Are sentinels/marauders getting fixed anytime soon?

[Jedihighguard]

Why don't all you people crying for a marauder nerf go try and play one. The marauder only needs a billion keys to play the class.

 

Perhaps you should try one before you cry nerf and see how easy it is to play.

 

Im guessing you will go back to your ezmode bh's and troopers.

[EternalFinality]

Yes, operatives/scoundrels were overwhelming in numbers. Guess a brainded monkey is dead.

 

They weren't overpowered. But they could kill the class that was - the most played class - Sorcs.

 

So obviously they had to be nerfed. Just like they nerfed fear for no reason multiple times in WoW even though it was the rogues that were overpowered - but fear beat rogues (at least the ones who weren't undead)

Edited February 14, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Chaosmagistrate]

Just curious.......

How do Sentinel/Marauders have the "best" interrupts?

Because they have to be in melee range to use their kick?

Because they have to waste their "close the gap" ability?

 

How is that the "best" when compared to ranged interrupts?

 

AOE damage?!?!?!

We have 1 AOE ability, Force sweep.

We have 1 Cone ability.

We have 1 CC ability, Awe, and any damage to the targets cancels it.

 

Yes, we can tear apart a healer quickly, if they use no heals, no CC, no CDs.

Guess what, we can be torn apart in seconds if we use no CDs also.

 

Best interrupts - If we spec Watchman, and have Awe and Force Stasis ready(aka not used) we can have a pretty effective interrupt chain. We give up the burst of Combat and Focus builds.

 

Melee range kick is kind of sad compared to ranged interrupt of the Sage, but the cooldown reduction makes up for it.

 

We do have really good AoE, if we go Focus spec, but then we give up the single target burst of Combat, and the interrupt chain of Watchman. But the build is really easy to telegraph and can be countered so easily.

 

Cone ability - Cyclone Slash is facepalm, the only useful thing about that for PvP is door denial, and Centering buildup.

 

Awe is good for a seconday interrupt, but considering how stupid some people are at filling resolve bars up, its kind of hit or miss. It is however quite handy at protecting doors.

 

The person you were addressing might have been fighting a demigod as no Sentinel has the best CC(haha leg slash, no stun facepalm), cannot have best AoE and best interrupt at the same time, but to be fair can tear apart healers in seconds if the healers are afk.

 

And any class is great with a pocket healer. That is probably one of the most obvious things ever. Even a Scrapper is really good with a pocket healer. A healer is pretty boss with a pocket healer. LAWLZ

[Sabbathius]

Just look at the video that has been posted 3-4 times in this thread already. here I'll post it one more time:

 

There is like one fight 1v1, the rest he's outnumbered 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.

 

Dude, do you have a brain? Make sure it's plugged in.

 

That video you linked, the very first fight is a 3v1. Two of those people are also Marauders. Which is a mirror of the Sentinel. He beats them anyway. What does it prove? That Sentinel > Marauder? NO. It proves that bad players are bad. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

If anything, this video you linked shows that a well played character can spank just about anyone. Including it's own mirror class. Even if outnumbered 2 to 1.

[GrandMike]

Why don't all you people crying for a marauder nerf go try and play one. The marauder only needs a billion keys to play the class.

 

Perhaps you should try one before you cry nerf and see how easy it is to play.

 

Im guessing you will go back to your ezmode bh's and troopers.

 

If you cant cope with playing one make merc/commando.

 

They weren't overpowered. But they could kill the class that was - the most played class - Sorcs.

 

Yeeees, this is obvious reason. "tinfoil hats on"

 

So even by your "reason" marauders will be nerfed very soon - since they mop the floor with sorc.

[Sabbathius]

Yeeees, this is obvious reason. "tinfoil hats on"

 

So even by your "reason" marauders will be nerfed very soon - since they mop the floor with sorc.

 

That's not too far fetched. Happens in MMOs all the time. Buddy of mine was playing a mage in WoW when Cata rolled around, and he freely and openly admitted his class was grossly overpowered. The only class that could reliably take him was a druid, specifically feral druid - class with high DoT bleed damage, highly mobile, almost impossible to kite, with a short interrupt. Sound familiar? Yeah, Anni Mara.

