The truth about the 1.7 million subs

[Eltohan]

I love how a factual post can bring out all the stupids.

Agree, this forum is funnier than playing the game itself, nuff said

[sheisty]

Did I broke your heart my friend ?

 

If I opened your eyes on the matter, I am so sorry.

 

Please do as usual and forget what I wrote, obviously the game is a major success and will be Goty anytime soon

 

Nahh, The game is a success and will continue to be so, even if they lose 1/2 their subs. It really does not matter in the grand scheme. Because people which like the game will continue to like it and play it. there is tons of games out there that have 1/10 of the numbers of swtor and they still are alive and well with people playing them because they like them. People like you really do nothing to sway the crowds.

 

You are not opening anyone's eyes, we are not stupid people. Your kind of posts are sad and pathetic, pissing in everyone's cheerios because it makes you feel good inside is a true measure of a messed up individual.

[Zhauric]

Read through this carefully, I think you'll find it quite interesting. Above all, it's all facts.

 

They sold 1.75 million copies in December. 1.7 million activated their accounts in December.

 

 

 

The financial statement cut-off date was 12/31/2011. The first subscription could not end before 01/20/2012.

 

 

 

What you're seeing is what appears to be a deliberate mis-representation by BioWare/EA. What they're supposed to do is use, as we call it in he Certified Public Accounting profession, a SUBSEQUENT EVENTS DISCLOSURE under FASB 165:

 

FASB Statement no. 165, Subsequent Events disclosures are required for interim and annual periods ending after June 15, 2009. The standard requires the disclosure of the date through which an entity has evaluated subsequent events and whether that represents the date the financial statements were issued or were available to be issued.

 

You see, some of us do this for a living. And, unlike you, we know the rules and what we're talking about. The 1.7 million subs is nothing more than an accouting and reporting artifact. One that was not properly footnoted or disclosed for the obvious subsequent events of the failure to renew events of late January which should be in the 'subsequent event' period.

 

 

But it gets better....

 

 

Something else, rather sleazy, that I noticed BioWare doing... As of February 3rd, 2012, they lowered the population necessary to get out of 'light' server load population and into moderate. They also lowered the cap when it came to heavy.

 

In one day the 'heavy' load went from 3% of server time to 30% of server time. One day. The FULL cap was not changed and it still averages less than 1% of server time and it only happens on Saturday's now.

 

So when YOU log in and see 'moderate' or 'heavy' populations in your server list.... You're being lied to... The redefinded them down, and by quite a bit...

 

You are reaching with this post OP. Granted with your post history it's not very surprising.

 

One, you spew the information regarding FASB 165 which is true but has little relevance on what you are bringing up. Yes, their reporting quarter was ending at 12/31/2011 but the problem with your whole arguement is stating that the 1.7 million subscriptions was as of that date. What do you have to base that on? Just the fact that their quarterly report ended at 12/31? For one, there are no real subscribers at that date since it launched at 12/20. But more importantly they sold over 2 million units (not sure where you pulled that 1.75 from) and since the game was not even allowing people to get anywhere without activating the sub upon purchase then they would have had over 2 million subs and not the 1.7 they are reporting making it rather obvious that 1.7 was not as of 12/31.

 

Regarding the servers, they raised the population cap on many servers. This was something they stated they would gradually back on 12/21. How is it sleezy if they even decided to lower the cap back down on servers that were not heavily populated? It's reacted to the playerbase. If you have a server that is not high in population then you may set the server cap back to where you originally intended. It's just basic logic. If you rather see it as sleezy then more power to you. But anyone driven to play a game by looking at the population of servers with such generic descriptions as Heavy, Standard and Light should probably not waste their time with such since it is not very informative anyway.

 

In the end...who cares? What matters if you enjoy the game or not. If it has 1.7 million, 1 million, 500k, 200k it doesn't matter. What matters if you enjoy the game and the direction it is going. If you don't then move on and find something you do. If you do then continue to enjoy and see how the game progresses. It's as simple as that.

[Kaelshi]

I love how a factual post can bring out all the stupids.

 

the facts the OP said are wrong though. It's not about being stupid or a fanboi.

 

It's just about the fact that he's wrong about what he said.

 

He may be of the opinion that Bioware is trying to smudge numbers and I am positive he believes what they did with the servers is unethical.

 

It does not change that the info he gave about the additional form he wants them to file is wrong.

[Scar]

Take it for whatever it's worth to you, I really don't care either way. I have no other agenda than to speak the truth about what's going on. I think paying customers need to know this and should be told the truth about it.

 

In regard to why I didn't write this in General chat? Well, I'm sure we're all aware of the forum team that Bioware has hired to immediate close, remove posts like this within mere minutes of their arrival to the forums. However, the PvP forums aren't moderated as quickly.

 

This being moved to the General and left open really proved you right, huh?

[Arkerus]

That last sentence is so true man, how can these biodrones be so blinded?

 

So if you don't like the game (personally I love it)...and you even post a bad review...what exactly are you doing here?

