ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Greetings and salutations, SWTOR Community! Until the implementation of character transfers, which I feel would help players move to more desirable servers (I'm stuck on the Jekk'Jekk Tar server), I feel that this is just one idea on how to fix the server imbalance. It punishes based on either population (easily exploitable) or warzone win percentage (many decry it unfair) and a sinking feeling leads me to believe the latter could be exploitable by enough selfish losers looking for an advantage. However, for a more enjoyable PvP experience for players on the Republic, I feel this is a solid, if very temporary, proposition. Due to the amount of issues with an attempt with population control, the best way for this idea to work is through win percentages of both factions, which tends to improve for factions more heavily populated. The proposition is this: Expertise rating and 1-49 stat boosts for that tier are hit based on which faction recieved the most disportionate amount of wins in warzones. If the pecentages are close, like say 55-45%, the nerf is disabled. While many decry forced choices, I feel this is one of the best ways to fix it. As stated in the title, until character transfers become implemented, this idea is classified under the category of "medicine people need to take". Other ways include introducing a Wookie race to the Republic, nerfing the Sorceror and Bounty Hunter, etc. After the character transfers, there will be no need for this and should be relatively simple to disable entirely. Thoughts on suggestions, improvements, honest criticism, suggestions for fixing the imbalance (do feel free to contribute) and discussion are welcome. Flaming, lack of civility, and fail trolling will be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes or give an i win button to all rebs... Just merge the low pop servers and be done with it no need to mess up pvp because someone can´t win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupieFoxtail Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Just merge the low pop servers and be done with it no need to mess up pvp because someone can´t win. No I'm not sure if you've ever been on a server that's been merged, but it's not a fun situation. Edited February 20, 2012 by CupieFoxtail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes or give an i win button to all rebs... Just merge the low pop servers and be done with it no need to mess up pvp because someone can´t win. PvP is already incredibly messed up as it is, with teams entirely comprised of Bounty Hunters and Sorcerors is hard to win as a Republic character or lose as an Empire character. As someone who plays a Jedi Shadow and a Sith Juggernaut equally, I prefer a healthy metagame. Also, do explain why most of the games most ardent PvP players roll Empire. When one side wins 16 games out of 20, there's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes or give an i win button to all rebs... Just merge the low pop servers and be done with it no need to mess up pvp because someone can´t win. Explain to me how merging servers fixes anything. If there are 3 times more imps on server A and B there will still be 3 times more imps on the new merged server. Merging servers will just overload an already very fragile Ilum that can't handled tons of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINALBOSS Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 WTB Faction Transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 WTB Faction Transfer. For me, it's a WTB Character Transfer. Faction Transfers with Sith going Jedi and Jedi going Sith would be fun and dynamic though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Greetings and salutations, SWTOR Community! Until the implementation of character transfers, which I feel would help players move to more desirable servers (I'm stuck on the Jekk'Jekk Tar server), I feel that this is just one idea on how to fix the server imbalance. It punishes based on either population (easily exploitable) or warzone win percentage (many decry it unfair) and a sinking feeling leads me to believe the latter could be exploitable by enough selfish losers looking for an advantage. However, for a more enjoyable PvP experience for players on the Republic, I feel this is a solid, if very temporary, proposition. Due to the amount of issues with an attempt with population control, the best way for this idea to work is through win percentages of both factions, which tends to improve for factions more heavily populated. The proposition is this: Expertise rating and 1-49 stat boosts for that tier are hit based on which faction recieved the most disportionate amount of wins in warzones. If the pecentages are close, like say 55-45%, the nerf is disabled. While many decry forced choices, I feel this is one of the best ways to fix it. As stated in the title, until character transfers become implemented, this idea is classified under