The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Keldaur]

I think it's very important to note that original thread keeps changing to reflect the OP's heavy agenda and biased viewing. For example the screen shot that he provided which I listed below show him "out dpsing" by a wide gap the same classes that he claims are over powered. Go back to the orginal thread and see if you can find this screen shot.

 

https://imgur.com/a/Kk2Fd#0

 

You cannot he removed it. I think it takes an impact on his augment. That's why he removed it. Hard to get a nerf on ANOTHER class, when you show a screen shot of yourself as top dps in HuttBall. Again, this is not slander. I'm making a note of his questionable actions and constants changing the original page to influence you to his way of thinking.

 

Also when he says this isn't Dragon ball Z in all caps, it's now been changed to a link where a fusion dragon ball Z is.

 

Are you for real ?

 

Are you throwing a whole constructive post for one screenshot outdps'in newbs ?

 

What kind of thinking is that ?

[justcallmetarzan]

Guioki is correct - the 20/21 build is based entirely on being able to escape.

 

Tumri's response about survivability talents is a clear slippery slope fallacy. Obviously some survivability is good, but taking ALL of it in a 20/21 is bad.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Good to know. I was previously told by another Sorcerer that the "bursty" spec sacrificed sustained DPS. That's probably the most effective spec in that case since you get all of the CC while not relying as much on DoTs that could break the mezz effects. I'll edit my OP to get rid of the 0/20/21 spec since that appears to be trash now(I underestimated some talents since it's just a build I threw together based on what Sorcs on my server were using) and add in the two most effective specs.

 

Since you argue that the CC provided by the CC heavy specs is worthless I ask you this:

 

Why do you care if the CC heavy hybrid option is removed?

 

If the build is truly bad then obviously it wouldn't hurt Sorcerers to remove that option.

 

And this post. I think it proves that he has been de-bunked several times. In fact in his rare posting he admitted he is incorrect about a build. However he covers that by using the term "Under estimated"

 

Looking to note that he says "He was told by another sorc that was bur sty spec" He's not informed enough or qualified in my honest viewing to at least what build "suppose to do most damage" it's just wild debating.

 

However the fact he edited the orginal thread, several times. Quoting the people who side with his argument and ignoring those against it. Show's how heavily biased he is.

 

The screen shot show's him as TOP DPS. Yet he's trying to NERF another class. I think that's more then valid to show a pattern of a one side arugment. He's not interested in any feedback expect how to "remove backlash" this entire thread is devoted to that.

[Tsubodia]

Are you for real ?

 

Are you throwing a whole constructive post for one screenshot outdps'in newbs ?

 

What kind of thinking is that ?

 

the reason i cant take it serious is this

 

I am going to start allowing a general discussion on Sorcerers and ways to tune them down in order to have them be balanced with the other ACs. I will be leaving my original post intact below for those that wish to read it but I'd rather not limit discussion to just my own ideas because of moderators redirecting other Sorcerer nerf/rebalancing threads here

 

"balanced with other ACs"

 

one possible hybrid build being cc heavy isnt a reason to nerf a whole AC and every constructive post made seems to get argued against. i could make a list of many abilities that are ridiculusly OP in game atm but its two months old and the devs are the ones with the figures. not us.

 

i could go in depth into the newly updated first post but it will likely just be ignored like all other posts which work into whats been posted

[Tumri]

Guioki is correct - the 20/21 build is based entirely on being able to escape.

 

Tumri's response about survivability talents is a clear slippery slope fallacy. Obviously some survivability is good, but taking ALL of it in a 20/21 is bad.

 

Taking all of it costs you minimal sustained DPS. We're not talking about some gimped spec that does no damage. We're talking about a spec that has all the CC while having respectable damage. The DPS loss is worth about 1-2 seconds in a single target 1 minute fight(Which is longer than any realistic PvP battle).

[Tumri]

And this post. I think it proves that he has been de-bunked several times. In fact in his rare posting he admitted he is incorrect about a build. However he covers that by using the term "Under estimated"

 

Looking to note that he says "He was told by another sorc that was bur sty spec" He's not informed enough or qualified in my honest viewing to at least what build "suppose to do most damage" it's just wild debating.

 

However the fact he edited the orginal thread, several times. Quoting the people who side with his argument and ignoring those against it. Show's how heavily biased he is.

 

The screen shot show's him as TOP DPS. Yet he's trying to NERF another class. I think that's more then valid to show a pattern of a one side arugment. He's not interested in any feedback expect how to "remove backlash" this entire thread is devoted to that.

