Boring Static World of SWTOR

[Blarpped]

I hadn't played an MMO in about a year before I started playing this game. At first I was very excited to be playing a Star Wars MMO, and even more excited by the fully voiced questing experience; it added a lot to the game IMO. However, after having played for over a month, the environments make me miss WoW, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

I hung out in Stormwind. There was a Cathedral. A spiraling Mage tower. A market district. Pubs, and vendors who had their own shops. A big bay area. A towering castle. An underground jail that doubled as an instance. Critters could be seen scurrying around. All these separate areas had NPC's walking around doing whatever it was that they do. All of the areas had a unique look. Star Wars has none of this. We have a big circle that is more like a shopping mall with zombies for NPC's than a thriving central hub for players.

 

Bioware missed the mark in terms of making environments feel atmospheric and alive IMO. I found the fleet museum the other day and thought it was a really cool addition, but it would have been a lot nicer had there been NPC's walking around from exhibit to exhibit talking amongst themselves. Little things like that set MMO's apart in my eyes.

 

In a year I won't remember flying to the fleet for the first time and being blown away by the enormity and grandeur of it. I still remember walking to Jeuno for the first time in FFXI and being awestruck by the towering city. I remember the gates of Ironforge. I remember the arches of Stormwind. I'll never remember the lifeless circle of the Imperial Fleet.

 

Something is missing in the environments of this game. For a company all about immersion, depth, and story, they blew it in this department.

[Snowcrashed]

The game is lifeless, I realized this as soon as I went to coruscant and ended up with an empty senate plaza, and a few long hallways to run around in for a couple hours while I wondered why I couldnt explore any of the interesting parts of coruscant.

 

There is no quick fix, its just the way things are, they designed the game based on single player concepts and mmo designs from 5+ years ago and paired it with a horrible engine that will never allow busy npc filled areas.

 

And since planets have a player cap its not even possible for them to feel full from pure player activity since people get dumped into a new instance when the planet starts to feel like its even slightly busy.

[Oceanzen]

I have a hunch that what happened was they had to axe most of their ideas for making the world feel more lush and dynamic because with the engine and coding they have, you would have to run it on DARPA to get more than 10 frames per second.

[Xaeberain]

I hadn't played an MMO in about a year before I started playing this game. At first I was very excited to be playing a Star Wars MMO, and even more excited by the fully voiced questing experience; it added a lot to the game IMO. However, after having played for over a month, the environments make me miss WoW, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

I hung out in Stormwind. There was a Cathedral. A spiraling Mage tower. A market district. Pubs, and vendors who had their own shops. A big bay area. A towering castle. An underground jail that doubled as an instance. Critters could be seen scurrying around. All these separate areas had NPC's walking around doing whatever it was that they do. All of the areas had a unique look. Star Wars has none of this. We have a big circle that is more like a shopping mall with zombies for NPC's than a thriving central hub for players.

 

Bioware missed the mark in terms of making environments feel atmospheric and alive IMO. I found the fleet museum the other day and thought it was a really cool addition, but it would have been a lot nicer had there been NPC's walking around from exhibit to exhibit talking amongst themselves. Little things like that set MMO's apart in my eyes.

 

In a year I won't remember flying to the fleet for the first time and being blown away by the enormity and grandeur of it. I still remember walking to Jeuno for the first time in FFXI and being awestruck by the towering city. I remember the gates of Ironforge. I remember the arches of Stormwind. I'll never remember the lifeless circle of the Imperial Fleet.

 

Something is missing in the environments of this game. For a company all about immersion, depth, and story, they blew it in this department.

 

Very striking visualization. I agree 100%.

There are moments in epic games where you have no choice but to sit back and marvel at the gradeur of certain areas or set pieces etc.

Star Wars (the movies) were all about those amazing moments where somthing just blew you away with it's monumental beauty.

TOR is just mediocre when it comes to that. There's no moment of awestruck excitment at seeing a city or landscape or anything for that matter.

Couple all that with a mediocre game and you have a poor representation of what Star Wars is suppose to be.

[Cerion]

There's no moment of awestruck excitment at seeing a city or landscape or anything for that matter.

 

For you. Every planet I visited, and have visited thus far, has struck me with awe. WoW never did that for me...it was just another generic fantasy setting.

 

Just tonight I was looking at a map at a shuttle port trying to decide on a destination, and I noticed a guard pace back and forth as they're want to do. But then I noticed something odd..about half way through his sojourn, he glanced down. I was like...what's he looking at? Well the oaf was glancing down at this female tech's posterior, lol. She was fixing a shuttle, and every time he walked by, he'd glance down at her ***. I just about died laughing. Of course there's far more than this in SWTOR, but that'll serve as a point for now.