 

 

What kind of crazy person posts on forums, for a product they don't like, just to troll the people who do like it?

 

Seems rather...sad...to me.

 

Go enjoy something you like to do and leave the forums for constructive criticism.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Arkerus

[iheartnyc]

Read through this carefully, I think you'll find it quite interesting. Above all, it's all facts.

 

They sold 1.75 million copies in December. 1.7 million activated their accounts in December.

 

 

 

The financial statement cut-off date was 12/31/2011. The first subscription could not end before 01/20/2012.

 

 

 

What you're seeing is what appears to be a deliberate mis-representation by BioWare/EA. What they're supposed to do is use, as we call it in he Certified Public Accounting profession, a SUBSEQUENT EVENTS DISCLOSURE under FASB 165:

 

FASB Statement no. 165, Subsequent Events disclosures are required for interim and annual periods ending after June 15, 2009. The standard requires the disclosure of the date through which an entity has evaluated subsequent events and whether that represents the date the financial statements were issued or were available to be issued.

 

You see, some of us do this for a living. And, unlike you, we know the rules and what we're talking about. The 1.7 million subs is nothing more than an accouting and reporting artifact. One that was not properly footnoted or disclosed for the obvious subsequent events of the failure to renew events of late January which should be in the 'subsequent event' period.

 

I do M&A at a company that was in Bloomberg's top 5 for 2011 global M&A advisory league tables. We did the Skype IPO and Facebook IPO. I've worked on over 50 deals (plus countless advisory services), most of which I'm sure you've heard about. And I"m just going to say, If you are an accountant, you should know better.

 

SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS ARE NOT FINANCIAL NUMBERS AND YOU, AS AN ACCOUNTANT HAVE NO BUSINESS COMMENTING ON THEM. FASB DOES NOT APPLY.

 

Now go back and draft me another review report.

 

Just so you don't call me a liar, institutional clients are dealing with massive white paper and 135-day rule issues right now given the timing and the revised rules for 20-F filings. You probably should know what I'm talking about. Since it's the accountants who made this an issue.

Edited February 14, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

I love how a factual post can bring out all the stupids.

 

either you're dumb enough to believe the drivel the OP has posted, or you are a CPA who was offended by my statement.

 

either way, i sort of feel bad for you.

[Brickabrack]

OP, a fact is something you state with verifiable evidence. If you're going to make these claims, link your sources or you're just a troll.

[wifeaggro]

What's the point of your post? So you're a CPA and you've discovered some reporting discrepancies on the part of Bioware/EA. Great job! We're all impressed with how smart you are at the job you do every day. I'm sure nobody else in the financial world has any idea that things like this can or do happen, so it's a good thing you pointed it out.

 

Then you go on to make a claim about server player loads and how they're measured without any proof whatsoever. There's no way you can possibly know that. Your evidence is non-existent. My server has been "Standard" population for a while now. Roughly the same number of people on the fleet and on other planets that I'm used to seeing for the past month at least, and queue times seem to be no different or even faster. So that's the evidence I have to the contrary. Not very useful, but hey, it's better than what you provided.

 

Oh, and this is the PvP forum. Go post this somewhere else. This has nothing to do with PvP.

i think the jist of it is too stop the zealots from claiming 1.7 million paying subs. at the end of this qrtr we are going to see revenues that indicate at least 45% burn off of of the sales actually subbing t the game those retentions numbers will be worse then rift better then AOC. all pointing to TOR as being profitable. it will never retain 1.7 million subs ever the game simply is not that good its a single player RPG with MMO features.

[Drallbait]

Thanks for the lies and misleading statements!

 

As was noted when that article came out, they sold over 2 million copies and the 1.7 million measurement was done on the date of the post, in early February. Long after the first wave of players that didn't renew were gone. It was just a much smaller number than whiners on this forum wanted to believe, 300k.

 

They did make it clear, that this was a mix of people that made subscriptions and were currently using them, and players that started their free month sometime between mid January and the date of the article, and may not be paying for a sub yet.

 

Nothing tricky, just the facts. Population will rise over time as commercials hit. Although some of the initial rush of hardcore players that just use and abuse the game and go away, might still need to flush out more.

[SoupyNuggs]

Read through this carefully, I think you'll find it quite interesting. Above all, it's all facts.

 

They sold 1.75 million copies in December. 1.7 million activated their accounts in December.

 

 

 

The financial statement cut-off date was 12/31/2011. The first subscription could not end before 01/20/2012.

 

 

Where is your source/citation for this? I saw the official quarterly earnings report back when they first released it a week or 2 ago and it stated explicitly 1.7 million active subs as of Feb. xx, i.e. after 1/20/2012, i.e. after the end of the 30-day free period for everyone who bought the game at launch.

 

Until you provide credible evidence backing your claims, you are nothing but a lie-mongerer, a harbinger of false information.

[sheisty]

it will never retain 1.7 million subs ever the game simply is not that good its a single player RPG with MMO features.