 

What happens? Mages cry to high heaven. There's WAAAAAY more mages than there are druids. Within a month or so, druids get nerfed into the ground. As in, class mechanics that were present since release day got changed, specifically so they would no longer be a threat to one class - mages.

 

Sound familiar? That's exactly what happened with Operatives. And now it looks like people have taken aim at Marauders next.

 

Funnily enough, only now, over a year later, Blizzard is finally starting to say stuff like "Crap, yes, I guess mages are a little too much, we're going to have to limit the CC they can get a bit." And since Bioware is basically following the Blizzard handbook of horrible, stupid mistakes step by step, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Maras nerfed, and still no nerfs to Sorc or Merc, which take considerably less skill to play.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Sabbathius

[Chaosmagistrate]

Just look at the video that has been posted 3-4 times in this thread already. here I'll post it one more time:

 

There is like one fight 1v1, the rest he's outnumbered 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.

 

It's not every spec, it's the Watchman/Annihilation spec, Juyo stance users.

 

They outdamage AoE spamming Sorcs/Sages with single target damage...

 

 

It is the only AC+spec combination I stun and run away from. And my new alt is lvl 35, guess what AC+spec it is?

 

ROFLMAO...OMG, I saw the first fight and was LAUGHING so loud, that I almost got busted in the office for not working too hard.

 

Did you even see those three Imperials....AHAHHAHAHAHA, oh cripes.

 

The player in POV is a battlemaster with one BM saber and one Champion. The other three, only one of them even has a Champion saber. By the looks of the armour, BM chest on the player, and Champ chest on one of the other guys, and the other dude is wearing lvl 40 robes. First guy was already dead anyways and was free kill. Two marauders versus a Sentinel and not one pacify. Only one choke to mitigate. No Force Camos to drop targets. No awes to buy time. Mis-timed Rebukes. Hell, the player didn't even awe because he knew how terrible they were. The Bounty Hunter also screwed the Marauders by maxing the player's resolve bar.

 

I'm not even bother watching the rest as this is on par with the "Over 9000 Sweep" video and the "Over 9000 Operative" videos. It's a good player who is walking over people who have zero gear, and wouldn't last five seconds in 2200+ rated arena.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Chaosmagistrate

[vindianajones]

Fixed how? There's nothing wrong with them. I think you're playing the wrong game. It's more about having more Sages/Sorcerers than the other team. Utility/CC/Healing > Pure DPS.

[Vegathegreat]

ROFLMAO...OMG, I saw the first fight and was LAUGHING so loud, that I almost got busted in the office for not working too hard.

 

Did you even see those three Imperials....AHAHHAHAHAHA, oh cripes.

 

The player in POV is a battlemaster with one BM saber and one Champion. The other three, only one of them even has a Champion saber. By the looks of the armour, BM chest on the player, and Champ chest on one of the other guys, and the other dude is wearing lvl 40 robes. First guy was already dead anyways and was free kill. Two marauders versus a Sentinel and not one pacify. Only one choke to mitigate. No Force Camos to drop targets. No awes to buy time. Mis-timed Rebukes. Hell, the player didn't even awe because he knew how terrible they were. The Bounty Hunter also screwed the Marauders by maxing the player's resolve bar.

 

I'm not even bother watching the rest as this is on par with the "Over 9000 Sweep" video and the "Over 9000 Operative" videos. It's a good player who is walking over people who have zero gear, and wouldn't last five seconds in 2200+ rated arena.

 

what he said...and i didnt even watch the video.....

 

if you dont play the game 100% then you cant complain......the problem is not the classes, its you

[exphryl]

Just look at the video that has been posted 3-4 times in this thread already. here I'll post it one more time:

 

There is like one fight 1v1, the rest he's outnumbered 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.

 

It's not every spec, it's the Watchman/Annihilation spec, Juyo stance users.

 

They outdamage AoE spamming Sorcs/Sages with single target damage...

 

 

It is the only AC+spec combination I stun and run away from. And my new alt is lvl 35, guess what AC+spec it is?

 

The video is a joke for the most part, obviously he's putting in his good fights.

 

How many times was he stunned when he used Guarded By The Force?

 

Yeah...

 

Good players will beat 2 + Bad players...

[chrisleaptrott]

Lately it literally has come down to "whoever has the most sentinel/marauders in their team win".

