Rage vs. Vengeance build?

[DarthWomprat]

I've been testing both builds (somewhat cookie cutter) and notice I can definitely survive and even put up larger damage numbers as vengeance. Anyone have any tips on this? I had thought rage would be more dps oriented.

[Labradoraki]

I've been testing both builds (somewhat cookie cutter) and notice I can definitely survive and even put up larger damage numbers as vengeance. Anyone have any tips on this? I had thought rage would be more dps oriented.

 

Its simple, if you have skill and want to be good use vengeance and you ll anihilate, if you cant play and just want to faceroll on your keyboard and get big numbers that requires no skill play rage

[bicuspid]

Its simple, if you have skill and want to be good use vengeance and you ll anihilate, if you cant play and just want to faceroll on your keyboard and get big numbers that requires no skill play rage

 

what exactly in vengeance does anything productive compared to 340% sweeps every 9 seconds

Edited February 16, 2012 by bicuspid

[copasetic]

It's all preference. What do you enjoy more:

 

Rage - Burst-oriented damage where the entire spec is built around buffing your Smash to do the most damage possible. When you aren't charging up/using a buffed Smash, you are using Force Scream & Ravage whenever possible. You're also spamming Sunder whenever its up to build rage. Very low survivability when you are focused and your Saber Ward/Endure Pain are on cooldown.

 

Vengeance - Lower damage and crits than buffed Smashes from Rage but far more consistent damage between Impale/Shatter/Crit Screams. Also far more survivability due to Unstoppable, Huddle, & Deafening Defense.

 

I've seen both specs do well in WZs so its up to you which to play.

[sac-]

what exactly in vengeance does anything productive compared to 230% sweeps every 9 seconds

 

Every 9 seconds? Oh, wow. This **** should be freaking OP.

[Semitote]

Its simple, if you have skill and want to be good use vengeance and you ll anihilate, if you cant play and just want to faceroll on your keyboard and get big numbers that requires no skill play rage

 

So... If you want to have an ton of survivability talents and do significantly less damage, you should play the tree that requires skill?

 

Hate to break it to you, but the Vengeance tree is the faceroll tree. Rage requires a ton of skill and setup and has the higher skill cap.

[Labradoraki]

what exactly in vengeance does anything productive compared to 340% sweeps every 9 seconds

 

l2p and get some skilll, then you ll see how good vengeance is until them play noobsmash that requires 0 skill but makes you feel better cuz u do big numbers xD

[Evilpingu]

Vengeance is viable for PvP regardless of posts to the contrary. One of the things I love about Guardians/Juggernauts is that you can go deep into any of the three trees and the build will be PvP viable. At the same time, none of them are OP.

 

I would say Veng puts out more reliable, steady damage and has a little more survivability than Rage does. Rage on the other hand does the obvious big AoE damage, realistically only hitting at full potential twice per minute, so it's quite situational with a lot of setup required.

 

Depends on what play-style you enjoy and feel most useful as.

[bicuspid]

Vengeance is viable for PvP regardless of posts to the contrary. One of the things I love about Guardians/Juggernauts is that you can go deep into any of the three trees and the build will be PvP viable. At the same time, none of them are OP.

 

I would say Veng puts out more reliable, steady damage and has a little more survivability than Rage does. Rage on the other hand does the obvious big AoE damage, realistically only hitting at full potential twice per minute, so it's quite situational with a lot of setup required.

 

Depends on what play-style you enjoy and feel most useful as.

 

problem is "reliable, steady damage" is also easily healed, whereas 4 guys on your team taking 4-5k each is rough. especially if the healer is one of them. sure there's downtime after the 3rd sweep, but by then its a lot of pressure on the healers.

 

both builds are okay, but I'd rather have a focus spec to pressure healers

[Anatlos]

problem is "reliable, steady damage" is also easily healed, whereas 4 guys on your team taking 4-5k each is rough. especially if the healer is one of them. sure there's downtime after the 3rd sweep, but by then its a lot of pressure on the healers.

 

both builds are okay, but I'd rather have a focus spec to pressure healers

 

I can push out consistent 3k hits with my Vengeance Jugg every 2-3 seconds on a good day. If we can get the person down to 20%, Vicious throw rarely crits for less than 3k itself, often closer to 4.5. It's not like we're spamming a thousand damage at a time expecting it to work, they're pretty formidable hits if you know how to manage your buffs.

[DarthNethus]

Edit:

Removed. Pointless. Don't feed the troll. Just flag him.

Edited February 16, 2012 by DarthNethus

[Semitote]

hahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahahahahahhahHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

 

 

THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST JOKES I EVER HEARD SINCE THE RELEASE OF SWTOR HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH, THANK YOU!!!!HAHHAHAHAHAH

 

OH W8 your serious, i guess your one of those pvers who also think raiding and npc bosses require skill ahahhahahahhahahahahah

 

If you think Rage is faceroll, you've never played against good PvP'ers who know how to control Rage Juggernauts. Vengeance doesn't have that problem with Unstoppable. Plus they get 4% extra endurance and 1% extra damage reduction (4% extra in Soresu Form). I don't think your definition of faceroll is the same definition I'm used to (rolling face across the keyboard and getting stuff done). I doubt you've ever even had 500k+ damage games or even think it's possible as a Juggernaut. I've only done it twice myself, and I have screenshots if you really want to see.