the category of "medicine people need to take". Other ways include introducing a Wookie race to the Republic, nerfing the Sorceror and Bounty Hunter, etc. After the character transfers, there will be no need for this and should be relatively simple to disable entirely. Thoughts on suggestions, improvements, honest criticism, suggestions for fixing the imbalance (do feel free to contribute) and discussion are welcome. Flaming, lack of civility, and fail trolling will be ignored. Explain to me again this. If Reps are loosing BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD they should have buff so they can win ? *** ? Do you know what you are asking. ALL WARZONES are 8 VS 8 so how the hell imbalance hit you there ? There is perfect balance. 8 vs 8. Ilum is other pair of shoes but WZ ? What you are asking is "allow noobs win because they are loosing". Don't know if you are trolling or... Learn to play. That should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 PvP is already incredibly messed up as it is, with teams entirely comprised of Bounty Hunters and Sorcerors is hard to win as a Republic character or lose as an Empire character. As someone who plays a Jedi Shadow and a Sith Juggernaut equally, I prefer a healthy metagame. Also, do explain why most of the games most ardent PvP players roll Empire. When one side wins 16 games out of 20, there's a problem. How is pvp messed up ? Should i be crying about Commandoes and sages which litter the reb side they are mirrors to the BH and sorc AC´s you know ? There are things you can do to improve your odds in pvp roll a premade unable to do that well maybe you just suck at making friends. Work on your gear before going to wz´s in a few days you can up your hps from 12k to 15-16k and damage out put 15-20% with out full pvp gear. It´s about what you want to play want to be a sadistic sith or flowerhugging jedi. I play on imp side because my guild wanted to be siths and i didn´t mind one way or the other and i think it´s mainly because of WOW mentality that people roll imps thinking they´d have better racials and horde used to win bgs ... which are rubbish points in swtor. And you think having 3times the players than rebs makes us better we also get 3 times the bad players the whiners and idiots who can´t comprehend how to compete in pvp. You know capping turrets instead of going for the killing blow or sneaking to an unguarded door or passing the ball. The problem with other side winning more than you is plainly because your team is worse at doing the right things doors turrets and goals...Can´t stand the bad team wait for 5mins before requeing after a lost match maybe you roll with a different team... On my server we tend to have a good chance in winning huttball against rebs about 50/50 in VS and 70% chance of losing Alderaan when solo or queing with a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Explain to me how merging servers fixes anything. If there are 3 times more imps on server A and B there will still be 3 times more imps on the new merged server. Merging servers will just overload an already very fragile Ilum that can't handled tons of people. Well most servers they have barely hit higher than light on rush hours merging 2-3 of those would give you alot more player base from where to get some good teams going on. And allowing the servers to be unbalanced is BW´s doing for not giving any insentive to roll rebs and why should they really... But you think that X-server queing would fix your problems then ?? id´wont fix the ilum unbalance it won´t fix your server being dry on rebs. Only way would be offering some sort of faction change questline since i´m not going to pay for transfering over to reb side and forcing it would just lead to an mass unsubbing. I didn´t mind playing Alliance on a 1/4 imbalanced server in WOW we just made the best out of what we got. I mean history is full of examples where smaller armies have beat bigger ones with cunning and solid tactics (winter war Finland against Russia , Afganistan vs Soviet Russia, Spartans vs Persians etc.) rushing head on to a 3/1 advantage is not gonna end well and while ilum is a big as it is there are room for ambushes and shoke points staying pinned in your fort is just plain idiotic. Although the horrible engine makes any fights bigger that 5v5 just impossible to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Explain to me again this. If Reps are loosing BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD they should have buff so they can win ? *** ? Do you know what you are asking. ALL WARZONES are 8 VS 8 so how the hell imbalance hit you there ? There is perfect balance. 