So how long is 'Give them time...'?

[DarthKhaos]

They had years and the last year they were working on "Polish" as they say. The game should have been in better shape. I had high hopes for SWTOR, but you can plainly see BW put their money into Voiceover and at endgame there's nothing to do but boring Wz grinds, a laggy boring aoe fest in Illum grinding, or easy heroic fps, operations. You're geared up in a week or so. I gave them 2 months, they get no more money from me. I can already see how they are with communicating with the community, and how they break the game even worse every patch, because they don't really keep it on the PTR long enough to make sure it doesn't break stuff on live. It's unacceptable, and I expect higher standards for a game of 2012. I probably would have put up with it if it were 2004 but not today.

Looks pretty polished to me. got room for imporvement but guess what my client didn't crash daily, servers weren't down daily, game looks sweet, I can kick back and enjoy the voice acting. It took me an entire week to download the game and I don't lag. I got a PoS computer and I hardly have frame rate issues.

 

Yup got polish.

[Jonlinar]

So for all the people that are saying 'Give them time to do X...', how much time should we be giving them before we say enough is enough? This isn't a troll or a negative post, I'm just trying to pinpoint when we should be fed up.

 

Are we saying 6 months? 9 months? A year?

 

Personally, I think if there isn't a significant turnaround in 6 months then you seriously have to consider if the game has a long term future. I think after 6 months that you have to really start looking at Server Merges, forced faction balances, etc.

 

I truly don't want to see any of those things, but after so long you can't use the argument 'Give them time...' anymore. What are your thoughts?

 

V

 

I agree with 6 months. A year a is being generous. Past that is 'get your **** together.'

[Voorshwa]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that replied to the thread.

 

For the most part all of the responses have been very good and everyone stayed on topic. I think there is some really good feedback in the thread and also gave me what I was looking for from the community.

 

Thank you again and have fun.

 

V

[VorpalK]

So for all the people that are saying 'Give them time to do X...', how much time should we be giving them before we say enough is enough? This isn't a troll or a negative post, I'm just trying to pinpoint when we should be fed up.

 

Are we saying 6 months? 9 months? A year?

 

Personally, I think if there isn't a significant turnaround in 6 months then you seriously have to consider if the game has a long term future. I think after 6 months that you have to really start looking at Server Merges, forced faction balances, etc.

 

I truly don't want to see any of those things, but after so long you can't use the argument 'Give them time...' anymore. What are your thoughts?

 

V

 

My thought is that you're just stirring the pot. Most of the complaints about "why hasn't this been fixed yet" are entirely unreasonable.

[Donzie]

I would say 6 months into a new game with a good subscription base to get there act together. But to be honest Bioware and EA are not little companies and should have things done faster than they are such as the WZ wins, class balances, ect. It's almost two months in and there is still a lot to be done on there part.

Saying this the game is still very enjoyable in most parts and after almost quitting the game due to imbalanced and boring pvp I though, that why not find ways to make this better. And presto, the game opened up to me. ILUM, the person saying just a aoe fest, weil get off your backside and go looking for kills instead of being lazy and cheating the system for valour. This is why, people have gotten lazy to games and I was too. Open your eyes and actually play the game right. This is not WoW where your spoon fed

like a baby, so get up, get out and start looking for things to do.

But I do agree with points on PvE side I would like to see a new raid maybe every 1-2 months, that will keep the raiders intrested. This is one reason I think people are starting to moan aswell, same as the same 3 WZ over and over but instead of going in for sheet medals all the time (unless guildrun) give yourself challenges, like say in void star how many people you can punt of the bridge is always good fun my record is 11 people before either killed or ran away.

The game is what YOU make of it...

Edited February 17, 2012 by Donzie

[otakuon]

The game is what YOU make of it...

 

Ah...someone else you gets it.

 

An MMO is a contract between the player and the developer. We pay a monthly subscription fee in order to fund continuous development of the game. As gamers, our obligation is to participate in the community and help the developers make us a better game. As time goes on, the game will get better and will incorporate more and more of the feature and content that the community, the players of the game, are asking for. This is why I say that if you are going to play an MMO you should at least commit to it for 6 months. If 6 months have pass and the developers haven't fulfilled their end of the bargain and haven't delivered a product that you can enjoy, then you should no longer feel obligated to hold up your end of the bargain and just quit.

Edited February 17, 2012 by otakuon

[Romiz]

Major bugs, performance issues, imbalances, graphical fixes etc this stuff should be fixed in beta.

 

That is wrong also. There has never been one MMO that launched and have performance working for ALL POSSIBLE PC and MAC builds. It is not possible. Even WoW after 7 years has these problems and that is only naming the biggest sub base MMO.