[sac-]

So... If you want to have an ton of survivability talents and do significantly less damage, you should play the tree that requires skill?

 

Hate to break it to you, but the Vengeance tree is the faceroll tree. Rage requires a ton of skill and setup and has the higher skill cap.

 

Charge > Exhaustion > Force Scream > Some random class knocks you back > Smash nothing.

 

- Well, ok. I'll try again.

 

9 sec doing whatever > Leap > Some random class knocks you back > Smash nothing

 

- Awww.

 

"Significantly less damage". What a joke. You do 5-6k damage with one skill? I do 3-4k with every single one.

Edited February 16, 2012 by sac-

[Anatlos]

It's funny that you say that... Because having played both (primarily Vengeance), Vengeance takes less set-up and less strategy.

I leveled as vengeance and made my first 40 valor ranks as vengeance. It's the derp spec.

And your ignorant/insulting spam post of "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" for 30 lines of text just makes you look like a moron who doesn't know the first thing about the class/spec you're bashing.

 

Vengeance is the PVE/Off-Tank build. It has better survivability and more consistent, steady damage.

 

Anyone who PVP's will tell you that you don't want steady, consistent damage in PVP. You want BURST damage in PVP... And mobility... (Rage spec? Derp?)

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. Go play a jugg before you come on these boards and talk ignorant trash, insulting people who play a class/spec that apparently beats you all the time.

 

Personally I find that survival to deal damage is better than the capacity to burst for lots of damage with an easily detectable "Smash" that most good PvPers will interrupt with a knockback, thereby wasting that skill you worked so hard to build up.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, Rage is capable of quite a bit, but due to the fact that good opponents see it coming it doesn't always end up scoring THAT much higher than vengeance on the charts.

[DarthNethus]

If you think Rage is faceroll, you've never played against good PvP'ers who know how to control Rage Juggernauts. Vengeance doesn't have that problem with Unstoppable. Plus they get 4% extra endurance and 1% extra damage reduction (4% extra in Soresu Form). I don't think your definition of faceroll is the same definition I'm used to (rolling face across the keyboard and getting stuff done). I doubt you've ever even had 500k+ damage games or even think it's possible as a Juggernaut. I've only done it twice myself, and I have screenshots if you really want to see.

 

Look at his post history. Don't even bother to engage. Just flag him.

 

He needs to be banned.

[CaptainDil]

It's funny that you say that... Because having played both (primarily Vengeance), Vengeance takes less set-up and less strategy.

I leveled as vengeance and made my first 40 valor ranks as vengeance. It's the derp spec.

And your ignorant/insulting spam post of "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" for 30 lines of text just makes you look like a moron who sdoesn't know the first thing about the class/spec you're bashing.

 

Vengeance is the PVE/Off-Tank build. It has better survivability and more consistent, steady damage.

 

Anyone who PVP's will tell you that you don't want steady, consistent damage in PVP. You want BURST damage in PVP... And mobility... (Rage spec? Derp?)

 

You have no idea what you're talking about. Go play a jugg before you come on these boards and talk ignorant trash, insulting people who play a class/spec that apparently beats you all the time.

 

As an immortal using Jugg I came on here looking do others opinions. This is is definitely the win post of the thread.

[Semitote]

Personally I find that survival to deal damage is better than the capacity to burst for lots of damage with an easily detectable "Smash" that most good PvPers will interrupt with a knockback, thereby wasting that skill you worked so hard to build up.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, Rage is capable of quite a bit, but due to the fact that good opponents see it coming it doesn't always end up scoring THAT much higher than vengeance on the charts.

 

Best part about Rage spec is it literally makes you rage.

 

Leap into 5 enemies, a full health Sorc runs in and knocks them all back just as you hit Smash. GG

[DarthNethus]

Personally I find that survival to deal damage is better than the capacity to burst for lots of damage with an easily detectable "Smash" that most good PvPers will interrupt with a knockback, thereby wasting that skill you worked so hard to build up.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Yes, Rage is capable of quite a bit, but due to the fact that good opponents see it coming it doesn't always end up scoring THAT much higher than vengeance on the charts.

 

I agree. It's very situational and you have to plan it out and anticipate when someone's going to CC you or knock you back or get away from you. So yeah, it takes a little more thought and planning.

 

The other thing though, is that it's a LOT harder to bring someone down as Veng. Especially if they're being healed or if they ARE a healer.

 

The numbers on the board will look good... But other than that, did that damage really help the team or do anything useful?

[DarthNethus]

As an immortal using Jugg I came on here looking do others opinions. This is is definitely the win post of the thread.

 

Rock N Roll.

I hope you've managed to filter through some of the mucky muck and obvious trolling and actually gotten some useful information.

 

[Anatlos]

I agree. It's very situational and you have to plan it out and anticipate when someone's going to CC you or knock you back or get away from you. So yeah, it takes a little more thought and planning.

