Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[TelamonSedai]

I know you were but I still don't think that means you can make an argument and then get away with being a hypocrite. You have any sources for those numbers?

 

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

If anything my numbers are low. TBC launched Jan of 07, WoTLK end of 08, Cata Dec 2011. Almost none of there growth happened after LFG was implemented.

[Thaed]

Same-server wouldn't see any major negatives. Cross-server does detract from the sense of community though (the "I'm never going to see them again, why should I bother being polite?" mentality, mainly).

[Kaelshi]

Its funny because I was actually agreeing with you, and no none of those are random, I played since Vanilla, I paid attention to sub numbers when they were published. Most people like to play the it didn't get big subs until it was made easy, that's what I was referring to, and to some extent the 14 million number you threw out. Either way I was agreeing with you...

 

 

you - along with everyone else - have never explained what was broken in the community by LFG.

 

I can only assume you mean what - its harder for you to find people not using the LFG tool and form groups with?

 

So the years and years that passed since Vanilla was not enough time for you to build enough relationships to have a group of people to group with?

 

You can't be referring to anything else - I remember barrens chat. I recall that pretty much every night on every server there are typically hours of trade chat involving the world A NAL and then shift clicking skills and items after it.

 

Some kid earlier said he and his rl friends in their guild got burnt out because the community is crushed. You guys are just saying community because you heard someone else say it.

 

You dont even know what you are talking about.

[Kaelshi]

Same-server wouldn't see any major negatives. Cross-server does detract from the sense of community though (the "I'm never going to see them again, why should I bother being polite?" mentality, mainly).

 

You have evidence of this? How do you know the person who was a jerk to you is not a jerk to everyone?(answer - you don't) LFG is not causing people to be jerks. It's allowing most people to join dungeons groups a HECK of a lot more often which is just putting them in contact with jerks.

 

Why would how someone acts on another server "break" the community of YOUR server?

 

People are just repeating this as if it makes sense and it does not.

[Emeda]

You...really think Blizzard's staffed, designed, engineered and marketed by an autistic goldfish?

 

You'd have to if you believe that they were somehow unaware that in their gear-driven game wherein loot acquisition is the be-all and ultimate end-all of character progression, that people wouldn't be using LFR and LFD alike for loot.

 

Yeah, it's definitely easy mode. It's so easy that the people that haven't been motivated by the loot-lure to raid before can get in there, get some loot, maybe pick up a fondness for raiding while they're at it and want to stick around for X more years doing what WoW does best; raidy gear-grindy game stuff.

 

It's so easy that the people that have been howling for years that they couldn't see the content for reasons A through Z now have very little left to gripe about; there it is. There's the Cataclysm raid; more will come in the future and be LFR'd. Have some gimped down tier gear for your trouble, thanks for paying and playing.

 

 

Seriously, they're not nearly so stupid as you must believe them to be if you honestly think they didn't both expect and -count on- that.

 

So blizzard introduced LFR as a way to get easy loot and not so people could actual get a group to play the game and see content.

 

Players without having LFR made groups for the PVP raid and saw the content with only using players from their server.

 

And your calling it a success so Bioware should add it also so people can get a group to see the content when even you just said thats not why people use it.

 

So we need this so that we can get groups even though blizzard had to make it stupid easy and give out free gear so people would use it often so they could call it a success. Should Bioware also nerf the already easy heroics (which are not heroic but really just lower level flashpoints tuned to level 50 instead of the lower level) so that people will run them so they become a success also.

[Kaelshi]

So blizzard introduced LFR as a way to get easy loot and not so people could actual get a group to play the game and see content.

 

Players without having LFR made groups for the PVP raid and saw the content with only using players from their server.

 

And your calling it a success so Bioware should add it also so people can get a group to see the content when even you just said thats not why people use it.

 

So we need this so that we can get groups even though blizzard had to make it stupid easy and give out free gear so people would use it often so they could call it a success. Should Bioware also nerf the already easy heroics (which are not heroic but really just lower level flashpoints tuned to level 50 instead of the lower level) so that people will run them so they become a success also.