 

1. I edited the OP to include that spec because someone asked for it to be included. I didn't do all the research surrounding the spec but I certainly didn't make any claims regarding it's viability before today. I've also edited the OP to correct myself whenever anyone gave solid proof against any of my arguments. The original thread(unedited) had a few snippets about other talents. Sorcerers made good arguments to prove that those talents were fine and as a result I removed anything related to them. If anyone's biased it's you for totally ignoring this fact.

 

2. I quoted people that proposed any suggestions to tone down the CC heavy hybrid specs. One of them is a Sorcerer himself and he definitely didn't support my original argument but did support the argument against CC heavy hybrid specs. When he and others provided evidence to show the other talents that I originally campaigned against were fine I changed my stance.

 

3. My screenshots show that PUG warzones have a lot of people that are absolutely horrendous at the game. That is all.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

1. I edited the OP to include that spec because someone asked for it to be included. I didn't do all the research surrounding the spec but I certainly didn't make any claims regarding it's viability before today. I've also edited the OP to correct myself whenever anyone gave solid proof against any of my arguments. The original thread(unedited) had a few snippets about other talents. Sorcerers made good arguments to prove that those talents were fine and as a result I removed anything related to them. If anyone's biased it's you for totally ignoring this fact.

 

2. I quoted people that proposed any suggestions to tone down the CC heavy hybrid specs. One of them is a Sorcerer himself and he definitely didn't support my original argument but did support the argument against CC heavy hybrid specs. When he and others provided evidence to show the other talents that I originally campaigned against were fine I changed my stance.

 

3. My screenshots show that PUG warzones have a lot of people that are absolutely horrendous at the game. That is all.

 

Why include your screen shot in the FIRST place unless you thought it mattered? in fact you were trying to back up an arugment that you didn't "suck" at the game by providing proof. Now you are flip flopping to say "I removed it because the people in the game sucked and it doesn't show anything"

 

Secondly, you quoted people who want to nerf/change the spec and ignoring those against doing that. It's clear this is not a general discussion about it. This is a rambling from a lone person who has bumped his own thread several times.

 

A person who has his OWN THREAD in his SIGNATURE. Just show's you this is not a casual debate more like an obsession. The truth of the matter is. The class is FINE, and working as intended and this is a campaign to fix something that's NOT broken.

 

I for one will not continue to post and contribute to this thread which is charged by a heavily biased warrior who still manages to get "10 medals in HuttBall" over classes he's trying to say are over powered.

[Keldaur]

one possible hybrid build being cc heavy isnt a reason to nerf a whole AC and every constructive post made seems to get argued against. i could make a list of many abilities that are ridiculusly OP in game atm but its two months old and the devs are the ones with the figures. not us.

 

i could go in depth into the newly updated first post but it will likely just be ignored like all other posts which work into whats been posted

 

It actually is, if the damage is also good. It wouldn't nerf the whole AC, it would nerf that spec. There's no reason to argue to don't move blackslash or barrage to t6 (one of them but not both, at last).

 

Most classes can't even think about going hybrid, and you got a surplus of good talents on low tiers which make you able to EVEN debate what hybrid build is good of a lot of them. Don't think that's some indicator ? Or every class get more low tier talents that awesome, or you get sucked up with the rest and get some of your great talents up to higher tiers. That's the real thing.

[Tumri]

The truth of the matter is. The class is FINE, and working as intended and this is a campaign to fix something that's NOT broken.

 

According to you.

 

@Your bits about Me - I'm done with the repetitive arguments about my personal skill/screenshots. People have made the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT you're making now. If you're too lazy to read through the previous arguments then I'm not going to dignify your repetitive argument with any further responses. This thread has gone in circles too many times.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Tumri

[Tsubodia]

It actually is, if the damage is also good. It wouldn't nerf the whole AC, it would nerf that spec. There's no reason to argue to don't move blackslash or barrage to t6 (one of them but not both, at last).

 

Most classes can't even think about going hybrid, and you got a surplus of good talents on low tiers which make you able to EVEN debate what hybrid build is good of a lot of them. Don't think that's some indicator ? Or every class get more low tier talents that awesome, or you get sucked up with the rest and get some of your great talents up to higher tiers. That's the real thing.

 

 

then buff the 31point specs which are horrible. Thats the issue. hybrids are the only good builds for dps sorcs. As has been said in the thread a million times backlash is only effective against certain classes. Mainly warriors and OPs which is why the op is crying so hard and i guess your an OP too.

