SWTOR Endgame = Alts?

[windzro]

Of course they won't, but developers can provide other avenues of play that keep people engaged and entertained by the game when the core features haven't caught up.

 

Pazaak is just one example of something that could have provided a-typical interest in the game. A slower leveling curve would have also alleviated the growing pains...

 

 

mini-games are great...I 100% argee with you.. but any kind of mini-game of whatever WONT hold 1.7 million subers for very long.

[Forsbacka]

Pretty much says it all. Is it just me or does this really seem to be true?

 

That is true, there aint any "challenging" endgame, except few bad players like to call Nightmare modes as that. In PvP there aint any endgame. Once you hit 50 you can roll alt like most do or its basically gameover.

[Dezzi]

mini-games are great...I 100% argee with you.. but any kind of mini-game of whatever WONT hold 1.7 million subers for very long.

 

Oh, I definitely agree.

 

Especially shallow mini-games like Dabo in STO. But imagine Pazaak, with the lore already behind it with card trading and the on-the-fly matches between players in cantinas, in the field, on their ships, etc. You could spend your time just looking for the right card to add to your deck!

 

It certainly wouldn't hold all of the people all of the time, but it would provide just another avenue for people tired at endgame to do something.

[Mrs_Murder]

That is true, there aint any "challenging" endgame, except few bad players like to call Nightmare modes as that. In PvP there aint any endgame. Once you hit 50 you can roll alt like most do or its basically gameover.

 

This. And judging by page 1 of general forum, many, many players have come to realise this now. Myself included.

[SimbotFoxtrot]

In PvP there aint any endgame.

 

I don't see how PvP could have an endgame. You kill people, kill more people and oh look over there is more people to kill.

 

You get gear as the seasons progress but in reality PvP is just killing and more killing.

 

What kind of endgame did you think PvP would have? People will keep respawning and you have to go kill them again.

[Forsbacka]

I don't see how PvP could have an endgame. You kill people, kill more people and oh look over there is more people to kill.

 

You get gear as the seasons progress but in reality PvP is just killing and more killing.

 

What kind of endgame did you think PvP would have? People will keep respawning and you have to go kill them again.

 

Well they are adding rated ladder for competetive teams. Thats the endgame, to see who is best.

[Gungan]

Well they are adding rated ladder for competetive teams. Thats the endgame, to see who is best.

 

It's too bad that the PVP is meaningless. Oh the Empire kicks butt.. oh well. Doesn't matter in the long run.

[Darkhosis]

Yuuuuuuuuuuuup!

 

Gotta think of this games roots KOTOR. What did you do in KOTOR? Played through many times. They expect you to play through this game several times as well.

 

So if you aren't into rolling alts then you aren't going to like this game right now. Eventually it will grow with more endgame but it isn't here now. You can roll alts while you wait or unsub and check down the road.

[Dezzi]

Yuuuuuuuuuuuup!

 

Gotta think of this games roots KOTOR. What did you do in KOTOR? Played through many times. They expect you to play through this game several times as well.

 

So if you aren't into rolling alts then you aren't going to like this game right now. Eventually it will grow with more endgame but it isn't here now. You can roll alts while you wait or unsub and check down the road.

 

The difference between KOTOR and TOR is that in KOTOR, your character's choices had meaningful impacts on the direction of the story. In other words, it was perfectly reasonable to assume you would play again to see the other endings.

 

BioWare took that out of their design plan for TOR (I'm assuming because they were afraid their target audience couldn't handle making poor decisions for their characters).

 

How many alts does it take for someone to enjoy this game, I wonder?

Edited February 18, 2012 by Dezzi

[Dyvid]

If you don't like end game, it's put up or shut up time.

 

Here is an End Game Content Wishlist on the Suggestion Forums.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=289170

[JeremyDale]

None of those games had ALL those things in 2 months after launch, sorry. LotrO launched with no housing(book 11 update), no rep system(book 10 update), no skirmish system(Rise of Isengard expansion), no raids(Helegrod was the first content patch, Book 9 update), no legendary weapon system(mines of Moria expansion) and no relic system. So, please use comparable examples, ok?

 

I am using comparable examples...you are just refusing to compare them.

 

When you have to go back in time 5, 10 years to defend your game, there is an obvious problem. You may as well compare this game to a nintendo game from the 80's and say how awesome it is by comparison. That's basically what you are doing.

