Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[darkcerb]

Just did. The only to stop them from nerfing content is to stop them from adding a automatic LFG system otherwise it will lead to nerfed content. Now all the casuals will deny this and say they dont want nerfed content but just want to get a group to do it but its just the stategy they use. They know that once they get a LFG it will not be taken away so they will act like they want to play the game when they dont. If Bioware just did a super nerf to the content without putting in a LFG you would see all the requests for a LFG and that it must be put in the game gone, just because they actually got what they wanted. They just want to hide what they want so they use the LFG as something they must have then use the LFG the one thing they must have as the reason that they must have nerfs.

 

You're almost re-posting your anti-casual (casual here being derogetory) tirade, there was more swearing though. It's nice to get back to your real concern with any tool to successful though.

 

I'm willing to bet you haven't touched the nightmare content though, probably never will clear it either. The irony is staggering.

[Andryah]

There were no assumptions in my argument. I laid it out pretty cleanly. So let's revisit it.

 

I think you should be able to agree that the player types that I described do, in fact, exist in the game... i.e. people who don't understand how to play their class, griefer/douche players. Any normal PUG put together by a person is far less likely to include these people. A group leader would take one look at a Trooper wearing STR gear and tell him that he needs to wear class-appropriate gear. A guy that wants to act like a jerk all of the time is going to get dropped, and eventually blacklisted by fellow players in general. A leader can take a look at your gear and decide if you've got it up to par for the content, or decide if he wants to take you and carry you to a degree. A random instant-LFD queue system takes all of those decisions out of the players hands, and leaves those groups to be far inferior to even just the standard basic PUG.

 

Blizzard didn't just "eventually" nerf stuff. The line was pretty clear there. When Cata came out, Blizzard made a big show about how heroic instances were going to actually BE heroic, and that they were reintroducing the need for such concepts as crowd control and focus fire. When the LFD crowd hit cap and found out they couldn't faceroll everything like they did in Wrath, the crying on the forums was EPIC. Blizzard nerfed the hell out of them shortly after, all while doing the standard corporate double-talk that they did it for other reasons (which they never elaborated on). If you bought their line, I don't know what to tell you, since you seem to ask for proof for every statement except the ones you want to make, or like to hear.

 

/qft....

[ferroz]

They are lazy.

They had to use an auto group feature instead of actually communicating and this will also show in the flshpoint where no one communicates.

The LFG had the same effect in WoW

The majority of people in dungeons in wow were quited well before lfd.

 

Before, people spammed in dalaran, got invited to the heroic. They pressed 1 for a summon. They did the dungeon with minimal chatter unless (and often even if)_ someone went out of their way to try and chat. They finished the dungeon and typed GG or grats if someone got an achievement.

 

After, people queued up and ported in. They did the dungeon with minimal chatter unless (and often even if)_ someone went out of their way to try and chat. They finished the dungeon and typed GG or grats if someone got an achievement.

 

They will nerf content, its just a matter of time.

Maybe they will. That doesn't mean that those nerfs will have anything to do with a lffp tool.

 

the rest (that I removed) is just baseless speculation and flamebait.

 

The only to stop them from nerfing content is to stop them from adding a automatic LFG system otherwise it will lead to nerfed content.

The only to stop them eh?

 

Whether they add an automatic grouping lfg system has nothing to do with whether they nerf the content.

 

Just did.

No, you used baseless speculation and flaming. That's not the same thing as facts and evidence... just FYI Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[darkcerb]

/qft....

 

That your sig and the fact that I can be fairly certain you wont ever clear the nightmare content I.e the content made specifically for it's difficulty, make for a hilarious post.

[shdwfx]

Actually convenient and easy is what the genre is about NOW. If you dont like it maybe main stream mmo's are not YOUR cup of tea!

 

WoW ruined? lets see yes they lost some subs.. down to 10.2 million.. Thats what.. about 9 million more players than swtor has?.. WoW still holds the record for most successful mmo on the market. thats a fact recorded in the Guinness book! In one month sales for cata was 4.7 million for a expansion to game that was already old! lets see thats 2 million more sales than swtor had for a new release....