 

Taking a full cc spec does not necessarily make a good build for warzones for a multitude of already mentioned reasons in the thread.

 

Most other Classes ACs have good or relativley good 31point builds. Sorcs dont. the fact a hybrid spec is better than said 31point builds even in a flat out pve dps situation says it all. Moving certain survival talents into higher tiers not only destroys every viable pvp spec but also makes the class very weak unless they play a specific build. Which shouldnt be the case. All that will happen in that situation is that specific build will be damage buffed heavily to compensate for the loss resulting in more qq from people like the OP.

 

The damage of a full cc spect sorc is not that good. is subpar at best and relies on the sorc being able to run away fast and heal or dps from a large gap. mechanisms that are easily prevented in many ways. BUT as always the OP is STILL arguing that sorcs should be nerfed rather than roots being put onto the resolve bar.. but wait. then that would affect hum aswell with his multiple *********** force charges so he wont want that.

 

a lot of ACs have knockbacks which emcompase either a root or a slow. warriors themself have force push which has a knockdown animation. Backlash which is his main qq point because it affects HIS class in pvp already tier 4 and for a sorc to reach it they drop a lot of damage modification talents so your losing 8-10% damage output from dots. the one thing a madness build sorc needs to kill. It might not look a lot but an 8% damage drop can makea huge difference when you have ppl bashing on your head and your trying to kill someone.

 

oh fyi.. my other guilds premade with the cc build sorc in.. my group just destoyed them. you know why? we locked the sorc out of the game. not exactly hard to do.

[Tumri]

"balanced with other ACs"

 

one possible hybrid build being cc heavy isnt a reason to nerf a whole AC and every constructive post made seems to get argued against. i could make a list of many abilities that are ridiculusly OP in game atm but its two months old and the devs are the ones with the figures. not us.

 

i could go in depth into the newly updated first post but it will likely just be ignored like all other posts which work into whats been posted

 

I'm not asking for a nerf to the AC. I'm asking for certain talents to be moved around. I'm also asking for Backlash to not be a 3 second CC on a 4.5s CD.

 

Talents being moved would ONLY effect the ONE SPECIFIC TYPE OF SPEC that's overpowered. The AC as a whole would be left completely unharmed.

[Shredbull]

First of all, kudos on whining about a well balanced class.

 

Secondly, stop reviving this dead thread, and learn to play your class. You're a marauder for gods sake, the worst nightmare of any sorcerer. A marauder with crafted gear can faceroll a rank 60+ sorcerer at any given time.

 

Seriously, pull your head out of the sand, and learn how to play your class properly. Don't make me start on how insanely OP marauders are. Leap, stun, 5.5k 5.5k, stun, 4k, dead sorcerer.

 

Edit : For your information, I'm not making these numbers up. You should roll a sorcerer, and try to 1v1 a sentinel, marauder, jugg or guardian. You'll end up crying and find yourself making threads on how OP they are. Or at least thats what I assume you do all the time considering the time and effort you put into whining rather than mastering one of the strongest classes.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Shredbull

[Tsubodia]

I'm not asking for a nerf to the AC. I'm asking for certain talents to be moved around. I'm also asking for Backlash to not be a 3 second CC on a 4.5s CD.

 

Talents being moved would ONLY effect the ONE SPECIFIC TYPE OF SPEC that's overpowered. The AC as a whole would be left completely unharmed.

 

yet that "one specific type of spec" doesnt do that much damage and when pressured has to become mobile to stay alive. its built solely around surviving. Yes it can be anoying BUT it CAN easily be locked out of the game as ive just done to a guildy of mine.

 

i also dont get you 4.5seconds cd idea here or are you referring to spam bubbling other players? in which case your damage output is heavily dropped due to playing utility mode and in itself can cause heavy issues if not done correctly due to resolve filling up very fast.

 

At this point in the gaame things that should be higher priority to change are issues with resolve being a fail and the fact roots don't work with it.

 

 

The big thing and the very big thing people also forget here. is these two talents (bindings and backlash) are pretty important for sorc leveling. Survivability of the class i low and when leveling its not always an option to turn your *** and run with many mobs about. Changing tier of talent of such could just completely destroy any sort of moderatly ok leveling experience of a sorc as it is already heavily dependant on keeping companions geared as it is.

