The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[TetraCleric]

And who cares if it's longer duration?

 

250% runspeed for 2 seconds, and then running at 100% for 3 seconds is a longer distance than 5 seconds of 140% runspeed, and much faster to get from Point A to Point B.

 

 

I'm not even sure what you guys are trying to argue.

 

I'm not arguing anything, just pointing out that technically speaking what he said was true.

[Tsubodia]

And who cares if it's longer duration?

 

250% runspeed for 2 seconds, and then running at 100% for 3 seconds is a longer distance than 5 seconds of 140% runspeed, and much faster to get from Point A to Point B.

 

 

lets say basic movement = 1m/s.

 

therfore

 

250% = 1m/s * 250 = 250m/s.. so

 

250% for 2s = 500m yeh?

 

140% = 1m/s *140 = 140m/s ... right.. so

 

140% for 5s =.. no watch this carefully it may confuse your small brain...

140 x 5 = 700m

 

sorc may get from a to be faster but warrior WILL undoubtedly catch his *** up if he has to stop to heal. hell even if you add on the extra 300m to sorc there is still only a 100m diff in that basic figure and said warrior can cover that distance WITH a group attached to him

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tsubodia

[savionen]

lets say basic movement = 1m/s.

 

therfore

 

250% = 1m/s * 250 = 250m/s.. so

 

250% for 2s = 500m yeh?

 

140% = 1m/s *140 = 140m/s ... right.. so

 

140% for 5s =.. no watch this carefully it may confuse your small brain...

140 x 5 = 700m

 

sorc may get from a to be faster but warrior WILL undoubtedly catch his *** up

 

So you just use Force Run and then stop moving? 250% for 2 seconds + 100% for 3 seconds is 800.... Obliterate also requires melee range, and Sorcerers have tons of CC that could you know, root/snare with.

[Tsubodia]

So you just use Force Run and then stop moving? 250% for 2 seconds + 100% for 3 seconds is 800.... Obliterate also requires melee range, and Sorcerers have tons of CC that could you know, root/snare with.

 

sorcs dont have a root if they are not spect in to the talent in lightning. marauders also have force leap which ROOTS the target and INTERUPTS any cast. Add that to the fact a sorc ill likely stop soon after sprint most likely to cast a heal on themself or something else

 

not to mention if you let a sorc sprint away your being bad

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tsubodia

[Emperor_Troll]

sorcerers and sages have way too many cc abilities so please remove some and replace them with mobile instacast burst damage please.

 

ty

Edited February 20, 2012 by Emperor_Troll

[savionen]

sorcs dont have a root if they are not spect in to the talent in lightning. marauders also have force leap which ROOTS the target and INTERUPTS any cast. Add that to the fact a sorc ill likely stop soon after sprint most likely to cast a heal on themself or something else

 

not to mention if you let a sorc sprint away your being bad

 

The Root is in the PvP spec...., ontop of a Mez on bubble breaking. Force Leap is the gap closer. Otherwise you have to catch a bad Sorc with no situational awareness. Getting caught by a Marauder would mean you're bad. They don't have any way to break roots, snares or CCs aside from the CC-breaker. Well, I guess the talent in the worthless Carnage tree.

Edited February 20, 2012 by savionen

[LaVolpex]

man and i thought frost mages in wow were cheesy...

 

lighting mass aoe spam bubble charge dash leap snare blind cc mass sage spamming takes "Cheesy" to a whole new level

 

i am not kidding , i will make the experiment once i get a sorc to fifty , i will teach my mom to play with just four abitlies and tell her, just run to people and hit those four buttons as they light up, seriously think shell do ok

[Tsubodia]

The Root is in the PvP spec...., ontop of a Mez on bubble breaking. Force Leap is the gap closer. Otherwise you have to catch a bad Sorc with no situational awareness. Getting caught by a Marauder would mean you're bad. they don't have any way to break roots, snares or CCs aside from the CC-breaker.

 

 

noone else has anyway to break them beside a cc breaker either.. what kind of crap is this?

you keep posting?