 

Some of you think that WoW is the only game that has little details in the environment (or that WoW invented that)...news for you newbs...it didn't. And this game has little details as well, if you're not blinded by hate for it. Think about that cliched statement for a moment "Blinded by hatred". It comes from somewhere, right? Truth is, people become blind with hate and rage, and refuse to see.

[RycheMykola]

I hadn't played an MMO in about a year before I started playing this game. At first I was very excited to be playing a Star Wars MMO, and even more excited by the fully voiced questing experience; it added a lot to the game IMO. However, after having played for over a month, the environments make me miss WoW, and I didn't think that was possible.

 

I hung out in Stormwind. There was a Cathedral. A spiraling Mage tower. A market district. Pubs, and vendors who had their own shops. A big bay area. A towering castle. An underground jail that doubled as an instance. Critters could be seen scurrying around. All these separate areas had NPC's walking around doing whatever it was that they do. All of the areas had a unique look. Star Wars has none of this. We have a big circle that is more like a shopping mall with zombies for NPC's than a thriving central hub for players.

 

Bioware missed the mark in terms of making environments feel atmospheric and alive IMO. I found the fleet museum the other day and thought it was a really cool addition, but it would have been a lot nicer had there been NPC's walking around from exhibit to exhibit talking amongst themselves. Little things like that set MMO's apart in my eyes.

 

In a year I won't remember flying to the fleet for the first time and being blown away by the enormity and grandeur of it. I still remember walking to Jeuno for the first time in FFXI and being awestruck by the towering city. I remember the gates of Ironforge. I remember the arches of Stormwind. I'll never remember the lifeless circle of the Imperial Fleet.

 

Something is missing in the environments of this game. For a company all about immersion, depth, and story, they blew it in this department.

 

If you look around in SWTOR, you will see things. There are far more NPC's doing things in game than in WOW. Inns, stores, etc ALL LOOK THE SAME IN WOW. every Inn has the same design. There is nothing in the Inns (well, besides being able to sit in a chair). Where's the Music, heck, they should at least do something like Skyrim and have a person playing an intrument. I walked into a Cantina in SWTOR, the bartender waved to me. There's people dancing. There's holo dancers. Whats going on in the Inns and Bars in WOW? NOT ONE THING.

The Church in SW? NO ONE MOVES IN IT. You have the same 3 people standing up by the Altar, the same trainers standing around, etc.

 

The Guards just stand around too, minus the 1 or 2 walking around patrolling. Heck, a single enemy mob can wreck the city.

 

IF? Awesome, glad the gates rock! Otherwise its completely lifeless. Maybe a bot or 2 in the city because everyone is in SW.

 

So, when I try GW2, I am going to stare at the ground for 30 minutes and say the world is lifeless .

[Blarpped]

If you look around in SWTOR, you will see things. There are far more NPC's doing things in game than in WOW. Inns, stores, etc ALL LOOK THE SAME IN WOW. every Inn has the same design. There is nothing in the Inns (well, besides being able to sit in a chair). Where's the Music, heck, they should at least do something like Skyrim and have a person playing an intrument. I walked into a Cantina in SWTOR, the bartender waved to me. There's people dancing. There's holo dancers. Whats going on in the Inns and Bars in WOW? NOT ONE THING.

The Church in SW? NO ONE MOVES IN IT. You have the same 3 people standing up by the Altar, the same trainers standing around, etc.

 

The Guards just stand around too, minus the 1 or 2 walking around patrolling. Heck, a single enemy mob can wreck the city.

 

IF? Awesome, glad the gates rock! Otherwise its completely lifeless. Maybe a bot or 2 in the city because everyone is in SW.

 

So, when I try GW2, I am going to stare at the ground for 30 minutes and say the world is lifeless .

 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I have to disagree. WoW always felt alive and the cities always felt like thriving central hubs. I just don't get that from SWTOR. The hubs in TOR feel like shopping malls. There's no atmosphere other than one of sterility.

 

It's not like I haven't been looking for these things. I didn't log in for 30 minutes, look around one planet and proclaim the game is lifeless.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Averran
rude

[areto]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I have to disagree. WoW always felt alive and the cities always felt like thriving central hubs. I just don't get that from SWTOR. The hubs in TOR feel like shopping malls. There's no atmosphere other than one of sterility.