 

I am completely confused by this as well.

 

As far as I know Blizzard introduced LFG and LFR so people who typically would/could not experience that content would have the opportunity(people like me for instance who had never been on a 25-man raid prior to LFR).

 

I dont recall anyone giving me any free gear. I was just able to jump into a group, do content, and earn the gear...the same way I would earn it if I had been forced to spend hours putting a group together spamming a chat channel.

 

so whats the problem again?

 

 

oh wait - editing this because I just now remembered the problem - people are mad that unlike some of them during the time they had available to spend mindlessly spamming chat, I was just not able to be logged on and do the content - and now I can do the same content they were forced to spend 10x's the amount of time as me and are pissy about it.

 

awhhhhwwww poor babies. huggles. Man I didnt have to spam chat ONCE to find a group for any heroics I ever did in wow! awesome for me!

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kaelshi

[Emeda]

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

 

If anything my numbers are low. TBC launched Jan of 07, WoTLK end of 08, Cata Dec 2011. Almost none of there growth happened after LFG was implemented.

 

From that chart it looks like they never had a decline in subs until casual friendly wrath was released.

 

Also from the the chart if all the casuals quit because cata was to hard that means there are only 2 million casuals max and 10 million hardcore players. Have to love when the minority is 5x larger than the majority.

[TelamonSedai]

you - along with everyone else - have never explained what was broken in the community by LFG.

 

I can only assume you mean what - its harder for you to find people not using the LFG tool and form groups with?

 

So the years and years that passed since Vanilla was not enough time for you to build enough relationships to have a group of people to group with?

 

You can't be referring to anything else - I remember barrens chat. I recall that pretty much every night on every server there are typically hours of trade chat involving the world A NAL and then shift clicking skills and items after it.

 

Some kid earlier said he and his rl friends in their guild got burnt out because the community is crushed. You guys are just saying community because you heard someone else say it.

 

You dont even know what you are talking about.

 

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away on the small world of Azeroth there was an amazing thing that happened, people made friends in the game. People would form groups, get to know others, run instances, talk, what have you. If you needed a group for something you could ask these people you had on your friends list, and if you weren't a terrible player, or a ninja, or any other form of undesirable, it was rather easy to make groups happen.

 

Then due to the incessant crying of the vocal minority Blizz implemented a cross server LFG system. From this moment forward, being an ***, a bad player, a ninja or anything else didn't matter at all. No one talked to each other any more, and it became a game of faceless nameless drones. People don't make friends with anyone, there's no interaction, no community what so ever, there is you, the people in your guild, assuming you even talk to them and aren't just there for the perks, and an endless sea of faceless drones to get grouped with for the sake of running instances.

 

I am actually still friends with quite a few people I played with back in Vanilla, in fact I am playing this game with several of them now. I don't have an issue talking to them and grouping.

 

There is more about LFG that I have issues with, but there things that may or may not come to be depending on how BW implements it if in fact they do, the other stuff I will just have to wait and see what happens.

[TonyIommi]

I am completely confused by this as well.

 

As far as I know Blizzard introduced LFG and LFR so people who typically would/could not experience that content would have the opportunity(people like me for instance who had never been on a 25-man raid prior to LFR).

 

I dont recall anyone giving me any free gear. I was just able to jump into a group, do content, and earn the gear...the same way I would earn it if I had been forced to spend hours putting a group together spamming a chat channel.

 

so whats the problem again?

 

 

oh wait - editing this because I just now remembered the problem - people are mad that unlike some of them during the time they had available to spend mindlessly spamming chat, I was just not able to be logged on and do the content - and now I can do the same content they were forced to spend 10x's the amount of time as me and are pissy about it.

 

awhhhhwwww poor babies. huggles. Man I didnt have to spam chat ONCE to find a group for any heroics I ever did in wow! awesome for me!

 

LFR and LFD were introduced for very different reasons. LFR was introduced as a band aid fix for a mistake blizzard made when they decided that people should only get one raid lock out 10 or 25 man per week. This decision lead to a siginificant decrease in pug raiding, it made it much harder to recruit and overall it lead to content being far less accessible than in the previous expansions. It was the WORST decision they made in cataclysm by far.

Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyIommi

[Philophobic]

I could agree to a LFD tool if it was limited to every flashpoint being played once/day. I don't want to see people skipping content and leveling by repeating the same flashpoint over and over again. And some may argue that it's not my business how others play the game, but if it makes me sick, it is my business and you should play the game as it was intended.

[Kaelshi]

LFR and LFD were introduced for very different reasons. LFR was introduced as a band aid fix for a mistake blizzard made when they decided that people should only get one raid lock out 10 or 25 man per week. This decision lead to a siginificant decrease in pug raiding, it made it much harder to recruit and overall it lead to content being far less accessible than in the previous expansions. It was the WORST decision they made in cataclysm by far.

 

 

So then the LFD was introduced to give free equipment away?

 

You must realize that this is all rhetorical. Everyone knows both tools were introduced to give more players access to more content.

 

This is just not in dispute no matter how hard you try.

 

If you don't like it thats fine - but you it is inarguable that they were made to give more people, better access.

[Kaelshi]

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away on the small world of Azeroth there was an amazing thing that happened, people made friends in the game. People would form groups, get to know others, run instances, talk, what have you. If you needed a group for something you could ask these people you had on your friends list, and if you weren't a terrible player, or a ninja, or any other form of undesirable, it was rather easy to make groups happen.

 

Then due to the incessant crying of the vocal minority Blizz implemented a cross server LFG system. From this moment forward, being an ***, a bad player, a ninja or anything else didn't matter at all. No one talked to each other any more, and it became a game of faceless nameless drones. People don't make friends with anyone, there's no interaction, no community what so ever, there is you, the people in your guild, assuming you even talk to them and aren't just there for the perks, and an endless sea of faceless drones to get grouped with for the sake of running instances.

 

I am actually still friends with quite a few people I played with back in Vanilla, in fact I am playing this game with several of them now. I don't have an issue talking to them and grouping.

 

There is more about LFG that I have issues with, but there things that may or may not come to be depending on how BW implements it if in fact they do, the other stuff I will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

oh yes- I remember this, we called it barrens chats. When rap e was a regular topic of conversation and some epic sword was spammed non-stop.

 

From this magical land of yours where everyone was friendly and belly button gum drops fell from the sky, we got this:

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Barrens_chat

 

an example from the chatlog of the barrens during this time

 

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 1] Anyone here like metalica?

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 2] Metallica sucks and ur a noob!

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 3] all metal bands suck, u guys are both ****.

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 2] %#$@ u, u just listen to rap crap and think ur so cool

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 4] Who likes starburst?

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 2] losers like starbust

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 4] I bet your mom is a loser

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 6] guys where is mankriks wife? I cant find her

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 5] Can you guys just shut up an play, plz? kthx?

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 7] LFG WC

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 1] **** player 5

[1. General - Barrens] [Player 2] shutup player

 

ah yes - I miss those days of a tight-knit community.

 

 

edit - mankirks wife still makes me laugh though.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kaelshi

[JeremyDale]

There is no legitimate reason.

 

So answering the title of this thread is impossible.

[Doomsaga]

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away on the small world of Azeroth there was an amazing thing that happened, people made friends in the game. People would form groups, get to know others, run instances, talk, what have you. If you needed a group for something you could ask these people you had on your friends list, and if you weren't a terrible player, or a ninja, or any other form of undesirable, it was rather easy to make groups happen.

 

Then due to the incessant crying of the vocal minority Blizz implemented a cross server LFG system. From this moment forward, being an ***, a bad player, a ninja or anything else didn't matter at all. No one talked to each other any more, and it became a game of faceless nameless drones. People don't make friends with anyone, there's no interaction, no community what so ever, there is you, the people in your guild, assuming you even talk to them and aren't just there for the perks, and an endless sea of faceless drones to get grouped with for the sake of running instances.