 

They're too tough, have too many utilities to not die or escape, and they do a crapload of damage, like, really, it's the only class posing any sort of threat in terms of damage in endgame pvp, only shadows/assassins come close.

 

I don't think that feeling as if your team is at a disatvantage for every dps you have that isn't a sentinel is the way bioware intended their game to be.

 

Sure in 10-49 pvp there's gunnery/arsenal people 3-4 hitting everyone, then in endgame where it actually counts, this game becomes some atrocious melee centric fest.

 

You should try playing one for a while and see if you think they need to be 'fixed'.

[Chaosmagistrate]

That's not too far fetched. Happens in MMOs all the time. Buddy of mine was playing a mage in WoW when Cata rolled around, and he freely and openly admitted his class was grossly overpowered. The only class that could reliably take him was a druid, specifically feral druid - class with high DoT bleed damage, highly mobile, almost impossible to kite, with a short interrupt. Sound familiar? Yeah, Anni Mara.

 

What happens? Mages cry to high heaven. There's WAAAAAY more mages than there are druids. Within a month or so, druids get nerfed into the ground. As in, class mechanics that were present since release day got changed, specifically so they would no longer be a threat to one class - mages.

 

Sound familiar? That's exactly what happened with Operatives. And now it looks like people have taken aim at Marauders next.

 

Funnily enough, only now, over a year later, Blizzard is finally starting to say stuff like "Crap, yes, I guess mages are a little too much, we're going to have to limit the CC they can get a bit." And since Bioware is basically following the Blizzard handbook of horrible, stupid mistakes step by step, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Maras nerfed, and still no nerfs to Sorc or Merc, which take considerably less skill to play.

 

I was never around for Wrath, but its the same old in any MMO...each class has a hard counter, and when all you see is one or two types of classes, aka Sage/Sorc and Merc/Commando, you are going to see a lot of people take advantage of that. I purposely do NOT spec Focus, as there are so many Sorcs on my server, if I had a 1s cd interrupt, it wouldn't be enough(that would be overpowered).

 

Each class cries about the hard counter. In S1 and S2, a mage hard countered almost any melee except a Shadowstep rogue, Warlock, any healer, druid. Warlocks were hard countered by warriors with Stormheralds. Healers were god mode in duels, and so forth.

 

A Sentinel's hard counter is a 31 point madness/balance sage/sorc, and a very very very well played sniper on open ground. And when I say hard counter, I mean classes designed to make Sentinels look stupid and kill them with over 50% HP left.

 

Watchman Sentinels are designed to hard counter immobile casters, aka seer/tk sages, cm/gunnery commandos. Scoundrels give me fits, still killable, but they make me work for it. Powetechs make me mad, and anyone who has a guard makes me want to throw my computer out the window.

 

It's an MMO. There will always be paper rock scissors, asking for paper paper paper is impossible as gear(as the video posted) makes a vast difference and skill level does too.

[GrandMike]

That's not too far fetched. Happens in MMOs all the time. Buddy of mine was playing a mage in WoW when Cata rolled around, and he freely and openly admitted his class was grossly overpowered. The only class that could reliably take him was a druid, specifically feral druid - class with high DoT bleed damage, highly mobile, almost impossible to kite, with a short interrupt. Sound familiar? Yeah, Anni Mara.

 

What happens? Mages cry to high heaven. There's WAAAAAY more mages than there are druids. Within a month or so, druids get nerfed into the ground. As in, class mechanics that were present since release day got changed, specifically so they would no longer be a threat to one class - mages.

 

Sound familiar? That's exactly what happened with Operatives. And now it looks like people have taken aim at Marauders next.

 

Funnily enough, only now, over a year later, Blizzard is finally starting to say stuff like "Crap, yes, I guess mages are a little too much, we're going to have to limit the CC they can get a bit." And since Bioware is basically following the Blizzard handbook of horrible, stupid mistakes step by step, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Maras nerfed, and still no nerfs to Sorc or Merc, which take considerably less skill to play.

 

Tinfoil hats on.

 

Unfortunately for you, and your conspiracy theory, there are quite more than 1 class that kill sorc reliably. sooooo...um...no?

Edited February 14, 2012 by GrandMike

[Chaosmagistrate]

I'm going to start doing the opposite of posting clips of how awesome I am.

