Gavin_Darkl Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 cross server is a solution. cross server with an option to search just your own is a solution. Apparently putting forward solutions doesn't end the debate, turns out all we can do is argue for our own and wait and see which bioware goes with. Bioware already stated that there LFD tool will not be cross server. So not its not a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodimaster Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 cross server is a solution. cross server with an option to search just your own is a solution. Apparently putting forward solutions doesn't end the debate, turns out all we can do is argue for our own and wait and see which bioware goes with. More than likely BW will side with the Pro-LFg crowd cause in the end its about Dollars and Cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yeah, I have a feeling that is the entire purpose of this thread at this point. Argue just for the sake of arguing. I'm sorry did you enter here thinking bioware would stop everything eventually and announce a winner? I suppose in one way they will when we see the final adaption of there current lfg system that's in the works remembering that wow and rifts own started out one server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Bioware already stated that there LFD tool will not be cross server. So not its not a solution. Not true. Now they've said it's something they "are absolutely interested in and looking into." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 More than likely BW will side with the Pro-LFg crowd cause in the end its about Dollars and Cents! I agree in that BW will absolutely do what brings in the most money. And hate WoW or not, everyone want's their subscription numbers. I am even going to go out on a limb and say that "Casuals" outnumber "Hardcore" 100 to 1. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Bioware already stated that there LFD tool will not be cross server. So not its not a solution. No they've now stated it's ont he table being discussed. Not quite the same. Do you remember pve to pvp transfers in wow? UN-thinkable at first cross realm lfg? UN-thinkable at first raid lfg? UN-thinkable at first there current attempts to merge servers as much as possible via friends and inviteing people from other servers? UN-thinkable at first It's naive to think this genre or any are set in stone. Especially when there words have never been harsher then "We're not currently planning this" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm sorry did you enter here thinking bioware would stop everything eventually and announce a winner? I suppose in one way they will when we see the final adaption of there current lfg system that's in the works remembering that wow and rifts own started out one server. First thing you'v said that I agree with completely... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Figured I'd bump this in again as it was completely ignored. I didn't like the cross-server thing, but the rest was a very good suggestion to such a system. Missed your edit. Well it makes cross server an option. I guess the people it would hurt the most is the "random group but single server" crowd. Since they would have the smallest list to group from. But if you cHoose to make the group yourself corss server you can pick and choose and eliminate some of the @sshatery people worry about. It could actually HELP community within the game , not just server. First add an option to flag people either like or dislike (maybe even a scale 1-5 or something). Over time you would be able to see the people you have had good experiences with and group with them more and the bads get filtered out. Now to make it more social you can have a chat channel, cross server, to talk with those you set to like only. Kind of like the facebook wall. So it like your own little guild you can socialize with in addition to other options. Of course you could hide this chat if you wanted as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No they've now stated it's ont he table being discussed. Not quite the same. Do you remember pve to pvp transfers in wow? UN-thinkable at first cross realm lfg? UN-thinkable at first raid lfg? UN-thinkable at first there current attempts to merge servers as much as possible via friends and inviteing people from other servers? UN-thinkable at first It's naive to think this genre or any are set in stone. Especially when there words have never been harsher then "We're not currently planning this" That highlighted part would make me much less opposed to cross-server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Ferroz the humanitarian!!! LMAO!!! Anyone buying this..? It'd hope so, since it's true. I could dig up posts from the rift forums where I'm saying pretty much the same thing (if they haven't been deleted, I don't know their purge policy and it's coming up on a year I think for some of them) EDIT, Just for *** and giggles: I want cross server tools.I like helping bad players He's admitted that he wouldn't support a tool even if it got him groups quickly, if it wasn't cross-server and random. Actually I didn't say that I wouldn't support it, just that I'd prefer random and cross server. Anyone care to guess why..?For the reasons that I spelled out? I mean, if your guess isn't that, you've guessed wrong. As to your edit... How many times do I have to tell you that I have already laid out the defense to those points and you've failed to read them..? You'll have to keep saying that until you actually do it... Do you have any actual, valid, supporting evidence to that claim? Other than the stuff I've debunked? Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Still waiting on that tool you mentioned. You going to enlighten us any time soon? And no saying you've laid it out is not laying it out, and we've answered every one of your shallow vague arguments. LMAO! No you haven't... And you've been the worst at it. All you've ever done is just flat out say that my argument was wrong without any cogent retort, and that's the few times when you're not completely misrepresenting my position entirely. You once claimed I said something and actually quoted me saying the exact opposite in the same post... lol Claiming that I haven't laid out the arguments is just a lame excuse to avoid your inability to refute them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Bioware already stated that there LFD tool will not be cross server. So not its not a solution. I'm genuinely curious about this mentality: do you honestly think that BW won't make their LFD tool cross server sooner rather than later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It'd hope so, since it's true. I could dig up posts from the rift forums where I'm saying pretty much the same thing (if they haven't been deleted) So glad I missed that, arguing these points in wow rift and now swtor would have killed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So glad I missed that, arguing these points in wow rift and now swtor would have killed me. I'm surprised they didn't consider all of this before the game launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It'd hope so, since it's true. I could dig up posts from the rift forums where I'm saying pretty much the same thing (if they haven't been deleted, I don't know their purge policy and it's coming up on a year I think for some of them) Actually I didn't say that I wouldn't support it, just that I'd prefer random and cross server. For the reasons that I spelled out? I mean, if your guess isn't that, you've guessed wrong. You'll have to keep saying that until you actually do it... Do you have any actual, valid, supporting evidence to that claim? Other than the stuff I've debunked? You never debunked anything. And flagging my post to you was pretty lame man. I would never do that to you. But you go ahead and have your fun. I'm out for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 LMAO! No you haven't... And you've been the worst at it. All you've ever done is just flat out say that my argument was wrong without any cogent retort, and that's the few times when you're not completely misrepresenting my position entirely. You once claimed I said something and actually quoted me saying the exact opposite in the same post... lol Claiming that I haven't laid out the arguments is just a lame excuse to avoid your inability to refute them. whatever friend. My post history is there I'm not hiding it and neither are you whether you want to or not and I'm just not see'ing it with anything you've said in this thread. That tool, you going to enlighten us with your magical alternative? Cause I have faith you wouldn't just have used it as a shallow pretext to trap someone into admitting something that when viewed a very specific way could be seen to support your view as far as I can determine your view at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) More than likely BW will side with the Pro-LFg crowd cause in the end its about Dollars and Cents!You are assuming the Pro-LFG crowd is the majority. So far it's the same 10 or 15 people beating each other up in forum posts. Even if 200,000 wanted it, there's still the other 1.5 million who could either care less or don't want it. Not quite the cost-effective numbers BW needs to make it a priority. Edited February 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm sorry did you enter here thinking bioware would stop everything eventually and announce a winner? I suppose in one way they will when we see the final adaption of there current lfg system that's in the works remembering that wow and rifts own started out one server. No, I was hoping that this would be a discussion regarding the negative and positive effects of a WoW-like LFD tool, and maybe even come up with solutions. All I see here is people bickering over nothing without being able to see the other side's points. I have shared my views several times in this thread, and I have acknowledged, respected and I even like the up sides of the LFD system, but due to my 7 years of experience in WoW where I have seen how it changes a community, I can't see any indication of the negative side-effects not happening. I have explained why I don't acknowledge the "optional" statement from pro-LFDers. I have explained what I saw happening to the community in WoW. I have explained what mentality changes we will see if it's implemented. I have explained the loss to a sense of accomplishment if it's implemented. I have explained that the speed of which you find groups won't increase, if you know how to use the ENTIRE chat system effectively. I have explained what options I would like in a LFG system. I have shown great admiration for the WoW patch 3.10 LFG system (the one before LFD) and the system Aion is currently using. The responses I have gotten is basically: You're wrong You're wrong You're wrong You're wrong Without any evidence, speculations, suggestions, approximations, previous experience in such systems or otherwise to refute my views and experience. If you manage to convince me that there is no chance in hell that the negative side-effects that occurred in WoW will happen here, I will tip my hat to you and I will join your side for a WoW LFD tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I agree in that BW will absolutely do what brings in the most money. And hate WoW or not, everyone want's their subscription numbers. I am even going to go out on a limb and say that "Casuals" outnumber "Hardcore" 100 to 1. Just my opinion. Is it even about casual