 

I am actually still friends with quite a few people I played with back in Vanilla, in fact I am playing this game with several of them now. I don't have an issue talking to them and grouping.

 

There is more about LFG that I have issues with, but there things that may or may not come to be depending on how BW implements it if in fact they do, the other stuff I will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

except for the fact that you failed to mention if you wrent heals, tanks, or the best current dps you werent gettin parties to make your so called friends. vanilla ret pally ring a bell? Believe me the minute they add dmg meters its gonna be the highest dps that gets parties while everyone else gets left in the dust. want an example ffxi they dont have lfd and if u were certain classes before abyssea u wasnt getting a party no matter how good you were

[Caelrie]

People want everything to be easy. First its finding groups, then it will be leveling, then level 50 content will be too hard. Just keep dumbing it down till we can just stare at the screen and drool on our keyboard to win. That what happened to wow and 10 million people love it.

 

There's nothing wrong with it being easy to find groups. You could make finding groups instant at the push of a button and it doesn't affect the game's difficulty one bit.

 

It's actually dropping subs at an alarming rate in the Western World. Cataclysm was a disaster for them, sub-wise.

 

/random knowledge.

 

No it isn't.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Caelrie

[Emeda]

I am completely confused by this as well.

 

As far as I know Blizzard introduced LFG and LFR so people who typically would/could not experience that content would have the opportunity(people like me for instance who had never been on a 25-man raid prior to LFR).

 

That was the original point of LFG. But if you can remember back then, after they did it they had to add the group buff because you were not happy that you could actually get a group because you couldnt complete it and get the tokens to get the gear.

 

I dont recall anyone giving me any free gear. I was just able to jump into a group, do content, and earn the gear...the same way I would earn it if I had been forced to spend hours putting a group together spamming a chat channel.

 

If you dont think a 15% buff to the group just so you can complete to heroics and LFR was not just handing out free gear your lying to yourself.

 

so whats the problem again?

 

Casuals are trying to use the excuse that they cant find a group without a LFR just so after they get it they can complain that now its too hard because everyone in the group (but them of coarse) are afk bots that are making it impossible to complete so will then want a nerf to the already easy flashpoints to make them even easier so thier lazy butts can do them to get the rewards to get gear.

 

oh wait - editing this because I just now remembered the problem - people are mad that unlike some of them during the time they had available to spend mindlessly spamming chat, I was just not able to be logged on and do the content - and now I can do the same content they were forced to spend 10x's the amount of time as me and are pissy about it.

Nope I already told you why, above

 

awhhhhwwww poor babies. huggles. Man I didnt have to spam chat ONCE to find a group for any heroics I ever did in wow! awesome for me!

 

Just to add. After they added LFG they also complained that it was now to long for them being casuals that they cant run them in 15 mins.

 

Also dont say that you just want a LFG and you dont want the difficulty decreased so you can do it quicker, because we all know thats a lie and once you get a LFG you will be complaining about it the first day. Then since its in the game already they wont take it out and you will somehow still cry that Bioware is catering to the hardcore again and ignoring the casuals because they dont have enough time to do the instance even though before when they wanted LFG they had the time but just couldnt waste the time to find the group.

 

Once Bioware opens the door and inch with putting in LFG its over. From there it will be nerf nerf nerf untill everything can be done in 10 mins.

[Faefrost]

What keeps getting lost in all of this is that those who supposedly don't want a LFG tool keep getting mischaracterized as such.

 

Those with issues with tool typically do want an automated LFG tool and matchmaking system. They just want it tied to the server that the player is on rather thana cross server system similar to WOW's. Most of them have experienced the pain that comes along with the convenience over in WOW and wonder if maybe it can be done without killing the local server comunities the way that WOW's did.

 

See I know some of you are concerned about low pop servers. BUT do those concerns mean that we need to kill of what thriving comunities there are?