 

Personally i couldnt care for the cc spec. i dont use it as its not my role. my role is to get attention and force ppl to atack me or die so my team mates can get objectives. Criplling the main utility based play of the spec just breaks it, especially for lightning which is already weak as it is and would require a damage buff to compensate.

 

oh you can also have backlash not stunning when force charge doesn't root AND interupt casts and you dont just **** off and vanish with 1k hp left to re open into another cc

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tsubodia

[Rennno]

First of all, kudos on whining about a well balanced class.

 

Secondly, stop reviving this dead thread, and learn to play your class. You're a marauder for gods sake, the worst nightmare of any sorcerer. A marauder with crafted gear can faceroll a rank 60+ sorcerer at any given time.

 

Seriously, pull your head out of the sand, and learn how to play your class properly. Don't make me start on how insanely OP marauders are. Leap, stun, 5.5k 5.5k, stun, 4k, dead sorcerer.

 

Edit : For your information, I'm not making these numbers up. You should roll a sorcerer, and try to 1v1 a sentinel, marauder, jugg or guardian. You'll end up crying and find yourself making threads on how OP they are. Or at least thats what I assume you do all the time considering the time and effort you put into whining rather than mastering one of the strongest classes.

 

I agree. I usually can get away from OPS/snips sneaking up on me . Yet recently I faced a we'll play/geared marauder and he basically man handled me. I never even had an opportunity to get off anything. There isn't many toons that get killed by a single player in 2-3 sec like a sorc. I think the class is very balance yet can seem to be a bit OP if we'll played.

[Keldaur]

then buff the 31point specs which are horrible. Thats the issue. hybrids are the only good builds for dps sorcs. As has been said in the thread a million times backlash is only effective against certain classes. Mainly warriors and OPs which is why the op is crying so hard and i guess your an OP too.

 

Buffing ? They aren't horrible, they are just subpar compared to what you can get on low tiers via hybrid, like i said, a surplus of great talents which belong on higher tiers. Your thinking is flawed man, no offense intended.

 

Blackslash is effective to any class as a tool, and it ignores resolve (also you forgot to mention gunslinger so they can't get into cover).

[Tsubodia]

Buffing ? They aren't horrible, they are just subpar compared to what you can get on low tiers via hybrid, like i said, a surplus of great talents which belong on higher tiers. Your thinking is flawed man, no offense intended.

 

Blackslash is effective to any class as a tool, and it ignores resolve (also you forgot to mention gunslinger so they can't get into cover).

 

 

bold part = fix resolve then. dont start messing with a class because resolve is crap/not working properly

 

and they are horrible. high end 31point talents are weak for sorcs and for madness its pathetic. "surplus of great talents" again your looking at cc. try looking at flat out damage output instead. if you force ppl into 31 point builds the output drops aswell as the survival making the whole AC weaker.

 

they are also subpar compared to all other 31point dps specs in game. there is a reason why near all dps sorcs raid pve in hybrid builds. (a basic 3 point shift into lightning from madness)

 

also doesnt help that alacrity doesnt work properly atm.

[Keldaur]

bold part = fix resolve then. dont start messing with a class because resolve is crap/not working properly

 

and they are horrible. high end 31point talents are weak for sorcs and for madness its pathetic. "surplus of great talents" again your looking at cc. try looking at flat out damage output instead. if you force ppl into 31 point builds the output drops aswell as the survival making the whole AC weaker.

 

they are also subpar compared to all other 31point dps specs in game. there is a reason why near all dps sorcs raid pve in hybrid builds. (a basic 3 point shift into lightning from madness)

 

also doesnt help that alacrity doesnt work properly atm.

 

No, i am looking at everything (btw, when i said blackslash, i meant bindings, too used with the sage ;p).

 

I am looking at wrath, at madness, at electric bindings, at barrage, at chain lighting, at lightning barrier, at haunted dreams, etc... there are hell of talents reacheable via hybrid getting making you able to get more burst, more substained and more cc than speccing full into anything.

 

And about they are "subpar" compare it to saboteur/sharpshooter 31 talent, at the ****** combat 31 talent which you must take just to make the spec work (well guess what, it doesn't, the spec sucks), that doesn't force those classes to go full hybrid, neither they have the options to get a man's dream of tools that way, they have to decide and choose where they lose on their gameplay. You just have to think if one CC more is better than more surge, or if you want a better aoe burst.

