bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Do you honestly think that BW will buff the other two classes to the Sorcs OP level ??? If they care about their game in the slightest, yes. Nerfing is the easy way out of a problem 99% of the time. This is one of those problems that can't be fixed with a simple nerf. The truth is Sorcerer/Sage healers are not objectively Over-Powered; they just outclass the other healing classes by a significant amount. The truth of it is that they are exceptionally well-designed (you could convince me that Bioware spent most of the dev money on developing Sorcerer/Sage) and that is why they perform so well. But as it is, the Sorcerer/Sage healing class is the only one that is a fully-functioning healer. Nerfing the sole fully-functioning healer would destroy this game. It's the least-played leg of the Trinity (Tank-DPS-Heals) and the most important from a content-design standpoint (the difficulty scaling of encounters typically rests the most weight on healers). If the devs are truly in this game for the longhaul as they've said, then they need to ignore the impulse to take the easy way out, and actually fix the balance issues in the game, as opposed to just nerfing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daize Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 nice argument bobudo, but in a world of limited resources, it just ain't gonna happen that way. ten characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugugg Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) If they care about their game in the slightest, yes. Nerfing is the easy way out of a problem 99% of the time. This is one of those problems that can't be fixed with a simple nerf. The truth is Sorcerer/Sage healers are not objectively Over-Powered; they just outclass the other healing classes by a significant amount. The same could be said for crew skills, biochem vs the rest. Its easier to nerf/tweak biochem than it is give the other crew skills something on par. Same thing here. I would love to see my scoundrel buffed, especially utility wise, but it takes time so the easier option will be to nerf. I saw 800k healer by a sage last night, although I only just dinged 50, i doubt I can change my 150-220k healing in a warzone to 800k with gear alone. Edited February 17, 2012 by Ugugg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure "limited resources" means something different than "Do whatever costs the least, regardless of impact." A nerf to Sorcerer/Sage healing will ruin the game. Period. It doesn't fix any of the Operative/Scoundrel or Commando/Mercenary issues we've discussed. It would only result in 3/3 underpowered healing classes instead of 2/3. Less people will play healing --> less groups will clear content --> less people will progress through the game --> less people will play the game. Less players = less $. A fix (not a buff because that implies just fixing the numbers, which are not the true issue) to Operative/Scoundrel and Commando/Mercenary improves the game for every single player - healer or not. More groups will be able to run because more healers will be available. More healers = more groups = more content cleared = more progression = more players. More players = more $$$ (= mo' problems of course). That's why Fixing Operative/Scoundrel and Commando/Mercenary healing is the most cost efficient solution, even if it is not the easiest. Edited February 17, 2012 by bobudo mo' $ mo' problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daize Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All the best arguements in the world won't change the simple fact that it will be easier in the short run to nerf Sorcs. And tbvh, it sounds like they need a bit of a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewcreech Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 While we are discussing the efficiency, I wanted to bring some numbers to the table. Below is a calculation of the healing done per % of resources spent. Compared are the Primary Heal, the Fast Heal, and the Primary Healing Combo. Operative Kolto Injection 92.94 Kolto Infusion 101.05 -TA KI+SP 139.61 -TA Mercenary Rapid Scan 92.94 after HS: 258.17 Healing Scan 117.02 HS+RS 167.83 Sorcerer Dark Infusion 342.29 Dark Heal 194.61 after FB: 428.14 R+DI 389.97 The Sorcerer has a massive margin because his heals cost less than 10% of their total resources, whereas most heals for the other two healers cost over 10%. You can look at my numbers here Aside from cost, the main difference between the 3 primary heals is the healing coefficient. Kolto Injection and Rapid Scan are 2.72, but Dark Infusion is 3.41 which leads to a growing disparity over gear growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapher Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All the best arguements in the world won't change the simple fact that it will be easier in the short run to nerf Sorcs. And tbvh, it sounds like they need a bit of a nerf. When you say Sorcs, do you mean healing (Corruption) specifically or just Sorcs in general? While I can't really comment on their damage, as I don't know enough about it, I definitely wouldn't say their healing is overpowered. The fact is, when you build an MMO based on The Trinity, you need to keep the least played roles (healing and tanking) very satisfying because once you have a shortage of them, the entire game begins to fall apart. The amount of damage having all three specs of the same role playing poorly will do to the game is beyond repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If they care about their game in the slightest, yes. Nerfing is the easy way out of a problem 99% of the time. This is one of those problems that can't be fixed with a simple nerf. The truth is Sorcerer/Sage healers are not objectively Over-Powered; they just outclass the other healing classes by a significant amount. The truth of it is that they are exceptionally well-designed (you could convince me that Bioware spent most of the dev money on developing Sorcerer/Sage) and that is why they perform so well. But as it is, the Sorcerer/Sage healing class is the only one that is a fully-functioning healer. Nerfing the sole fully-functioning healer would destroy this game. It's the least-played leg of the Trinity (Tank-DPS-Heals) and the most important from a content-design standpoint (the difficulty scaling of encounters typically rests the most weight on healers). If the devs are truly in this game for the longhaul as they've said, then they need to ignore the impulse to take the easy way out, and actually fix the balance issues in the game, as opposed to just nerfing it out. ^^ Nerfing is a solution to people crying, but in this case, that is a symptom, not the problem. This isn't an issue of some people dying in PvP and complaining, this is about lacking the tools to perform the role, and a class exodus that is resulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 MATH!? Hey now, you be careful bringing things like reasoning and math into this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmyr Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All the best arguements in the world won't change the simple fact that it will be easier in the short run to nerf Sorcs. And tbvh, it sounds like they need a bit of a nerf. That's the problem though it wouldn't. Consider sage/sorc as operation neutral as all nightmare mode content is based on their healing. The other healers are operation negative. If Sage/Sorc were to be nerfed then they would be in the negative also. which means not only do they have to tone down nightmare mode at this point but also HM and normal. That's is why we are asking for fixes as it works in the long run and is necessary to get more healers as people enjoy different styles of healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All the best arguements in the world won't change the simple fact that it will be easier in the short run to nerf Sorcs. And tbvh, it sounds like they need a bit of a nerf. The Healer Forum runs with the assumption that the best arguments and calm, constructive discussion will eventually rule the day. Today's Q&A may show that we are all fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The Healer Forum runs with the assumption that the best arguments and calm, constructive discussion will eventually rule the day. Today's Q&A will most likely show that we are all fools. Fixed that for you :-\ Edited February 17, 2012 by bobudo Can't use italics in a quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 While we are discussing the efficiency, I wanted to bring some numbers to the table. Below is a calculation of the healing done per % of resources spent. Compared are the Primary Heal, the Fast Heal, and the Primary Healing Combo. Operative Kolto Injection 92.94 Kolto Infusion 101.05 -TA KI+SP 139.61 -TA Mercenary Rapid Scan 92.94 after HS: 258.17 Healing Scan 117.02 HS+RS 167.83 Sorcerer Dark Infusion 342.29 Dark Heal 194.61 after FB: 428.14 R+DI 389.97 The Sorcerer has a massive margin because his heals cost less than 10% of their total resources, whereas most heals for the other two healers cost over 10%. You can look at my numbers here Aside from cost, the main difference between the 3 primary heals is the healing coefficient. Kolto Injection and Rapid Scan are 2.72, but Dark Infusion is 3.41 which leads to a growing disparity over gear growth. Glad I aborted mine. I got through a lengthy work up of Commando and Scoundrel and then realized I didn't know enough about Sage rotations to estimate their efficiencies. It is worth noting that DI is a longer cast, so the 3.41 is 1.364 per second of casting, compared to 1.36 per second of cast time for UWM or MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewcreech Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) It is worth noting that DI is a longer cast, so the 3.41 is 1.364 per second of casting, compared to 1.36 per second of cast time for UWM or MP. That is true, however, in the go to combo, R+DI, the force-bending effect reduces the cast time of Dark Infusion by 1 second making R+DI faster than both KI+SP and HS+RS (and Resurgence has a cooldown of 6). I don't know what these 'metrics' are that the development team is using, but they might need to check their math. EDIT: corrected Resurgence cooldown Edited February 17, 2012 by matthewcreech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazomir Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Scoundrel, op need a more flexible healing indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanisUDL Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 That is true, however, in the go to combo, R+DI, the force-bending effect reduces the cast time of Dark Infusion by 1 second making R+DI faster than both KI+SP and HS+RS (and Resurgence has a cooldown of 9sec like Healing Scan). I don't know what these 'metrics' are that the development team is using, but they might need to check their math. Resurgence cooldown is actually only 6 seconds. Sorc will RARELY cast a DI at 2.5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewcreech Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Resurgence cooldown is actually only 6 seconds. Sorc will RARELY cast a DI at 2.5 seconds. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soshla Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Someone else mentioned my point...So here's some thread pimping. I've made a thread on Alacrity here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=308291 Sage/Sorc healers also have a clear advantage when it comes to Alacrity. It's still not a great stat, but it'll become more problematic if they make Alacrity less terrible in the future. Edited February 17, 2012 by Soshla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roccorossi Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree with OP .. I am not an Op healer I am a Powertech Tank. When I start MMO's First character is always a tank.. Second is a Healer I came to the forums to research healers.. I LOVE the idea of the Op... But after reading all of this OF COURSE i am not going to roll OP... And i dont want to be the Sroc either. I guess I am rolling JUG DPS... And they are all right Bioware.. They do deserve a response. ANY Response .. Even just "We are looking into it....." Maybe someday I can roll an OP healer with excitment that I will be needed and searched for in End game.... Until then... The OP Healers will most def Die off... My Exp is a prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapher Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, looks like Bioware gave a (reletively) long response to RuQu's question which you can find in today's Q & A. RuQu: Can you provide some details on Healer class design philosophy? Commando/Scoundrel AoE does not scale with group size due to player caps. Are they not intended to fill the raid-healer role? Scoundrels can be highly efficient, but have no tools for doing a short burst of healing. In short, what is the design intention for each of the healers, and is it intended for them to be balanced so that any possible combination is competitive in Operations, or is a certain mix expected? Georg Zoeller: Our stance is that all full healer specs should be viable for all type of content, which is the case, even for 16 man Operations. Our own players have no issues clearing any of the content in the game, on all difficulty levels, with any healer spec. Data from the Live game shows Operations, at all sizes, being successfully run with Commando and Scoundrel healers. It is expected for certain Operations bosses to create challenges for different healer archetypes (e.g. due to mobility requirements), but overall, every healer archetype is capable of successfully healing through any Operations and Flashpoint content in the game (currently and in the future). With regards to your question about Commando/Scoundrel Area of Effect healing not scaling to group size, please understand that no heal, on any class, scales with group size. The most powerful Area of Effect heals in the game (Salvation/Revivification) affects up to 8 players, but does not scale with group size. These abilities are very costly, have an activation time requirement and require the targets to stand in a localized area for ten seconds to receive the full benefit. We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb. As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we don’t agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed. That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). For example, we are shifting the healing created by the Kolto Cloud ability to be front loaded in 1.2 to allow it to act as an emergency Area of Effect healing tool. Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so. In short, they do not feel there is any significant inequality amongst the healers as all three specs can complete current and future content but they concede that there is room for minor improvements. So there it is. Official word from the devs that they do not see any fundamental problems with our class and that we only require tweaking. Well I suppose this is it. Truthfully I had already suspected Bioware did not have the resources nor experience to efficiently balance an MMO, but this just confirmed it. That said, I would like to personally thank Bobudo and RuQu for all their hard work with not only identifying the imbalance between healers, but doing so with a level of grace and thoroughness that is unfortunately far too rare on gaming forums. You both did right by the community and we appreciate it. God speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Not so fast Mister! That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). That's PR speak for "We ****ed up." That "a sizable chunk" of improvements is in for 1.2 confirms it. (Druids didn't start getting fixed until 1.6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doki Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Not so fast Mister! That's PR speak for "We ****ed up." That "a sizable chunk" of improvements is in for 1.2 confirms it. (Druids didn't start getting fixed until 1.6) Disagree: its more like "We fudged up, but we're going to do nothing about it". That post was a miserable pile of fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophetic Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Today's Q&A may show that we are all fools. Winner!!! Can you provide some details on Healer class design philosophy? Commando/Scoundrel AoE does not scale with group size due to player caps. Are they not intended to fill the