8 vs 8. Ilum is other pair of shoes but WZ ? What you are asking is "allow noobs win because they are loosing". Don't know if you are trolling or... Learn to play. That should help. Ah, yes. The "learn to play" comment. There's an imbalance due to most skilled players joining Empire because they desire an advantage in numbers and abilities, which attracts them. There is also a rather disgusting advantage the Empire classes such as Sorceror has over their counterpart as well as most classes in general. When there is a 3:1 ratio, good players will join the faction with the most people. There are rather solid PvPers on Republic, the problem is very few of them as I have actually talked to people joining Empire to up their win percentage. Explain this to me. Also explain the 3:1 imbalance. Otherwise, you're counter-argument is rather unsubstantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 How is pvp messed up ? Should i be crying about Commandoes and sages which litter the reb side they are mirrors to the BH and sorc AC´s you know ? There are things you can do to improve your odds in pvp roll a premade unable to do that well maybe you just suck at making friends. Work on your gear before going to wz´s in a few days you can up your hps from 12k to 15-16k and damage out put 15-20% with out full pvp gear. It´s about what you want to play want to be a sadistic sith or flowerhugging jedi. I play on imp side because my guild wanted to be siths and i didn´t mind one way or the other and i think it´s mainly because of WOW mentality that people roll imps thinking they´d have better racials and horde used to win bgs ... which are rubbish points in swtor. And you think having 3times the players than rebs makes us better we also get 3 times the bad players the whiners and idiots who can´t comprehend how to compete in pvp. You know capping turrets instead of going for the killing blow or sneaking to an unguarded door or passing the ball. The problem with other side winning more than you is plainly because your team is worse at doing the right things doors turrets and goals...Can´t stand the bad team wait for 5mins before requeing after a lost match maybe you roll with a different team... On my server we tend to have a good chance in winning huttball against rebs about 50/50 in VS and 70% chance of losing Alderaan when solo or queing with a friend. I have a policy against premades as I find them detrimental to the experience, but that's for another time. Thanks for admitting that your side get's the better PvP players and in greater quantities. Your attempt to claim "but we get all the losers!" kind of falls flat. Blatant throwing of the "learn to play" comment shows why I don't usually play MMOs. I hate tooting my own horn here, but I do average about 7-8 medals a warzone mostly from damage reduction and defense as a Shadow. Not significant, but it's the class I have fun playing. I am glad that there is a balance on your server, but on three of the four servers I have characters on Empire outnumbers us significantly. Teams against five or more sorcerors are highly common. Either they fix the classes or they find another way to balance out the factions. Also, littered with Commandos and Sages? Two healing classes? You compared that to the amount of Sorcs and Bounty Hunters on Empire? Considering that there is a massive difference between having a very slight overpopulation of healers and an vast overpopulation of people who can nuke the other classes to oblivion and spam tracer missles, your argument is unsubstantial at best, naive and hopeless at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Finland against Russia You do realise finland lost that war?. Also.. balancing the factions is NOT A BAD THING. please try to play a republic char. being outnumbered 1:5 in ilum makes it a chore. There needs to be a reason for people to roll republic or this game will eventually die out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ah, yes. The "learn to play" comment. There's an imbalance due to most skilled players joining Empire because they desire an advantage in numbers and abilities, which attracts them. There is also a rather disgusting advantage the Empire classes such as Sorceror has over their counterpart as well as most classes in general. When there is a 3:1 ratio, good players will join the faction with the most people. There are rather solid PvPers on Republic, the problem is very few of them as I have actually talked to people joining Empire to up their win percentage. Explain this to me. Also explain the 3:1 imbalance. Otherwise, you're counter-argument is rather unsubstantial. I don't say that there is no imbalance or something. I'm saying that giving advantage to looses so they could win don't do a thing. Let me explain what you will do this way: ~ all good players will remain in Empire because that "fix" can only be temporary ~ they will be pissed off because you will get free win and you don't deserve it ~ Bioware will piss off majority of players ~ loosers will become loosers again when buff will be off ~ no Empire will switch sides because buff is temporary ~ no wins will count for you and you will be laughed by entire community "look, they won again because of buff" ~ playing republic will be lame and noob from the point when they