When do Ops/Scoundrels realize they aren't ranged?

[MagnisLupus]

Yes because apparently saying something and trying to help some one is worse.

 

Funny but I boot people for offering insults in the form of unsolicited advice..... I would rather play with the absolute worst player on the server if they're nice than some know-it-all that wont let a person play their char the way they want to play........ You know the funny thing is, the people who generally do this are trying to shift blame for their own foulups and haven't a clue what they're talking about.

[MCesca]

or maybe just let the guy play how he wants to play especially at level 28 for god sake. sorry my anger isn't directed at you its the pieces of **** who think they should rule over how others are playing.

 

its people like the Original poster who make MMO communities complete and utter crap

 

I'll often ask people how they're spec'd, just so I know what I'm getting into. There's different ways to play most classes, and I find it's always just good to know how the rest of the party plays in order to better serve the whole group.

 

But then you get some people (like the OP, apparently) who think the entire game revolves around them.

Edited February 17, 2012 by MCesca

[sjmc]

My scoundrel doesn't have a melee weapon nor does he have a melee damage tab on his character sheet.

[Matic]

Funny but I boot people for offering insults in the form of unsolicited advice..... I would rather play with the absolute worst player on the server if they're nice than some know-it-all that wont let a person play their char the way they want to play........ You know the funny thing is, the people who generally do this are trying to shift blame for their own foulups and haven't a clue what they're talking about.

 

amen to that i would rather play with my two guildies who have never ever played a MMO before and just pick spec at seemingly random than some "mmo-l33t" player who deems the fight a failure since we didn't kill a mob .5 seconds sooner.

[enrogae]

OP:

 

What give you the right to tell someone how they SHOULD play?

 

You have the right to advise someone on how they might optimize their dps, tanking or healing skills, but you DON'T have the right to tell someone how they should play.

 

If you had done this to me, I would have done two things:

 

1) Put you on ignore.

2) Reported you for Harrassment.

 

 

I don't know when people started thinking that they had a right to not be offended. I agree that the OP is an arse. I would've kicked him for being an arse. But he does have the right to tell anyone anything he wants to tell them, so long as it doesn't break the ToS. That person also has the right to ignore him, and not listen. They also have the right to tell him that he is an arse, and will be further regarded with a dismissive attitude. However, telling someone they suck or aren't playing their class correctly is not harassment unless they do it repeatedly and after being told to cease contact.

 

There is no law anywhere in the Western world that says you have to be "nice".

Edited February 17, 2012 by enrogae

[CecilTellyn]

I can definitely feel the OPs pain about having a rough PUG but there are a few things I have a problem with here:

 

First, not everyone needs to be a min/maxer and most heroics don't require an overly skilled group to finish. Hell, I've finished a 4+ Heroic with a Sentinel player who had no idea what they were doing and was probably 11 years old at most, a Smuggler who had one minor healing ability and didn't know how to use it, myself (Guardian tank), and my companion. It was hard, but we did it.

 

Second, the OP's direct quote (which they actually posted) did sound rude.

 

Once I grouped with someone to do a heroic who insisted on getting their speeder out between every pull. Of course, this mostly just led to them pulling aggro on huge groups of mobs that the team wasn't ready to deal with.

 

Rather than kick him or yell at him, I said "Hey, can you please not get on your speeder in this area? Thank you :)" That seemed to work ok.

 

Off topic Pro-tip: Don't ride speeders in heavily infested heroic areas, please

[Xaearth]

Next week on Springer:

"When do tanks that suck realize why the Ops/Scoundrels do **** for damage in melee?"

 

(Since we're here making assumptions and all...)

[TaintedSquirrel]

What give you the right to tell someone how they SHOULD play?

Should he be playing to maximize his DPS, since he's in a group?

Or should he be playing incorrectly even though it's more "fun"?

Maybe he enjoys doing the most DPS possible, but he doesn't know better? What if that's the case? If that were the problem then I could have made him a happy player by telling him how to improve. God forbid someone give advice in this game. What a horrible human being I must be...

 

What I did, was tell him how the class was meant to be played. He can choose to do whatever he wants. Like I said before, it's about preventing ignorance, not dictating how another person should play the game.

 

We didn't wipe in the heroic since we were both over-leveled, however if we did wipe, he would have to suffer the most blame. When other players start suffering the consequence because of how he CHOOSES to play his class, that's where the problem arises. We can kick him easily but then that leaves an open spot you have to re-fill.

 

Any future responses from people who didn't read the thread, I'll just respond quoting this post.