 

And I've already addressed this stupid argument a zillion times with you people who keep trying to bring up past MMORPGs at Launch to defend this game's lack of endgame content.

 

Back in those days the leveling up process took much longer. There is no way you were max level and tooken out Mordith a month after LOTRO was released unless you almost killed yourself playing it. Players were not level 50 after 1 month of playing - so even if I did abide by your silly standards and think it's reasonble to compare current games to games released 10 years ago it doesn't even stand up on those grounds either.

 

It was a different world back then, and MMORPGs were a lot different - and placed a lot more emphasis and time on the actual leveling up of your character, and took far longer to accomplish on games of the past than the current models. So a need for a more expansive endgame wasn't nearly as important for games to have at or soon after launch back then.

Edited February 18, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Tiam]

Well I'm not going to get caught up in the semantics about what a "themepark" MMORPG is. There is way too many vague debatable terms floating around on this forum.

 

It's endgame is basically a WoW clone - minus the excellent LFG feature.

 

Hehe. What's more is they couldn't even clone it well.

 

I definitely have the same feeling I had with Warhammer..We had over a million people in just 14 days but months later it was a ghost town anywhere you went.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Tiam

[Andryah]

False.

 

I've played 3 other MMORPGs long enough to reach "endgame".

 

Final Fantasy 11, Lord of the Rings Online, and World of Warcraft. All three of these had far more to do after reaching capped level than this game does.

 

Unless you played them from launch, and are comparing in that context, you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

Really, don't play brand new MMOs if you don't know what to do with yourself when you hit level cap. Wait a year until they have similar levels of content to the games you are comparing to.

 

As for OP's question, actually the journey to level cap is all about alts for many of us. Because we know from past experience with other MMOs that the end game is pretty dry and buggy at launch. We take our time, roll along on multiple characters, both factions, even different servers. You know......taking time to explore each planet from multiple angles INSTEAD OF blowing through the planets and racing to level cap and complaining that a brand new MMO does not have enough end game content YET and you are somehow forced to lay alts.

 

It's not rocket science to know going into a new MMO that there will not be enough to do at launch at the proverbial "end-game". Yet people race to level cap and then QQ about it and compare it to their favorite other MMO that has been rolling out end game content for years.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Andryah

[JeremyDale]

Unless you played them from launch, and are comparing in that context, you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

Really, don't play brand new MMOs if you don't know what to do with yourself when you hit level cap. Wait a year until they have similar levels of content to the games you are comparing to.

 

As for OP's question, actually the journey to level cap is all about alts for many of us. Because we know from past experience with other MMOs that the end game is pretty dry and buggy at launch. We take our time, roll along on multiple characters, both factions, even different servers. You know......taking time to explore each planet from multiple angles INSTEAD OF blowing through the planets and racing to level cap and complaining that a brand new MMO does not have enough end game content YET and you are somehow forced to lay alts.

 

It's not rocket science to know going into a new MMO that there will not be enough to do at launch at the proverbial "end-game". Yet people race to level cap and then QQ about it and compare it to their favorite other MMO that has been rolling out end game content for years.

 

I already addressed this argument in my earlier post. You can read it if you like, because no sense in me repeating it. But let's just say I think it's you comparing apples to oranges, not me - by going back nearly a decade to compare current games with MMORPGs of the past. And my earlier post will explain my reasoing on this.

Edited February 18, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Kindara]

False.

 

I've played 3 other MMORPGs long enough to reach "endgame".

 

Final Fantasy 11, Lord of the Rings Online, and World of Warcraft. All three of these had far more to do after reaching capped level than this game does.

 

Final Fantasy 11 had multiple battlefield events you could particpate in, like Besieged, the Crystal Wars ect. They had Moogle Trials and a merit system you could work on to upgrade your weapons and armor as well as your skills. They had Abyssea, Dynamis, Limbus ect... - basically it had tons of group and solo content for players to work on to improve their characters after reaching max level.

 

Lord of the Rings Online had Reputation, Deeds, Skirmishes, Housing, Legendary Weapons, Relics and more available for players to work on after you reach max level. It had a ton of stuff too.

 

Now World of Warcraft I'll admit had a weak endgame, as it was very similiar to SWTOR - but at least it had a very effective LFG tool that made it's group content easy to access at all times of the day for all players. It also had an achivement system which some players enjoyed....though why I don't know lol

 

So compared to other MMORPGs i've played, this gam has a very weak endgame, with almost nothing to do outside of flashpoints and some tedious dailies. It's a very boring game after 50 - especially if not enough of your friends are online to get a group together.