will think about them as "buffed loosers" and every player that join Reps will be laughed at I said it hundreds times. There is just no way to balance game in any other way than making Reps more cool. Look at this: SITH WARRIOR - cool black roobes, hoods and super masks JEDI KNIGHT - lame "medieval like" robe that look pathetic SITH INQUISITOR - unlimited powere!!!! lighting all over the place JEDI CONSULAR - priest like robes, cast blue clouds and throw dirt at enemies BOUNTY HUNTER - heavy armored guy with jetpack firing rockets from the sky TROOPER - white armor and big gun that fire blue clouds IMPERIAL AGENT - everyone are scared of you, you come, you go - you are freaking secret police! You have cool ship and you are like James Bond SMUGGLER - you fly around in old junk and want to pay back some money to big snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 WTB Faction Transfer. I could very wel be reading into it too much the little info they've released about the Legacy system coming in March sounds as though a faction change may be possible through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I don't say that there is no imbalance or something. I'm saying that giving advantage to looses so they could win don't do a thing. Let me explain what you will do this way: ~ all good players will remain in Empire because that "fix" can only be temporary ~ they will be pissed off because you will get free win and you don't deserve it ~ Bioware will piss off majority of players ~ loosers will become loosers again when buff will be off ~ no Empire will switch sides because buff is temporary ~ no wins will count for you and you will be laughed by entire community "look, they won again because of buff" ~ playing republic will be lame and noob from the point when they will think about them as "buffed loosers" and every player that join Reps will be laughed at I said it hundreds times. There is just no way to balance game in any other way than making Reps more cool. Look at this: SITH WARRIOR - cool black roobes, hoods and super masks JEDI KNIGHT - lame "medieval like" robe that look pathetic SITH INQUISITOR - unlimited powere!!!! lighting all over the place JEDI CONSULAR - priest like robes, cast blue clouds and throw dirt at enemies BOUNTY HUNTER - heavy armored guy with jetpack firing rockets from the sky TROOPER - white armor and big gun that fire blue clouds IMPERIAL AGENT - everyone are scared of you, you come, you go - you are freaking secret police! You have cool ship and you are like James Bond SMUGGLER - you fly around in old junk and want to pay back some money to big snail Yes! Giving up is a nice solution! I don't really see why would any republic player play this game anymore if they are on a standard or light populated server... On the heavy ones it's still kind of "ok" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soazak Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes or give an i win button to all rebs... Just merge the low pop servers and be done with it no need to mess up pvp because someone can´t win. Merging servers is a solution to server population, NOT faction imbalance. It has the opposite effect on faction balance. i.e. 2 against 1, becomes 4 against 2, same problem, more Imperials to camp your gates. Since there are no overpopulated Republic servers this idea would not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes! Giving up is a nice solution! I don't really see why would any republic player play this game anymore if they are on a standard or light populated server... On the heavy ones it's still kind of "ok" Not giving up. Read again. Republic in my eyes need redesign. If you show me class that throw lighting, then class that throw dirt and ask what I want to choose... sorry but lighting > dirt all the way. This is ONLY reason why we play as Imps. Faction imbalance is from the launch before people was able to check what side is superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThadasAndarys Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) I don't say that there is no imbalance or something. I'm saying that giving advantage to looses so they could win don't do a thing. Let me explain what you will do this way: ~ all good players will remain in Empire because that "fix" can only be temporary ~ they will be pissed off because you will get free win and you don't deserve it ~ Bioware will piss off majority of players ~ loosers will become loosers again when buff will be off ~ no Empire will switch sides because buff is temporary ~ no wins will count for you and you will be laughed by entire community "look, they won again because of buff" ~ playing republic will be lame and noob from the point when they will think about them as "buffed loosers" and every player that join Reps will be laughed at 1. If they so desire. I find the better way to do it is rebalance the Sorceror and eliminate the tracer missle spam, but Bioware is grandstanding on the issue. 