 

The reason consoles do not have issues. You build a game for a Xbox 360, PS3 and so you the programs know 100% the limits of the systems and tweak around it. PC and MAC you are looking at 100,000+ (At least) combinations of OS, CPU, GPU, memory and screen Res. And make it worst CPUs, GPUs amd Memory has all kinds of clock rates.

 

All MMOs can do it work to hit performance for the majority then have the client have options to lower graphics. When a company states the min setting for a game that is only lowest setting and res.

[PostalTwinkie]

 

All MMOs can do it work to hit performance for the majority then have the client have options to lower graphics. When a company states the min setting for a game that is only lowest setting and res.

 

*Boot to the chest*

 

Now that I have knocked you off your Fanboy horse......

 

In the case of SWTOR, BioWare failed to deliver in terms of performance. This isn't just a case of "This game runs like crap on my old computer...", it is a case of "This game runs like crap on the majority of builds, including systems it should run amazing on.". Systems based on a Core i7 2600K, GTX 580's....etc.

 

People can pretend about all sorts of things, but this game running well is not one of them.

[WarSiren]

There are two intervals really. 3rd Payment Cycle and 6th Payment Cycle. Those are when a majority of people looking for an MMO for the long haul will decide whether it's worth staying. People that jump before then are 9out of 10 MMO hoppers and had no intent on staying anyways or have unrealistic expectations and will go back to an MMO that has been out for years and had a chance to actually add all the polish.

[asbalana]

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

 

Actual quote, just for reference.

 

Actually there is one more line to the quote. It goes - That being said, all you have to do is fool enough of the people enough of the time.

 

The actual answer to the questions is until you do not find playing fun any longer and feel no desire to log in. At that point time has run out. Until then enjoy yourself and play the game for what it is, rather than what it might be. The timing, if ever, of the resolution of problems is not in the hands of the players, but rather BWs.

[PostalTwinkie]

Actually there is one more line to the quote. It goes - That being said, all you have to do is fool enough of the people enough of the time.

 

The actual answer to the questions is until you do not find playing fun any longer and feel no desire to log in. At that point time has run out. Until then enjoy yourself and play the game for what it is, rather than what it might be. The timing, if ever, of the resolution of problems is not in the hands of the players, but rather BWs.

 

But what is in the hands of BioWare is the decision to communicate openly and honestly with the player base. Up to this point we have been given responses from the convoluted to down right blaming the customer. BioWare won't be able to save every customer that is leaving, but a good portion would stay if they would communicate.

 

As a business owner I can truly say that if I came into my office and on a daily basis had a steady and measurable number of customers dumping our service, conversations would be had!

[WarSiren]

But what is in the hands of BioWare is the decision to communicate openly and honestly with the player base. Up to this point we have been given responses from the convoluted to down right blaming the customer. BioWare won't be able to save every customer that is leaving, but a good portion would stay if they would communicate.

 

As a business owner I can truly say that if I came into my office and on a daily basis had a steady and measurable number of customers dumping our service, conversations would be had!

 

http://www.darthhater.com

 

They communicate quite a lot.

[LordSkyKnight]

So at 2 months in, you're threatening doom and gloom if things aren't exactly how you want them to be in 4 more months? Do you realize that this mindset, more than anything else, is what ruins the game for you, and not the game's issues themselves?

 

Bad game causes that mindset.

[Nitewolfe]

So for all the people that are saying 'Give them time to do X...', how much time should we be giving them before we say enough is enough? This isn't a troll or a negative post, I'm just trying to pinpoint when we should be fed up.

 

Are we saying 6 months? 9 months? A year?

 

Personally, I think if there isn't a significant turnaround in 6 months then you seriously have to consider if the game has a long term future. I think after 6 months that you have to really start looking at Server Merges, forced faction balances, etc.

 

I truly don't want to see any of those things, but after so long you can't use the argument 'Give them time...' anymore. What are your thoughts?

 

V

 

For me they have till Tera open beta.

I carry a rift and wow sub on top of swtor and dont plan on giving up rift or wow.

[PostalTwinkie]

http://www.darthhater.com

 

They communicate quite a lot.

 

Just glancing over the main page I see lots of patch notes, some data mined patch notes, and some public notices that are on this website as well.

 

I am going to take a venture that there isn't anything relevant in terms of what they are planning on doing to resolve the numerous performance issues, etc.

[WarSiren]

Just glancing over the main page I see lots of patch notes, some data mined patch notes, and some public notices that are on this website as well.

 

I am going to take a venture that there isn't anything relevant in terms of what they are planning on doing to resolve the numerous performance issues, etc.

