Thourton Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Oh, one more addition: Even though my Commando's AOE heal's direct output was weak, the buffs it provided (+5% heals received, I believe) made the skill amazing. I regularly used Kolto Bomb just for the procs it gave. I haven't played a Sage/Sorc, but I noticed similar skills in their Skill Trees. Operative doesn't have any of that. Edited February 16, 2012 by Thourton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladinian Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Patch notes for 1.1.4 are out. Operatives are finally getting Medical Therapy fixed, so hooray for that! Other then that, not much to say. No major nerfs, so as least the forums should quiet down some. Nothing to stem the exodus to Sage / Sorc, but at least there's a bug fix. Here's still hoping for the Friday Dev. Q&A to touch on the concerns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophetic Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Here's still hoping for the Friday Dev. Q&A to touch on the concerns! Dittos. Our guild leader is going to that guild summit thing, so I asked him to bug them about the power gap between healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dittos. Our guild leader is going to that guild summit thing, so I asked him to bug them about the power gap between healers. If your guild leader needs anyone to talk to RE Operative/Scoundrel . . . !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dittos. Our guild leader is going to that guild summit thing, so I asked him to bug them about the power gap between healers. Make him take a print out of the Healer Request Compilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgrassgrows Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 im not an ops so my opinion should not matter, but in my guild the best healers we have are ops...and by alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 im not an ops so my opinion should not matter, but in my guild the best healers we have are ops...and by alot Then your other healing classes, especially sorcs, can't be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 im not an ops so my opinion should not matter False! You're opinion should and does matter - as a minority class (Operative/Scoundrel) in a minority role (healing), we need as much support as we can get. That our role (healing) is vital to a group's success in any situation should also make balance between the healing classes - and thus more potential healers - of interest to you as well. My hope is that I can win over your support. but in my guild the best healers we have are ops...and by alot I have no doubt of this; but that doesn't conflict with my assertion that Operative/Scoundrel healers are a dying breed. In 8 & 16-man Operations, Operative/Scoundrel healing simply is not competitive. However in easier content, the Operative/Scoundrel can keep a group up, but they have to work very hard at it. Consequently the only successful Operative/Scoundrel healers are those who took the time to stick with the class and learn its (broken) mechanics. The issue is that these healers would blow you away if they'd rolled a Sorcerer/Sage instead. Their hard work would push out ~2x as much healing. At least. So if not for me, support class balance for the Operatives in your guild - for all their skill, isn't it only fair that they be viable healers regardless of their class, as opposed to currently being worse than even a mediocre Sorcerer/Sage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esplol Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You, sir, are a god among men for posting this so eloquently. I will sacrifice my next fatted calf to you. Maybe if I ran more often and ate less pizza, I wouldn't have fat calves. On a serious note, I don't want to play a Sorc. It's starting to look like I might have to in order to reach my full potential as a dedicated healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You, sir, are a god among men for posting this so eloquently. I will sacrifice my next fatted calf to you. Maybe if I ran more often and ate less pizza, I wouldn't have fat calves. On a serious note, I don't want to play a Sorc. It's starting to look like I might have to in order to reach my full potential as a dedicated healer. I'm having such a hard time leveling my sage that I am actually getting more enjoyment out of the boards and building the stat calculator for the community than I get from the game. But I don't want to level anything else until they give us real info on Legacy, and so the Sage is what is next on the schedule...it just isn't nearly as compelling of a class. I don't want to be OP, I want to have fun, but sadly the fun classes are broken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I'm having such a hard time leveling my sage that I am actually getting more enjoyment out of the boards and building the stat calculator for the community than I get from the game. But I don't want to level anything else until they give us real info on Legacy, and so the Sage is what is next on the schedule...it just isn't nearly as compelling of a class. I don't want to be OP, I want to have fun, but sadly the fun classes are broken... /signed. I can't level my Sorcerer, I don't like it. Nor am I interested in playing any other class (I'm a healer dammit!) I haven't told anyone yet, because I'm not a drama queen, but I unsubscribed (I continue to be under no illusion that anyone cares). If they fix the class I love, then I'll resub in an instant - I love everything about the game except being stuck in an underpowered class - but it appears to be that SWTOR won't be ready for me for awhile. I've still got 60 days, so I'll still be here fighting everyday; but ever since my guild stopped raiding Operatives early this week, I haven't had the heart to log in. I've probably played less than 5 hours all week. Edited February 16, 2012 by bobudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapher Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) False! You're opinion should and does matter - as a minority class (Operative/Scoundrel) in a minority role (healing), we need as much support as we can get. That our role (healing) is vital to a group's success in any situation should also make balance between the healing classes - and thus more potential healers - of interest to you as