The reason Sorcerer/Sage CC is OP in PvP

[Aidank]

4.) And why are the mezz of a Sorc op and the mezz of other classes not?

Because sorcs have two mezzes, one is on passive bubble breaks, they're both instant, one stuns if it's broken, and they've got 30 meter range?

5.) Conviently leaving out that Consumption/Noble Sacrifice have a terrible HP/Force ratio plus killing your natural regen AND yourself. I wonder why.

You get 50 focus back at the cost of 15% of your health. that's hardly terrible.

6.) Sorceres have the worst survivabilty if they are caught flat footed. The shield does close to nothing if you are stunned and cannot kite any class with more mitigation can survive that much better.

What the hell are you talking about. Why don't you start fights with it up already?

 

Two, it's got a 3 second mezz when it breaks, meaning that sorcerers are the class in the game least effected by stuns, you can be stunned and they can't dps you for the duration of the stun because your bubble broke.

 

But of course it is convinent to assume Sorc always gets away and enemies never catch up or in other words you construct best case for Sorc and worst Sorc's for his enemies just to make it appear you had any sort of an argument.

Hipocrite.

you mispelled hypocrite, and a good sorcerer can kite just about any class bar guardians almost indefinitely. And even then, if you're bad and do end up in melee range, your DPS hardly even drops. Complaining about being unable to kite people is a l2p issue.

7.) I compared the Sorc to those who do get a Dispel and it is two other ACs who get it. Furthermore this is a team game and any good team will capitalize on Mercs/Scoundrels having a better Dispel than Sorc/Sage. Likewise Static Barrier/Force Armor are castable on others so YOU benefit just as much from it. Unless you run pug only but that is your problem if you do not play this as a group game but 1 vs rest of the enemy pug.

 

Are you actually trying to argue that other classes are better than sorcs because a sorc's bubble makes them overpowered?

[Vales]

You didn't prove anything, I posted all the numbers, it's practically impossible to go OOF in under 30 seconds unless you're playing absolutely terribly.

 

And even then, unless you're playing against a annhi marauder or pyrotech you'll still be able to spam FL at least 1/2 the time because lockouts are 1/2 the length of the interrupt cooldown.

 

Interrupts are a joke in this game.

Stop being bad and don't spam force lightning on people in melee range? Problem solved?

 

Kiting on a sorcerer isn't difficult, getting off force lightning isn't a problem, even when you are being focused.

 

 

And EVEN THEN, if you're having this big of a problem getting FL off, which is a problem nobody else is having by the way, have you ever once considered maybe fake casting?

You need to be spamming instants non stop for over 30 seconds to run out of force in this game, if you're having force problems you're absolutely terrible. I'm not sure what to tell you past that, a dps sorcerer in this game shouldn't be having any force problems outside of rare situations like extremely long fights where you don't get a chance to regen.

 

rolling dots, project on a 6 sec cd, if they've already wasted their interrupt you can even hardcast crushing darkness & Lightning strike / chain lightning. Doing damage while you're locked out of force lightning isn't a problem in this game.

A. No, to burst that hard pretty much every class has to rely a lot more on procs and setups. one force lightning to get the instant proc and then popping an adrenal hardly constitutes a lot of setup.

 

B. I never said sorcerers had the best burst in the game, they don't, their burst isn't what's overpowered, but their burst is still respectable .

 

1.) You do not use TK Throw/Lightning while you are trained period. The more you spout this rubbish the less I believe you play a Sorc/Sage.

You go oof faster than 30 seconds if properly trained.

 

2.) Interupts are not a joke people just do not know which are the important spells to lockout most of the time or are bad at timing.

Certainly better than WoW in which made some classes being completly shutdown for up to 10 seconds depending on patch paladins in Classic getting countered by mages CS being a prime example here.

How was that even remotly fair?

So actually Interupts just take more skill/Knowledge in this game compared to other games where it was nearly a brain dead decision and only hinged upon reflexes.

 

3.) Nonsense far too much CC and interupts which most classes get even to get TK Throw off against decent opponents. Of course it is easy when there are tons of bads around. And again the damage of the spell is pathetic without Psychic Projection Procc.

Kiting is of course not too hard since the class relies on it? If Kiting was close to impossible you could throw Sorc/Sage into the next trash can.

 

4.) Again you miss the point. Crushing Darkness is a 2 second cast which only deals a modicum damage, gives no force back and does procc nothing.