 

An automated LFG tool if restricted to the local server has great benefits. It would allow players to queue up for content that they wish to experience, go do other activities while waiting, and overall give a seemless interface for experiencing the games instances etc. By keeping it just to the local server it also GROWS the community. The people that you are randomly paired with, you can remember them. Add them to your friends list. Play with them again. Those people that you random group with that all seem really nice, well look they are all from the same guild. Maybe you might want to join them? Maybe after meeting a few people this way you can put together a regularly scheduled night. Do operations, whatever. It is win win across the boards. There is no downside to such a mechanism.

 

Whereas look at the pro/con analysis of the cross server mechanism.

 

Pro's - Above and beyond the single server LFG, it allows for slightly faster queue times, for some lower population servers, and some roles. However experience with WOW seems to give the impression that this may simply be illusionary or at best only really be the case during extreme off peak play times. Otherwise there really is very little difference in queue times. But is it worth shaving 5 minutes off the queues for low pop servers is...

 

Con's - The mechanism of pure anonymity kills the social aspect of the game. You will never ever see or group with the people you are teamed with again. There is no history. There is no making long lasting friends (and those long lasting friends. THOSE are what drives long term paying game subscribers). There is no building of guilds from anonymous cross server groups. Further the anonymity leads to a rampant non cooperative antisocial style of gameplay, whereby large portions of the gaming population are only grouping for their own personal narcisitic needs and not the enjoyment of the social gaming aspects of the game. This leads to griefing, harassment, bad experiences and just all around @zzhattery.

 

So what exactly is the overall long term benefit of outright demanding that any LFG tool MUST be cross server? What is the logic behind this? What clear benefit is it to the game, the games operators and the games playing population at large?

 

And lets not forget. When WOW put such a system in, they did not start with a LFG tool. That system is simply a modified extension of the MASSIVE infrastructure change that they had put in place when they added PVP Battlegrounds several years prior. At that time it required an incredible amount of re-engineering and total system overhauls at the WOW datacenters. Just to permit the WOW servers to in some ways communicate with the other specific world servers that were located within the same physical datacenter infrastructure. (That's what the WOW Battlegroups are. They are clusters of servers that are all in the same room, at the various datacenters). It took years of engineering to get to that point. And a massive hardware overhaul just before TBC.

 

Now if SWTOR did not release with such features in place, and there has been no real public discussion about such features clearly on the development horizon, than there is much better than a good chance that the server and network infrastructure and the games overall engine was not initially built with such a system in mind. It's not something that they can simply turn on. It's not some simple game code that they can program. If it isn't there already than it is a HUGE infrastructure undertaking. Which would probably take about 18-24 months to design test and implement. (So I would not expect to see any such system until the first expansion released).

 

Whereas a local same server only LFG system is just local server code and can be simply programmed. It could probably be setup within a weeks or months time frame.

 

So remind me again? Which way is it that they absolutely positively MUST do it?

[evildestroyer]

This is the chat log when i pug a party without LFG tool.

 

Me spamming 100 times in chat "LFG for any HM FP"

Player 1 pms me" Ill go"

player 2 pms me "ill tank"

Player 3 pms me "ill heal"

 

Invite all 3,

I say "hi"

Player 1 says "hi"

player 2 says "hi"

Player 3 says "hi"

 

middle of the dungeon.

Player 3 says "CC left mob"

Player 1 says "ok"

 

repeats multiple times.

Then get to end of dungeon and kill boss

 

I say" Bye"

Player 1 says "bye"

player 2 says "bye"

Player 3 says "bye"

 

Some community isnt it? This happens every time.

[JeremyDale]

This is the chat log when i pug a party without LFG tool.

 

Me spamming 100 times in chat "LFG for any HM FP"

Player 1 pms me" Ill go"

player 2 pms me "ill tank"

Player 3 pms me "ill heal"

 

Invite all 3,

I say "hi"

Player 1 says "hi"

player 2 says "hi"

Player 3 says "hi"

 

middle of the dungeon.

Player 3 says "CC left mob"

Player 1 says "ok"

 

repeats multiple times.

Then get to end of dungeon and kill boss

 

I say" Bye"

Player 1 says "bye"

player 2 says "bye"

Player 3 says "bye"

 

Some community isnt it? This happens every time.