well. My hope is that I can win over your support. I have no doubt of this; but that doesn't conflict with my assertion that Operative/Scoundrel healers are a dying breed. In 8 & 16-man Operations, Operative/Scoundrel healing simply is not competitive. However in easier content, the Operative/Scoundrel can keep a group up, but they have to work very hard at it. Consequently the only successful Operative/Scoundrel healers are those who took the time to stick with the class and learn its (broken) mechanics. The issue is that these healers would blow you away if they'd rolled a Sorcerer/Sage instead. Their hard work would push out ~2x as much healing. At least. So if not for me, support class balance for the Operatives in your guild - for all their skill, isn't it only fair that they be viable healers regardless of their class, as opposed to currently being worse than even a mediocre Sorcerer/Sage? Damnit Bobudo, you've done it again! I wish I could get a refund on my remaining two months subscription and give it to you to put towards a plane ticket so you can gatecrash the Guild Summit and demand some answers. I'm usually the last person to promote childish conspiracy involving developers hating/ignoring/favoring any class, but the sheer lack of communication is really starting to raise eyebrows. Like I said in the Op forums, I do not believe there is a quick fix for us as it's simply not a numbers issue, so any meaningful redesign will require a lot of time and testing on Bioware's behalf. However, what doesn't require a lot of time is a little bit of developer feedback letting us know they're aware of the severe issues/imbalances and they're working towards addressing them. Edited February 16, 2012 by Zapher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 /signed. I can't level my Sorcerer, I don't like it. Nor am I interested in playing any other class (I'm a healer dammit!) I haven't told anyone yet, because I'm not a drama queen, but I unsubscribed (I continue to be under no illusion that anyone cares). If they fix the class I love, then I'll resub in an instant - I love everything about the game except being stuck in an underpowered class - but it appears to be that SWTOR won't be ready for me for awhile. I've still got 60 days, so I'll still be here fighting everyday; but ever since my guild stopped raiding Operatives early this week, I haven't had the heart to log in. I've probably played less than 5 hours all week. This really saddens me, and if you leave, it will be a big loss to the forum community as a whole. I feel your and RuQu's pain, as honestly, if it isn't fun, why are we doing it? Plus, as a Runepriest in WAR and a Holy Priest in WoW, I as well was really looking forward to a new healing mechanic, which is really what brought me to this class in the first place. I slightly disagree with your anti-drama queen-iness stance though, as these forums have proven that terse and/or whiney posts are much more effective than well-though-out, content rich posts. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. Case in point: you and RuQu have written dozens of well crafted posts over the past few months, and the only one to get commented on (in how long?) on these boards is my pithy 1.1.3 gut punch post. Why my post was answered while yours continue to get lost in the aether is the core problem of these forums. Again though, at least the Medical Therapy fix gives me a glimmer of hope, and 1.2 in March will be the real decider for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 /signed. I can't level my Sorcerer, I don't like it. Nor am I interested in playing any other class (I'm a healer dammit!) I haven't told anyone yet, because I'm not a drama queen, but I unsubscribed (I continue to be under no illusion that anyone cares). If they fix the class I love, then I'll resub in an instant - I love everything about the game except being stuck in an underpowered class - but it appears to be that SWTOR won't be ready for me for awhile. I've still got 60 days, so I'll still be here fighting everyday; but ever since my guild stopped raiding Operatives early this week, I haven't had the heart to log in. I've probably played less than 5 hours all week. Hate to see you go, bobudo. I've enjoyed our talks. I'm currently, as in while watching the boards, working on getting a Scoundrel calculator setup in my ongoing project, now that I have Commando and Merc healing largely squared away. Honestly, my guild is mostly people who knew each other from WoW, and we've been waiting on a couple of people who had real life stuff come up so our first real Op is this weekend. Luckily, Im a Commando, not a Scoundrel, so I'm expecting to be fine, and our other healers are, of course, Sages. Our only Scoundrel healer stopped logging in 2 weeks ago. Haven't seen him. That set us back a bit too. For me, its the Legacy thing keeping me from playing. I was an alt addict in WoW, had all but three classes at 85, and one of them was in the low 80s. But until I know what the Legacy is going to unlock, I can't bring myself to dedicate much time to any of my alts, and my main isn't raiding while we wait on a replacement for that Scoundrel to level. So while I'm doing game related stuff instead of actually playing....any suggestions for the Operative/Scoundrel calculator? Should I just keep it as a sustained mode calculation? Should I try and code in a "Set burst and recover phase length" option? Its an easy question with Commandos, our burst lasts 10 seconds and needs 15 before we can do it again. Should I just try and mirror that? 15 seconds in, burst starts and you chain cast like a fool for 10 seconds, then try and recover in the next 15? Of course, that's just a hardcoded version of option 2 above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This really saddens me, and if you leave, it will be a big loss to the forum community as a whole. I feel your and RuQu's pain, as honestly, if it isn't fun, why are we doing it? Plus, as a Runepriest in WAR and a Holy Priest in WoW, I as well was really looking forward to a new healing mechanic, which is really what brought me to this class in the first place. I slightly disagree with your anti-drama queen-iness stance though, as these forums have proven that terse and/or whiney posts are much more effective than well-though-out, content rich posts. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. Case in point: you and RuQu have written dozens of well crafted posts over the past few months, and the only one to get commented on (in how long?) on these boards is my pithy 1.1.3 gut punch post. Why my post was answered while yours continue to get lost in the aether is the core problem of these forums. Again though, at least the Medical Therapy fix gives me a glimmer of hope, and 1.2 in March will be the real decider for me. We got a response on this forum? Even an irrelevant one?! Screenshot or it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 We got a response on this forum? Even an irrelevant one?! Screenshot or it didn't happen. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=299463 Not a dev, but still a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=299463 Not a dev, but still a response. Well, at least we know someone checks in once and a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 I slightly disagree with your anti-drama queen-iness stance though, as these forums have proven that terse and/or whiney posts are much more effective than well-though-out, content rich posts. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. Case in point: you and RuQu have written dozens of well crafted posts over the past few months, and the only one to get commented on (in how long?) on these boards is my pithy 1.1.3 gut punch post. Why my post was answered while yours continue to get lost in the aether is the core problem of these forums. I just can't do it - I'm an advocate and debater, not a whiner. It's just not in me, and I continue to believe that the Devs will at some point read this dialogue that we'e all created, even though that will likely come too late to save the game for me. I got my chance to be terse when I unsubbed, and I told them flat out that I didn't think they were "constantly reviewing" balance like the unsubscribe screen claimed. But I won't grandstand on it here - I won't start throwing a temper tantrum and undo all the work we've done. Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere for a long time, and let's be honest - if the Devs won't start addressing us within 60 days, we should all unsubscribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, at least we know someone checks in once and a while. The CSRs are constantly here. Case in point: try making a spam post and watch how quickly they'll delete it and warn you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 hey, 1.1.4 is on the PTS and our medical therapy is being fixed... i guess that means that finally they saw the imbalance of the healing and fixed it. its all ok guys, now we are on equal footing as the other two healing classes. you can now relax and level your new main and let your operative bite the dust. /sarcasm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airski Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Addresses every point I think I could have made. Good post, sums up the way I have been feeling about my Oprative Healer for the past couple of weeks, and I have very little faith now in this game. If they wont even try to improve Agent/Smuggler healing, I would really start to worry about the future of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I've been on game forums since 2004 when WoW came out, and I've never seen a community come together like this one has. I haven't read every single thread, nor have I read all the posts, but from what I have read, we are unified. If one of our main speakers asked for us to not heal for a day, or a week, I would be willing to be 75+% of healers that read the forums, and know of these issues, would follow their request. We are united. We are polite. We are asking that you, the Developers, fix the issues healers are facing. Sorc healers. Sage healers. Operative healers. Commando Healers. Scoundrel healers. Mercenary healers. We all have issues. Some more than others. Fix them. Let us know you are fixing them. Do not continue in silence, for you are losing us, and we are the most important, most under played leg of the trinity. You know, this is more than 50% of pages away!! I need it closer to the last page. We deserve a response! Edited February 17, 2012 by bobudo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sicae Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Was doing 8-man HM with my operative and ended up ditching it. I just couldn't keep myself playing it after I got my sage to 50 and ran comparisons on the abilities. Just not interested paying money to play a flawed class that should have been fixed during beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Gonna cross-post this into this thread if bobudo doesn't mind a quick hijack. Please reply in the original thread so why don't distract from this one, but I figured this was a thread that some of those rare Operatives and Scoundrels might still be found in. My Scoundrel Alpha is uploading right now. Link is in my signature, version with Scoundrel rotation is 1.0.7a. The UI will have some mislabeled items, holdovers from the parts copied from Commando. Those parts don't do anything on the backend, set bonuses aren't implemented (and display Commando bonuses), and the cast count is fixed at 50 to make rotations smaller for analysis. If some of our Scoundrels and Operatives (any of you left) could plug in your stats and make sure they match and then run a couple of rotations to see if the output makes sense for how it would play or if I need to change anything, I'd appreciate it. Suggestions on relevant options such as the Commando decision of what ammo levels to cast MP and AP at would be nice, but I can always just disable all the options except rotation length and cool head activation threshold if there just aren't any interesting decisions to be had. Also, what is your set bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Oh, and can I mention how simplistic your rotation seems in comparison to the coding for Commando/Merc. Ours was straightforward in that there was no RNG, but, unless I made a mistake or misunderstood bobudo, this is what I coded: *Opener* UWM Pugnacity UWM *end Opener, start rotation* if UH=2, EMP.get to 2 SRMP and keep em upif UH<2 and Energy > 60, UWM.if all else fails, DS. Hell, I got bored just typing that. Y'all need something to mix it up and keep it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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