 

the "pvp" spec as you so call it doesn't exist. if you choose to play the 20/21 build you are gimping your team massivly. the only time this works properly is if you run a premade with a very specific job.

 

"have to catch a bad sorc with no situational awareness" yeh force charging up a height of 20feet onto a top level in hutball to insta force push the sorc into the open.. yeh thats the sorcs fault right whos probably doing something usefull.

 

a good marauder has NO issues getting on and staying on targets

[LaVolpex]

sorcs dont have a root if they are not spect in to the talent in lightning. marauders also have force leap which ROOTS the target and INTERUPTS any cast. Add that to the fact a sorc ill likely stop soon after sprint most likely to cast a heal on themself or something else

 

not to mention if you let a sorc sprint away your being bad

 

says the pvp speced sorc with mass CCs ...how exactly do i predict you are going to sprint away ? clairvoyancy?

[Tsubodia]

man and i thought frost mages in wow were cheesy...

 

lighting mass aoe spam bubble charge dash leap snare blind cc mass sage spamming takes "Cheesy" to a whole new level

 

i am not kidding , i will make the experiment once i get a sorc to fifty , i will teach my mom to play with just four abitlies and tell her, just run to people and hit those four buttons as they light up, seriously think shell do ok

 

i doubt it. any sorc running round only using 4 buttons is a free kill to anyone and anything

[Tsubodia]

says the pvp speced sorc with mass CCs ...how exactly do i predict you are going to sprint away ? clairvoyancy?

 

says the moron who hasnt read anything ive posted to know im spect out in a damage role not a cc role. go troll elsewhere. Or are you that bad that my 2 ccs are too much for you to handle?

[Emperor_Troll]

man and i thought frost mages in wow were cheesy...

 

lighting mass aoe spam bubble charge dash leap snare blind cc mass sage spamming takes "Cheesy" to a whole new level

 

i am not kidding , i will make the experiment once i get a sorc to fifty , i will teach my mom to play with just four abitlies and tell her, just run to people and hit those four buttons as they light up, seriously think shell do ok

 

you and your mom will get owned a lot more than you think so be prepared to come back to the forums and whine about it at some point.

[SirGradivus]

Do you really expect BW to do anything about it? No...they would be admitting they made a mistake. Or maybe forget to check something...no not BW!

[Tsubodia]

Do you really expect BW to do anything about it? No...they would be admitting they made a mistake. Or maybe forget to check something...no not BW!

 

well considering bioware have already admitted to making a lot of mistakes and errors and work on fixing them already. The class is fine. the specs are fine. ppl being bad and qqing is not fine. Anyone playing a sorc knows exactly how fine it is as their *** is likely trained 24/7 in a wz as they are super squishy

[Guioki]

They also excel in CC and mobility. The problem is they excel at way more things than any other classes. And no, they do NOT have poor survivability with bubble. Over a short fight they can end up casting 1-2 bubbles ontop of a pre-casted bubble, that's 7-10.5k damage that is blocked. Please tell me another class that can negate that much damage, aside from Marauder's Undying rage, if you decide not to CC them.

 

The hybrid spec for Sorcerers have mobility, survivability, moderate damage, the most CC of any class, and then moderate utility/healing. They're the best CC class, mixed with being 90% as good at just about everything else.

 

If you want to be a tank as a juggernaut, you have to sacrifice a lot of damage, etc. With the Hybrid spec Sorcerers really don't sacrifice much in PvP. It's not uncommon for a Sorcerer to get 400k+ damage and then 200k+ healing and 100+ protection in one match.

 

Are Sorcerer healers OP? No. A pure DPS build? No. The hybrid spec is what needs to be nerfed.

 

 

Wow sorcs doing 400k damage 200k healing and 100k protection? so weve gone from the 31/31/31 sorc to the 31/31/31 sorc/assassin hybrid. They dont have the most utility, they only have the most obvious CC.