 

Right..and pug groups you form through geneal chat are so much different aren't they?

 

NO. Actually they aren't.

 

You can still group with your friends and guild evildestoryer. That is where 90% of the socializing on MMORPGs is done anyways and where this so called "community" exists, so stop this false and ridiculous debate that a cross-server LFG tool is going to bring down the level of intimate conversation between players. It's not.

 

All it's going to do is let players create groups when their friends are offline or their guild doesn't have anything planned, and that's a GOOD thing, especially considering how little there is to do after 50 on this game without a group.

[harpuax]

I get the feeling only bads are in favor of an cross-server LFD system. They can't get into groups on their servers any longer due to being bad and now they need the LFD-system to continue being bad and allowed to play with others without any consequence.

 

You may be right. It is obvious they are already so bad at finding groups they need someone to do it for them.

[LogicalPremise]

I know there are several threads on this, but I'd like to debunk some of the myths there are out there. Hopefully others will join and hopefully I might also actually see a legitimate reason to why BW shouldn't implement a LFD tool.

 

There are only two logical (i.e., not opinion or social based) arguments that can be made against a cross-server tool of ANY kind, be it LFD, LFPVP, LFWaldo, whatever.

 

 

The first is that it magnifies the number of players available at any one time to take part in any one activity. As a result, emphasis on the players on any given server is decreased. People who wish to form "communities" now must work much harder to do so, and do so outside the bounds of grouping.

 

However, given that there has been very little activity along this line in SWTOR anyway, it's hardly valid here.

 

The second is that any form of cross-server tool , by it's very nature, reduces the likelyhood that people will simply accept whoever comes along. If you are looking for a well-geared Powertech, and are restricted to single server, and a half-tank spec Jugg shows up, that's probably the best you can do.

 

With cross server, that will not be the case, and "ill-liked" classes will rapidly become punted to the curb in favor of perceived "OP" or "FOTM" classes.

 

There is a flip side to this of course, in that it identifies which classes are seen as net liabilities to bring along.

 

In the context of SWTOR, the main resistance to cross-server tools is personal opinion, much of which is based either on the concepts of recent failures (WoW's excreable execution of this tool, which literally must be experienced to be believed) , or on a preconcieved notion of what "kind" of people use Cross server, as if everyone who isn't form your own server is some kind of ******, ninja-looting, l33t-speaking strawhead with the mental sharpness of a bowling ball but less utility.

 

I do not think this is the case, and while there are certain INSTANCES and SITUATIONS where a logical argument can be made against such tools, this isn't one of the situations one can do so in without being biased.

[Doomsaga]

What keeps getting lost in all of this is that those who supposedly don't want a LFG tool keep getting mischaracterized as such.

 

Those with issues with tool typically do want an automated LFG tool and matchmaking system. They just want it tied to the server that the player is on rather thana cross server system similar to WOW's. Most of them have experienced the pain that comes along with the convenience over in WOW and wonder if maybe it can be done without killing the local server comunities the way that WOW's did.

 

See I know some of you are concerned about low pop servers. BUT do those concerns mean that we need to kill of what thriving comunities there are?

 

An automated LFG tool if restricted to the local server has great benefits. It would allow players to queue up for content that they wish to experience, go do other activities while waiting, and overall give a seemless interface for experiencing the games instances etc. By keeping it just to the local server it also GROWS the community. The people that you are randomly paired with, you can remember them. Add them to your friends list. Play with them again. Those people that you random group with that all seem really nice, well look they are all from the same guild. Maybe you might want to join them? Maybe after meeting a few people this way you can put together a regularly scheduled night. Do operations, whatever. It is win win across the boards. There is no downside to such a mechanism.

 

Whereas look at the pro/con analysis of the cross server mechanism.

 

Pro's - Above and beyond the single server LFG, it allows for slightly faster queue times, for some lower population servers, and some roles. However experience with WOW seems to give the impression that this may simply be illusionary or at best only really be the case during extreme off peak play times. Otherwise there really is very little difference in queue times. But is it worth shaving 5 minutes off the queues for low pop servers is...