 

Of course not, and no game has done so other than the perfect storm of WoW, which would take another miracle to accomplish.

 

In the end this will be just another mmo that the mmo junkies will rotate through like they do now.

 

Still it will be one of the popular ones.

[Emeda]

You may want to reread this thread, because multiple people have called out the OP as giving incorrect information, especially on the situation surrounding the sub numbers.

 

No they havent. All the responses dont say hes not telling the truth. They try to discredit what he says but doesnt say he is lying.

 

Its all old new, your a hater move on. Wasnt this disproven?(as to give a false impression that the OP is lying) etc etc etc.

 

Also Bioware problable wont lock it yet because they have enough fanboiz insulting the OP as a way of saying hes wrong. If to much proof comes out then they will just temporarily close the thread to clean it up (code for remove posts that they dont want people to see) and then open it again so that it looks like enough fanboiz are saying hes wrong. Or they will just close the thread because enough fanboiz have derailed it.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

Of course not, and no game has done so other than the perfect storm of WoW, which would take another miracle to accomplish.

 

In the end this will be just another mmo that the mmo junkies will rotate through like they do now.

 

Still it will be one of the popular ones.

 

TOR is unlikely to reach WoW numbers primarily due to the lack of an Asian launch. Not much money in that though.

[Azzras]

Of course not, and no game has done so other than the perfect storm of WoW, which would take another miracle to accomplish.

 

In the end this will be just another mmo that the mmo junkies will rotate through like they do now.

 

Still it will be one of the popular ones.

 

Actually, since they are launching in more countries/regions it would stand to reason that 2mil + isn't that far fetched.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

No they havent. All the responses dont say hes not telling the truth. They try to discredit what he says but doesnt say he is lying.

 

Its all old new, your a hater move on. Wasnt this disproven?(as to give a false impression that the OP is lying) etc etc etc.

 

Also Bioware problable wont lock it yet because they have enough fanboiz insulting the OP as a way of saying hes wrong. If to much proof comes out then they will just temporarily close the thread to clean it up (code for remove posts that they dont want people to see) and then open it again so that it looks like enough fanboiz are saying hes wrong. Or they will just close the thread because enough fanboiz have derailed it.

 

uh huh

[Thaltom]

No they havent. All the responses dont say hes not telling the truth. They try to discredit what he says but doesnt say he is lying.

 

It's on the OP to provide proof of his statements and he has not. Just words, no citations.

[Mandrax]

 

Something else, rather sleazy, that I noticed BioWare doing... As of February 3rd, 2012, they lowered the population necessary to get out of 'light' server load population and into moderate. They also lowered the cap when it came to heavy.

 

In one day the 'heavy' load went from 3% of server time to 30% of server time. One day. The FULL cap was not changed and it still averages less than 1% of server time and it only happens on Saturday's now.

 

So when YOU log in and see 'moderate' or 'heavy' populations in your server list.... You're being lied to... The redefinded them down, and by quite a bit...

 

Most MMO developers do this after the free month, it's not just BioWare. It's done as you rightly say, to dupe people into believing that the populations are actually better than they really are. It's standard practice.

[Emeda]

OP, a fact is something you state with verifiable evidence. If you're going to make these claims, link your sources or you're just a troll.

 

I have linked sources and numbers and the post was deleted so we cant show the proof because it will be removed.

[Mooseknuckl]

great post OP. the best is the fanboy tards who sit here an say "you've got no proof, you've got no proof" yet they provide absolutely no proof themselves to contradict the statements made.....not to mention it's an FYI post, not a RUNZ from the game peoplez it's baddzzzz....the low level of intelligence is astounding.

[Emeda]

Since we have so many fanboiz in this thread I will find the numbers and repost them. Lets just hope this post isnt closed before that.

[Matteis]

What a terrible thread.

[djsmileey]

So... from a person first looking at this thread, one would think this is about:

 

WoW vs TOR, and Speculation or Fact?

 

This thread is different from the hundreds of others how?

[ThiborF]

In a nutshell, the information the OP is referring to is the quarterly profits/earnings for Electronic Arts that were released a short time ago. Here's one reference to that data:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_19873141

 

You can Google "Electronic Arts quarterly report" to access multiple listings for that information.

 

Note these are earnings posted by a publicly traded company, hence they have certain rules and regulations they must abide by or face prosecution. For evidence that this can happen you can search on "SEC falsifying earnings" and find articles from everything like Madoff and Enron to things like Dell being fined $100 million for such practices.

 

In short, if you feel that a publicly traded company is falsifying earnings reports, go ahead and contact someone that goes after big companies for such things. I'm sure they would be interested in going after a company, IF they were actually doing this, that is claiming quarterly revenues of close to $1B ($925m projected for their 4th Q.)

To help you, here's a link to SEC contact info:

http://www.sec.gov/contact/phones.htm

 

Or you know, if you have no proof and are talking out your backside like so many armchair quarterbacks for <insert profession here> found on game forums, you can just shut up.