So what you want is making casters completely useless. Why not ask for some more silences and anti force/tech damage abilities. Oh wait why not give all the other classes more immunity abilties while we are at it?

 

5.) Fake casting? You mean what I did on my mage already in classic when everybody after watching Vurtne thought it was a keen invention? Yes I do?

What does that have anything to do with the problem that good players will reduce the amount of TK Throw / Lightning to a minimum?

 

6.) I doubt you play that class seeing how you exaggerate grossly.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Vales

[GrandMike]

7.) I compared the Sorc to those who do get a Dispel and it is two other ACs who get it. Furthermore this is a team game and any good team will capitalize on Mercs/Scoundrels having a better Dispel than Sorc/Sage. Likewise Static Barrier/Force Armor are castable on others so YOU benefit just as much from it. Unless you run pug only but that is your problem if you do not play this as a group game but 1 vs rest of the enemy pug.

 

You are doing it wrong, this thread is about making sorc free kill for everyone instead of quite a few classes it is now. And about baddies having problem with good sorcs. And big numbers that can be achieved when playing agains terribads.

 

snip

 

Yeeeah, well i played every class to level 10 and all are EZ mode.

Edited February 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[Vales]

Really we are still arguing about this?

 

Sorc(and sage) is the LOL EZ mode class of this game.

 

I don't think we need to nerf them, because if you play one you need the handicap.

 

Personally i think its a good idea to have a handicap class. Its like gear, got to give lesser skilled people a sense of "power" so they keep re-subing. Problem is skilled people still play them and then they are OP as hell. If you are skilled you should shelve your Sorc in interest of game balance, and heck if your that skilled why are you so insecure to play the EZ mode class? Play something harder.

 

 

I played one till like level 22. It was so easy I couldn't bring myself to play it any longer. I play PvP to have a challenge, and the sorc was just absurdly easy. Kiting is soooo easy against melee..

 

At 50 they are no different. In particular if you get more that 2-3 of them together they are tougher than tank/healer combos. An army of just sorcs would destroy any other mix of class combos, guaranteed.

 

Cool story bro. Need a pat on your back? Does it make you feel better calling other players basically reta.rds because you are too terrible to beat the class and your ego is too fragile so you need to boost it by calling other players names?

It was easy at level 22? Which class is not easy to play? Answer is none, all are easy to play. Especially at that level.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Vales

[Aidank]

1.) You do not use TK Throw/Lightning while you are trained period. The more you spout this rubbish the less I believe you play a Sorc/Sage.

You go oof faster than 30 seconds if properly trained.

Well because you said so, I guess that disproves all the facts I posted yesterday about focus regen. Darn.

 

Second, Why can't you? My scoundrel's interrupt is a 8 second cd, lockout is 4 seconds. If you're so bad at kiting just stand there and use force lightning when the lockout is up, there's nothing stopping you seeing as my opener whitebars you.

 

2.) Interupts are not a joke people just do not know which are the important spells to lockout most of the time or are **** at timing.

The only spell you can really interrupt off a sorcerer is force lightning...

Certainly better than WoW in which made some classes being completly shutdown for up to 10 seconds depending on patch paladins in Classic getting countered by mages CS being a prime example here.

No, interrupts in wow forced people to fakecast, something i've never seen done in this game. And ranged classes were hardly gimped in wow either, wow's interrupt system was much better

How was that even remotly fair?

Because it penalized bad players

So actually Interupts just take more skill/Knowledge in this game compared to other games where it was nearly a brain dead decision and only hinged upon reflexes.

Yep, because it's such a big decision trying to interrupt the 1 spell you can interrupt

 

.) Nonsense far too much CC and interupts which most classes get even to get TK Throw off against decent opponents. Of course it is easy when there are tons of bads around. And again the damage of the spell is pathetic without Psychic Projection Procc.

Kiting is of course not too hard since the class relies on it? If Kiting was close to impossible you could throw Sorc/Sage into the next trash can.

yep, being bad makes my cc not work when you're whitebarred. My scoundrel whitebars people in the opener, and then my interrupt has an 8 second cooldown.

 

.) Again you miss the point. Crushing Darkness is a 2 second cast which only deals a modicum damage, gives no force back and does procc nothing.

So what you want is making casters completely useless. Why not ask for some more silences and anti force/tech damage abilities. Oh wait why not give all the other classes more immunity abilties while we are at it?