 

Funny how all those games were allowed time if not years to develop those fantastical end games. WoW had literally like 1 raid and nothing else, LOTR? Im not sure it relaly had anything that was actually working right, FF11...seriously?

 

People QQ and QQ and QQ about something most if not all MMOs have very little of when they launch. Atleast SWTOR has some raids, it has some heroics, it has Datacron hunting, and starting with 1.2 the begining of the Legacy System.

 

Its far better than Nothing, Completely broken / Nothing, and completely laughable since you couldn't even choose what server you went onto laughable.

 

As for no max level toons after a month deal...Lies. Beta Testers will always hit max level quickly and guess what they did. Max Level doesn't mean you can't go back and complete the game. FUnny how everyone assumes Oh im Max level I guess there's nothing to do now even tho I skipped over 75% of the content int he process.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Kindara

[Andryah]

But let's just say I think it's you comparing apples to oranges, not me - by going back nearly a decade to compare current games with MMORPGs of the past. And my earlier post will explain my reasoing on this.

 

Nice try, no cigar. You are just digging yourself into your own irrational reference point.

 

No, it's actually you comparing apples to oranges. You want to compare a brand new launch of an MMO with it's predecessors that have years of patches and expansions under their belt.

 

You could make your same specious apples to oranges comparison between virtually any MMO when it launched to any other MMO that preceded it. Duh!

 

New MMOs launch with content. THEN they patch in content over time and release expansions over time to provide users with more end game (AND LEVELING) content to keep them entertained. When you compare their content at launch to what they have in place one, two, three, five years out, it's radcally different. Name one semi-successful MMO that has not followed this exact paradigm. It's the very essence of what an MMO is.

 

What IS DIFFERENT now compared to a decade ago is that one MMO company has trained up an entire generation of cry babies, whiners, and instant gratification addicts and inserted them into the genre, by the millions. They have been fed and encouraged through dumbed down content to race to level cap and then cry/unsub until the next major content update.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Andryah

[JeremyDale]

Nice try, no cigar. You are just digging yourself into your own irrational reference point.

 

No, it's actually you comparing apples to oranges. You want to compare a brand new launch of an MMO with it's predecessors that have years of patches and expansions under their belt.

 

You could make your same specious apples to oranges comparison between virtually any MMO when it launched to any other MMO that preceded it. Duh!

 

New MMOs launch with content. THEN they patch in content over time and release expansions over time to provide users with more end game (AND LEVELING) content to keep them entertained. When you compare their content at launch to what they have in place one, two, three, five years out, it's radcal. Name one semi-successful MMO that has not followed this exact paradigm. It's the very essence of what an MMO is.

 

What IS DIFFERENT now compared to a decade ago is that one MMO company has trained up an entire generation of cry babies, whiners, and instant gratification addicts and inserted them into the genre, by the millions. They have been feed and encouraged through dumbed down content to race to level cap and then cry/unsub until the next major content update.

 

Nah, I read through your post and I saw no counter argument at all. Just a lot of shallow excuse making. My point stands, and it's you comparing apples to oranges, not me

[Andryah]

Nah, I read through your post and I saw no counter argument at all. Just a lot of shallow excuse making. My point stands, and it's you comparing apples to oranges, not me

 

You may have read my post, but you ignored, or failed to comprehend any of it with any level of objectivity at all.

 

Oh, and what was that semi-successful MMO that proves your point and disproves what I said?????? Yeah, thought so.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Andryah

[JeremyDale]

Funny how all those games were allowed time if not years to develop those fantastical end games. WoW had literally like 1 raid and nothing else, LOTR? Im not sure it relaly had anything that was actually working right, FF11...seriously?

 

People QQ and QQ and QQ about something most if not all MMOs have very little of when they launch. Atleast SWTOR has some raids, it has some heroics, it has Datacron hunting, and starting with 1.2 the begining of the Legacy System.

 

Its far better than Nothing, Completely broken / Nothing, and completely laughable since you couldn't even choose what server you went onto laughable.

 

As for no max level toons after a month deal...Lies. Beta Testers will always hit max level quickly and guess what they did. Max Level doesn't mean you can't go back and complete the game. FUnny how everyone assumes Oh im Max level I guess there's nothing to do now even tho I skipped over 75% of the content int he process.