 

Actually there's been quite a few interviews, Plus Bioware does Q&A's like every two weeks they usually post the transcript up there. Now if you are looking for exact what are we going to do.. That isn't going to happen no MMO company tells you exactly what they are doing. But they do inform things are in the pipeline etc.

 

Plus every patch has improved performance, to some degree. Game runs flawlessly for me. *shrug* I know there are still people having issues but I'm wondering if it's a simple matter of making sure their drivers are updated, Not tuning everything in High turning some things down to improve performance for them etc. I have a nice gaming rig not the best it's about 2 years old now so could use some updating but like I said the game runs pretty damn smooth for me.

[PostalTwinkie]

Actually there's been quite a few interviews, Plus Bioware does Q&A's like every two weeks they usually post the transcript up there. Now if you are looking for exact what are we going to do.. That isn't going to happen no MMO company tells you exactly what they are doing. But they do inform things are in the pipeline etc.

 

Plus every patch has improved performance, to some degree. Game runs flawlessly for me. *shrug* I know there are still people having issues but I'm wondering if it's a simple matter of making sure their drivers are updated, Not tuning everything in High turning some things down to improve performance for them etc. I have a nice gaming rig not the best it's about 2 years old now so could use some updating but like I said the game runs pretty damn smooth for me.

 

I would be interested in seeing the Q&A and other communications from BW that speak directly to the number of issues the masses are having. Mainly the terrible performance; frame rate issues, load times, etc. Problems with the game engine they chose, HeroEngine. None of these have been addressed in detail or in a clear and concise manner.

 

As for the statement of drivers, graphical options and so on. Those don't apply here, or on the other systems I have tested this game on. Or on the systems that many other technically inclined individuals are having the issue on.

 

I would also love to know your definition of flawless. I personally define it as a game not dropping below 60FPS, typical display refresh rate, for any reason or at any time. If I walk into fleet or into a 20 v 20 PvP situation, dropping below 60 fps is not flawless. But at this point I would be happy with a solid 45 FPS.

 

I also know for a fact that you have hitches and halts when you play. How do I know this? Because when you open a menu there is a halt command issued to the render in the game engine. This is something coded into the game, it isn't a player option or based on your hardware. For whatever reason BioWare decided to put this into play! Player opens a menu, halt rendering. New data comes into the players field of view, another player, another halt command is issued to the rendering engine until the data is pulled from the HDD.

 

As long as these functions are in play it is impossible for this game to run at a "flawless" level.

Edited February 17, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[WarSiren]

I would be interested in seeing the Q&A and other communications from BW that speak directly to the number of issues the masses are having. Mainly the terrible performance; frame rate issues, load times, etc. Problems with the game engine they chose, HeroEngine. None of these have been addressed in detail or in a clear and concise manner.

 

As for the statement of drivers, graphical options and so on. Those don't apply here, or on the other systems I have tested this game on. Or on the systems that many other technically inclined individuals are having the issue on.

 

I would also love to know your definition of flawless. I personally define it as a game not dropping below 60FPS, typical display refresh rate, for any reason or at any time. If I walk into fleet or into a 20 v 20 PvP situation, dropping below 60 fps is not flawless. But at this point I would be happy with a solid 45 FPS.

 

I also know for a fact that you have hitches and halts when you play. How do I know this? Because when you open a menu there is a halt command issued to the render in the game engine. This is something coded into the game, it isn't a player option or based on your hardware. For whatever reason BioWare decided to put this into play! Player opens a menu, halt rendering. New data comes into the players field of view, another player, another halt command is issued to the rendering engine until the data is pulled from the HDD.

 

As long as these functions are in play it is impossible for this game to run at a "flawless" level.

 

Let me define Flawless as it stands for MMORPG performance flawless vs Anal Retentive Flawless

 

The games run smooth enough that unless I open my FPS and watch it, it's not noticeable when it slightly drops. Also I can open menus in mid combat and in PvP with out missing a beat. So either you are expecting way to much (see anal retentive) or you're not focusing on playing, and focusing on things that really have no bearing at all. If you can play smoothly preform PvP or Raid combat without any lose to FPS that is MMO Flawless. So if you're having issues that affecting your game play, it's most likely something not clicking right with your system or a setting is messing you up. My game play experience has been unhindered and pretty smooth since I updated my drivers. (which was like on the 3rd day of early access.). I'm not saying there isn't things conflicting with peoples systems but I'm really starting to think a lot of issues are people just being way to anal about things.

[lorddakar]

Bioware really needs to step up the customer service. Sometimes it is the players fault but the majority of it is on biowares end. They got feedback during beta and didnt really listen. The game still feels like it is in beta.

[Lightvent]

Give them time...????

 

This game isn't going to last. For this game to survive, they'll have to revamp EVERYTHING. Classes, advance classes, grouping, leveling, talents, companions (because post 50 they just follow you around most of the time), mobs, and raiding.

