Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Sttm]

This, this, a million times this.

 

Why isn't a server-wide LFG system good enough? Even excluding the infrastructure cost of linking the servers, even ignoring that, are the cons of such a system really worth the pro of 1-3 minute faster queues? Because that's the only difference on all but the lowest of population servers.

 

Because Bioware was retarded and didnt put in population controls and opened way too many servers and now has many that has so few republic on it that a server only lfg tool would only fail to group up the 5 whole players currently looking to run a flash point.

 

They dont have the numbers for server only unless they do mass mergers, and then its iffy if they could pull it off with how bad the faction imbalance is (keep merging till republic side has enough people, but then since Imp has 4 times that many, the server is too crowded).

Edited February 14, 2012 by Sttm

[Kaelshi]

I would LOVE to see chat logs from people who get PUGS server-side and compare them to chat logs from LFD groups.

 

I've been in absolutely silent pugs in both and extremely talkative pugs.

 

I've pugged with people server-side I never saw again and there are people I've pugged with multiple times in LFD from other servers.

 

The only thing I'd suggest is to let ppl friend people on other servers in some way(perhaps impossible)

 

This mythical community that is being broken has never existed. Your community with your guild/friends does not get effected in the slightest by LFG and if it does that is not LFG's fault its your guilds fault.

[evildestroyer]

Some people are saying with a XLFG tool you get stuck with bad players.

 

Rift has a perfect tool.

 

As long you meet the level and stat requirements you can queue.

 

If you pick to queue as a tank, you need to have proper tank stats before you can queue, if you queue as dps you need proper dps stats and queue as as a healer need proper stats/spec for that too.

 

And if you get stuck with a bad player just vote kick them and get a replacement or if someone bails use the tool to get a replacement.

 

If someone bails at a HM FP now, you will have to spend 20-30 minutes trying to find a replacement if you have no Guild mates or friends online.

[TonyIommi]

I would LOVE to see chat logs from people who get PUGS server-side and compare them to chat logs from LFD groups.

 

I've been in absolutely silent pugs in both and extremely talkative pugs.

 

I've pugged with people server-side I never saw again and there are people I've pugged with multiple times in LFD from other servers.

 

The only thing I'd suggest is to let ppl friend people on other servers in some way(perhaps impossible)

 

This mythical community that is being broken has never existed. Your community with your guild/friends does not get effected in the slightest by LFG and if it does that is not LFG's fault its your guilds fault.

 

 

That's not true at all. It wasn't in the past and it isn't now. Look I left warcraft at the end of TBC. Came back towards the end of WOTLK. The difference was night and day. I had an active friendlist through all of vanilla and tbc and had zero problems getting anything done. In wotlk and going forward it may as well not even have existed.

Edited February 14, 2012 by TonyIommi

[Emeda]

LFR and LFD were introduced for very different reasons. LFR was introduced as a band aid fix for a mistake blizzard made when they decided that people should only get one raid lock out 10 or 25 man per week. This decision lead to a siginificant decrease in pug raiding, it made it much harder to recruit and overall it lead to content being far less accessible than in the previous expansions. It was the WORST decision they made in cataclysm by far.

 

Wrong once again.

 

Another con game played by the casuals to get what they wanted. The casuals said it was unfair that 25 man guilds got better gear than 10 mans because the 10 mans couldnt get enough players to run 25 man (note they couldnt get a group to do the 25 mans).

 

Cata comes around and Blizzard adds in 10 man heroics so the casuals can have hardmode content also(lol) and they also make the gear the same for 10 mans and 25 mans so both sizes are on an even playing field. Now the good part. To protect the 25 man guilds from running both 10 and 25 man raids and getting 2x more gear than the 10 man only guilds (because they cant get enough players to do 25) blizzard made it so you could not do both sizes. This was done to protect the 10 man guilds that wanted to be equal. Now since they got what they wanted in equal gear they then started to complain that the difficulty was to hard on 10 man and that 25 mans had an unfair advantage again (because they min/max and brought in alts and subs and spent more time on the fights) and called for nerfs and nerfs until it was so easy mode. They also somehow were now able to get 25 people even though they are casual and wanted to run both 10 and 25 mans and complained that it was unfair that they couldnt do a guild and a pug run.