You said you can't do damage while being interrupted, you clearly can unless you're one of those morons that stands there looking stupid for 4 seconds after an interrupt.

 

Which, from the sound of your posts, sounds like the case.

 

5.) Fake casting? You mean what I did on my mage already in classic when everybody after watching Vurtne thought it was a keen invention? Yes I do?

What does that have anything to do with the problem that good players will reduce the amount of TK Throw / Lightning to a minimum?

 

If you're fakecasting, and they interrupt, you're free to cast FL for 8 seconds until it's back up, even if you're so bad at kiting that you can't even keep them off of you. I don't understand how you have force problems, either you're making it up or you're doing something terribly wrong.

[Vales]

You are doing it wrong, this thread is about making sorc free kill for everyone instead of quite a few classes it is now. And about baddies having problem with good sorcs. And big numbers that can be achieved when playing agains terribads.

 

 

 

Yeeeah, well i played every class to level 10 and all are EZ mode.

 

You are doing it wrong.

All other classes need terrific amounts of skill to play especially tunnelvision Sents/Maras since all they can do is pump damage into one enemy which is of course harder than also looking out for team mates to shield/heal and off CC/interupt another healer/DPS while you are at it.

Clearly so hard building up focs and dumping it with rage/focus dumpers such skill needed for that! Like making a handstand on two fingers while pressing your hotkyes with your little toe!

While Sorc/Sages are so easy that you can just nail the keyboard on the wall and just throw a tennis ball against it!

[Aidank]

6.) I doubt you play that class seeing how you exaggerate grossly.

 

 

You can make a level 1 on the maw right now and I'll meet you ingame, my character's name is aidan.

[Aidank]

You are doing it wrong.

All other classes need terrific amounts of skill to play especially tunnelvision Sents/Maras since all they can do is pump damage into one enemy which is of course harder than also looking out for team mates to shield/heal and off CC/interupt another healer/DPS while you are at it.

Clearly so hard building up focs and dumping it with rage/focus dumpers such skill needed for that! Like making a handstand on two fingers while pressing your hotkyes with your little toe!

While Sorc/Sages are so easy that you can just nail the keyboard on the wall and just throw a tennis ball against it!

 

You've got to be trolling at this point, do you honestly think that sentinels are easier to play than sorcerers?

[Vales]

Well because you said so, I guess that disproves all the facts I posted yesterday about focus regen. Darn.

 

Second, Why can't you? My scoundrel's interrupt is a 8 second cd, lockout is 4 seconds. If you're so bad at kiting just stand there and use force lightning when the lockout is up, there's nothing stopping you seeing as my opener whitebars you.

 

The only spell you can really interrupt off a sorcerer is force lightning...

No, interrupts in wow forced people to fakecast, something i've never seen done in this game. And ranged classes were hardly gimped in wow either, wow's interrupt system was much better

Because it penalized bad players

Yep, because it's such a big decision trying to interrupt the 1 spell you can interrupt

 

yep, being bad makes my cc not work when you're whitebarred. My scoundrel whitebars people in the opener, and then my interrupt has an 8 second cooldown.

 

 

You said you can't do damage while being interrupted, you clearly can unless you're one of those morons that stands there looking stupid for 4 seconds after an interrupt.

 

Which, from the sound of your posts, sounds like the case.

 

 

 

If you're fakecasting, and they interrupt, you're free to cast FL for 8 seconds until it's back up, even if you're so bad at kiting that you can't even keep them off of you. I don't understand how you have force problems, either you're making it up or you're doing something terribly wrong.

 

1.) Which facts? That all force powers cost "only" 45 force which I disproved alerady with one spell called Force Armor/Static Barrier which costs 20 more?

 

2.) Your opener white bars me yet you fail to mention you can get me to 50% or less health in the opener. Good job buddy.

 

3.) What? You can interupt the heals, force lift if he does not have Containment, Mind Crush, etc. Many options, most are wrong.

TK Throw/Lighting interupted -> No force regeneration and no isntant damage proccs. Must be hard to understand this concept.

 

4.) Congrats you proved that most players are bad at this game. What was your point again?

 

5.) I did not say I cannot do any damage. Just meaningful damage and sustain if opponents watch out for TK Throw. Same goes for Tracer Missle/Grav Round for Mercs/Commandos. Which by the way deal more damage and are faster.

