wessik Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 on helm of graush, usually you are either grouped with multiple sorcs or facing multiple consulars in a wz... this one wz, there were 4 consulars healing each other... we lol'd... they've already nerfed down surge, and one of the most played classes are sorcs/consulars means that there are healers galore doing tons of healing... in this game, those "healing" classes often also put out the most sustained damage... i don't agree with OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Healing is already ridiculously powerful in PvP. If you want trauma gone expect a huge nerf to accompany it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inseeisyou Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's OK guys...I think he means Trauma needs to go....from 30% to 40 or 50% Bwahahaha.... I see what you did there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syntxerr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) This was supposedly going to be fixed in Cata and it was.... for the 352 blue set that was available on release. Healers could easily be forced to run out of mana by 1-2 players and die. But once they got above that gear, forget about it. The core stat increases combined with resilience made their jobs a joke. But the one thing they got right was that healers shouldn't be cranking out loads of damage, which is still an issue in SWTOR. If you want to take that last bit of damage away, fair enough, then make us dish out heals like in WoW as well, please. Eye for an eye... On topic: I'm supporting removing this debuff. Edited February 16, 2012 by syntxerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridor Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Reasons Trauma needs to go. -It's easy enough to stun or interrupt a healer, which is why their heals need to hit harder when they can successfully cast. -Healers can not keep up a team-mate being attacked by 2+ dps with a 3-4k heal every 1.9 seconds (mercenary perspective), considering how hard some dps hit. -the amount of interrupts melee dps have, especially marauders/sentinels is completely ridiculous. -It's easy enough to stun or interrupt a dps, giving the healer and healee both time to recover and time to focus the single remaining enemy. -One healer isn't supposed to negate two dps. That's stupid. -As a guardian player, I have one interrupt, and it's melee range. I have several other cc options, but we discussed those under your first point. So, compared to the ranged interrupts that several other classes have... what was the problem again? I remember in WoW you would absolutely NEED to stun/cc/interrupt the healer while you kill the dps or the dps' health would skyrocket back to 50% with one casted heal. Yes, because in WoW pvp, an interrupt would lock a healer out of all healing skills. That's not true in SWTOR. Additionally, in WoW, healers were pretty overpowered. In SWTOR however, you can completely forget about the healer if you want and demolish whoever you want to kill. It's impossible to heal through damage from a couple dps because of this debuff? Are you being serious here? No, you can't forget about anyone in a pvp fight. Just because someone's a healer doesn't mean they don't also deal damage, have cc, and generally possess the capacity to make a major impact in the fight. The fact that the healer can't afk spam his GHeal doesn't make healers worthless. And of course it's impossible to heal through damage from two dps... one player should not be able to completely negate two others just because he's a healer and they're dps, without any other considerations. That's the definition of imbalance. And finally, the icing on the cake... Why do pvp healers get screwed, while pve healers can heal as much as they want? Wow. Wow. Really? This statement demonstrates the most complete failure to understand the differences between pvp and pve that I think I have EVER SEEN ANYWHERE EVER. Of all of today's QQ that I've bothered to read, this wins the prize for the most patently ridiculous attempt to provide reasons for a nerf. Learn. to. play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anasa Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 One thread is whining about PvP healing being too weak and that other thread is whining about healing being too OP. And all this when I was about to take you guys seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syntxerr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 -It's easy enough to stun or interrupt a dps, giving the healer and healee both time to recover and time to focus the single remaining enemy. -One healer isn't supposed to negate two dps. That's stupid. -As a guardian player, I have one interrupt, and it's melee range. I have several other cc options, but we discussed those under your first point. So, compared to the ranged interrupts that several other classes have... what was the problem again? One healer isn't supposed to negate two DPS when permacasting? Well I call that stupid, because you're not much of a healer than. Rather a healbot similar to a companion. If things should be this way, then healers should be considered hybrids, which when but face to face in front of a single DPS, should have a chance at killing him using healing and damage abilities, without having to flee or god knows what. Seriously, I don't understand some of those opinions, though I am sure DPS players enjoy the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridor Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If things should be this way, then healers should be considered hybrids, which when but face to face in front of a single DPS, should have a chance at killing him using healing and damage abilities, without