raid-healer role? Scoundrels can be highly efficient, but have no tools for doing a short burst of healing. In short, what is the design intention for each of the healers, and is it intended for them to be balanced so that any possible combination is competitive in Operations, or is a certain mix expected? Our stance is that all full healer specs should be viable for all type of content, which is the case, even for 16 man Operations. Our own players have no issues clearing any of the content in the game, on all difficulty levels, with any healer spec. Data from the Live game shows Operations, at all sizes, being successfully run with Commando and Scoundrel healers. It is expected for certain Operations bosses to create challenges for different healer archetypes (e.g. due to mobility requirements), but overall, every healer archetype is capable of successfully healing through any Operations and Flashpoint content in the game (currently and in the future). With regards to your question about Commando/Scoundrel Area of Effect healing not scaling to group size, please understand that no heal, on any class, scales with group size. The most powerful Area of Effect heals in the game (Salvation/Revivification) affects up to 8 players, but does not scale with group size. These abilities are very costly, have an activation time requirement and require the targets to stand in a localized area for ten seconds to receive the full benefit. We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb. As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we don’t agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed. That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). For example, we are shifting the healing created by the Kolto Cloud ability to be front loaded in 1.2 to allow it to act as an emergency Area of Effect healing tool. Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so. Have they even PLAYED the Scoundrel/Operative class? Of course I CAN clear content. The problem is that I can clear it more easily and effectively AS A SAGE! I'm so angry right now. They seem to think that ONE operation is giving us trouble. How about THE ENTIRE DAMN GAME being more challenging for a Scoundrel. I need to take a break. I'm about to scream. Oh, and did you catch that last part? Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so. Sounds like a Sorcerer/Sage nerf to me. Apparently they just don't give a damn. At least they're doing something about Kolto Cloud. The fact that they seem to think, "Oh, Operatives/Scoundrels are fine" is pissing me off, though. Edited February 17, 2012 by Prophetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darieltis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, looks like Bioware gave a (reletively) long response to RuQu's question which you can find in today's Q & A. In short, they do not feel there is any significant inequality amongst the healers as all three specs can complete current and future content but they concede that there is room for minor improvements. So there it is. Official word from the devs that they do not see any fundamental problems with our class and that we only require tweaking. Well I suppose this is it. Truthfully I had already suspected Bioware did not have the resources nor experience to efficiently balance an MMO, but this just confirmed it. That said, I would like to personally thank Bobudo and RuQu for all their hard work with not only identifying the imbalance between healers, but doing so with a level of grace and thoroughness that is unfortunately far too rare on gaming forums. You both did right by the community and we appreciate it. God speed. Agreed. I prefer to assume that in situations like the imbalance between healers, Bioware was simply unaware, and needed to have the issue brought forth for intelligent discussion - and a big thank you as well to Bobudo & RuQu from me as well for their efforts here! Today, my desire to accept ignorance as an excuse was shown for the fallacy it is...the imbalance has been demonstrated, but the word from above is that it does not exist. While I understand the appeal of blinders, Bioware has just alienated another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuQu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) It may not be exactly the answer we wanted, but it is the longest Dev response I've seen in a long time, and I read most of the beta Q&As as well. I think we can at least say that the consistent, constructive, polite feedback does get results, and I think it is worthwhile for us to stay that course. I, personally, found the tone standoffish and off-putting, but tone is hard to read through the internet without better cues, so that could also be my projecting the defensive position the Healers feel put in. Let's look at what was actually said: RuQu: Can you provide some details on Healer class design philosophy? Commando/Scoundrel AoE does not scale with group size due to player caps. Are they not intended to fill the raid-healer role? Scoundrels can be highly efficient, but have no tools for doing a short burst of healing. In short, what is the design intention for each of the healers, and is it intended for them to be balanced so that any possible combination is competitive in Operations, or is a certain mix expected? First and foremost, yay for getting my question chosen and such a long response. Georg Zoeller: Our stance is that all full healer specs should be viable for all type of content, which is the case, even for 16 man Operations. Our own players have no issues