You know if i was running a game company i would love for my game to be as ruined as world of warcraft is!

 

 

Sad but true. Preach on.

[MalignX]

At this point, I can't wait for a automated LFG tool. I couldn't care less what category of player this supposedly puts me in. I can only hope by their current track record that X-Server will be close behind if not implemented with its initial release. Do I care if it effects your game play? Nope. Do I care if you quit? Not at all. I'm not longer interested in any sort of compromise, and if you think we were ever going to reach one here, I find that funny. Will I continue to post something along these lines every time someone rants about it "Killing Community" or "Nerfkilling the Game" or whatever else is posted? Yup. All the anti-lfgers arguments boil down into one long "I hate casuals, games should be hard, people should know my/your name in the game, no game should ever evolve, this game will become so easy anyone can play it, I can't call someone a ninja and anyone else will care, wah wah wah." Sorry, my small reserve of willingness to find a happy medium is dry.

 

Gimme X-Server LFG and I'll stand at the rails of this "sinking ship" and watch all the rats jump overboard.

[Taroen]

Sad but true. Preach on.

 

Not really. Just because there are a lot of idiots that love to eat at McDonalds, doesn't mean that every food joint should turn into that.

 

The instant-gratification kiddies ruin good games. Why not just be done with it and wait for the test server to start giving you free 50s and free gear..? Then you wouldn't even need to play the game at all!!!

 

MMO's are supposed to be about character development. Why even play if your toon gets everything handed to him for free..?

[ferroz]

Not really. Just because there are a lot of idiots that love to eat at McDonalds, doesn't mean that every food joint should turn into that.

The fact that you don't like mcdonalds is not a valid reason to prevent one from being opened.

[Taroen]

The fact that you don't like mcdonalds is not a valid reason to prevent one from being opened.

 

The fact that you DO like McDonalds is not a valid reason to turn every joint into one.

 

No one is keeping you from playing instant-gratification games to get your endorfin rush. WoW is still open for business. You're not playing it, but you want to turn this game into it? If it's so awesome, then why are you here, instead of there?

[darkcerb]

The fact that you DO like McDonalds is not a valid reason to turn every joint into one.

 

So predictable.

 

But it is reason enough for the option to be available.

 

Which address's the second part of your post to.

 

I love the "play something else! don't bring your optional stuff here!" argument very logical.

Edited February 15, 2012 by darkcerb

[ferroz]

The fact that you DO like McDonalds is not a valid reason to turn every joint into one.

Noone's asking for that; they're just asking for it to be an option.

 

Some people would like a mcdonald's (a cross server lffp tool that autogroups) built somewhere in town (SWTOR). The people who want fast, cheap and convenient can use it.

 

The people who don't want that can continue to go to their current fine dining (keep grouping like they are now).

 

WoW is still open for business. You're not playing it,

Am I not? Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[DarthKhaos]

The fact that you don't like mcdonalds is not a valid reason to prevent one from being opened.

SW:TOR is Burger King.

[PjPablo]

MMO's are supposed to be about character development. Why even play if your toon gets everything handed to him for free..?

 

You mean like in a MMO where you can get max level, BIS gear, clear all raid content in under 30 days. Yeah, forget that handing everything to pla.... wait a second.....

[harpuax]

The fact that you don't like mcdonalds is not a valid reason to prevent one from being opened.

 

No where in that sentence did the poster say he/she did no like mcdonalds or that new ones were being opened.

 

Bioware can do 2 things to be successful. A) They can follow the most successful MMO and try to be just like them. B) Or they can be their own game and succeed on their own ideas and innovation. Now many have tried option A with no luck, why? Because wow already exists, few if any will choose a new game over one that already exists if they are the same. Now SWTOR may already be a bit like WOW, but are those similarities inherent to just WOW or MMOs in general (classes, leveling, instances etc)?. Now option B allows them to break away from the competition in a different direction, it may be riskier, but the rewards are greater if successful. People will come to SWTOR, not because it as good as WOW, but because it does things differently and hopefully better.

[ferroz]

SW:TOR is Burger King.

No, it's much more like a mall food court.