 

Now whats the pattern. Say you want to be equal to get what you want. Once you get what you want cry its still unfair somehow until you get easy mode of what you want while getting the same gear. Then complain that you run out of stuff to do and want to do more of the easy stuff to get the gear. So the casuals that didnt have enough time to play now have enough time to play because they can get gear with an easymode.

 

Its always the same thing with you guys. I would love to see some /played of you guys that have wifes and kids and 3 jobs. Wonder how many would actually be over 10 days played LOL. Casuals are just lazy people that just want the rewards from the game without playing it. Thats the casuals that call themselves casuals, not the true casuals.

[sevev]

3# We will see more 'thiefs' and people will be bad mannered.

 

Correct, however, we'll have the same issue regardless. There is NOTHING that is currenlty preventing people to already do that

 

not entirely true.... by maintaining flashpoint and operation runs to a single server there is a greater risk of harming ones reputation on their server if they are seen as a loot ninja...

 

having cross server LFD allows player to ninja-away with impunity.

 

Right now, WOW is the perfect example... Make a post on your battle group forums about a player that ninja looted some gear from a LFD run and that post will get ignored.

 

Ignored by the players (no punishment) ignore by Blizzard (no punishment), the actions are ignored.

[darkcerb]

That's not true at all. It wasn't in the past and it isn't now. Look I left warcraft at the end of TBC. Came back towards the end of WOTLK. The difference was night and day. I had an active friendlist through all of vanilla and tbc and had zero problems getting anything done. In wotlk and going forward it may as well not even have existed.

 

Your exp =/= others

 

The friends I had before didn't evaporate after the tool.

[Doomsaga]

This areguement is pointless subs ar egoing to keep goin down EA is gonna get pissed and force bioware and add LFD anyways just like they forced them to release the game like this

[TonyIommi]

Your exp =/= others

 

The friends I had before didn't evaporate after the tool.

 

I could easily just as well say the same for you. Why would you then wish to foist your experience over mine?

[darkcerb]

Its always the same thing with you guys. I would love to see some /played of you guys that have wifes and kids and 3 jobs. Wonder how many would actually be over 10 days played LOL. Casuals are just lazy people that just want the rewards from the game without playing it. Thats the casuals that call themselves casuals, not the true casuals.

 

I figured you'd show your true problem with the system soon enough.

 

Just terrified of your online status not being so unique, don't worry even in wow content is still set aside for you.

 

Some reason you don't do it? to easy I guess?

 

"casuals" even your derogatory term and definition of them aren't threatening you anyway.

 

Access to flashpoints hard or otherwise has nothing to do with OPS and even if it did it wouldn't effect hard mode and especially not nightmare.

[JeremyDale]

not entirely true.... by maintaining flashpoint and operation runs to a single server there is a greater risk of harming ones reputation on their server if they are seen as a loot ninja...

 

having cross server LFD allows player to ninja-away with impunity.

 

Right now, WOW is the perfect example... Make a post on your battle group forums about a player that ninja looted some gear from a LFD run and that post will get ignored.

 

Ignored by the players (no punishment) ignore by Blizzard (no punishment), the actions are ignored.

 

 

If you think groups formed across server lines are too risky then simply do not use it.

 

A lot of us don't mind the risks and prefer it to spamming the stupid chat channel for hours bored out of our minds. And just the fact you are paranoid about "ninjas" doesn't mean we shouldn't be given the option to form groups across servers if we so choose.

 

Besides, this whole "server reputation" thing is a farce anyways. I see posts on these forums everyday complaining about people rolling on items they shouldn't. It happens anyway. If you are that afraid of running across rude/selfish people probably best to just avoid MMORPGs all together...hell, you should probably avoid humanity period.

 

That's what happens when you deal with other real life people Sev, you have to take the good with the bad.

Edited February 14, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Charliff]

This areguement is pointless subs ar egoing to keep goin down EA is gonna get pissed and force bioware and add LFD anyways just like they forced them to release the game like this

 

Oh i don't havy any doubt they will add LFD since lobby gaming is the new hit. It won't be long that the planets are getting empty because people stay in the fleet trolling /general and waiting for an instant teleport to get their run for the day.

[Doomsaga]

not entirely true.... by maintaining flashpoint and operation runs to a single server there is a greater risk of harming ones reputation on their server if they are seen as a loot ninja...

 

having cross server LFD allows player to ninja-away with impunity.

 

Right now, WOW is the perfect example... Make a post on your battle group forums about a player that ninja looted some gear from a LFD run and that post will get ignored.

