A Gap Closer for Operatives

[Acindo]

Operatives do not open for more than a properly specced deception Assassin.

Operatives and Assassins are not even close to the same DPS outside of stealth. Assassins out DPS them significantly.

 

You have never played an Operative so stop posting random ****.

 

We do not open as hard as an Operative.

 

Out of stealth though I would say we have the edge by a bit.

[Vamina]

Our ranged is great for Ilum wars especially grenade, but I wouldn't care if my rifle shot *********** paintballs to have a gap closer, remember kids, stealth is out of combat, stop using that as an excuse to say operatives do not need a fix.

Quoted for truth.

 

Every other melee class can use their gap closers in combat. We open for more than Assassins/Shadows from stealth, but that still gives them greater survivability, a knockback, and a gap closer. I would personally be happy with just the gap closer.

[Aaoogaa]

Stealth..there is your gap closer. It allows you to start the fight on top of your target. Anything that happens after that well it isn't an issue.

[Remdo]

Something that would be cool and add more utility for the class is to add some kind of james bond hook thingy.

When u press the ability u get a targeting ring u can place anywhere in the environment in every axis (much like when u throw the huttball) and u shoot out this hook from ur weapon and u get pulled to that area.

 

Not as good as a charge for closing a gap to an oppenent, or a grapple ability. Require some brain because u actually have to aim it (if used to close gap to an opponent) But this gives ops and scoundrels more utility and more purpose in Huttball.

Ofcourse a range requirement is needed say 25m or something.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Remdo

[BobaFurz]

Stealth..there is your gap closer. It allows you to start the fight on top of your target. Anything that happens after that well it isn't an issue.

 

Vanish can be used, he just needs to walk back and has all his opener again. A true gap closer like warrior have would be probably too strong.

Edited February 18, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Luno]

I think if they gave Evasion a baseline run speed boost and CC immunity for its 3 second duration, that would be workable and would fit in well with the skill.

[JediDuckling]

First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment.

 

If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent.

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree.

2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%).

3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target.

 

Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers!

 

why would a ranged class have gap closers ?

 

thats like giving a mercinary a leap ability

[Vamina]

Vanish can be used, he just needs to walk back and has all his opener again. A true gap closer like warrior have would be probably too strong.

Cloaking Screen is on a 2 minute cooldown and is in fact our best defensive cooldown. No other melee class has to blow their best defensive cooldown in order to use their gap closer. I am not suggesting that an Operative gap closer should allow the use of Hidden Strike or even re-stealth, as that would be overpowered.

 

And to everyone saying that stealth is a gap closer, that is true if we're talking about out of combat. Every other melee class has a gap closer that can be used in combat and greater survivability than Operatives. That is the point we're trying to make.

[Remdo]

I think if they gave Evasion a baseline run speed boost and CC immunity for its 3 second duration, that would be workable and would fit in well with the skill.

 

That could work.

Needless to say we need some kind of utility improvement. Soon Ranked Warzone roll out and I fear we'll simply get excluded from groups since (atleast on my server) 90% of the warzones are Huttball in which any other class would be more preferable

[JediDuckling]

We do not open as hard as an Operative.

 

Out of stealth though I would say we have the edge by a bit.

 

you got it right you will be lucky to get a 3.5k crit off with maul lol operatives are still dishing out 4k to 6k spamms

[Remdo]

you got it right you will be lucky to get a 3.5k crit off with maul lol operatives are still dishing out 4k to 6k spamms

 

^someone rerolled sorc and played his first wz and got hit by a champion geared operative.

[Neamhan]

By that logic you could say Sith Warriors don't need a gap closer due to having Saber Throw and Force Choke, or that Assassins don't need a gap closer because they have Shock. Of the melee classes, Powertechs are the only ones remotely viable from range, and that's pushing it since two of their main attacks are melee range.

 

Shock has a 10m range, not 30. Saber Throw had a long cooldown. Operatives can spam attacks from 30m away if needed.

[exphryl]

I'd like a way to get out of combat and away when I need it (Yes, I'm aware yours is on cooldown but still it's there)

 

All those gap closers to me dandy when I can't get away at all and am forced to die...

[Neamhan]

I don't think tanks are supposed to put out good DPS tbh.

 

What about sundering strike? Armor pen and decent damage + builds focus

 

Focus Guardians aren't tanks. The Focus tree is one of their dps trees. Sundering Strike also has a 5 second cooldown.

[Ich_Bin]

why would a ranged class have gap closers ?