 

It's not like I haven't been looking for these things. I didn't log in for 30 minutes, look around one planet and proclaim the game is lifeless.

 

Do you think it might just be the sci-fi setting? straight edges, battleship grey and corridors.. There are some little patches of life in sw:tor, yet they have so little impact, it's kind of strange.

 

I can think of a few movie examples where sci-fi environs feel full of life like 5th element or blade runner. But I can't think of any games in particular, do you know of any?

 

I hope I don't somehow come across as arguing with you, I'm just interested in what the problem actually is from a design stand point.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Averran
edited quote

[CrimsonFire]

First mmo that I've played where my character has no idle animations. Even F2P DCUO's characters breath and look around when idling. Stand up planking in SWTOR :S

[Halvos]

If you look around in SWTOR, you will see things. There are far more NPC's doing things in game than in WOW. Inns, stores, etc ALL LOOK THE SAME IN WOW. every Inn has the same design. There is nothing in the Inns (well, besides being able to sit in a chair). Where's the Music, heck, they should at least do something like Skyrim and have a person playing an intrument. I walked into a Cantina in SWTOR, the bartender waved to me. There's people dancing. There's holo dancers. Whats going on in the Inns and Bars in WOW? NOT ONE THING.

The Church in SW? NO ONE MOVES IN IT. You have the same 3 people standing up by the Altar, the same trainers standing around, etc.

 

The Guards just stand around too, minus the 1 or 2 walking around patrolling. Heck, a single enemy mob can wreck the city.

 

IF? Awesome, glad the gates rock! Otherwise its completely lifeless. Maybe a bot or 2 in the city because everyone is in SW.

 

So, when I try GW2, I am going to stare at the ground for 30 minutes and say the world is lifeless .

 

You do realize all the stuff you are trying to pin on WoW is exactly the same with SWTOR, just worse. Guards, everyone someone else, npcs standing still, all stuff that goes to show SWTOR didn't try to do anything to make their worlds come alive. Also, you said you could hear music in the Inns, was your speakers off? At least WoW has music on repeat so it doesn't just get dead quiet like a certain game I can think of (hint: you're defending it).

 

I do like how you mentioned sitting on a chair in WoW though. You'd be surprised how much immersion is added when you can actually click on things. Every npc in WoW can be clicked on. In SWTOR they may as well be paintings because you can't even target them. Anyway, enjoy living in your little bubble.

[areto]

First mmo that I've played where my character has no idle animations. Even F2P DCUO's characters breath and look around when idling. Stand up planking in SWTOR :S

 

They do breath if you look carefully, and after a very long while sometimes they might look around or something. The weird thing is they have idle animations in the character select menu which would be perfect.

[Dumpiduke]

If you look around in SWTOR, you will see things. There are far more NPC's doing things in game than in WOW. Inns, stores, etc ALL LOOK THE SAME IN WOW. every Inn has the same design. There is nothing in the Inns (well, besides being able to sit in a chair). Where's the Music, heck, they should at least do something like Skyrim and have a person playing an intrument. I walked into a Cantina in SWTOR, the bartender waved to me. There's people dancing. There's holo dancers. Whats going on in the Inns and Bars in WOW? NOT ONE THING.

The Church in SW? NO ONE MOVES IN IT. You have the same 3 people standing up by the Altar, the same trainers standing around, etc.

 

The Guards just stand around too, minus the 1 or 2 walking around patrolling. Heck, a single enemy mob can wreck the city.

 

IF? Awesome, glad the gates rock! Otherwise its completely lifeless. Maybe a bot or 2 in the city because everyone is in SW.

 

So, when I try GW2, I am going to stare at the ground for 30 minutes and say the world is lifeless .

 

I don't think it's so much that there isn't ANY of this, but rather that it's harder to notice for a variety of reasons. First off, the massive landscapes are so open that it really detracts from the details that are presented. The senate building on Corruscant is a perfect example of this. The building is simply too massive to house such a piddly amount of NPC's. I get that things in Star Wars are supposed to be massive, but it really makes the world feel completely barren.

 

Furthermore, the game really lacks in the sound department. How many times do you find yourself wondering where in the hell the music is while you're stomping all over the galaxy? This game has epic music, but we don't hear enough of it. It bugs me to no end. Music is a significant driver of emotions, yet we have very little in TOR. You could argue that I could play my own music, but I shouldn't have to search my playlist for the right track that fits the current area that I'm in.