[Tumri]

A few pages back it was agreed upon that the specs I posted have excessive CC but you(and some others) claimed that to gain that excessive overpowered amount of CC you have to gimp yourself. Spreadsheets showed this to be about a ~100 dps loss when compared to the full dps 0/13/28 build and about ~50 dps loss compared to full 31-point specs. This is stand still DPS and you don't actually lose that much in an actual PvP situation.

 

Tsubodia if Sorcs have to gimp themselves to play either a 0/18/23 or 0/23/18 build then why do you care if it's nerfed? Answer this question instead of deflecting into another tangent like last time please.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tumri

[Guioki]

A few pages back it was agreed upon that the specs I posted have excessive CC but you(and some others) claimed that to gain that excessive overpowered amount of CC you have to gimp yourself. Spreadsheets showed this to be about a ~100 dps loss when compared to the full dps 0/13/28 build and about ~50 dps loss compared to full 31-point specs. This is stand still DPS and you don't actually lose that much in an actual PvP situation.

 

Tsubodia if Sorcs have to gimp themselves to play either a 0/18/23 or 0/23/18 build then why do you care if it's nerfed? Answer this question instead of deflecting into another tangent like last time please.

 

Firstly nobody agreed it was overpowered, you and some fanboy did. We all say to get that one extra utility that your so called OP spec has you gimp yourself.

 

In a pvp situation you actually lose more, because the 30% surge reduction on one of your two main mobile damage dealers is a huge reduction in damage. You also lose the ability to use your better forms of CC by giving them a max resolve bar for a tiny 3 second unpredictable mez that breaks whenever you do damage.

 

And the reason people care why its nerfed is because if they nerf everything that people (and by people I mean like one or two loud mouth whiners) QQ about then more ******* will make QQ posts on the forum about every ability, and eventually people will be running around using autoatks only rooted in place so nobody can run anywhere. Not to mention it would gimp the 31 point talents, and if the abilities were moved up the tree it would gimp the sorc lightning leveling spec.

[Bloodtau]

Bump this to the front page. Something HAS to be done about them.

[Tumri]

Firstly nobody agreed it was overpowered, you and some fanboy did. We all say to get that one extra utility that your so called OP spec has you gimp yourself.

 

In a pvp situation you actually lose more, because the 30% surge reduction on one of your two main mobile damage dealers is a huge reduction in damage. You also lose the ability to use your better forms of CC by giving them a max resolve bar for a tiny 3 second unpredictable mez that breaks whenever you do damage.

 

And the reason people care why its nerfed is because if they nerf everything that people (and by people I mean like one or two loud mouth whiners) QQ about then more ******* will make QQ posts on the forum about every ability, and eventually people will be running around using autoatks only rooted in place so nobody can run anywhere. Not to mention it would gimp the 31 point talents, and if the abilities were moved up the tree it would gimp the sorc lightning leveling spec.

 

1. Go back a few pages. When asked how excessive CC was balanced the collective Sorc defense basically said "They gimp themselves to gain the CC" and "They need it to counteract their squishyness".

 

2. Both the "gimp themselves" and the "squishy" part were disproven. Sorcerers are one of the sturdiest classes in the game due to bubble. Even you agreed that the bubble and/or double bubble at the very least puts them on par with the more tanky DPS. The "gimp themselves" part was disproven by the fact that they lose barely any DPS at all for the enormous amount of CC. You lose out on DoT crits. DoT crits aren't where the majority of your damage will be coming from in a PvP scenario. A smart Sorcerer won't even put up DoTs unless he's confident that he won't need his "break on damage" CCs to last their full duration.