 

Kindara, read my above posts to see my reply to this.

 

I"m not going to repeat myself everytime this excuse-making of trying to compare this MMORPG to games released a decade ago comes up.

 

It's an old excuse I've effectively countered to my satisfaction, and you are free to read my rebuttal above ^^

[JeremyDale]

You may have read my post, but you ignored, or failed to comprehend any of it with any level of objectivity at all.

 

Oh, and what was that semi-successful MMO that proves your point and disproves what I said?????? Yeah, thought so.

 

Nope. I read it, comprehended it, then disagreed with it I will ignore your taunts though ^^

 

Just because I don't agree with you or refuse to engage with you on a irrelevant point doesn't mean I didn't take the time to read your post.

[bosstherapy]

@Jemerydale ....wanna name another game that idk has been out for almost 10 Years your argument is invalid and false those games have seen tons of expansions and content and are about almost a decade old...clearly maybe ur not old enough but WoW had pretty much not a lot of end content this is how new MMo's Work...

 

games been out barely not even 3 months and ur complaining about end content give me a break end content is coming...yea lets compared a 10 year old game to a 3 month game it makes ur points mute...find another 3 month game then compare it to what it has WoW and FF had none of that stuff like that takes time

[Droidist]

My wife asked me what I plan to do once I hit endgame. If all endgame is for solo players is dailies then I will be playing another game.

 

I am personally hoping for scalable flashpoints by the time I hit 50. Content for all!

[JeremyDale]

My wife asked me what I plan to do once I hit endgame. If all endgame is for solo players is dailies then I will be playing another game.

 

I am personally hoping for scalable flashpoints by the time I hit 50. Content for all!

 

Sad thing is Droidist that is all there is to do solo on this game after you hit 50. And when you take into account this game's lack of an effective LFG tool - it just underlines this problem even more.

[JeremyDale]

@Jemerydale ....wanna name another game that idk has been out for almost 10 Years your argument is invalid and false those games have seen tons of expansions and content and are about almost a decade old...clearly maybe ur not old enough but WoW had pretty much not a lot of end content this is how new MMo's Work...

 

games been out barely not even 3 months and ur complaining about end content give me a break end content is coming...yea lets compared a 10 year old game to a 3 month game it makes ur points mute...find another 3 month game then compare it to what it has WoW and FF had none of that stuff like that takes time

 

Boostherapy, I am just pointing out the facts about this game's endgame and how it comapres with other current games on the market I have played. That isn't complaining.

 

I know you want me to compare this game to games released a decade ago, but I don't see the point - as this game isn't competeing with games released 10 years ago. It's irrelevant excuse-making.

 

And if you don't like my opinions simply do not read them, because you making posts complaining about my so-called complaining doesn't make much sense.

 

I'm sorry you don't like the fact I hold this game to current standards and compare it with games in their current form. But you are just going to have to deal with it because that's exactly what I'm going to do, and continue to do.

 

This is just a video game. It's not my best friend, and I don't feel a need to try and make excuses for it to cover up it's flaws, like you and others seem intent on doing.

Edited February 18, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Azzras]

False.

 

I've played 3 other MMORPGs long enough to reach "endgame".

 

Final Fantasy 11, Lord of the Rings Online, and World of Warcraft. All three of these had far more to do after reaching capped level than this game does.

 

Final Fantasy 11 had multiple battlefield events you could particpate in, like Besieged, the Crystal Wars ect. They had Moogle Trials and a merit system you could work on to upgrade your weapons and armor as well as your skills. They had Abyssea, Dynamis, Limbus ect... - basically it had tons of group and solo content for players to work on to improve their characters after reaching max level.

 

Lord of the Rings Online had Reputation, Deeds, Skirmishes, Housing, Legendary Weapons, Relics and more available for players to work on after you reach max level. It had a ton of stuff too.

 

Now World of Warcraft I'll admit had a weak endgame, as it was very similiar to SWTOR - but at least it had a very effective LFG tool that made it's group content easy to access at all times of the day for all players. It also had an achivement system which some players enjoyed....though why I don't know lol

 

So compared to other MMORPGs i've played, this gam has a very weak endgame, with almost nothing to do outside of flashpoints and some tedious dailies. It's a very boring game after 50 - especially if not enough of your friends are online to get a group together.

 

So games that have added content over the course of YEARS have more content than SWTOR?