an mmo with meaningless factions are over.

Edited February 20, 2012 by ZEROUMUS

[Yescek]

Bioware needs to give the factions a reason to hate each other, otherwise people are just gonna co-op it if it works better. At the very least, the imbalance needs to be fixed.

 

the days of making an mmo with meaningless factions are over.

 

Idk about you, but I hate the Republic on general principle. Plus it doesn't help that most of them are **Edited for heavily explicit content**.

 

But I refuse to piss in their soup, BECAUSE of the fact that they're all **Edited for heavily explicit content**. It kills PvP. But I digress, cowards will be cowards.

[Kesrik]

You're quite simply incorrect. I'm full a champ DPS class and ungeared 50s can't scratch me, I can 3 v 1 guys without pvp gear, battlemasters just wade through new 50s like they are flys on a windshield.

 

I probably could have phrased what I said in my first post a little bit better. I meant that there are things that you can improve regarding your play rather than just blaming it on gear. However, I am assuming that you have full PvP gear (be it centurion or champion) while fighting against people in Full BM gear. Gear progression will never stagnate, and yes, you will probably lost 1v1 to someone with better gear if your skill is the same. However, there are certain things you can do to set yourself up for success. Never Iv1 someone if you think they have better gear, just bring a friend with you!

 

As an example, we have a Sniper who rerolled a Gunslinger to join our guild. His gear is still pretty bad (mix of cent and champ gear, but mostly cent). What we do is make sure we always have a melee near him. Assassins and Operatives that open on him are instantly stunned/taunted. Ranged DPS that try to go toe to toe with him are constantly interrupted and harassed. PvP by definition will be imbalanced. It is up to your team to create these imbalances.

 

Moral of the story: always run with a premade. Two champion geared players working together will ALWAYS beat two Battlemasters doing their own thing.

[ZEROUMUS]

what i think this is really about is the fact that the imps really liked being the only faction where everyone had BM gear. now we are leveling the play field a little and now they are getting beaten a little.

[Rockstar]

Idk about you, but I hate the Republic on general principle. Plus it doesn't help that most of them are **Edited for heavily explicit content**.

 

But I refuse to piss in their soup, BECAUSE of the fact that they're all **Edited for heavily explicit content**. It kills PvP. But I digress, cowards will be cowards.

 

Funny, because that's exactly how I feel about Sith, who usually roll up anywhere from 2:1 to 5:1 ratio, and if it isn't that outnumbered in their favor, they run until they get their zerg group.

 

Say what you will about republic, but on my server it is impossible for us to resort to any of that nonsense.

[DarthScottsman]

>Grey Fox<

 

 

U. Mad bro......

[Broom]

I loved how some people on our side were yelling 'you're KOS now, you'll see, we're just going to let them kill you' when we started breaking up their KT parties on Vornskr. Oh my, KOS in a PVP zone... whatever shall I do... /rollseyes