 

6.) Proper burst needs 4 things:

PoM, Psychic Projection, FiB off CD, TK Wave off CD (most likely unless heavy AoE at Voidstar doors), Force Potency off CD

Edited February 16, 2012 by Vales

[Aidank]

1.) Which facts? That all force powers cost "only" 45 force which I disproved alerady with one spell called Force Armor/Static Barrier which costs 20 more?

 

 

I posted the force regen you've got per gdc (12) and the force costs of every instant ability you've got and they average to about 35 so that's -30 force per GCD if you're spamming abilities every gcd, which is practically impossible, so I went down to -25 force per GCD

 

 

That leaves you an average of 36 seconds of spamming instants to run out force.

 

 

And I never said nothing costs more than 45 force, I said project is your biggest force dump, costing 45 force and being on a 6 second cd.

[Rallic]

So how many for nerfs we up to now ? 30-35? Out of what 1.5-2 million players. Ya better get that nerf bat out seams the.35 bad players are calling the shots for the masses. Roflma Edited February 16, 2012 by Rallic

[Vales]

I posted the force regen you've got per gdc (12) and the force costs of every instant ability you've got and they average to about 35 so that's -30 force per GCD if you're spamming abilities every gcd, which is practically impossible, so I went down to -25 force per GCD

 

 

That leaves you an average of 36 seconds of spamming instants to run out force.

 

 

And I never said nothing costs more than 45 force, I said project is your biggest force dump, costing 45 force and being on a 6 second cd.

 

Which is again wrong since it is Force Amor at 65 cost already. FiB 50 Force. TK Wave 50 force.

Force Regen is 8 only unless you can spam TK Throw which is again the point I made about it being imperative to interupt the Sorc/Sage while they do so.

If you are forced to use Consumption/NS you bring it down fast to 0.

Strange that I do can run out of force faster. Your math do not match up with reality.

And I am by now convinced you never played a Sage/Sorc past level 10.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Vales

[GrandMike]

So how many for nerfs we up to now ? 30-35? Out of what 1.5-2 million players. Ya better get that nerf bat out seams the.35 bad players are calling the shots for the masses. Roflma

 

More like 2-3 lol.

[Vales]

So how many for nerfs we up to now ? 30-35? Out of what 1.5-2 million players. Ya better get that nerf bat out seams the.35 bad players are calling the shots for the masses. Roflma

 

This is why all MMO companies should avoid these forums like the plague.

A very vocal minority wants to dictate what they deem is right for the game.

[Kalantris]

No real way to go OOF either. The class has the easiest resource in the game to manage, it's never been a problem for me.

 

Assuming you only DPS. If you start tossing shields around and using other abilities you run out of force easily.

 

No school lockouts, if you get interrupted after 2 ticks then you didn't even waste a GCD, the class is hardly even effected by interrupts

 

If you get interrupted before presence procs all you can do is project and perhaps balance if it's not on cooldown (which is highly doubtful).

 

a 30% proc that has a chance to proc 4 times in 3 seconds.

 

Which is bullcrap because of the stupid RNG system. I had 8 full channels without a proc. I had a lot of channels with 4 procs. How do they help me exactly? They don't. Plus you need this one and effusion from weaken mind to actually HAVE the burst. That's 2 30% procs not one. The other one has one chance per 2 seconds or something.

 

The single target burst isn't very high, but in hybrid you can chain lightning -> death field for up to 9k combined(At least pre-surge nerf, I haven't tried bursting since then) This is hardly worth complaining over

 

Chain lightning would be telekinetic wave and death field would be force in balance as I presume. I have power/surge build and no, you can't do 9k combined. The base dmg of wave is 1700ish, force in balance 1300ish (that's on +5xx power adrenal +3xx power relic). Even with 92% surge, like I had, this combo would hit for up to 7,2k to opponents with light armor and no expertise. Now all you can get is 5k. Now that's some burst right? You can do it once every 30 seconds, whoa.

 

 

it takes 1 gcd to remove, and 1 gcd to apply... it's got no cooldown, removing it is hardly a viable strategy.

 

Sure it is. Especially since you cleanse two debuffs, so not only does weaken mind go away, but also mind crush, which means a sage's dps goes down to like humm... 400?

 

 

You mean like every other mezz in the game?

 

You mean like a marauder knocks down everyone in range for 6 seconds and it doesn't break on damage? Or a guardian jumps to you stuning you even though your resolve bar is full? Or a guardian jumps to you, grips you instant, keeps on bashing you, then pushes you, knocks you down for 3 seconds and then jumps to you again stunning you? That's CC. What sages have is crap.