 

There's room for McDonalds, and Burger King, and Wok'n'Roll and Nature's Table, and Barney's Coffee, and Cinnabon, and there's even room for the P.F. Chang's, and Bill's Steakhouse over there.

 

Insisting that everyone has to eat in your restaurant is just silly.

[ferroz]

No where in that sentence did the poster say he/she did no like mcdonalds or that new ones were being opened.

That's the anti-lfg argument in a nutshell.

[Moricthian]

We need some kind of way to determine whether or not the a majority of players want an automated LFG system. If so, BW should put one in, if not then they shouldn't. There's no point speculating either way.

[DarthKhaos]

We need some kind of way to determine whether or not the a majority of players want an automated LFG system. If so, BW should put one in, if not then they shouldn't. There's no point speculating either way.

I've said that earlier. Unless BioWare does a poll of the entire game population no one can know who's in the majority & minority.

Edited February 15, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[ferroz]

We need some kind of way to determine whether or not the a majority of players want an automated LFG system. If so, BW should put one in, if not then they shouldn't. There's no point speculating either way.

Edit: not that I think it's a minority, or that I have any information either way.

 

If there's a significant sized minority, I don't see why they shouldn't add the option for the people who prefer it.

 

You mean like in a MMO where you can get max level, BIS gear, clear all raid content in under 30 days. Yeah, forget that handing everything to pla.... wait a second.....

Yeah, that does make it a bit hard to take the "Don't make it ez mode like wow" argument seriously. Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Taroen]

Noone's asking for that; they're just asking for it to be an option.

 

Some people would like a mcdonald's (a cross server lffp tool that autogroups) built somewhere in town (SWTOR). The people who want fast, cheap and convenient can use it.

 

The people who don't want that can continue to go to their current fine dining (keep grouping like they are now).

 

Am I not?

 

You are not.

 

A cross-server random instant group finder changes the entire game into McDonalds. Not just for people who want it. For EVERYONE.

 

If you want to go to a steak house, you shouldn't be surprised that they don't serve Big Macs.

 

If you want McDonalds food... Go to McDonalds.

[ferroz]

Bioware can do 2 things to be successful. A) They can follow the most successful MMO and try to be just like them. B) Or they can be their own game and succeed on their own ideas and innovation.

False dilemma. They can also

C) use the some features of the most successful MMO and innovate on them while still being their own game.

[darkcerb]

You are not.

 

A cross-server random instant group finder changes the entire game into McDonalds. Not just for people who want it. For EVERYONE.

 

If you want to go to a steak house, you shouldn't be surprised that they don't serve Big Macs.

 

If you want McDonalds food... Go to McDonalds.

 

IF that happens it is only because the majority would prefer this tool.

 

I don't see how the counter-argument can hold this as fact and still refute that the majority wants a cross server tool.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

Still waiting on an answer to the option to only look within your server to, though I doubt I'll get one ignoring anything logically against your argument is what the anti-lfg seem best at.

[HavenAE]

The poster I was responding to claimed that EQ died when WoW was released and was using this to justify why the WoW model is the only viable one.

 

All I was stating was that EQ didn't die when WoW was released. Because it clearly didn't.

 

FFXI and EQ2 were never mentioned, which is why I also didn't comment on them.

 

OKay...

 

 

Well what I said still stands.. EQ didnt die because it was already well established long before WoW was launched and again what happened then has nothing to do with the current time frame. The market has changed drastically since 2004.

[DarthKhaos]

You mean like in a MMO where you can get max level, BIS gear, clear all raid content in under 30 days. Yeah, forget that handing everything to pla.... wait a second.....

Awesome. Since it's so easy no need to add a fully automated cross server lfg system.

 

/thread.

 

Everyone can go home now. I know I am the work day is over.

Edited February 15, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Taroen]

You mean like in a MMO where you can get max level, BIS gear, clear all raid content in under 30 days. Yeah, forget that handing everything to pla.... wait a second.....

 

Sure... You CAN...

 

But it still requires you to do it. It requires you to do a lot more than just pay your sub and log into the game. Most of the pro cross-server types think that their sub should come with an "IWIN" button.