GRINnBARRETT Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 would be nice to see more sorcerers/sages removing some of the dots of their allys teamplay could help much Only problem with this is: I can barely see my own buffs, forget about raid frame buffs. Buffs & debuffs should have their own customization separate from the player frame so healers can better see things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechintel Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If the raid frame ui wasn't absolute **** perhaps I could see debuffs and know when a cleanse is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slackfumasta Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 lets just remove all skills and abilities from PVP and stare blankly at one another and take turns capturing seriously, enough is enough. DoT's are a form of damage, it's no different than someone running up to you and hitting you as you try to capture an objective. Some classes have the abilities to remove negative affects from themselves and others. Game mechanics, get used to them. No, DoTs continually interrupting captures is cheap. WoW figured this out a long time ago and fixed it the right way - only the first tick of any DoT or AoE will interrupt casting, and this is how it should be in SW, in order to make it take a smidgen of effort to keep people from capping your node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 As a dirty fighting gunslinger it might suprize you that I actually support this. I can permanently keep 3 players from taking a turret from me through death. My aoe bleed can't be dispelled as far as I know. Solo guarded a turret last night for a good three deaths while the pugtards tried to take a third base for no reason. The initial dot should kill it. Not every tick for the next 18 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyofwar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) The DoT tactic is actually not OP. Its very great strat to delay a capture an have team come to help. The issue is right now is versus the average player that does not know how to handle it. They will get owned. The person can fly back to the side base on Civil War and DoT them again. There are many ways around this DoT Tactic. 1. Bring a stealthy. Have him sit out till the "DoT happy player is dead" Then unstealth and capture the node. 2. Bring a sorc while a shield is active on you it will not break slicing the node. 3. Bring a merc healer. His shield CD makes him immune to interupts an can capture the node. 4. Have players stand at the speeder drop location an knock the landing player away from node as soon as he lands and stun/kill him while one person captures node. All these things work. But expecting it from a pug group is a little bit unlikely. Premade don't have this issue. Unless they are letting pugs attack the side base. A simple fix to make this strategy still useful. Is just move the speeder drop points in the civil war for the side bases 5-10yards back giving even the uncoordinated pugs a fighting chance to prevent this. Edited February 13, 2012 by Furyofwar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Earnestly, I think this needs to be changed and that dots do not prevent players from capping a point. This makes VoidStar and Alderaan such a stagnant affair and plays a huge factor in how difficult it is to capture a point. It is stupid how a single player can defend a point forever with this. I think the WZs would be more dynamic and more fun if this was changed. You might have a point, but what bugs me even more is having to spam my out of combat heal forever because I have a dot on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErrantMercenary Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Of which again, directly affects some class specialization trees all together. Basically saying that the only thing some would be able to do is a pew pew or stabby stabby at best without using their skills. All it would take to basically remove those players from the scenario then is to interact with the door to place the bombs. No. This is wrong. I'm not asking for DoTs to stop doing damage, or to be any less potent in combat. By all means, murder my face off with a mountain of DoT spells. But when YOU are dead, and I am not, and I am standing ALONE at your node, I have won the combat, and am entitled to claim the spoils of victory. Furthermore, when it comes to interrupting, why do you need your best abilities? When I'm crunched for time and I just HAVE to interrupt the cap, I'm not waiting to cast a good spell or planning out my best ability. I'm mashing my basic attack for the fastest possible damage to interrupt the cap so I may resume doing more meaningful things. Cap interruption has nothing to do with the abilities relative combat power since 1 damage will interrupt the same as 1000. Anyone that says I just need to L2Cleanse (I play a Commando primarily) is not playing a cleansing class. The DoTs chiefly responsible for the problem are Internal Damage, which cannot be cleansed, often giving upwards of 18 seconds of time where I cannot cap. This is a very simple concept really, but I'll put it in big letters since this is the internet: In order to defend a node, the defending team must commit at least one actual person to that action Being able to defend a node with zero people is imbalanced, regardless of why that's possible. Whether it's DoT's, glitches, or exploitation, it's ridiculous to expect a fair fight when one side can use zero of their available resources to complete a game objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 lets just remove all skills and abilities from PVP and stare blankly at one another and take turns capturing seriously, enough is enough. DoT's are a form of damage, it's no different