Edited February 17, 2012 by TaintedSquirrel

[pinkfreudHC]

Maybe he was Lethality-spec. That spec can be played entirely as 10 meter ranged.

[TaintedSquirrel]

Maybe he was Lethality-spec. That spec can be played entirely as 10 meter ranged.

You need sub-10 meters to build TA.

So, no.

[Malastare]

Should he be playing to maximize his DPS, since he's in a group?

 

No. He should be playing a game.

 

Or should he be playing incorrectly even though it's more "fun"?

 

If you chose to play some way that is less fun for you, then you're playing incorrectly. If you are playing a game in some particular way because some the MMO-Elites tell you that you have to, even when that's not the way you want to, then you're playing the game incorrectly.

 

Maybe he enjoys doing the most DPS possible, but he doesn't know better? What if that's the case?

 

Did you have any reason to think that he was a min-maxer who had been duped by someone else into playing the "wrong" way? Did you establish, on grouping, that your play style was abnormal (the vast majority of players aren't min-maxers) and did he express interest?

 

If that were the problem then I could have made him a happy player by telling him how to improve.

 

A fine point.

 

Also: What if he is the sort of person who enjoys condescending comments about how he spends his free time? Then you also would have made him happy.

 

I see the two options as being about as likely.

 

What I did, was tell him how the class was meant to be played.

 

No.

 

You told him how you wanted him to play the class. You are not the authority on how classes are meant to be played. If I want to play an Assassin who focuses on Lightning, then that's fine. If the class wasn't meant to be played that way, then the game wouldn't allow it.

 

Any future responses from people who didn't read the thread, I'll just respond quoting this post.

 

And it's that sort of attitude that really keeps me from sympathizing. As much as I might be able to see both sides, the way you're acting in this thread has made it pretty clear just what sort of player you are. The bad grouping was your fault. If you want to play strict, min-max, play-this-way-and-nothing-else, then you need to advertise that and make sure your group members are okay. If not, then you need to adapt to their play styles.

 

Who knows, maybe experiencing something outside your narrow definitions of acceptable play might even make you a better player.

[pinkfreudHC]

You need sub-10 meters to build TA.

So, no.

 

I believe you can get TA by killing an enemy as well as the melee attacks, right?

[Ravenwhyte]

My scoundrel doesn't have a melee weapon nor does he have a melee damage tab on his character sheet.

 

Your shotgun is a melee weapon.

[wfreeman]

OP, You are more than welcome to help (read: insult) anybody you want. But you can, in no way, shape, or form, get offended when they act defensively towards you when you impose your elitist, min-max play style on them. People play video games for enjoyment, and when you antagonize other people you're being a petty narcissist. In what way should THEIR goal in gaming be to make YOUR experience better at the cost of their own?

 

Rant about elitist snobs concluded.

 

I assumed nothing.

 

He wasn't healing, he never gained UH so I couldn't check for the healing buff and I never saw the 21-second DoT go up, so I can only assume he spent 0 of his skill points.

 

Something about these two statements seems a bit contradictory to me.

[hadoken]

As you say, ignorance is bliss. It's great that people enjoy the game so much that playing a class in a manner contrary to its design doesn't bother them. I don't want them in my groups.

[Yfelsung]

OP, You are more than welcome to help (read: insult) anybody you want. But you can, in no way, shape, or form, get offended when they act defensively towards you when you impose your elitist, min-max play style on them. People play video games for enjoyment, and when you antagonize other people you're being a petty narcissist. In what way should THEIR goal in gaming be to make YOUR experience better at the cost of their own?

 

Rant about elitist snobs concluded.

 

Quick question:

 

If I ran into a Marauder using only 1 LS and wearing Medium +Cunning gear, would I be elitist for telling him he's playing incorrectly?

[wfreeman]

Quick question:

 

If I ran into a Marauder using only 1 LS and wearing Medium +Cunning gear, would I be elitist for telling him he's playing incorrectly?

 

I may have been to loose with the term elitist. My point was that you have every right to tell him your opinion, but you need to accept that they may (and the player you described probably will) react negatively to your comment. As long as you aren't going to be, as the OP phrased it, frustrated, with that go ahead. You may even help them out. Just don't come to the forums whining that someone didn't appreciate what you said.

[TaintedSquirrel]

Something about these two statements seems a bit contradictory to me.

It was sarcasm (the roll eye face).

Sorry it doesn't come across so well on the internet...

 

You told him how you wanted him to play the class. You are not the authority on how classes are meant to be played. If I want to play an Assassin who focuses on Lightning, then that's fine. If the class wasn't meant to be played that way, then the game wouldn't allow it.