 

What happened the age of EQ1? Now, that was a great MMORPG and if you haven't played it you definitely missed out. It has the MMO and RPG. SWTOR is just a "single-player RPG with a chat box."

 

If you think SWTOR is going to survive as an MMORPG, name a few things they have "right."

[Koalachan]

As long as I am still having fun playing the game I will give them all the time in the world.

[Noirmorris]

If you want to understand the REAL direction of this game, read this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=308227

 

We must not let them ignore us. We're the one who decides if this game will live or not so please..READ THAT POST AND HELP THE COMMUNITY TO SHOW THE TRUTH.

[Ebbikenezer]

I would be interested in seeing the Q&A and other communications from BW that speak directly to the number of issues the masses(Which "masses" are these? I haven't seen empirical data, there could be 2,000 or half a million....) are having. Mainly the terrible performance;("Terrible Performance" is a subjective term open to interpretation, what you think is wonderful may be my terrible and so on...) frame rate issues, load times, etc. Problems with the game engine they chose, HeroEngine. None of these have been addressed in detail or in a clear and concise manner.

 

As for the statement of drivers, graphical options and so on. Those don't apply here, or on the other systems I have tested this game on. Or on the systems that many other technically inclined individuals(How many is "many other" and how do YOU know they are technically inclined? If you know the IRL, most likely they would go along with you anyhow, and if they are saying they are "technically inclined" on the internet they probably should have used the term "technologically inclined" instead so as not to appear so trollish.) are having the issue on.

 

I would also love to know your definition of flawless.(Why? It's subjective, and several people have posted their definition or thoughts on a good and a bad experience. What more do you want?) I personally define it as a game not dropping below 60FPS, typical display refresh rate, for any reason or at any time. If I walk into fleet or into a 20 v 20 PvP situation, dropping below 60 fps is not flawless. But at this point I would be happy with a solid 45 FPS.

 

I also know for a fact(Regardless of what you know about the coding and engine you DO NOT know the experience any of us are having unless you live with us.) that you have hitches and halts when you play. How do I know this? Because when you open a menu there is a halt command issued to the render in the game engine. This is something coded into the game, it isn't a player option or based on your hardware. For whatever reason BioWare decided to put this into play! Player opens a menu, halt rendering. New data comes into the players field of view, another player, another halt command is issued to the rendering engine until the data is pulled from the HDD.

 

As long as these functions are in play it is impossible for this game to run at a "flawless" level.(In your opinion.)

 

 

It's not that I disagree with some of the things you said, and I DO disagree with some other things you said. The overall issue with your post is the lack of substantial evidence, no empirical data to support your "factual claims" and the tone.

 

It would be easier for me to digest your post as an intelligent, non-biased opinion if you didn't try to sound so far above the rest of us... with not really much to back it up.

 

Oh, later edit: If BW addressed us "concisely" about the issues and how they are being handled, too many people would be filling the General DIscussion forums with "I don't understand why BW is so cryptic and shallow with their communication!!!!" instead of "OMG this was the last/final/for real/can't take it/gamebreaking bug AND I QUIT!" threads.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Ebbikenezer

[Opapanax]

flaw·less

  [flaw-lis]

 

adjective

1.

having no defects or faults, especially none that diminish the value of something: a flawless Ming Dynasty vase.

 

2.

legally sound: The prosecution had a flawless case.

 

3.

having no discernible blemishes or shortcomings; perfect: flawless French; flawless beauty.

 

To keep everything clear..

[Sardia-Jax]

So for all the people that are saying 'Give them time to do X...', how much time should we be giving them before we say enough is enough? This isn't a troll or a negative post, I'm just trying to pinpoint when we should be fed up.

 

Are we saying 6 months? 9 months? A year?

 

Personally, I think if there isn't a significant turnaround in 6 months then you seriously have to consider if the game has a long term future. I think after 6 months that you have to really start looking at Server Merges, forced faction balances, etc.

 

I truly don't want to see any of those things, but after so long you can't use the argument 'Give them time...' anymore. What are your thoughts?

 

V

 

For me personally, ill say, 3-4 months...thats a quarterly statement to action taken, money wise. Game terms, i just expected more from this game at launch : macros, a, at the very least, frame movable ui....among other quality of life issues that would be blatantly obvious in a beta test. But, that said, ill be patient. I'm giving it til April to see if the legacy system is worth a damn (wish they wernt so coy, just put out specifics for fu*ks sakes), if crafting plans are at LEAST put to an idea stage of developement (givin the devs desire to "eventually" make TOR a player driven eco) and quality of life issues like speeder speed are addressed.

 

Time will tell.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Sardia-Jax