than someone running up to you and hitting you as you try to capture an objective. Some classes have the abilities to remove negative affects from themselves and others. Game mechanics, get used to them. It is different. Dots dont put you in combat. Someone running up to you and hitting you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulli Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you can't win WZ because 1 player is interrupting your whole team, your team has a whole different problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The DoT tactic is actually not OP. Its very great strat to delay a capture an have team come to help. The issue is right now is versus the average player that does not know how to handle it. They will get owned. The person can fly back to the side base on Civil War and DoT them again. There are many ways around this DoT Tactic. 1. Bring a stealthy. Have him sit out till the "DoT happy player is dead" Then unstealth and capture the node. 2. Bring a sorc while a shield is active on you it will not break slicing the node. 3. Bring a merc healer. His shield CD makes him immune to interupts an can capture the node. 4. Have players stand at the speeder drop location an knock the landing player away from node as soon as he lands and stun/kill him while one person captures node. All these things work. But expecting it from a pug group is a little bit unlikely. Premade don't have this issue. Unless they are letting pugs attack the side base. A simple fix to make this strategy still useful. Is just move the speeder drop points in the civil war for the side bases 5-10yards back giving even the uncoordinated pugs a fighting chance to prevent this. "EA Games 250K Best of the Battlefield Tournament Winner" Amazing accomplishment. I can totally understand why you thought we would care. Moving the landing back that far would give those of us with aoe dots better Los to hit cappers with. Nice strats though, probably picked those up in that battlefield tournament. EA Games 250K Best of the Battlefield Tournament Winner" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 People need to L2Cleans. Seriously, dumbing down pvp any more would be just stupid. Its not wanting PvP dumbed down. Dots should not keep you in combat once you kill the person who put it on you. You should not be interrupted by damage when you arent in combat. I can maybe see still being setback. Dumbing down is different than making things work like they should. It may seem like its dumbing down, because people have developed tactics around this bad game mechanic, but its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krionic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oh, as an assault trooper I'm totally for this idea. You can take away my dots, but also lets get rid of stuns too. totally unfair that I'm about to stop someone from capping with my dot.. I mean my hammer shot.. oh wait, that can trigger a dot too. Ok, i'm about to run up and hit them then all of a sudden I'm stunned. No fair. How on earth can i stop a guy from capping a door in voidstar if I can get stunned. Yah, and knockbacks too. those things suck and make everything so unfair. Might as well get rid of my cleanse too since I wont need that skill to remove dots from myself/others. srslyrily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfeds Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I agree fully. Only sorcs and sages can dispel the force powered dots. Operative healers can do nothing against them. Im pretty sure mercs cant either. If you are going to let dots interrupt capping a point, then let all healers dispel all dots. The number advantages that Sorc/Sages have in PvP is starting to get very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErrantMercenary Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you can't win WZ because 1 player is interrupting your whole team, your team has a whole different problem. Can we put it out there that no one supporting removing the "DoT interrupt mechanic" ever said this was happening? PvP is a game of capitalizing on limited opportunities, and it's not that one person interrupts the whole team, it's that too many of the opportunities get squandered AFTER you have already worked very hard to defeat the defending team Arbitrarily losing to zero defenders after having won the combat is ridiculous, and it needs to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you can't win WZ because 1 player is interrupting your whole team, your team has a whole different problem. Who cares if its causing wins or losses? Its stupid. Its not gamebreaking so it isnt really that big of a deal. Its just a change that should be made, becuase it makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furyofwar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) "EA Games 250K Best of the Battlefield Tournament Winner" Amazing accomplishment. I can totally understand why you thought we would care. Moving the landing back that far would give those of us with aoe dots better Los to hit cappers with. Nice strats though, probably picked those up in that battlefield tournament. EA Games 250K Best of the Battlefield Tournament Winner" Nice attempt at pretending your decent at pvp. Moving the speeder point back would put you to far away from the node to cast anything. Giving the baddies time to jump on you an wreck your face. While someone caps it on the "Other side of the node" Ya you can plant aoe around corners. But you will be to far away to do anything. Anyone capturing a node with there back facing the enemy team landing point is fail an will never help them. I know how range aoe's work an you will be killed while you land an "TRY" to hop closer to aoe but you will never get in range an die. So thanks for posting. Next time you pretend