Zangaboing Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I like the new talent system in Mists of Panderia. Well, its better to have more flexibility instead of the old system that was only a choice between 3 cookie cutter specs (4 in case of druids ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I like the new talent system in Mists of Panderia. *pats on head* here's your Square Block put it on the right hole now.. *It's okay Diana we cut all the holes slightly bigger so no matter what hole he puts it in it will fit and he won't feel stupid. There are no losers here, just the last winner..... That's what the new WoW Talent system is, you want be that kid that can't put the block in the right hole have fun with it. Me I take great offense to it, and it just shows me WoW is catering to dumber players more and more. Edited February 17, 2012 by WarSiren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I like the new talent system in Mists of Panderia. It actually doesn't seem as bad as people are making it out to be. It's not like the previous talent trees offered much in the term of customization and uniqueness, especially in Cataclysm where it was streamlined so much you couldn't even try out a hybrid build (hybrid meaning between two talent trees). Talents offer the illusion of complexity IMO when in fact all they do is streamline and limit gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondiwayne Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Are you a traffic light? First, traffic lights are Red, Orange, Green Second, i like to paint my posts so they stand out and people don't just fly over it. Third, it has a scheme, Orange being somewhat of a mediocre aggressive tone, Red being where i was in rage, green was when i calmed down and created some suggestion and yellow be where i was getting into a slow rage again. And hey if you bother i can even paint every letter different Edited February 17, 2012 by dondiwayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It actually doesn't seem as bad as people are making it out to be. It's not like the previous talent trees offered much in the term of customization and uniqueness, especially in Cataclysm where it was streamlined so much you couldn't even try out a hybrid build (hybrid meaning between two talent trees). Talents offer the illusion of complexity IMO when in fact all they do is streamline and limit gameplay. Yeah Cata, Talent tree's are what caused me to eventually quit I mean you could still try to figure out a best possible build but man it was boring and so streamlined... The MoP ones are worse, and like I previously said insulting to me. They should be to anyone that actually does the math to find the best talents and builds etc etc. I mean they are great for anyone lazy enough to just go look them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, this is what I meant MOP talents offer ACTUAL choice. You might only pick six talents, but those are ACTUAL talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Yeah Cata, Talent tree's are what caused me to eventually quit I mean you could still try to figure out a best possible build but man it was boring and so streamlined... The MoP ones are worse, and like I previously said insulting to me. They should be to anyone that actually does the math to find the best talents and builds etc etc. I mean they are great for anyone lazy enough to just go look them up. There were never anything other than cookie cutter builds you were better off looking on Tankspot for before very long. Sixty berjuberjillion talents, almost all of them completely useless or counter-intuitive, too situational to be valuable compared to this one over here or just plain underwhelming. SWTOR's classes suffer from the same discrepancy; not every talent is particularly valuable, some are must-have's on any serious build in a given tree, yet others are marks of stupidity to take at all compared to other things and so on. Dunno about your experience, but myself and most of my theorycrafting pals looked 'forward' to new class balancing patches with mild to severe senses of dread (almost never excitement) because we'd be back to the drawing board to figure out what they broke this time and by how much. Nobody -has- to theorycraft, but frankly, where there was joy in theorycrafting was more in being able to genuinely help people -and explain to them why it was so- with their builds. Dealing with over 400 talents when less than 200 of them were actually worth taking in any serious build? Keep dreamin'; that was not fun. Edited February 17, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddymoofle Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, this is what I meant MOP talents offer ACTUAL choice. You might only pick six talents, but those are ACTUAL talents. What's funny is that almost all of them are the end-point and class-defining points (20/30/40/50/60/70/80/85) from the old trees. Really, your choice is the exact same thing with a different UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) There were never anything other than cookie cutter builds you were better of looking on Tankspot before very long. Sixty berjuberjillion talents, almost all of them completely useless or counter-intuitive, too situational to be valuable compared to this one over here or just plain underwhelming. SWTOR's classes suffer from the same discrepancy; not every talent is particularly valuable, some are must-have's on any serious build in a given tree, yet others are marks of stupidity to take at all compared to other things and so on. Dunno about your experience, but myself and most of my theorycrafting pals looked 'forward' to new class balancing patches with mild to severe senses of dread (almost never excitement) because we'd be back to the drawing board to figure out what they broke this time and by how much. Nobody -has- to theorycraft, but frankly, where there was joy in theorycrafting was more in being able to genuinely help people -and explain to them why it was so- with their builds. Dealing with over 600 talents when less than 200 of them were actually worth taking in any serious build? Keep dreamin'; that was not fun. I'm not lazy and Most of the time I was running the spec before they were posted. Sadly I was way to thorough on testing and making sure my guides were complete, that by time I went to post them, someone beat me to it. *shrug* I don't need people to figure stuff out for me. I can do it on my own. Plus it's more fun that way. Edited February 17, 2012 by WarSiren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorddakar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 