 

Con's - The mechanism of pure anonymity kills the social aspect of the game. You will never ever see or group with the people you are teamed with again. There is no history. There is no making long lasting friends (and those long lasting friends. THOSE are what drives long term paying game subscribers). There is no building of guilds from anonymous cross server groups. Further the anonymity leads to a rampant non cooperative antisocial style of gameplay, whereby large portions of the gaming population are only grouping for their own personal narcisitic needs and not the enjoyment of the social gaming aspects of the game. This leads to griefing, harassment, bad experiences and just all around @zzhattery.

 

So what exactly is the overall long term benefit of outright demanding that any LFG tool MUST be cross server? What is the logic behind this? What clear benefit is it to the game, the games operators and the games playing population at large?

 

And lets not forget. When WOW put such a system in, they did not start with a LFG tool. That system is simply a modified extension of the MASSIVE infrastructure change that they had put in place when they added PVP Battlegrounds several years prior. At that time it required an incredible amount of re-engineering and total system overhauls at the WOW datacenters. Just to permit the WOW servers to in some ways communicate with the other specific world servers that were located within the same physical datacenter infrastructure. (That's what the WOW Battlegroups are. They are clusters of servers that are all in the same room, at the various datacenters). It took years of engineering to get to that point. And a massive hardware overhaul just before TBC.

 

Now if SWTOR did not release with such features in place, and there has been no real public discussion about such features clearly on the development horizon, than there is much better than a good chance that the server and network infrastructure and the games overall engine was not initially built with such a system in mind. It's not something that they can simply turn on. It's not some simple game code that they can program. If it isn't there already than it is a HUGE infrastructure undertaking. Which would probably take about 18-24 months to design test and implement. (So I would not expect to see any such system until the first expansion released).

 

Whereas a local same server only LFG system is just local server code and can be simply programmed. It could probably be setup within a weeks or months time frame.

 

So remind me again? Which way is it that they absolutely positively MUST do it?

 

nah they just dont want it. we who are pro LFD tool are willing to compromise but those who are against it arent. example we want lfd tool they counter "it ruins community"(like this community is awsome lol). we say "ok well than how about we ad dit but keep it same server, same Difficulty" they say "no bcz if they add it eventually they will add cross server, and make flashpoints easier". so yea unwilling to compromise so why should the pro LFD compromise.

[Kaelshi]

Just to add. After they added LFG they also complained that it was now to long for them being casuals that they cant run them in 15 mins.

 

Also dont say that you just want a LFG and you dont want the difficulty decreased so you can do it quicker, because we all know thats a lie and once you get a LFG you will be complaining about it the first day. Then since its in the game already they wont take it out and you will somehow still cry that Bioware is catering to the hardcore again and ignoring the casuals because they dont have enough time to do the instance even though before when they wanted LFG they had the time but just couldnt waste the time to find the group.

 

Once Bioware opens the door and inch with putting in LFG its over. From there it will be nerf nerf nerf untill everything can be done in 10 mins.

 

Oh lol - you're referring to the broken LoD buff that did not even apply in Cataclsym dungeons for the first 5 or so months that they increased when they fixed it.

 

So I guess you have less disdain for the people who got their gear using LFG during the first few months of cataclsym release than after? since only those after got the benefit of the buff.

 

You can make assumptions about casual players all you want.

 

I hate to generalize and make assumptions but I can only guess you are a teen or in your early-mid 20's with little to know real life responsibilities.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with that - it does not reflect poorly on you in anyway.

 

I can only educate you on the simple fact that there are millions of casual players, the ones you are showing disdain for, who do not have time to spam channels finding groups or dedicate time to spending them in server-side groups.

 

I can promise you - if I joined your server-side group, and 20 minutes into the Raid or Heroic I told you I had to leave because the baby woke up - you would not smile happily and say no problem buddy these things happen - knowing you were going to have to spend another hour trying to find another healer.

 

You would call me a jerk and probably tell people you know not to group with me.

 

LFD removes the liability I pose to groups. If I leave an LFD group in WoW, it takes them 2 seconds to find another healer.