 

you misspelled strongest

 

It could heal even a billion hitpoints. It's still unusable in any PvP situation.

 

Now we're just going in circles, both me and tum have posted how much relative mitigation the shield provides in comparison to armor, Sorcerers have some of the best survivability in the game.

 

Piece of crap. Against 500dps for 20 seconds (10000 damage total):

Sage (12% arm red, 3k shield) = 8800 - 3000 = 5800 damage received.

Commando (38% arm reduction) = 6200 damage received.

 

Against 2000dps for 20 seconds (40000 dmg total):

Sage (12% arm red, 3k shield) = 35200 - 3000 = 32200 damage received.

35200 / 20 = 1760/s.

Commando (38% arm reduction) = 24800 damage reveiced.

24800 / 20 = 1240/s.

 

Expected lifespan against 2000 dps:

Sage (12% arm red, 3k shield, 16,500 hp + 3000 shield) = 11 seconds.

Commando (38% arm, 17,500 hp) = 14 seconds.

 

Furthermore survivability is not only "how long can you take the hits" it's also defensive cooldowns (0 on sage, 1 on commando) and flat mitigation, which allows the healers to keep up. It's impossible to keep up a sage. It's entirely possible to keep up a commando.

 

 

Everything you listed are just problems every other class in the game has, or things that sorcerers aren't the very best in the game at, but still better than average. You can't be the best at everything, but being the best at most things is what makes sorcerers overpowered.

 

Sorcerers are jacks of all trades. They have this and that and a little bit of this, but they get outperformed in every single one by someone maybe with the sole exception of sustained AoE damage. The price you pay is high, because you're the only one with light armor out there.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Rallic]

More like 2-3 lol.

 

I was trying to make the feel better, lead them on like they have a chance.

Bw can and dose look at the numbers , knows what the class is doing whats good and what's not.

Nerfs will come to each and every class in time but what are QQing about right now will not be one of them.

 

This is a new game and all will change with time, and more classes will get added that will call for more changes. This is nothing new . Since UO , 1998 to now its bin the same with each and every MMO made.

 

I lile poking them with there own stupidity, its sort of fun. And I'd bet dollars to dollars that most of the QQers are just trolling.

[yapigia]

go ask Blizzard for a WoW 2.0 !!!

[GrandMike]

I was trying to make the feel better, lead them on like they have a chance.

Bw can and dose look at the numbers , knows what the class is doing whats good and what's not.

Nerfs will come to each and every class in time but what are QQing about right now will not be one of them.

 

This is a new game and all will change with time, and more classes will get added that will call for more changes. This is nothing new . Since UO , 1998 to now its bin the same with each and every MMO made.

 

I lile poking them with there own stupidity, its sort of fun. And I'd bet dollars to dollars that most of the QQers are just trolling.

 

Yah, if anything dps end talents will be buffed so they are worth takin. Im prettty sure some other classes are on nerf path loooong before sorc/sage.

Edited February 16, 2012 by GrandMike

[_Flin_]

1.) Which facts? That all force powers cost "only" 45 force which I disproved alerady with one spell called Force Armor/Static Barrier which costs 20 more?

 

Yeah, right. Don't need to read any further. Because, well, you know, people never use their skill points. And they never put it into static barrier. Making it cost 30 less.

[_Flin_]

This is why all MMO companies should avoid these forums like the plague.

A very vocal minority wants to dictate what they deem is right for the game.

 

Yep. That's what the ones with the OP classes have said ever since the invention of the internet.

 

We'll wait for ranked warzones, we'll see the teams. And I am curious how many won't have a sage/sorc in them.

 

Probably not a single one.

And why? Because all sorc players are just more skilled. Because let's face it: One aspect of skill is to know which class to roll.

[RaugMoss]

All the TL;DR people posting their ideas slightly different, but they are generally the same pros/cons and the ones that try to defend their cases inevitably argue over same things over and over again.

 

I have made my point in 108th page of the previous topic:

Sorcs are balanced/underpowered classes in 1v1.

 

They do not have burst damage, they dot you up and tear you up slowly, after the surge nerf, they can crit a maximum of 6k IN 2 GLOBAL CDs. The ones that follow up are pretty meh.