 

thats like giving a mercinary a leap ability

It is not a ranged class. From range we only have our pee-stol and a dot. We need to get in melee range to do any real damage.

 

 

you got it right you will be lucky to get a 3.5k crit off with maul lol operatives are still dishing out 4k to 6k spamms

This is nothing a blunt lie. Ask around if anyone has ever achieved the 5k medal after the last nerf.

So far I have only read of one case: The guy (battlemaster gear) took the expertise buff, popped an expertise adrenal, biochem adrenal and relic. He critted for 5050 on an undergeared sorc that had no bubble up and was not being guarded.

 

Furthermore the opener from stealth is the only real burst that Scoundrels/Operatives have left. After that they hit like girls.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[fixit]

b) Evasive Imperative (evasion gives 30% speed) moved to concealment, or just lower in the medic tree.

 

Pity it doesn't actually work atm, one of the many broken med talents so that particular 'gap closer' can be written off the list. But I don't agree, this talent was supposed to be for us healin ops to get away. But it's broken so w/e.

 

On topic...stealth is a gap closer, but to do so requires one to be stealthed which is pretty much impossible in PvP these days. I have had it taken over 2 minutes to break combat. Now imagine if Sorc/Sage sprint was only usuable outside of combat; they would bring these forums down with a slew of 10000s of posts.

 

But I digress, I play heal ops so stealth is pretty much useless since after the HS nerf I get 1k crits at most on geared players with it. Not even worth the bother plus it puts you in melee range which is a bad move all in all for healer.

 

As heal ops, all I wish for is an AoE knockback like the sorcs/sages. I want them to feel the pain by throwing them into the pit over and over too. But hey, at least they have sprint which would give all the advantages to them even still.

Edited February 18, 2012 by fixit

[Vamina]

why would a ranged class have gap closers ?

 

thats like giving a mercinary a leap ability

Hello person who has never played this game. The download button is that way...Control+W...

[Vamina]

Shock has a 10m range, not 30. Saber Throw had a long cooldown. Operatives can spam attacks from 30m away if needed.

Operatives have one 30m attack that can be spammed, and we may as well be firing paintballs. It's only use is dropping a runner who is nearly dead or stopping someone from taking a node in a Warzone, either of which do not merit a melee class not having a gap closing like every other melee class does.

[revned]

First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment.

 

If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent.

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree.

2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%).

3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target.

 

Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers!

 

A 4 second root/slow and flashbang isnt enough? Silly me. for considering that to be a gap closer.

[gryhmr]

A 4 second root/slow and flashbang isnt enough? Silly me. for considering that to be a gap closer.

 

Exactly. They don't need ****.

[Slickgtx]

A 4 second root/slow and flashbang isnt enough? Silly me. for considering that to be a gap closer.

 

When they have a range of 10m? Nope, those do not qualify as gap closers. Plus, I don't see other gap closers give half of a resolve bar like flashbang does

[Kryogenique]

Sorry, did you forget about that blaster rifle in your hands?

 

Honestly they should just get rid of the blaster rifle for ops and replace it with twin knifes or something because nobody uses it.

 

Overload is pretty hard-hitting to me as a sniper and ops have a skill which boosts its damage. Try using it when they eventually get up of the ground.

 

Don't think of yourself as a melee class without a gap closer.

Think of yourself as a melee class with ranged attacks.

 

Don't ignore your blaster rifle.

[revned]

When they have a range of 10m? Nope, those do not qualify as gap closers. Plus, I don't see other gap closers give half of a resolve bar like flashbang does

 

actually, i don't think flashbang gives any resolve considering i've had 3 flashbang debuffs on me at the same time and only a 1/2 full resolve as well because i was 4 second sorc stunned (surprise surprise) just prior to the flashbangs.

 

and if an operative outside of being being cc'd by one of the ten thousand cc's in this game is letting anyone get more than 10m from them then they're bad. They also have cover/snipe/other numerous ranged attacks that ARENT 10m that still hit ridiculously hard for them to be all out considered a "melee" class. I call ********.

[CaptainInsano]

Shadowstep or bust!

[angelraven]

flash grenade is on a short cooldown. it lets you get in melee range. use it. if it doesn't get you in melee range, it gets you within tendon blast range, and root isnt effected by resolve. you dont have to blow vanish unless you try to take on more than 1 player, or someone catches you out of stealth.

 

dont be bad: save tendon blast for after they trinket your stun.

 

you dont deserve a teleport/shadowstep.

 

30m auto attack/grenade is not for dps (lol mouthbreather) its for stopping a node cap when it counts. play a melee without that capability before you say its nbd.