 

Ignored by the players (no punishment) ignore by Blizzard (no punishment), the actions are ignored.

 

want me to be completely honest. When I (as well as many others) hear someone call someone ninjas we dont even give it a second glance let alone remember the person who supposidly ninjaed. how can i take another random player word for it that someone ninjaed when i dont know the players or even the full story(even if they told me how would i know its true or not).

[darkcerb]

I could easily just as well say the same for you. Why would you then wish to foist your experience over mine?

 

I'm not and didn't in that post.

 

I'm not the one leveraging my experiences as the gospel truth of the lfg system.

[darkcerb]

Oh i don't havy any doubt they will add LFD since lobby gaming is the new hit. It won't be long that the planets are getting empty because people stay in the fleet trolling /general and waiting for an instant teleport to get their run for the day.

 

As opposed to now where they stay in the fleet spamming for groups...and going to the adjacent instances.

 

Your logic is so solid.

[Nedor]

I played wow since the start at release in europe.. and still play now not as much as I did.]

 

I dont understand this negitive reaction to the LFD it had no impact on the community prior to it launch people mainly ran with guild members 100% of the time for both raids and dungeons when they didnt they pugged which took 30 - 45 mintues to get a group most times.

 

People talked about the same pre and post LFD normally hi, then CC and bye at the end.

 

After the LFD was released people got to do more instances within a timescale, people got to fit stuff in there time online.. if you didnt have 3 - 4 hours during pre-lfd you might as well not bother in a group.. or getting a group.

 

The only thing blizzard did wrong post LFD was dungeon design and making it as quick as possible and tank and spank this had nothing to do with LFD just blizzard seeing that is what people wanted.

 

Personally at low level and max level the LFD is amazing and allows you to get groups.. people will be ******s if they want to be doesnt matter what tool they have.

[Thaed]

You have evidence of this? How do you know the person who was a jerk to you is not a jerk to everyone?(answer - you don't) LFG is not causing people to be jerks. It's allowing most people to join dungeons groups a HECK of a lot more often which is just putting them in contact with jerks.

 

Why would how someone acts on another server "break" the community of YOUR server?

 

People are just repeating this as if it makes sense and it does not.

 

You have no evidence that it wouldn't happen, so I suppose the point is moot.

 

Look at it this way. I get in a run with three people from my server. We agree that X won't roll on any gear upgrades if he can take a mount drop unnopposed if it drops. X passes on two upgrades during the run. The mount drops. Since there's a good chance that I'll run with these people again, I pass on the mount.

 

Same situation, cross-server. I'm more than likely never going to see those people again, nor is it likely that they'll call me out if I need on the mount, so I do. What's it matter anyway? I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, it's not like I care what three random people I'll never group with again think about me.

 

Different situation. Our group is fairly undergeared and doing a HM flashpoint. We wipe once. I'm more likely to drop out of a cross-server group than a same-server group for reasons stated above: what do I care what three people I'll never speak to again think about me?

 

If I constantly did these things on my server, I'd eventually build up enough of a bad reputation that no-one would want to group with me anymore. With cross-server grouping, who's going to know?

 

Now, personally, I wouldn't do this. I have, however, spoken to people who have this mindset. It is a problem that will more than likely arrive with cross-server grouping.

 

That said, I am not dramatically opposed to it. I'd much rather see a proper same-server LFG tool implimented first and see how that pans out, then add cross server grouping if it becomes necessary (perhaps even only on certain low pop servers).

[JeremyDale]

I think it's funny all of you people who think a selfish/rude person who has no quarms with just rolling on an item for no reason but to be an *** is going to care about his "reputation" anyways lol

 

Do you really think people like this are going to care what you or anyone else on their server thinks of them?

Edited February 14, 2012 by JeremyDale

[Thaed]

As opposed to now where they stay in the fleet spamming for groups...and going to the adjacent instances.

 

Your logic is so solid.

 

I haven't once sat in LFG spamming for groups. In fact, I don't think I've ever made a single post looking for a group on my sniper. I just see a group asking for dps and join them with 0 time lost on my part.

 

Your experience =/= the experience of others.

[Doomsaga]

Oh i don't havy any doubt they will add LFD since lobby gaming is the new hit. It won't be long that the planets are getting empty because people stay in the fleet trolling /general and waiting for an instant teleport to get their run for the day.