 

And to the OP's arguments: I myself dont even use backlash OR electric bindings, they cut your damage too much because you lose 30% crit bonus to get them and 1 more talent at the least. So i dont care if bioware moves em up, but the sorcerers that have them, cant hit EVEN 3k in a death field.

 

If you have noticed, the only CC weak class in this game are mercenaries. All the other classes have decent CC skills.

 

Take Huttball for example, I would say that having a good geared tank assassin or tank juggernaut means that your team can score 2 or 3, even if the opposing team is organizing well, because they can cover great distances and take the damage at the same time. But they are designed to do that, so np.

 

If a sorcerer, doesnt kite you or run from you melees for even 2 or 3 seconds, their hp can be halved. (EDIT) We are designed to and must play as a renegade on the run, or we are dead. AND, please dont be mad if you dont have a CC breaker and we stun one of you in 1v2 and whirwind the other, then sprint away from you to our teammates.

 

For the 50%-60% of the players that play the game are sorcs argument:

Sorcerer is a ranged caster, it can be specced to dot (warlocks), can be specced to cast dps (mage) and it can be a healer like the priest. A class that covers 3 specs, being promoted as the emperor's representation in the game, which can make a gamer shout "powaaa, unnnlimited powaa" while spamming lightning at home and the fact that it is a force user (more popular against ones that are not) are already some of the reasons why many people choose this class. Not because its OP lol.

 

TL;DR:

Make this thread more popular, and all your arguments wont be read and the devs will look at couple of posts and the OP, then decide, hmm maybe we should reconsider, and nerf sorcerers to the ground. GJ.

Edited February 16, 2012 by RaugMoss

[_Flin_]

Take Huttball for example, I would say that having a good geared tank assassin or tank juggernaut means that your team can score 2 or 3, even if the opposing team is organizing well, because they can cover great distances and take the damage at the same time. But they are designed to do that, so np.

 

Noone said Sorcs are the only class in the game. Only that they are better than most, and never average, but always better than average.

 

If a sorcerer, doesnt kite you or run from you melees for even 2 or 3 seconds, their hp can be halved. (EDIT) We are designed to and must play as a renegade on the run, or we are dead. AND, please dont be mad if you dont have a CC breaker and we stun one of you in 1v2 and whirwind the other, then sprint away from you to our teammates.

 

As a sorc you just pull the ball carrier. You run only when you have to.

 

As a commando, my lack of an interrupt is counterbalance by my lack of a slow.

[Tumri]

stuff

 

I'm too tired to write a detailed response but I'll respond to the most outrageous points. Bare with me here because I'm not going to type out anything dignified in response to this painfully inaccurate misinformation at 6 in the morning.

 

1. 12% damage reduction on a Sorcerer and 38% damage reduction on a Commando?

 

I can make up random numbers too.

 

"SORCERERS BUBBLE ABSORBS 50K DAMAGE ZOMG NERF"

 

Happy?

 

2. This is an MMO. There is RNG. Law of Large Numbers. That is all.

 

3. You're either using armor that gives under 1k Willpower and around 20-30 Power or you're just throwing out random numbers.

 

4. Sith Warrior(YES Juggernauts get it too) AoE mezz is a mezz. It's not a knockdown. It's a mezz. It has everyone go on their back like a turtle but it breaks on damage just like any other mezz because it's a mezz.

 

5. Force Charge has an Immobilize not a Stun and it lasts about as long as the Force Charge animation. You describe a Guardian blowing pretty much everything on you to keep you CC'd for a few seconds. You can CC someone for about 8 seconds with an instant cast 30 meter range Whirlwind. If it breaks on damage they get to eat a 2 second stun. I think that it's a big ridiculous that Guardians can score in huttball so fast with the leap+push+leap combo but that's pretty much the only thing they can be considered "OP" at(and it's more of an issue with huttball allowing leaps/pulls with the ball). Their CC isn't even close to being as extensive or as powerful as a Sorcerer's CC.

 

6. They're not the Jack of All Trades. A Sorcerer is the King of Resource Systems, CC, Mobility, and Utility while also being honorary Duke of AoE, Sustained Damage, and Durability. What I mean by this is they're either the absolute best at something or they're high up the list. CC is simply the area where they're just absolutely broken due to hybrid specs allowing access to THREE new powerful CCs from talents. One of these three is so crazily overpowered in it's current form I'm wondering if it's just severely bugged.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Tumri

[YMIHere]

From a commando combat medic healer perspective, sorcs are better than everything I can do.