 

Don't even get me started on the fleets. Talk about a boring place to spend the majority of your time in the game. Why do we have these beautiful planets if we hardly spend any time gathering there? I'd much rather have the social hub be on Dromund Kaas or Tatooine, but those places just don't have the accessibility of the fleets. It sucks.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Dumpiduke

[RycheMykola]

You do realize all the stuff you are trying to pin on WoW is exactly the same with SWTOR, just worse. Guards, everyone someone else, npcs standing still, all stuff that goes to show SWTOR didn't try to do anything to make their worlds come alive. Also, you said you could hear music in the Inns, was your speakers off? At least WoW has music on repeat so it doesn't just get dead quiet like a certain game I can think of (hint: you're defending it).

 

I do like how you mentioned sitting on a chair in WoW though. You'd be surprised how much immersion is added when you can actually click on things. Every npc in WoW can be clicked on. In SWTOR they may as well be paintings because you can't even target them. Anyway, enjoy living in your little bubble.

Yes, it would be cool if Bioware made it so that you can sit in chairs (not every chair is "sittable" in WOW either).

 

BG music in WOW is better than SWTOR. BUT, I was just talking about the comparison between SWTOR Cantinas and WOW Inn's. There's a lot more going on for the SWTOR side. Even for a 100 credits you could request a song from a list. WOW doesn't have any performers, musicians, etc inside there inns and bars. Heck, even SWTOR has people sitting at the bar drinking (granted, you can't click or do anything with them, but they are there). Heck, I would figure Ironforge would have bigger Inn's-Bars than SW, where's all the Dwarfs drinking?

 

Sure, you could also click on NPC's in WOW and they say the same 7 things to cycle through. SWTOR - you can't even target them. But the NPC's in SWTOR do far more activities than the NPC's in WOW.

 

WOW - birds flying overhead. SWTOR - starships, stardestroyers, dog fights, etc. I'd say both are equal.

 

Dynamic weather and day/night - WOW wins. Non-existant in SWTOR (minus a blizzard on Hoth or rain on DK).

 

Too say SWTOR is lifeless though, is pretty far fetched. Personally, I would have liked to see a different "hub" than the Fleet Locations. (the center cantina i love at least, love the music that has the sax in it too!).

[Azazal]

This game is even more designed for carebares, In the game we shall not mention here, there were big robots called reavers walking arround and shoot you dead if you happen to not notice them.

 

I was expecting things like this in SWtor to be even worse because the bots should be alot bigger here than goblin made piles of scrap walking about...

 

In Swtor the designers were frikn affraid people would get squashed when afk in the middle of the world and a walker walked right over them... Carebare game :/ I want more happening in the worlds of SWTOR!!!

 

Even in SWG wich was allready very static AT-AT's would walk arround and shoot a laser in your eye from 200m away.

[Blarpped]

Do you think it might just be the sci-fi setting? straight edges, battleship grey and corridors.. There are some little patches of life in sw:tor, yet they have so little impact, it's kind of strange.

 

I can think of a few movie examples where sci-fi environs feel full of life like 5th element or blade runner. But I can't think of any games in particular, do you know of any?

 

I hope I don't somehow come across as arguing with you, I'm just interested in what the problem actually is from a design stand point.

 

I think that's probably a big part of why the fleets feel so sterile and lifeless. It's like a cubicle farm; it's just a soul sucking experience. But we're talking about the Star Wars universe here. Coruscant certainly didn't seem like a city that spans an entire planet or feel like the capital of the Republic. Then there's the more terrestrial planets like Voss. The terrain itself is fantastic, but there are no big set-pieces or dramatic vistas. There's no small settlements to explore outside of the quest hubs. The NPC's stand there and do not move. No dynamic weather or day/night cycle. This all adds to the perception that the areas are lifeless IMO.

 

I think some zones are meant to feel desolate and lifeless. Hoth does a great job of that. It's a hopeless feeling stepping out from the bunker for the first time. Others though, particularly the fleet, I feel are simply weird design choices; a place where level 50 players will spend a huge amount of time should be more than a black and grey, poorly lit shopping mall.

 

Bioware has one of the biggest sci-fi IP's to work with here. They're not confined to grey and black color pallets. They have planets that are very much alive and massively populated in the lore, but that doesn't translate into the game. The possibilities are endless, and I hope they can eventually mix things up a bit.

[lyyr]

Can't say I disagree.

I feel no immersion in this game whatsoever.. and yes this saddens me a lot!

[areto]

Can't say I disagree.

I feel no immersion in this game whatsoever.. and yes this saddens me a lot!