 

Dude to be honest i play republic the planets are already dead to me and ive heard pretty funny trolls in general chat so i might enjoy it lol. When i started mmo it was back in the late 90s the community back than were generally in thier lteens to early 20s so alot of ppl had free time, nowadays mmos have gotten more popular with the older crowd as well as the same crowd however the same/newer ppl now have jobs and work for a living so dont have as much time to dedicate to mmos like they used to. which is why alot of them have evolved to more casual friendly. i loved EQ and ffxi but i dont have to same time i had to dedicate like i used to and manys dont. back than casuals were the minority now they are the majority

[darkcerb]

Your experience =/= the experience of others.

 

Right back at you, the difference is I'm not putting mine forward as gospel.

 

It's just what I see on harbinger, a high pop server.

 

And you yourself are saying here that you've gotten these groups on fleet even if you weren't the one spamming someone must have been...

[Thaed]

I think it's funny all of you people who think a selfish/rude person who has no quarms with just rolling on an item for no reason but to be an *** is going to care about his "reputation" anyways lol

 

Do you really think people like this are going to care what you or anyone else on their server thinks of them?

 

Whether or not they care about the reputation they get, it's going to bite them on the *** eventually (assuming same server lfg). Eventually the word spreads not to group with Boba Fatt because he's a ninja/******e/can't play/etc.

[Kaelshi]

You have no evidence that it wouldn't happen, so I suppose the point is moot.

 

Look at it this way. I get in a run with three people from my server. We agree that X won't roll on any gear upgrades if he can take a mount drop unnopposed if it drops. X passes on two upgrades during the run. The mount drops. Since there's a good chance that I'll run with these people again, I pass on the mount.

 

Same situation, cross-server. I'm more than likely never going to see those people again, nor is it likely that they'll call me out if I need on the mount, so I do. What's it matter anyway? I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain, it's not like I care what three random people I'll never group with again think about me.

 

Different situation. Our group is fairly undergeared and doing a HM flashpoint. We wipe once. I'm more likely to drop out of a cross-server group than a same-server group for reasons stated above: what do I care what three people I'll never speak to again think about me?

 

If I constantly did these things on my server, I'd eventually build up enough of a bad reputation that no-one would want to group with me anymore. With cross-server grouping, who's going to know?

 

Now, personally, I wouldn't do this. I have, however, spoken to people who have this mindset. It is a problem that will more than likely arrive with cross-server grouping.

 

That said, I am not dramatically opposed to it. I'd much rather see a proper same-server LFG tool implimented first and see how that pans out, then add cross server grouping if it becomes necessary (perhaps even only on certain low pop servers).

 

Fine then - there will be people more likely to drop out of a cross-server group. That is remedied by the very obvious and simple fact - they can just re-queue and get someone in a matter of minutes.

 

As for your first example I call bs - you're not passing because you're going to run with them again if it's a pug. You're passing because he is passing on the other gear, plain and simple. You could do the same thing in a cross-server group. It has 0 to do with being a pug server-side or x-server side.

 

If you're not comfortable with the situation in a x-server - then don't agree with it, if ti sa problem, drop group re-que, you'll get in a group where it will work out.

 

Let me ask you something realistic - since it applies to me.

 

Would you rather I

 

A. join a LFD group, and my baby wakes up or my work calls and I have to drop 15 minutes into the op. No problem - you reque and get another healer asap

 

or

 

B. Server-side Pug. We're half way into the op, work calls, sorry guys gotta go. You now have to go back out to fleet and spam for another healer unelss you are lucky enough for one of you to have a guildie/friend. The chances are increased that you wont be finishing that run tonight - sorry

 

I'd offer you the same deal I offered the others in this thread - if you're ok with B, and B happens pretty regularly with me because of my real life - then let me know your server, I'd rather run dungeons with server-side groups but when I have to drop you can't get mad at me and i will drop probably about 40-50% of the time.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Kaelshi

[JeremyDale]

I haven't once sat in LFG spamming for groups. In fact, I don't think I've ever made a single post looking for a group on my sniper. I just see a group asking for dps and join them with 0 time lost on my part.

 

Your experience =/= the experience of others.

 

Well just let me say it's been my experience to sit for hours LFG spamming also. I can't count the number of times I've sat on the fleet bored out of mind on the nerver-ending quest to find a tank. So trust me, just because you have been lucky so far doesn't mean the rest of us have.

[Zoggel]

Greetings folks!

 

We have reopened the thread for discussion.

 

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