like your good dont come up with something stupid Edited February 13, 2012 by Furyofwar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idockdudes Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oh, as an assault trooper I'm totally for this idea. You can take away my dots, but also lets get rid of stuns too. totally unfair that I'm about to stop someone from capping with my dot.. I mean my hammer shot.. oh wait, that can trigger a dot too. Ok, i'm about to run up and hit them then all of a sudden I'm stunned. No fair. How on earth can i stop a guy from capping a door in voidstar if I can get stunned. Yah, and knockbacks too. those things suck and make everything so unfair. Might as well get rid of my cleanse too since I wont need that skill to remove dots from myself/others. srslyrily? A dot should interrupt someone from capping as long as you stay alive and keep that person in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etagnirps Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) or.. how about this for a fix, clicking the turret/capture point is instant (not an 8 second pause) BUT once you click it the enemy team has say 10 - 15 seconds to click it again to deactivate the transfer of the turret etc... so for those 10 - 15 seconds you and your team have to guard the objective and not stand there hoping DoTs etc won't stop the capture... Edited February 13, 2012 by Etagnirps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfreudHC Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If we do this I say we need to go further: Only the targeted person of your attacks gets interrupted. No more AOE interrupting entire teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Earnestly, I think this needs to be changed and that dots do not prevent players from capping a point. This makes VoidStar and Alderaan such a stagnant affair and plays a huge factor in how difficult it is to capture a point. It is stupid how a single player can defend a point forever with this. I think the WZs would be more dynamic and more fun if this was changed. No. How about you get your team to kill that single player, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krionic Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 or.. how about this for a fix, clicking the turret/capture point is instant (not an 8 second pause) BUT once you click it the enemy team has say 10 - 15 seconds to click it again to deactivate the transfer of the turret etc... so for thos 10 - 15 seconds you and your team have to guard the objective and not stand there hoping DoTs etc won't stop the capture... Why? If I light you on fire and I suddenly die. You are still on fire. if you dont like the fire, have someone extinguish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etagnirps Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Why? If I light you on fire and I suddenly die. You are still on fire. if you dont like the fire, have someone extinguish it. fair point, was just throwing an idea in, personally don't find that DoTs bother me in civil war etc, probably because as a juggernaut I guard my team while they cap it.... thought of it as an idea so that DoT's etc don't have to be changed, because as an ability they work perfectly fine, but as stated before, if I kill you, I won the duel and should be able to claim the reward (in civil wars case, the turret) so can see both sides of the argument to a degree and thought of it as a possible solution. Edited February 13, 2012 by Etagnirps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErrantMercenary Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why? If I light you on fire and I suddenly die. You are still on fire. if you dont like the fire, have someone extinguish it. A perfectly fair assessment, but it ignores that certain brands of fire in this scenario are inextinguishable, and thus, impact balance and game mechanics. Let's all take a minute and look at it from the other side of the coin: Imagine you're defending in Civil War and along come 4 attackers to your node. A fight ensues, but lo and behold, you are victorious! Three of your mates are dead and respawning, but you're still alive, and there's no attacker in sight. But what's this? The node is STILL CAPPING? How is that possible? All the attackers in question are dead and dispersed! You lose the point, watching helplessly as your ability to defend is circumvented by A CORPSE. Obviously, the above scenario sounds completely absurd, and as well it should. In the scenario above, a team is successfully attacking a node despite having zero surviving attackers with which to perform that action. The reverse is what we're dealing with currently. DoT's beyond the initial casting interrupting the cap allows situations where defenders can protect nodes without people. If this happened to you in an attacking scenario you'd (rightfully) be infuriated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senefera Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I wouldn't have that much of an issue with DoTs if they weren't as spammable, lasted as long and all of them could be dispelled. This is not the case. I frequently use the DoT tactic, and it has to go. It dumbs down the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calista_ZK Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If the raid frame ui wasn't absolute **** perhaps I could see debuffs and know when a cleanse is needed. Agreed. It isn't so much a L2P issue in some cases but the horrible UI. Haven't had this issue in other games where the bar on the group make-up easily allowed me to see exactly what buff/debuffs were on people, allowed me to resize their icons, and allowed to to move the group bar as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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