 

I am going to post the number of times I have fought Sorcs with PTs gaurding them and CCing me preventing me from doing anything to the Sorc, while the Sorc heals the rest of the team, in hopes I can get guard nerfed...Cuz it is ********, that two guys working in tandem, on Ventrilo, being guarded and healing should be able to beat my freaking awesomeness. I mean, c'mon, there's a video of my class curbstomping people 1v2, so how come I can't curbstomp a Sorc/PT combo or a Sawbones/PT combo or a Merc/PT combo.

 

/end sarcasm

[darthtoph]

Lately it literally has come down to "whoever has the most sentinel/marauders in their team win".

 

They're too tough, have too many utilities to not die or escape, and they do a crapload of damage, like, really, it's the only class posing any sort of threat in terms of damage in endgame pvp, only shadows/assassins come close.

 

I don't think that feeling as if your team is at a disatvantage for every dps you have that isn't a sentinel is the way bioware intended their game to be.

 

Sure in 10-49 pvp there's gunnery/arsenal people 3-4 hitting everyone, then in endgame where it actually counts, this game becomes some atrocious melee centric fest.

 

But according to this thread Marauder/Sentinels suck bigtime:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=300288

 

Ahh, the benefits of having a decent and enlightened community. Oh, wait....

[Winkywinky]

you should never lose to one ability. it doesnt matter what class or spec or whatever. its why so many people are crying about grav round/tracer round.

 

for sents its Guarded by the Force...if you dont have a stun rdy a sent can easly do 5-8k damage...

 

this is the very same reason Fear was nerfed in wow...people were being feared and easly losing 1/2 their hps...

[KronikInsomniak]

you should never lose to one ability. it doesnt matter what class or spec or whatever. its why so many people are crying about grav round/tracer round.

 

for sents its Guarded by the Force...if you dont have a stun rdy a sent can easly do 5-8k damage...

 

this is the very same reason Fear was nerfed in wow...people were being feared and easly losing 1/2 their hps...

 

No you are wrong and have a terrible understanding of the game if you are using that example

[Vegathegreat]

you should never lose to one ability. it doesnt matter what class or spec or whatever. its why so many people are crying about grav round/tracer round.

 

for sents its Guarded by the Force...if you dont have a stun rdy a sent can easly do 5-8k damage...

 

this is the very same reason Fear was nerfed in wow...people were being feared and easly losing 1/2 their hps...

 

dude rock,scissors,paper......its the best way for a mmo to be, yes you will get facerolled by spammers if you dont have multiple interupts, thats why you make friends with a sent/mara and then you dont worry about it as much.....see what i did there

[AzKnc]

You should try playing one for a while and see if you think they need to be 'fixed'.

 

As a matter of fact i do have access to one, bm too, and after using it i felt as dirty as a cheap whore.

 

Dunno if you've noticed but any decent sentinel/marauder has been admitting that the class is REALLY strong, bordering on being op. It's just the way it is. People accusing me of trolling or saying i need to l2p and **** are probably either people who didn't reach 50 and geared up yet, or keyboard turners with the wrong spec.

Edited February 14, 2012 by AzKnc

[Chaosmagistrate]

Holy crap. I decided to watch the video in its entirety...and wow....just wow.

 

Don't get me wrong this JT guys is a good Sentinel, no doubt, but the players he fought.../facepalm....

 

That final fight with the Rage Marauder made me cry, like cry for real. He walked to JT and striked to get rage instead of Force Leap. He even striked three times and then popped Force Sweep...No Force Exhaustion, No Force Stasis. No Zealous Strike-AT ALL. Once again no Pacify. Either that Marauder is a botter, or he/she does not deserve those Champion sabers...I'm still speechless at how terrible that Marauder was.

 

That lone Sorc on Alderaan was so squishy, was still wearing robes instead of jetfighter gear. I wish JT has HP numbers up, because that sorc was sporting zero expertise and probably had sub 13k HP.

 

And di you see those two bounty hunters...that second one OMG.....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, kyboard turner and backpedaler, who only uses tracer missile. That Merc was so terrible, I'm happy to see that JT didn't even waste 1 Forcus to interrupt it lol. Also fail gear.