 

3. This circular argument has been going on and on despite proof being put on the original post. Honestly I don't understand how you can take yourselves seriously when you argue "they're squishy" and then collectively back off after proof is shown and then argue "they gimp themselves to get the cc" only to go back to the "they're squishy" defense when you're proven wrong again.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Tumri

[Guioki]

"Gimp themselves" doesn't make it OP, how do you read people saying its OP by saying its actually a useless spec? Using theoretical/paper doll figures doesn't disprove anything. In a typical fight you will always use your instas, and rarely the spell that roots you into place, so more damage on your instas will be a huge increase to REAL damage in pvp. You keep saying the 30% only affects dot crits, the 30% is most important on death field. Death field which isnt affected by the enemy armor. In a game where you spend most of your time running away, and in most fights you will use at least 2 death fields, it becomes far more useful then a 3 second mez having increased damage on it.

 

In fact by not using dots at all, in hopes to mez the enemy for 3 seconds, your gimping your damage a huge amount, the knockback snare and sprint are for meelee range targets.

 

My main argument is, most classes have more CC then they can even use, your so called OP spec has wastage and your trying to gimp a class's utilities that are used in other builds by making a theoretically "OP" spec that nobody even uses because its garbage in reality but looks good on paper.

[Baalazar]

There are issues with Sorcerers having too much CC, however Static Shield/Force Armor only shields for 2.5k to 3.5k (depending on power on gear and talents).

 

Sorcs are getting a nerf in patch 1.2 that only allows one hasted Lightning attack.

 

Could you explain this or point to a post that has more info on this?

[Tumri]

"Gimp themselves" doesn't make it OP, how do you read people saying its OP by saying its actually a useless spec? Using theoretical/paper doll figures doesn't disprove anything. In a typical fight you will always use your instas, and rarely the spell that roots you into place, so more damage on your instas will be a huge increase to REAL damage in pvp. You keep saying the 30% only affects dot crits, the 30% is most important on death field. Death field which isnt affected by the enemy armor. In a game where you spend most of your time running away, and in most fights you will use at least 2 death fields, it becomes far more useful then a 3 second mez having increased damage on it.

 

In fact by not using dots at all, in hopes to mez the enemy for 3 seconds, your gimping your damage a huge amount, the knockback snare and sprint are for meelee range targets.

 

My main argument is, most classes have more CC then they can even use, your so called OP spec has wastage and your trying to gimp a class's utilities that are used in other builds by making a theoretically "OP" spec that nobody even uses because its garbage in reality but looks good on paper.

 

Again this circular reasoning is tiring. If the spec is gimped why do you care if it's nerfed? From my perspective I see someone basically saying "DON'T NERF MY PRECIOUSSS"[in a Golum voice].

Edited February 21, 2012 by Tumri

[Schwarzwald]

I have yet to play against a Sorc/Sage who can kill me.

 

Their CC isn't OP and I only really hear these complaints from classes who do not have built in management of those abilities.

 

So really it boils down to a majority of the player base wanting their class to do things the class wasn't intended for and the fact that a vast majority of players in this game are back-peddling, keyboard turning, ability clickers who do not know how to play their class.

[savionen]

Wow sorcs doing 400k damage 200k healing and 100k protection? so weve gone from the 31/31/31 sorc to the 31/31/31 sorc/assassin hybrid. They dont have the most utility, they only have the most obvious CC.

 

Already said I was wrong on the Protection part.

 

On the rest, I've had dozens of games with sorcerers that do 250k-500k damage and 250-500k healing at the same time. Since bubble adds to healing, it's definitely possible. Toss out a bubble every 4.5 seconds all over the place while fighting. Toss 30 bubbles out over 15 minutes on yourself and others, and heal yourself a little when you're LoSing and that's already in the neighborhood of 200k.

 

Because of bubble you don't need to really spec into the heal tree to get much healing. Which is really, half the problem with Sorcerers right now.

Edited February 21, 2012 by savionen

[kweassa]

Again this circular reasoning is tiring. If the spec is gimped why do you care if it's nerfed? From my perspective I see someone basically saying "DON'T NERF MY PRECIOUSSS"[in a Golum voice].

 

Thankfully, from the perspective of the rest of us, we see some basically saying "whine whine whine whine sage whine sorc whine whine CC whine whine whine damage qq qq qq qq need nerf."

 

So I think we can call it even.

Edited February 21, 2012 by kweassa