 

You are in the wrong thread sir. I will try to humor you, but my Bounty Hunter is only 26 and I've been specced Tracer Missle since I got it. =P

 

Utility on warzones:

- For Huttball, they have rescue, which is way better than everything I have, since I have no skill like that at all

- For Voidstar and Huttball, they have sprint. I have no skill like that at all.

- For Voidstar and Alderaan, their DoT spec does more damage than my DoT spec (although I can't really go into details here, since my experience is rather limited)

- Ammo vs. Force: I face diminishing returns on my resources, they have a constant supply, no matter how low they are. This is really one thing where I wonder what went on during development. The longer the fight, the bigger this advantage is.

 

I think utility goes to Sorcerer no contest. I do think that as a fight goes on longer it hurts the Sorcerer more though. While we're good at regenerating force with innervate crits + consumption, we're still losing force and will end up at zero unless we're just standing around.

 

Healing:

- My AE is way worse No question. You don't even have to place ours that well because people will run to it when they see it.

- It is quite easy for a Sage/Sorc to outheal me. I have never seen a Sage/Sorc of comparable gear not outheal me. While I am not the masterplayer, I know how to play my class. And even If I were only mediocre, there'd be the Sage/Sorc every now and then that heals less. I'd equate this to the above and the fact that our bubble contributes while your shields do not (or do they?).

- The Bubble. I have no clue what kind of numbers you get from Kolto Shell, but I kind of see these competing in a way (both proactive). It's hard to equate though, I can't just say that yours may heal more than 3.5k in 17 seconds because I can throw bubbles on more people. I also can't designate myself to throwing bubbles all day while you heal and refresh when the 10 charges run out.

We both have one.

Mine mitigates 25% for 12 seconds. On a cooldown of 3 minutes (!). Castable on myself only. Removes slow (if skilled that's from the 2 piece healer pvp set), prevents interrupts (if not skilled, own mistake)

Theirs absorbs around 1150 + scales with gear, can be placed on other people, makes them run faster, has a cooldown of 3-4.5 seconds, can be placed on yourself every 17 seconds (if skilled). And blinds people when punched through, if skilled. Your bubble is a defensive cooldown, and Kolto Overload is also a defensive cooldown of yours. We use our bubble as a defensive cooldown refreshing it at 30 seconds and hoping that if someone hits us it's 17 seconds (20 without pvp set bonus) later for a double bubble. We can skill for a 1.5 second cooldown on it (with lower force cost) and the Backlash blind. The Backlash blind comes at great cost though, with it we lose our innervate + consumption force regen mechanic (both skills are still there, but using them in tandem for force regen is gone) along with our AoE heal (think of you speccing Jet Escape).

- instant heal

Theirs is level three, cd of 6 seconds, mine is the top tier talent, has a cooldown of 21s. Without the trauma debuff that instant heal hits for about 800, and ticks for 300. It's more of a HoT than a heal, but again I have no numbers for your Emergency Scan.

 

So when it comes to healing, the sorc is

- more versatile than I am I'm not convinced.

- has more mobility No. Your whole tree is instant, you've got a free instant heal, and I've got a HoT and my bubble.

- heals more Granted

- has an in-combat rezz Granted

- has an interrupt (!) Granted

- has a cooldown that grants next two direct heals or attacks 60% extra crit chance

- has a sprint

 

I have:

- heavy armor

- a cooldown that makes my next spell instant

- a cooldown that heals myself

- a cooldown that reduces damae by 25% for 12 seconds

- a cooldown that makes your next spell cost no resources

- a further knockback with 60% slow

(EDIT: My heal spells increase armor and healing on the target our HoT increases armor too)

/stealing Tumri's style

 

Compared to a Sorc / Sage... I am just gimped as a Commando Combat Medic. Add to that that I have to go full in the tree and can't build a hybrid, because I need those top tier skills for healing efficiently.

 

We have to go full tree healing efficiency as well. I could see a well protected Sorcerer being better in a group, but a group could focus less on protecting a Mercenary.

[me_unknown]

6. They're not the Jack of All Trades. A Sorcerer is the King of Resource Systems, CC, Mobility, and Utility while also being honorary Duke of AoE, Sustained Damage, and Durability.

 

i wished all the people sustaining this bull**** would try to play a sroc/sage at 50 in end game pvp.