 

The other thing though, is that it's a LOT harder to bring someone down as Veng. Especially if they're being healed or if they ARE a healer.

 

The numbers on the board will look good... But other than that, did that damage really help the team or do anything useful?

 

A healer is going to be an "X" factor in any case.

 

Your smash is mitigated by Static barrier just like everything we do, lest we forget. Besides, you can kill PLENTY of key opponents with consistent damage. Once again, they're big hits as opposed to OMGWTFHUGE hits, which isn't even the case for Rage against a geared opponent anymore. The most damage I've taken from a lolsmash was about 3.5k, and I PvP like a fiend so I'm sure I've come across plenty.

 

I've got to go back to work for now, but I enjoyed this debate. It seemed civil, and you did bring up some valid points. Rage is a great spec, but so is Veng. I simply prefer Veng for my playstyle.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Anatlos

[DarthNethus]

A healer is going to be an "X" factor in any case.

 

Your smash is mitigated by Static barrier just like everything we do, lest we forget. Besides, you can kill PLENTY of key opponents with consistent damage. Once again, they're big hits as opposed to OMGWTFHUGE hits, which isn't even the case for Rage against a geared opponent anymore. The most damage I've taken from a lolsmash was about 3.5k, and I PvP like a fiend so I'm sure I've come across plenty.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still have a hard time bringing down some healers (primarily good Mercs/Comms) but it's a heck of a lot easier when you're taking bigger chunks of health at a time.

Scream also hits pretty huge as Rage spec (will crit in the 3k - 3.5k range).

 

What I really enjoyed as Vengeance in PVP was the survivability and having more attacks + DOTs. Not to mention the no-rage smash and Unstoppable. However, I found myself more often than not just hanging out in Soresu form and keeping guard up on ball-carriers and healers.

 

It's all a matter of preference though. Now that I've tried it, I prefer Rage for PVP and Vengeance for PVE.

 

To each their own.

[DarthNethus]

I've got to go back to work for now, but I enjoyed this debate. It seemed civil, and you did bring up some valid points. Rage is a great spec, but so is Veng. I simply prefer Veng for my playstyle.

 

 

Likewise! Great convo. Have a good one, sir.

[vindianajones]

I like Vigilance (Vengeance) better, but that's just preference. I can do equally well with both but I prefer the slightly better survivability of Vigilance over the mobility and increased burst of Focus (Rage). I think I've gone back and forth 20 times or so. Frankly though, I don't find either one to be much harder than the other. Vigilance doesn't require any setup at all (unless you count sunder), but the setup for Force Sweeps isn't exactly challenging, and it's not hard to avoid the knockback and save your leap/sweep for after you get hit by it. If you know how to play your class, both are relatively simplistic. I just think Vigilance is more fun. They're both quite good.

 

Some people have raved about Focus (Rage) specs with some points in defense, staying in Soresu and avoiding the Shii-Cho specific talents in Focus. I've tried and tried it. It's nice and easy to get defense medals and you survive a bit longer, sure, but hybrid/cross specs don't seem to lend themselves well to this class. I found myself completely focus starved in this spec.

Edited February 16, 2012 by vindianajones

[Dreadspectre]

I've played Vengeance since level 10. I'm a 62 Jugg atm, I'd be higher if this game wasn't losing interest for me and if I didn't play so many alts.

 

Vengeance damage is pretty decent on squish targets but it really has issues taking down true tanks. I say this because a lot of our moves are physical damage based which means not only can shields proc on them and armor has max mitigation, these moves can also be PARRIED/DODGED/DEFLECTED. There is nothing more annoying then seeing Impale parried or a Vicious Throw dodged/parried.

 

Also, while Rage has slightly better mobility with a second leap, we have Unstoppable that, with proper positioning in expectation of a knockback, can work just as well. Also it makes us bosses in Huttball.

 

Vengeance Juggs are probably one of, if not the best ball carriers in Huttball.

[Semitote]

I like Vigilance (Vengeance) better, but that's just preference. I can do equally well with both but I prefer the slightly better survivability of Vigilance over the mobility and increased burst of Focus (Rage). I think I've gone back and forth 20 times or so. Frankly though, I don't find either one to be much harder than the other. Vigilance doesn't require any setup at all (unless you count sunder), but the setup for Force Sweeps isn't exactly challenging, and it's not hard to avoid the knockback and save your leap/sweep for after you get hit by it. If you know how to play your class, both are relatively simplistic. I just think Vigilance is more fun. They're both quite good.

 

Some people have raved about Focus (Rage) specs with some points in defense, staying in Soresu and avoiding the Shii-Cho specific talents in Focus. I've tried and tried it. It's nice and easy to get defense medals and you survive a bit longer, sure, but hybrid/cross specs don't seem to lend themselves well to this class. I found myself completely focus starved in this spec.

 

Soresu Form nerfs Rage so hard. 9% damage loss and 1 less rage generated from all assault abilities. Only use it when my primary focus is keeping a healer/ballcarrier up or running the Huttball.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Semitote