 

When you are older and life hurls some more responsibilities your way - you may get it.

[Zenehre]

What keeps getting lost in all of this is that those who supposedly don't want a LFG tool keep getting mischaracterized as such.

 

Those with issues with tool typically do want an automated LFG tool and matchmaking system. They just want it tied to the server that the player is on rather thana cross server system similar to WOW's. Most of them have experienced the pain that comes along with the convenience over in WOW and wonder if maybe it can be done without killing the local server comunities the way that WOW's did.

 

See I know some of you are concerned about low pop servers. BUT do those concerns mean that we need to kill of what thriving comunities there are?

 

An automated LFG tool if restricted to the local server has great benefits. It would allow players to queue up for content that they wish to experience, go do other activities while waiting, and overall give a seemless interface for experiencing the games instances etc. By keeping it just to the local server it also GROWS the community. The people that you are randomly paired with, you can remember them. Add them to your friends list. Play with them again. Those people that you random group with that all seem really nice, well look they are all from the same guild. Maybe you might want to join them? Maybe after meeting a few people this way you can put together a regularly scheduled night. Do operations, whatever. It is win win across the boards. There is no downside to such a mechanism.

 

Whereas look at the pro/con analysis of the cross server mechanism.

 

Pro's - Above and beyond the single server LFG, it allows for slightly faster queue times, for some lower population servers, and some roles. However experience with WOW seems to give the impression that this may simply be illusionary or at best only really be the case during extreme off peak play times. Otherwise there really is very little difference in queue times. But is it worth shaving 5 minutes off the queues for low pop servers is...

 

Con's - The mechanism of pure anonymity kills the social aspect of the game. You will never ever see or group with the people you are teamed with again. There is no history. There is no making long lasting friends (and those long lasting friends. THOSE are what drives long term paying game subscribers). There is no building of guilds from anonymous cross server groups. Further the anonymity leads to a rampant non cooperative antisocial style of gameplay, whereby large portions of the gaming population are only grouping for their own personal narcisitic needs and not the enjoyment of the social gaming aspects of the game. This leads to griefing, harassment, bad experiences and just all around @zzhattery.

 

So what exactly is the overall long term benefit of outright demanding that any LFG tool MUST be cross server? What is the logic behind this? What clear benefit is it to the game, the games operators and the games playing population at large?

 

And lets not forget. When WOW put such a system in, they did not start with a LFG tool. That system is simply a modified extension of the MASSIVE infrastructure change that they had put in place when they added PVP Battlegrounds several years prior. At that time it required an incredible amount of re-engineering and total system overhauls at the WOW datacenters. Just to permit the WOW servers to in some ways communicate with the other specific world servers that were located within the same physical datacenter infrastructure. (That's what the WOW Battlegroups are. They are clusters of servers that are all in the same room, at the various datacenters). It took years of engineering to get to that point. And a massive hardware overhaul just before TBC.

 

Now if SWTOR did not release with such features in place, and there has been no real public discussion about such features clearly on the development horizon, than there is much better than a good chance that the server and network infrastructure and the games overall engine was not initially built with such a system in mind. It's not something that they can simply turn on. It's not some simple game code that they can program. If it isn't there already than it is a HUGE infrastructure undertaking. Which would probably take about 18-24 months to design test and implement. (So I would not expect to see any such system until the first expansion released).

 

Whereas a local same server only LFG system is just local server code and can be simply programmed. It could probably be setup within a weeks or months time frame.

 

So remind me again? Which way is it that they absolutely positively MUST do it?

 

This, this, a million times this.

 

Why isn't a server-wide LFG system good enough? Even excluding the infrastructure cost of linking the servers, even ignoring that, are the cons of such a system really worth the pro of 1-3 minute faster queues? Because that's the only difference on all but the lowest of population servers.

[Sttm]

You may be right. It is obvious they are already so bad at finding groups they need someone to do it for them.

 

Its going to be real easy to keep track of who the bads are when they dont put in LFG. All you have to do is keep track of the whole server population of 50.