 

Oh come now, you can't say you've felt none at all, at least the first few conversations must of been pretty cool!

[RycheMykola]

Can't say I disagree.

I feel no immersion in this game whatsoever.. and yes this saddens me a lot!

 

I felt the same about WOW. Everyone has different opinions.

[Azazal]

Seems i have to play a frikn panda after all

[RycheMykola]

Seems i have to play a frikn panda after all

 

LOL. Just stay away from Pokemon!

[Kaedian]

I loved the questing. I enjoy my character development. Tython seemed pretty interesting... At first glance.

 

However most worlds are so static and boring. Besides the occasional group of empire or republic soldier standing around or huddled behind a barricade forever shooting over it, the world feels so empty and static.

 

Nothing moves around, there is no hustle and bustle of the world. No NPC events or occurrences. Ilum is supposed to be this big battlefield but really its a bunch of people standing around. Fleet feels so empty if their aren't players running around.

 

Its hard to immerse yourself in such a static and stagnant world. Even older MMOs have made the world feel at least somewhat inhabited and interesting.

 

Ilum would be so much more fun if it was a giant war, full of NPC's running around and fighting each other, instead we get big stupid walkers just sitting there ready for us to walk up to, picnic around it, then if we are bored, shoot a missile at it.

 

<Yawn>

 

 

1. Worlds have static immobile NPCs.

2. Playerbase complains that worlds have no activity, no soul.

3. Devs add pathing to npcs and increase npc count and conversations.

4. Playerbase complains about load times and fps performance loss due to increased and mobile npcs.

 

The game is a backdrop for what YOU do, not the other way around.

[Melkathi]

Hutta and Ord Mantell I found pretty boring. I enjoyed Taris as an environment and thought "Hey maybe the game isn't as sterile and unimersive as I thought when I saw Coruscant, Dromund Kaas and Balmorra" but the feeling subsided to "a beautiful map" very quickly (once I was past the soldiers at the entrance of the first settlement). Still at least Taris has the senator's speech in the spaceport.

hen I reached Tatooine I thought things were really going to be better. I like desert planets (old Dune fan). So I decided "Let's not take a taxi - I am going to ride my speeder through the desert and take in the sights!" so I speedered out of Anchorhead and... hit the exhaustion zone.

Way to kill the fun of explorers.

Bioware pretty much tells us "We have big planets! You can look at them... while on a predetermined Taxi ride. If you want to move around yourself, do it in the pre-determined leveling areas."

Meh.

[Thaerakiel]

There is no quick fix, its just the way things are, they designed the game based on single player concepts and mmo designs from 5+ years ago and paired it with a horrible engine that will never allow busy npc filled areas.

 

This is exactly it.

 

This is as good as it will probably get, and I can't imagine what the lag would be like if they did try to fill the cities up with life or an atmosphere or even live events.

 

My computer isn't brand new or anything but I can usually run most MMOs without much lag like EVE, Champions, Star Trek, LOTRO even Rift. For a game world this empty and the graphics being as poor as they are the lag here is pretty bad.

 

I do like this game and I feel all of the voice acting for every mission really did help a lot with the normal boring mission grinding found in all of the MMOs listed above. However for that to be the total focus and have pretty much everything else lacking makes me feel that it won't be a difficult decision to switch MMOs when a new one comes along like maybe Tera or Firefall.

[Nicholes]

Agree with the OP. It is one of the reasons I ended my sub this month. ONE of the reasons.. there are plenty of reasons, including how a guild of friends went from 67 active members down to 7 over the course of this month. Shame on you bioware

[orangefishboy]

Hutta and Ord Mantell I found pretty boring. I enjoyed Taris as an environment and thought "Hey maybe the game isn't as sterile and unimersive as I thought when I saw Coruscant, Dromund Kaas and Balmorra" but the feeling subsided to "a beautiful map" very quickly (once I was past the soldiers at the entrance of the first settlement). Still at least Taris has the senator's speech in the spaceport.

hen I reached Tatooine I thought things were really going to be better. I like desert planets (old Dune fan). So I decided "Let's not take a taxi - I am going to ride my speeder through the desert and take in the sights!" so I speedered out of Anchorhead and... hit the exhaustion zone.

Way to kill the fun of explorers.

Bioware pretty much tells us "We have big planets! You can look at them... while on a predetermined Taxi ride. If you want to move around yourself, do it in the pre-determined leveling areas."

Meh.

 

That's EXACTLY what I did on Tatooine!