2. If they have the skills, a slight stat nerf shouldn't hurt in, say, Huttball? 3. Bioware is going to piss people off with any change to the game. It's unavoidable. 4. Aware of this. I prefer the existence of character transfers over this by a long shot. 5. Your repeating yourself. 6. Again, repeating yourself. 7. Again, it is merely one idea. I prefer having the option to play Wookies, but that's a pipe dream at best. While server imbalance is inevitable with good vs. evil factions, I've talked to an alarming amount of people who switched or stuck with Empire purely for their classes advantage over the mirror or due to the better PvPers switching to Empire to up their win percentage. Again, when one side wins 80% of the matches, there is a significant problem. I appreciate your criticism, but there is a vast amount of problems when it isn't merely aesthetics as you claim it is. It would help, but the advantages are still there. Other options include adding more level tiers to warzones so groups of 40-49 players don't destroy a bunch of low-leveled randoms, but that requires a hefty patch and a slight rewrite to mechanics, which could lead to problems elsewhere. I'm all ears to suggestions to fixing the issue. I do apologize for the hostile tone earlier, but I have become rather sick of the "learn to play" comment. This doesn't mitigate your criticisms, but I am glad you admit the imbalance. The thing is, it isn't just aesthetics. A fix must be implemented to the classes or character transfers must be added to the game. This is the equivalent of bitter medicine. Also, even if they have a slight stat disadvantage, they should win on skill alone, which kinda mitigates your points. Unless the nerf would be like over six percent, I don't see the undeserved wins complaint as legit. To sum up, I prefer: Playable Wookies (I wish..) Level tiers Character transfers Unfortunately, Bioware isn't listening, though I understand the Wookie issue. Edited February 20, 2012 by ThadasAndarys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 You do realise finland lost that war?. Also.. balancing the factions is NOT A BAD THING. please try to play a republic char. being outnumbered 1:5 in ilum makes it a chore. There needs to be a reason for people to roll republic or this game will eventually die out. Well forced cease fire is far away from loss comparing to all the countries that got totally wiped out by russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Guys, It has come to my attention that you've been trolled. Read the guys posts; he's clearly being facetious. There's no two ways about it. What does this thread prove? That people who play this game take things WAY too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I have a policy against premades as I find them detrimental to the experience, but that's for another time. Thanks for admitting that your side get's the better PvP players and in greater quantities. Your attempt to claim "but we get all the losers!" kind of falls flat. Blatant throwing of the "learn to play" comment shows why I don't usually play MMOs. I hate tooting my own horn here, but I do average about 7-8 medals a warzone mostly from damage reduction and defense as a Shadow. Not significant, but it's the class I have fun playing. I am glad that there is a balance on your server, but on three of the four servers I have characters on Empire outnumbers us significantly. Teams against five or more sorcerors are highly common. Either they fix the classes or they find another way to balance out the factions. Also, littered with Commandos and Sages? Two healing classes? You compared that to the amount of Sorcs and Bounty Hunters on Empire? Considering that there is a massive difference between having a very slight overpopulation of healers and an vast overpopulation of people who can nuke the other classes to oblivion and spam tracer missles, your argument is unsubstantial at best, naive and hopeless at worst. Well that´s just you gimping your own game experience then so stop whining about losing when you solo que you make yourself to be on the mercy of 7 other players... Where did i claim we get more good players i said we just get more players and many are rubbish... And the fact of the matter is that when you dominate other team you get around 3 medals and maybe farm the rest after the match is in the pocket stating that you get so and so many medals in a game just makes your whining about losing so more transparent focus on the objectives. Lol do you even think before writing stuff commando and sage also have dps specs as do mercenaries and sorcs and tbh if you get arsenal mercs(one of BH´s AC dps specs) on any WZ they are so rubbish your shadow should own them. And if you haven´t noticed WZ´s are 8v8 (usually) so both have 8 players the numbers the whole faction doesnt matter... So just think before you post nonsence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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