I told him how the class was meant to be played to maximize damage. He is a damage dealer:

I told him how to do more damage.

I told him how to do his job better.

 

The Operative is not a rdps class, was never a ranged class, will never be a ranged class, and being ranged will always cause you to do less damage. Scrapper/Conceal is not a ranged spec, Dirty/Lethal is not a ranged spec.

 

This sums up everything I have to say:

What I did, was tell him how the class was meant to be played. He can choose to do whatever he wants. Like I said before, it's about preventing ignorance, not dictating how another person should play the game.

I can't be any CLEARER than what's in that quote.

 

You can try to put words in my mouth but you can't say it was a better idea to let the poor guy play wrong. Like I said a dozen times, would you guys honestly let him walk away without saying anything? Like you're going to let a Scoundrel/Op do cover-based damage for an entire heroic and NOT say something.

 

Sure.

 

Next time I won't say a word and you guys can deal with it when he joins your level 50 groups. That should be interesting for you.

Edited February 17, 2012 by TaintedSquirrel

[wfreeman]

OP, I don't think you did anything wrong by telling the player that he is, in fact, not a ranged class. The problem is that most people don't take criticism well, and you were criticizing them, whether or not you meant to. If you want to try to help people you should, but be prepared for them to tell you to f*ck off.

[Xuniun]

Good for him. I'm glad he told you off for telling him how to play.

 

They can be played as ranged. Maybe he was a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel. Did you ask or did you just assume that was a Scrapper since he wasn't healing?

 

Scoundrels/Operatives still have all the fundamental Smuggler/Agent skills that help them to be ranged.

 

Is it optimal? Of course not, but not everyone gives a flying Force what's optimal.

 

This attitude is the reason PuGs are unplayable.

[Garsenia]

I'm in the minority here when I say this, but I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the OP.

 

I get what folks are saying about how the approach could have been more polite. If you give attitude, expect attitude in return. And I understand how no one can tell you how to play; but I feel a lot of that should go out the window when you're working as a team.

 

I play exactly how I want to when I'm alone - but when I group up with other people I would expect (and welcome) criticism. If I'm doing something questionable, or just plain wrong, I appreciate when someone points it out so I can either explain my reasoning or realize where I can improve. This is because my 'style' of gameplay is no longer affecting only me - but might possibly be having a negative impact on my group. Being uneducated is one thing, but I think it's a selfish attitude to expect everyone else to work harder simply because I don't feel like playing my class as intended.

 

This doesn't mean everybody has to min/max or be supergamers. My tank buddy and I have happily carried terrible players through many flashpoints simply because they're having fun and trying their best - but I would not hesitate to kick out someone that refuses to even consider questions or suggestions from their groupmates.

[TaintedSquirrel]

I get what folks are saying about how the approach could have been more polite. If you give attitude, expect attitude in return. And I understand how no one can tell you how to play; but I feel a lot of that should go out the window when you're working as a team.

If you make it to level 28, which is something like 10 to 12 hours of play, and you take the initiative to join heroic groups, then you should have also taken the initiative to learn your class.

 

If, after all of that, you still believe your Rogue is an Archer, then you get no sympathy from me. If someone is still THAT confused about the game, then they should avoid groups. There's nothing in the ToS about "being polite" as far as I know, so if anyone in this thread wants to give me a lesson in manners, this isn't the time or place.

Edited February 17, 2012 by TaintedSquirrel

[Tamanous]

Did anyone finally decide what build the guy was using?

 

If a healer/lethality hybrid his ta generation would be automatic and he could play effectively at at least 10m and never ever need to melee. Tips would be if he was casting hots or even generating ta with a heal (odd but could do it).

 

Anything outside of 10 m for long though would be rather terrible damage overall.

[TaintedSquirrel]

Did anyone finally decide what build the guy was using?

 

If a healer/lethality hybrid his ta generation would be automatic and he could play effectively at at least 10m and never ever need to melee. Tips would be if he was casting hots or even generating ta with a heal (odd but could do it).

 

Anything outside of 10 m for long though would be rather terrible damage overall.

I don't think that hybrid works at 28.

He wasn't healing, anyway.

[GeoLager]

People got to realize until you get lacerate, you're really only relegated to 3 attacks, one of which is positional. You get shiv, overload shot and backstab.

 

 

So if you make any kind of hybrid build instead of going straight concealment, cover and sniping actually helps a lot in solo leveling at low levels. Explosive probe is pretty much the hardest hitting ability a lowbie operative has and it can only be used from cover.

Edited February 17, 2012 by GeoLager