 

If you didn't have all those talents down there, i would pretty sure you would love your 31 point talents (well, except the aoe heal for pvp)

[Tumri]

We've already had the "fix resolve instead" discussion. It's both stupid and unreasonable to talk about class balance with future potential MAJOR game changing mechanics. I also suggest buffing Thundering Blast if they nerf Wrath to kill hybrids. I'm being more reasonable than you're giving me credit for. Ever since the thread was made I've been giving ground to Sorcerers to be more reasonable with my requests. There is a point when you cannot give more ground because you would be leaving them in an overpowered state. If someone can make a solid argument that suggests otherwise I will once again edit the OP to reflect said argument's conclusion.

[Tsubodia]

No, i am looking at everything (btw, when i said blackslash, i meant bindings, too used with the sage ;p).

 

I am looking at wrath, at madness, at electric bindings, at barrage, at chain lighting, at lightning barrier, at haunted dreams, etc... there are hell of talents reacheable via hybrid getting making you able to get more burst, more substained and more cc than speccing full into anything.

 

And about they are "subpar" compare it to saboteur/sharpshooter 31 talent, at the ****** combat 31 talent which you must take just to make the spec work (well guess what, it doesn't, the spec sucks), that doesn't force those classes to go full hybrid, neither they have the options to get a man's dream of tools that way, they have to decide and choose where they lose on their gameplay. You just have to think if one CC more is better than more surge, or if you want a better aoe burst.

 

If you didn't have all those talents down there, i would pretty sure you would love your 31 point talents (well, except the aoe heal for pvp)

 

 

as ive said plenty of times. i dont play a 20/21 build. i play a 13/28 high output dps build so i know what im on about when it comes to damage. the 31 point builds do not come close to the hybrid for dps output. changing the trees round will do nothing but weaken them further (for damage output.. important part) if those talents where not down ther in the current state the specs would be 100% broken. Lightning would be forced to play cc only and madness would be massivly damage gimped and super static by having a 3second fl channel constntley.

 

moving cc talents up the lightning tree so madness hybrids cant reach them would mean that madness would need a buff to survivability as it would have very little, and lightning would need a boost to damage as it would also be lacking.

 

also at present sorcs do already have to chose if they want cc or burst/dps as to get bindings and backlash requires a shift of 7 points between specs already.

[Tsubodia]

We've already had the "fix resolve instead" discussion. It's both stupid and unreasonable to talk about class balance with future potential MAJOR game changing mechanics. I also suggest buffing Thundering Blast if they nerf Wrath to kill hybrids. I'm being more reasonable than you're giving me credit for. Ever since the thread was made I've been giving ground to Sorcerers to be more reasonable with my requests. There is a point when you cannot give more ground because you would be leaving them in an overpowered state. If someone can make a solid argument that suggests otherwise I will once again edit the OP to reflect said argument's conclusion.

 

 

nerfing wrath would break madness btw. madness relies on CL output to keep up dps values in pve aswell as pvp (even sinlge target pvp). removeal of the 20% dmg boost or changing it to only allow CrushD would massivly hamper madness playstyle and really hurt their output.

 

its also not stupid or unreasonable to talk about resolve being fixed. as one fix to resolve fixes the issue anyway without damaging the current specs. Blinds AND roots should both be on resolve bar. why there are not is stupid as is but when the issue is very plan to see a coding change to reslove to work propelry is a much more sensible solution that trying to rework and rebuild two whole talent trees. And yes you have to take into account that hiting the talent tiers in lightning you also affect madness which will also need adjustments

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tsubodia

[Tumri]

nerfing wrath would break madness btw. madness relies on CL output to keep up dps values in pve aswell as pvp (even sinlge target pvp). removeal of the 20% dmg boost or changing it to only allow CrushD would massivly hamper madness playstyle and really hurt their output.

 

its also not stupid or unreasonable to talk about resolve being fixed. as one fix to resolve fixes the issue anyway without damaging the current specs. Blinds AND roots should both be on resolve bar. why there are not is stupid as is but when the issue is very plan to see a coding change to reslove to work propelry is a much more sensible solution that trying to rework and rebuild two whole talent trees. And yes you have to take into account that hiting the talent tiers in lightning you also affect madness which will also need adjustments

 

Madness is ~50 DPS behind the Wrath/CL build and the playstyle you're referring to isn't Madness it's Hybrid but that's beside the point. If you play a 13/28 build my suggest wouldn't effect you in the slightest. The Wrath change I wrote about was a "Nuclear Option" if Bioware deemed it too complicated to move the CC talents higher up the tree and fix Backlash so it's not stupidly so broken(Read the OP so you know what it currently does, it's beyond broken). Blinds are on the resolve system but a Sorcerer can effectively keep a group CC'd for far too long regardless. A Backlash CC fills about 2 bars of resolve at most.