having to flee or god knows what. Hey, I think he's starting to get the picture. Yes, healers are hybrids, that have a chance to kill a single dps. In fact I usually destroy opposing dps on my smuggler, because I can throw myself a heal and he often can't. A healbot, however, is what you're talking about... where someone mindlessly casts heals without paying attention to the actual fight, or contributing things like cc in any functional way, and expects to dominate the fight by completely negating multiple opponents. How is it balanced if you can heal someone so effectively that two people can't kill him? What's he doing while you negate everything done by two enemies... dancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skizops Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It comes down to this: The only healers that QQ about weak healing are the ones that just want to sit in back and spam heals with out using any of their utility abilities. People are too used to the care-bear aspect that WoW put healers into. So now SW:ToR comes out where healers cannot just spam heals to keep a person alive with 2 DPS beating on him, and must use CC, knockbacks, slows and what not. Good healers understand their capabilities and use them, bad healers spam heals, get destroyed, and QQ on forums about how healing needs buff. As a Mercenary Healer, I think trauma is fine the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget that expertise gives a 10%+ buff to healing, which means that really the debuff is only 20%. Frankly, a pair of Sorcerors healing each other are hard enough to take down as it is... don't need to make heals even stronger (and my main is a Hybrid Healer so I'd personally benefit more than I suffer from the change.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget that expertise gives a 10%+ buff to healing, which means that really the debuff is only 20%. Frankly, a pair of Sorcerors healing each other are hard enough to take down as it is... don't need to make heals even stronger (and my main is a Hybrid Healer so I'd personally benefit more than I suffer from the change.) Except not everyone has full BM gear to cut down the trauma buff. New 50s(and everyone 10-49) get the full on 30% debuff and garbage gear that doesn't make up for it. If you remove trauma you would need to also remove the healing buff on expertise and likely increase the effectiveness of heal debuffs(do only marauders have that?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_FeniX Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) If you want to take that last bit of damage away, fair enough, then make us dish out heals like in WoW as well, please. Eye for an eye... On topic: I'm supporting removing this debuff.It's not like WoW healers didn't find enough to QQ about on the forums. When 4.2 beat my DK into the ground in both damage output and survivability, our mainstay ability became a DPS assist/healing mitigation in the form of Necrotic Strike (a pathetic damage ability that used none of our core procs to stack a healing absorbtion debuff on our target). We damn sure couldn't 1 vs 1 a healer. But combining that with another DPS meant 1 dead healer as his heals were constantly absorbed. Sounds almost balanced to me. That was literally all we had and healers couldn't deal with actually having to work for a living. Also, Smoke Bomb as a rogue: healers would hit their "logon to the forums and QQ" macro. Your post is pretty decent though, except your next one just gets weird. One healer isn't supposed to negate two DPS when permacasting? Well I call that stupid, because you're not much of a healer than. Rather a healbot similar to a companion.That's just.... spoiled? Coming from PvPing a lot in WoW with my tankadin where, 2-3 melee attacking me meant certain death... for the other 3 guys, then getting into SWTOR where melee is actually a huge threat to Tank specced/gear Guardians is a lot more transition than what you have to deal with. If things should be this way, then healers should be considered hybrids, which when but face to face in front of a single DPS, should have a chance at killing him using healing and damage abilities, without having to flee or god knows what.You can't do that? The Sage I run with has no issue in his full healing spec putting just enough DPS in a 1vs1 to grind them down while keeping himself topped off. With his companion out? It's almost a face-roll for him. Pre-nerf OPs were literally the only class that gave him real issues as they would mez his companion, then take 90% of his health in 3-4 GCDs. If he can do that now with his mix of cent/champ gear, what could he do without a 30% healing nerf? Edited February 16, 2012 by The_FeniX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddySucks Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well at least i know my friends who are healers support me on this, I should have known better than to go to the forums for opinions. Sorry the forums opinions aren't in sync with yours'. If you can't handle other people criticizing, you SHOULD have known better. As a pure DPS class, I can say almost beyond opinion that healing is broken in it's current state. In more instances than I care to count, I can recall myself and another pure DPS chasing down a BH healer, or a Commando healer in huttball, and being unable to even scratch his armor. Even while disrupting his heals, because the interrupt is only for 4 seconds, and you have multiple healing abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sorry the forums opinions aren't in sync with yours'. If you can't handle other people criticizing, you SHOULD have known better. As a pure DPS class, I can say almost beyond opinion that healing is broken in it's current state. In more