 

The Guardian GS combo...fail gear, and I mean FAIL gear. JT read the textbook Force Exhaustion buildup, and bam Pacify, wasted Sweep, lawlz...That was pretty clutch by JT...but let's be honest Focus spec is so easy to telegraph...and that GS was mega squishy...and no Push to save his GS or at least buy his GS time...no guard or taunt...like how did that Guardian get his Battlemaster rank?!?!?

 

Vanguard Gunslinger combo...the GS walked within 10ms of JT and took cover, with his back to a lip-WRONG place to take cover. And the GS moved for Force Camo...lol...Tho nice biochem save on the Vanguard again. And *** was the GS doing not getting the heal pack 3 feet away.

 

I would be interested in seeing when JT got robbed by good players...because every single player he killed in that video was terrible. Not a single one of them deserved their Battlemaster titles or their sabers...I'm not selling JT short(His pacify timing is impecacble), but those guys WERE FAILURE. It also helps that he is a Biochem.

[thekrazo]

That JT video is just funny. Obviously he chose fights where the people were bad. He still 2v1 and 3v1ed them.

 

Here is a video of one of the best marauders on our server. Marauders were a big part of most of the top placing teams in our 3v3 and 4v4 tournaments.

 

http://www.swtormovies.com/movieview.php?id=1591

 

Now compare his play to the video from the sig of one of the guys saying marauders are bad:

 

 

^ That guy is awful.

 

There are probably 5 or 6 marauders on our server who come close to Bago. There are another 10-20 who are still really scary. Then every good player seems to be making a marauder alt.

 

People saying marauders have no group utility have no idea what they're talking about. One marauder can negate a healer. The healer has to focus completely on staying alive because he'll never get a cast off. That's group utility. Plus marauders have the only real group buffs with predation and bloodthirst. And the ability to walk through fire and tank people carrying the ball across the goal line in huttball like Bago does in the video are pretty useful.

 

I think they're the best class in the game right now and have thought that for a while. That's not to say they're OP. It's just to say that you're all clueless bads.

[Zarthorn]

You have got to be joking.

 

Actually he isn't.

 

Marauders/Sents have been underestimated for a while because they are melee orientated and have a mechanic that takes some getting used to.

 

But what they bring to the table is pretty insane:

 

High dps

Combat stealth

Group oriented buffs

The only heal debuff in the game

100% armor bypass for 4 GCDs

Great survivability for short periods of time with there defensive cooldowns

 

The only thing that stands out to me as a sore thumb is the 100% armor penetration, that's the part of the Mara/Sent that is overpowered, remember Ops/Scoundrels got there 50% armor pen reduced because Bioware thought it was too much.

[Chaosmagistrate]

Actually he isn't.

 

Marauders/Sents have been underestimated for a while because they are melee orientated and have a mechanic that takes some getting used to.

 

But what they bring to the table is pretty insane:

 

High dps

Combat stealth

Group oriented buffs

The only heal debuff in the game

100% armor bypass for 4 GCDs

Great survivability for short periods of time with there defensive cooldowns

 

The only thing that stands out to me as a sore thumb is the 100% armor penetration, that's the part of the Mara/Sent that is overpowered, remember Ops/Scoundrels got there 50% armor pen reduced because Bioware thought it was too much.

 

WhotF plays combat all that much really? I only play it for fun or when I have certain combos for premades. And it's 3 GCDs as PS puts you on the global, and that is assuming no1 messes you out of it to run your buff down, cuz that would be real smart wouldn't it?

 

I am not denying that Sentinels and Marauders are finally starting to learn their class and getting gear and people are finding that they actually scale well in team play, and people are starting to see that they aren't as underpowered as people first thought. It is a class that is heavily reliant on gear and a few extra firing neurons to play well.

[Winkywinky]

dude rock,scissors,paper......its the best way for a mmo to be, yes you will get facerolled by spammers if you dont have multiple interupts, thats why you make friends with a sent/mara and then you dont worry about it as much.....see what i did there

 

you do understand how rock,paper,scissors work right?

 

before the match starts both sides are even ...when people use that analogy in a mmo the fight is predetermined beforehand..

 

mmos dont really use the rock,paper,scissors method...they just like to say they do...

 

 

on a side note.. making friends has nothing to do with buffing or nerfing class's.

[Anelitt]

I have to admit Sentinels/marauders seem increadibly strong right now.

 

Feels like mix of Super dps/Tank meeting them, with some nice CC on top of it.