TOR is a really bad game, a terrible one even. I see what you did there. But the game isnt as bad as some people say and its not as great as some people same. Its medicore at best it really needs some love from the fans and from the devs. The fans need to give constructive feedback instead of going bioware sucks blah blah blah. The devs also need to really liten to what the fans say as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSiren Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, this is what I meant MOP talents offer ACTUAL choice. You might only pick six talents, but those are ACTUAL talents. *pats on head* Here's your Square block now put it in the right hole. No losers here just last winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I'm not lazy and Most of the time I was running the spec before they were posted. Sadly I was way to thorough on testing and making sure my guides were complete, that by time I went to post them, someone beat me to it. *shrug* I don't need people to figure stuff out for me. I can do it on my own. Plus it's more fun that way. Definitely agreed. I was never big into the theorycrafting scene, but some pals of mine were pretty involved in the math end of Elitist Jerks back when. Some of them might still be; dunno. Got involved in lots of testing and got pretty good at drumming up the builds that went on to be cookie cutter even in Wrath's bloat trees, but that's still the downfall of the system. There's always gonna be cookie cutter builds and some talents in a given tier will typically be garbage for pretty much any focused interest. I don't really know why Bioware went with -that- model out of all the models the've ever worked with in their own games, let alone of those existant in the industry, but...there it is, pitfalls and all. Wasn't too impressed when I saw that it was so in beta, myself. Wasn't all that great the first four times WoW did it. Edited February 17, 2012 by Uruare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryhavocwar Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 First off, yes, I am enjoying the game. I am taking my time to level and see what the game has to offer. As I have learned in my other two favorite games, it's about the journey, not the level cap. I started with City of Heroes and then moved on to Lord of the Rings Online. Personally, I dislike the Talent Tree and would prefer they adopt something like the Trait system in LOTRO. It works a whole lot better, IMO. The basic arguments I have been seen in this and other threads are the exact same arguments I have been seeing in the COH and LOTRO forums. What it all really comes down to is that *you* are responsible for your own enjoyment. Trying to get others to agree to your point of view is pointless, because everyone feels they are right and everyone else is wrong. I am grateful for this and the other games I have played and I do realize it can be better, I also realize it will be better, the Devs just need time. Just like the Devs in other games needed more time to make better games. But I am not going to get all bitter and hateful because the game doesn't have this or that or the other thing. Because I remember the days when we didn't have all these wonderful things to do. When science fiction and fantasy media were few and far between (and cheesy to boot, but we loved it because it was all we were getting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 *Sniff* *Sniff* Ewww, smells like 4Chan in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 ...but fans need to consider the situation coldly. I love TOR thus far, and I found the launch quite good (I'm also the kind of guy who have over 60 SW books) Now, TOR have to handle the competition. And the competition can't just be dealt with slogans. Allow me to present an example. TOR, uh, very vocal fans, said that the talents for the next expansion ''of that game'' would be ''stupid'', ''for kids'' , ''for pandas lovers'' Those talents got updated recently.... Its garbage. No endgame. One ******** pvp planet. Population balance is garbage. The resolve system is bull. 3 pvp WZ's. Gear capped in 3 months. Nothing to do but daily quests. All for what. At least warhammer and wow had end game that kept people interested in the game for a year, even when they were just as buggy as this game. Overall this game will last another 6 months in its current state. After that you will see 4 maybe 5 total servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swjoeyss Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) ToR does what it needs to for me atm. I'm happy doing 8 man ops and pvpin. I am completely burnt out of WoW and ToR is the best out there for me atm. Other's who haven't played WoW as much as I have may tend to disagree. BioWare needs to improve this game a lot if it wants to succeed in the MMO market which I hope it does considering I'm a huge SW fan. If it doesn't then I may be going else where when another MMO is released or WoW entices me again. But I tend to agree with the OP. Edited February 17, 2012 by swjoeyss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Its garbage. No endgame. One ******** pvp planet. Population balance is garbage. The resolve system is bull. 3 pvp WZ's. Gear capped in 3 months. Nothing to do but daily quests. All for what. At least warhammer and wow had end game that kept people interested in the game for a year, even when they were just as buggy as this game. Overall this game will last another 6 months in its current state. After that you will see 4 maybe 5 total servers I'm sure you have an idea what you're talking about. I mean, praising WAR and WoW early endgame. You know what made their pve hard? WAR's bosses had invisible aoes that killed you because you couldn't see them, that, and you relied on wards to survive, which was like expertise for pve... only four times worse. WAR's bosses owned you because they were almost all bugged. WoW- raiding was simply long. It wasn't a challenge, you just had to spend months doing trivial boring things, fighting static mobs that simply had a huge amount of health. It's length came from wipes if 1 or 2 of the 40 people weren't paying attention, the amount of time it took to buff and run back, some raids taking up to half an hour to get to. That doesn't even get into bugs. It's not that easy raids are the answer- but praising games that were hard solely based on poor design or bugs makes little sense. Fire resist was the worst way possible to gate people, though putting a huge number of dull mobs in between you and bosses is also pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhak Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 WoW- raiding was simply long. It wasn't a challenge, you just had to spend months doing trivial boring things, fighting static mobs that simply had a huge amount of health. It's length came from wipes if 1 or 2 of the 40 people weren't paying attention, the amount of time it took to buff and run back, some raids taking up to half an hour to get to. That doesn't even get into bugs. It's not that easy raids are the answer- but praising games that were hard solely based on poor design or bugs makes little sense. Fire resist was the worst way possible to gate people, though putting a huge number of dull mobs in between you and bosses is also pretty bad. I remember when I first started doing MC when they released it, which coincidentally was months after the game came out. It took us hours when we first started to clear trash to the first few bosses. The bosses themselves were little more than giant HP balls that curse people sometimes. Wiping was the worst....with 40 people to rez or run back and having to buff every person or group seperately...pretty awful. Sometimes up to 15-20 minutes to fully recover. Not to mention even with the raid group in heavy fire resist Ragnaros was nigh impossible until they fixed his "by fire be purged". Endgame in SWTOR is far more cohesive at its current level. People complain about not having any content, but honestly there's a pretty solid set of dailies you can do and Ops if your guild has 8 warm bodies(for normal) and 8 good players (for HM+). Ops in SWTOR have been some of the most fun i've had "raiding" since BC in wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpal Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This is a very nice single player game with built-msn, and of course all single players lovers will be very happy to play. Worst online game .... But pretty good single play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Endgame in SWTOR is far more cohesive at its current level. People complain about not having any content, but honestly there's a pretty solid set of dailies you can do and Ops if your guild has 8 warm bodies(for normal) and 8 good players (for HM+). that's ridiculous, there is even not 16ppl in the entire empire fleet in my server, not to mention to a guild have that enough players ! u r assuming every server in any time zone has a healthy population, that's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randytravis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Im quite happy with the game atm and tbh i have no reason to call this a single player game. Been playing the genre for the past 8 years and when i played TOR i didn't notice anything to clarify this is more of a single player exp than any other MMO atm. TOR quests are mainly solo'ed apart from the Heroic quests which i kinda liked, which u had to group for so that was a bonus for me. No different to any other mainstream MMO ive played. Just more grouping.... huh thats, well that's part of a MMO... PvP is mainly solo'ed like most other MMO's. Maybe the ranked matchs might help with tht. Arena in WoW was kinda gd for the social side of pvp but brought alot of other issues. Ops requires a guild not to just pug randomly..... so i guess thats more MMO than most lol. Character progression for gear is pretty straight forward which is the same as most MMO's.... I see where this is going, needs a bit of work but nothing un salvageable. Just my 2 cents *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runeshard Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 that's ridiculous, there is even not 16ppl in the entire empire fleet in my server, not to mention to a guild have that enough players ! u r assuming every server in any time zone has a healthy population, that's impossible. Which server is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) TOR was a very good single player game with a chat room built in. If you are saying TOR is a good MMO, then I really do not understand your logic. MMOs are about persistant character growth. A game that absolutely stops at 50 is a terrible MMO. What made TOR Strong? Story? Choices? Even though I debate these were done terribly, the fact is once you hit max level these 100% stop. There is no more plot. Companions? Since all 50 content is group (where you dont have companions) or PvP (ditto) your companions basically just follow you around the imperial station. Crafting? Pointless at 50. You cant craft anything better or even matching what falls in dungeons. Challenging PvE? Nope. Nothing more than tank/spank Fun PvP? Hahah... Same about wow, Crafting? what you can get better what falls in dungeons too. No challenging pve at all. log in... sit in storm and wait for a queue to pop... a lobby game. Edited February 17, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Same about wow, Crafting? what you can get better what falls in dungeons too. No challenging pve at all. log in... sit in storm and wait for a queue to pop... a lobby game. Let me start out by saying I basically quit WoW in the middle of November. I hung around for a month or two because my sub was active, but for all intents and purposes I dropped the game due to their balancing philosophy (google "Why did the number 'Tweaks'") their continually disappointing patches and their heroic PvE content philosophy (easy easy easy easy easy medium IMPOSSIBLE) That said, I have to say what you said is just not true. Crafted gear (released per patch) is as good or better then stuff obtained during previous tiers and in some cases better then what drops in LFG and Normal mode of the current tier. Further, Darkmoon Faire trinkets were BIS depending on the class for months/years. Not to mention that WoW PvE is fairly challenging in the heroic modes and include tons of mechanics changes - not just across the board numbers buffs (until they wimp out and stomp it with the nerf bat.) If you want to compare games, then that's fine. But do so fairly. Both games have good/bad in them, but right now having played the two extensively the edge is still in WoW's corner - not because of anything they are doing, but because of what Bioware failed to do. Edited February 17, 2012 by Frostvein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddickcz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 .. (I'm also the kind of guy who have over 60 SW books Stopped reading there. Didnt really expect so positive thread by anyone else but huge star wars fan. Nothing wrong with that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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