clearing any of the content in the game, on all difficulty levels, with any healer spec. Data from the Live game shows Operations, at all sizes, being successfully run with Commando and Scoundrel healers. It is expected for certain Operations bosses to create challenges for different healer archetypes (e.g. due to mobility requirements), but overall, every healer archetype is capable of successfully healing through any Operations and Flashpoint content in the game (currently and in the future). First, we do need to acknowledge how hard it is to write such a long response knowing that every word will be picked over (as I'm about to) with a fine toothed comb, especially because the Devs have no way of knowing exactly what words in my first question I considered the most important. As such, we can't expect them to understand our intentions perfectly, nor expect perfect responses. That said....on to tearing it apart! Note the bolded words. In my question I asked if any combination would be competitve, the response was about viability. Many of the Scoundrels and Operatives reporting in here have said they can clear content, they just can't do it as well. Viable and capable are synonyms here, competitive is not. The tone of this paragraph put me on bad footing for the rest of it, as it comes across as dismissive of the problem, likely due to misinterpreting competitive to mean viable. With regards to your question about Commando/Scoundrel Area of Effect healing not scaling to group size, please understand that no heal, on any class, scales with group size. The most powerful Area of Effect heals in the game (Salvation/Revivification) affects up to 8 players, but does not scale with group size. These abilities are very costly, have an activation time requirement and require the targets to stand in a localized area for ten seconds to receive the full benefit. We plan on improving the overall Area of Effect healing performance of the Mercenary/Commando in the next major Game Update (1.2) by increasing the number of targets affected by Kolto Missile/Kolto Bomb. 1) This is the first confirmation Salv is limited to 8. Good to know. 2) I'd say healing every player for the same amount whether it is 1-8 is scaling to group size in my definition. The Healing per Cast Time and Healing Per Resource Spent both increase as the number of players increase. What is true is that the spell itself doesn't change, like some WoW AoEs that would heal every player over X for less than the first X. 3) While 8 would be nice, I'm guessing it is moving to 4. Not what I wanted, not what I'm hoping for, but acceptable. No word on smart-healing. As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we don’t agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed. That said, we certainly think there’s room for improvements (and our upcoming Game Update 1.2 has a sizeable chunk of such improvements). For example, we are shifting the healing created by the Kolto Cloud ability to be front loaded in 1.2 to allow it to act as an emergency Area of Effect healing tool. While I'm not a Scoundrel, I think I have enough of a handle on how people play them to know that you can't stack and hold onto UH. Any time you are at 2 and not spending it is wasted UH procs, therefore their usage gets rolled into the standard rotation. With a coefficient of 1.38, a single EMP is not sufficient to count as burst on its own, and that is all you can get out of the 1UH you tend to carry. I found this paragraph off-putting as it seemed ignorant of the way the class is played while stating disagreement with the complaints of those who play it. Again, I'm not a Scoundrel, but that's how I read it. The section in bold, however, is turnabout. Sadly the first half of the paragraph was off-putting enough to not notice the good news at the bottom of it until rereading it. They admit something is wrong. I, for one, had stated I'd be happy with a one line response of "We have not forgotten you." Admission that work is needed is even better.Changes are coming soonish - in 1.2The changes are "sizable." This suggests they are not just adjusting coefficients and costs, but actually putting work into it.AoE is getting looked at. The change to Kolto Cloud / RN should greatly increase the utility of that ability, especially as it is instant. Changing the way the ability works (front-loading) provides additional evidence that they are planning to make reasonable modifications, not just number tweaking.I'd be a little happier if they had mentioned a change to any ability that was similar to any of the community suggested changes in the compilation thread. That would demonstrate that they had read it, considered it, and went in a similar (if slightly different) direction. Finally, the perception of a specific class being not desirable can also be affected by the desirability of other classes. For example, Sage/Inquisitor healers are currently able to exceed our intended healing performance at times by affecting multiple heals with the same Conveyance/Force Bending buff. Game Update 1.2 will remove the ability to do so. If you look at their skill tree, it is explicit that the buff affects the next 1 ability. This is a bug fix, not a nerf. That said, the first half of that paragraph had an ominous tone... Maybe not the changes we wanted, but changes, are coming. Real changes even by the looks of things, and they have not forgotten we are here. Edited February 17, 2012 by RuQu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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