instances than I care to count, I can recall myself and another pure DPS chasing down a BH healer, or a Commando healer in huttball, and being unable to even scratch his armor. Even while disrupting his heals, because the interrupt is only for 4 seconds, and you have multiple healing abilities. Ok, though I wholly disagree with OP, this is not evidence of anything other than you failing. It doesn't mean you suck, it might just have been a bad run or he might have had better gear or been one of the best players etc, but if you can't 2v1 someone there is a problem. So far from what I've seen that problem is not the game's balance, though everyone on the forums disagrees. Maybe though, just maybe forumites are right. Mercenary is OP, Powertech is OP, Sorceror is OP, Marauder is OP, Juggernaut is OP, Operative was OP (nerfed into the ground). I have a hard time believing everyone plays an Assassin or Sniper... which suggests the classes might be fine and people just post whenever they get wtfpwnt that their opponents class must have been the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieGiraffe Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Honestly, the best way I think this should be done is as a stacking debuff. Every time a player is healed it should reduce all further healing by 5% more, it should stack up to around 75% and take at least 5 seconds for it to timeout. This would make healing still useful, make sure that heals need to be spread out for maximum effiectiveness, and stop healspam on one target making it invincible. It will also stop 2-3 healers chain healing on eachother and making them all unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetrablade Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You want to know the best way to deal with us healers? Its an ancient technique passed down from elder dps to the coming generations. Mark the healers and burn them when they show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) i agree guard is rediculously overpowerd in pvp and needs to be fixed. if you ask me it shouldnt be usable in pvp and be pve only yeah healers are "OP" lets nerf tanks nice logic there.... the only thing that rly needs fix are interrupts Edited February 16, 2012 by Batslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 is the assumption that every complaining post is at the 50 level with full gear vs full gear? If it is not then what the hell are we comparing here? Sub 50 queues a healer tank combo is very tough. the class that gets the trauma ability is sent/marauder right? They don't get guard right? what kind of battle is being compared? sawbones + guardian VS 2 marauders? is this a balanced battle? this is best case VS best case right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sub 50 queues a healer tank combo is very tough. try going up vs. a shield/pyro hybrid powertech backed up by sorc healer in decent gear ... thats essentially godmode. before the surge nerf chances were still stacked in their favor but with a little luck you could at least get them into trouble. with the nerf to surge and thus burst capabilities Tank guarding healer is an IWIN combo. theres a reason i see a ton of premades since the patch that just have 2 tanks and 2 healers in them cause right now you just dont need anything else to dominate. screw dps, theyll still tear through you simply because of being unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredsaase Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Honestly, the best way I think this should be done is as a stacking debuff. Every time a player is healed it should reduce all further healing by 5% more, it should stack up to around 75% and take at least 5 seconds for it to timeout. This would make healing still useful, make sure that heals need to be spread out for maximum effiectiveness, and stop healspam on one target making it invincible. It will also stop 2-3 healers chain healing on eachother and making them all unkillable. Why is no one CCing one of the healers is my question. By the way, that was probably the worst idea ever, because damage in PvP is never spread. It would make focus-targeting someone an instant, unrecoverable gimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senefera Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well at least i know my friends who are healers support me on this, I should have known better than to go to the forums for opinions. I's sorry to break this to you, but your friends are bad. Healing is fine. Actually, healing is more than fine; it's perfect. This is not that other game. Here us healers have to actually have a clue of what we're doing to perform well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senefera Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You want to know the best way to deal with us healers? Its an ancient technique passed down from elder dps to the coming generations. Mark the healers and burn them when they show. ..are you suggesting people should use tactics?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxillTheBoss Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Here's a tip: Truama is cleansable. Move along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 i agree the 30% must go and to be replaced with 40% atleast Your are not playing Healer, and if this goes live you will not be healed anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urishir Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 healing is ok, problem is pugs and fact people realize to burn healers down, its not really fun to get 4+ guys on me everytime i show up but if they dont theyll have alot harder time killing others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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