vrs hardcore? I personally think Im a social player, and believe it's more a case of being to nasty/mean to join a guild, or to just plain use a LFD tool to do as they please, abusing others along the way. Not one guildie i spoke to in WoW and Rift liked the idea, cus half the time you got some rude, unguilded person who was RPing a Mute. Of course being on a RP server likes it even harder, you end up with *normal PvEers that act like eejits most of the time. *The term was used VERY loosely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You never debunked anything. Yes, I did. I pointed out that you were using flawed logic, 2 post hoc arguments. I spelled the logic flaw out in detail and showed that your supposed support did not, in any way, support your claim You haven't supplied a single bit of factual evidence to support that claim. I mean, I totally understand why... your position is totally false, so you actually CAN'T support it... and since it's not possible to support it, you do all of this tap dancing, where you pretend like you've supported it. And flagging my post to you was pretty lame man. I would never do that to you. But you go ahead and have your fun. I'm out for now.I'm pretty sure I didn't flag any of your posts... maybe someone else did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Assuming the Pro-LFG crows is the majority. So far it's the same 10 or 15 people beating each other up. Not quite the cost-effective numbers BW needs to make it a priority. With only 11k views on this thread it was already a forgone conclusion that minority's would be arguing with minority's. But when even the other side for the most part readily admits that if the tool were introduced people would flock to it I think the point leans towards it's introduction. If judging from here. Given biowares flip flop from "not planning it" to "discussing it" tells me they have stats that have made them change there minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You are assuming the Pro-LFG crowd is the majority. Pretty safe assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No, I was hoping that this would be a discussion regarding the negative and positive effects of a WoW-like LFD tool, and maybe even come up with solutions. All I see here is people bickering over nothing without being able to see the other side's points. I have shared my views several times in this thread, and I have acknowledged, respected and I even like the up sides of the LFD system, but due to my 7 years of experience in WoW where I have seen how it changes a community, I can't see any indication of the negative side-effects not happening. I have explained why I don't acknowledge the "optional" statement from pro-LFDers. I have explained what I saw happening to the community in WoW. I have explained what mentality changes we will see if it's implemented. I have explained the loss to a sense of accomplishment if it's implemented. I have explained that the speed of which you find groups won't increase, if you know how to use the ENTIRE chat system effectively. I have explained what options I would like in a LFG system. I have shown great admiration for the WoW patch 3.10 LFG system (the one before LFD) and the system Aion is currently using. The responses I have gotten is basically: You're wrong You're wrong You're wrong You're wrong Without any evidence, speculations, suggestions, approximations, previous experience in such systems or otherwise to refute my views and experience. If you manage to convince me that there is no chance in hell that the negative side-effects that occurred in WoW will happen here, I will tip my hat to you and I will join your side for a WoW LFD tool. No what you've given is "Here's why I think I'm right" And what we've given is "Here's why we think you're wrong" At least from me. And I know there will be negatives but I believe as I experienced in wow and rift the positives outweigh them. And to paraphrase you, convince me and I'll agree with you. Until then we will argue. That's the way debates work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalignX Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You are assuming the Pro-LFG crowd is the majority. So far it's the same 10 or 15 people beating each other up in forum posts. Even if 200,000 wanted it, there's still the other 1.5 million who could either care less or don't want it. Not quite the cost-effective numbers BW needs to make it a priority. Everyone can make up numbers. I just found 2 million people that want it. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) With only 11k views on this thread it was already a forgone conclusion that minority's would be arguing with minority's. But when even the other side for the most part readily admits that if the tool were introduced people would flock to it I think the point leans towards it's introduction. If judging from here. Given biowares flip flop from "not planning it" to "discussing it" tells me they have stats that have made them change there minds.They'll always say "not planning it" at launch to prevent their focus from being diverted to areas of less need. Now that things are settling down a bit, they're softening their stance. At this point, everything other than bug fixing, character xfers, UI customization and new content additions is announced as "we're discussing it." That's like the people who were furious at launch that the game didn't have everything other games had because they hitched their wagons to a single line in a 2½ year old press release. "At the same time, we will still deliver all the fun features and activities that fans have come to expect in a AAA massively multiplayer online game." Edited February 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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