 

The resolve system being changes would effect the entire game. We have no information to suggest a resolve change is coming any time soon if at all. It's unreasonable to balance around non-existent game mechanics. What if I said that Sorcerers shouldn't have a 30m range because a future update might make all other ranged DPS have a 15m range? That would be nonsense right? The game doesn't function that way yet right? Exactly. It's the same with the "WHAT IF RESOLVE ______________" posts.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Tumri

[Guioki]

Taking all of it costs you minimal sustained DPS. We're not talking about some gimped spec that does no damage. We're talking about a spec that has all the CC while having respectable damage. The DPS loss is worth about 1-2 seconds in a single target 1 minute fight(Which is longer than any realistic PvP battle).

 

Sorry wasn't going to but I had to... so you are throwing out 30% higher damage for a mez that helps fill a resolve bar, and you cant even dps through, basically all you are doing is extending the length of the fight without increasing the damage you can do during this time and making it harder to use your better forms of cc against your target. Sounds like a poor choice.

[Guioki]

Madness is ~50 DPS behind the Wrath/CL build and the playstyle you're referring to isn't Madness it's Hybrid but that's beside the point. If you play a 13/28 build my suggest wouldn't effect you in the slightest. The Wrath change I wrote about was a "Nuclear Option" if Bioware deemed it too complicated to move the CC talents higher up the tree and fix Backlash so it's not stupidly so broken(Read the OP so you know what it currently does, it's beyond broken). Blinds are on the resolve system but a Sorcerer can effectively keep a group CC'd for far too long regardless. A Backlash CC fills about 2 bars of resolve at most.

 

The resolve system being changes would effect the entire game. We have no information to suggest a resolve change is coming any time soon if at all. It's unreasonable to balance around non-existent game mechanics. What if I said that Sorcerers shouldn't have a 30m range because a future update might make all other ranged DPS have a 15m range? That would be nonsense right? The game doesn't function that way yet right? Exactly. It's the same with the "WHAT IF RESOLVE ______________" posts.

 

Dude mez's fill bars at the same speed, your mez which is 8 seconds fills a bar the same as 2 and a half 3 second sorc mez's would. This isnt some theoretical "if resolve worked or was changed" thing, its how it is.

 

My arguments are... that whole build your crying about is actually the WORST build, and all other builds are balanced. Now you've branched out from backlash being too op and gone to wrath is now OP. Wrath is not OP it is in line with other classes talents in the same tier and in some cases worse. 20% damage on one spell making that one spell instacast which can still do less damage then a tracer missile even after the 20% bonus. And to get this proc we have to channel a 3 second spell that can easily be interrupted, and after that we only have shock and death field, every other spell has a cast time.

 

I don't see what the problem is, sorcs are the easiest AC to fully shut down.

[Tumri]

Dude mez's fill bars at the same speed, your mez which is 8 seconds fills a bar the same as 2 and a half 3 second sorc mez's would. This isnt some theoretical "if resolve worked or was changed" thing, its how it is.

 

My arguments are... that whole build your crying about is actually the WORST build, and all other builds are balanced. Now you've branched out from backlash being too op and gone to wrath is now OP. Wrath is not OP it is in line with other classes talents in the same tier and in some cases worse. 20% damage on one spell making that one spell instacast which can still do less damage then a tracer missile even after the 20% bonus. And to get this proc we have to channel a 3 second spell that can easily be interrupted, and after that we only have shock and death field, every other spell has a cast time.

 

I don't see what the problem is, sorcs are the easiest AC to fully shut down.

 

Read my post FULLY. Read the OP as well. I said getting rid of hybrid Wrath/CL builds was the "Nuclear Option". It's not what I'm suggesting. Also if it's a terrible build then why do you care if they lose access to the CC?

[oblongship]

Last Updated - 2/18-12

 

Apparently the forum mods are redirecting other threads regarding Sorcerer balance here.

 

I am going to start allowing a general discussion

 

[/color]

 

You are going to start allowing? Are you a mod? No...You won't allow anything the only thing you will do is flag this post...

 

As far as sorc/sage CC in pvp it really needs to be toned down....AoE knock with root, stun, slow, lift...it's far to much.