How to beat a Sorcerer/sage or why they arn't overpowered ;)

[me_unknown]

exactly.

 

Let me walk you how a fight vs a sorc look, for a melee.

 

-Start fighting, first hit absorbed by the bubble.

-He KBs

-I am rooted in place for 2 seconds, waiting as he start unleashing the fury on me.

-Finally the roots end! I use my gap closer and land IN HIS FACE, HECK YEAH!

-The combat can finally really begin, I'm rea- I get stunned.

-I quickly break the stun!

-He force speed away, while I try to catch him at a snail pace, because I already used my gap closer.

-I Finally catch him again! BASHHHH and YES I BREAK THE BUBBLE, HES GONNA DIEE!

-He cast another bubble FUUUUUUU

 

(this is really how I sound when I pvp. Yes, nerd rage).

 

Basically, before any melee can start doing any real damage to a sorc, the melee will be at 50% health and the sorc still at 100%.

 

mind tell me which melee you are playing?

 

anyhow, lets assume your final sentence is right: at this point the sage is at 100% and the melee at 50%. but now due to the logner cds of the sage you won't keep the melee away and he does FAR MORE damage than you.

 

and no stunns etc work anymore on you as your resolve bar is full. and i can do **** damage on the run, you can kill me while running.

 

actually, you are quite right . it is not as you descrived 100% to 50% but in goes into the right direction. most fights vs melees start like this. but the hard time for the sage starts here! and a good sage will try to avoid this. he will try to avoid the need of utilities as much as possible, using the enviroment. because when they are on cd and/or the melees resolve bar is full the sage is DEAD!

 

don'T judge by level 20 or 30 pvp. wait for endgame pvp and you'll see what i am talking about.

 

edit: btw. as a sentinel you either pvp as watchman or focus. as focus you have two jumps and some other decent utilities. as watchman your dots ingoring damage do more damge while i am running away from you than i can do to you while i stand still.

oh and not to forget that as watchman i have a quite short cd on jump, every 6s interrupt etc.

 

i know it, i play watchman sentinel too.

Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown

[RefugeASSASSIN]

you are obviously lying to defend yourself. i know that the interrupt locks down only this one spell. but tell me what damage can i do if my spammable spell has been locked down, when all the other big hitters are long casts that actually are only used with an instant making proc, which needs my spammable spell to proc?

 

you are simply lying that you have played a Sorc on that level. it is so obvious!

 

Ive seen this response time and time again out of you. "My main damage spell was interrupted so now im derp"

 

This tells me that you have only one rotation that you use at all and once its broke, if you cant run away until the CD is unlocked, then you die.

 

The point people are tryign to make is that you getting interrupted only slows you down, it doesnt cripple you because of all the utility you have at your disposal. You are not required to spam that same rotation over and over. Just because the other attacks have a channel or lower DPS, does not mean you cant use them, you appearently choose not to. The other point people are trying to make to give you a comparison is that if any other class has a main attack interrupted, they lose a majority of their survivability for just the opposite reason. It sounds to me like your the one who needs to learn how to play your class. Drop the tunnel vision.

[zaltanus]

I have a sorc and an op and i've found the best way to kill a sorc/sage is stunlocking. Not difficult- just watch their resolve tick and use your stuns accordingly. Playing my sorc, i've also felt the stun lock effect. Keep stuns up- watch their resolve ticks, make sure you don't max their resolve unless you've got them under 25% (or some killable percentage) and you've got yourself some dead sorc/sages. Also, for people less on the stuns, give interrupt a try every once in a while. Sorcs only about 2 instant casts (one of which is a knockback) so keeping your interrupts on CD is also key.

 

Oh screw it what am I saying? OMG SORC BAD MIRITE U GUYZZZ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? USED TO BE OPS BUT NOW SORCS!!!!! NERFITY NERF NERF NERF!!!1!1!!!!11! :mad::mad:

 

For everyone that will BLARGLBLARGL about op-ness and ignore what I said, here's a picture of cute kittens to calm you down.

[jizerai]

exactly.

 

Let me walk you how a fight vs a sorc look, for a melee.

 

-Start fighting, first hit absorbed by the bubble.

-He KBs

-I am rooted in place for 2 seconds, waiting as he start unleashing the fury on me.

-Finally the roots end! I use my gap closer and land IN HIS FACE, HECK YEAH!

-The combat can finally really begin, I'm rea- I get stunned.

-I quickly break the stun!

-He force speed away, while I try to catch him at a snail pace, because I already used my gap closer.

-I Finally catch him again! BASHHHH and YES I BREAK THE BUBBLE, HES GONNA DIEE!

-He cast another bubble FUUUUUUU

 

(this is really how I sound when I pvp. Yes, nerd rage).

 

Basically, before any melee can start doing any real damage to a sorc, the melee will be at 50% health and the sorc still at 100%.

 

Are you saying that he not only runs away, but "unleashes" on you, in those 2 seconds? And that it takes you down to 50% health?

 

Because you know, your gap-closer is on a 15 sec cooldown, you have a 12 sec snare (with no cooldown, I believe?) a second gap-closer (if spec:ed for it) on a 15 sec cooldown as well as a stun (10m range, I know). And you're not using any of these to make sure that poor Sage/Sorcerer can't get away from you?

 

You're making it out so that you can't use any of your abilities while your enemy has zero response time, perfect positioning and able to not only create distance but roflstomp you in the face while doing it...

[me_unknown]

I

The point people are tryign to make is that you getting interrupted only slows you down, it doesnt cripple you because of all the utility you have at your disposal.

 

this point is worn. many times explained. it drops my already low damage to around 20% of what it was and i do not have much more utilitity as many or most other classes.

 

and two of my stuns/mazes/knocks are enough to make you immune for a longer time than this fight will last. not to forget they have a multiple times higher cd than yuor jump etc.

 

you cannot spam stunns and slows like crazy!

[Orangerascal]

exactly.

 

Let me walk you how a fight vs a sorc look, for a melee.

 

-Start fighting, first hit absorbed by the bubble.

-He KBs

-I am rooted in place for 2 seconds, waiting as he start unleashing the fury on me.

-Finally the roots end! I use my gap closer and land IN HIS FACE, HECK YEAH!

-The combat can finally really begin, I'm rea- I get stunned.

-I quickly break the stun!

-He force speed away, while I try to catch him at a snail pace, because I already used my gap closer.

-I Finally catch him again! BASHHHH and YES I BREAK THE BUBBLE, HES GONNA DIEE!

-He cast another bubble FUUUUUUU

 

(this is really how I sound when I pvp. Yes, nerd rage).

 

Basically, before any melee can start doing any real damage to a sorc, the melee will be at 50% health and the sorc still at 100%.

 

I'm curious ... where in the entire fight you described did the sorc actually do any damage to you ? The sorc gets 1 gcd's worth of a hit during the 2s that your were rooted.

 

So you're saying you're at 50% from 1 attack.

 

Also while the sorc is using their stuns cc's and all that, you make no mention of using yours. Are you saying you have no stuns?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal

[JuicyFruits]

mind tell me which melee you are playing?

 

anyhow, lets assume your final sentence is right: at this point the sage is at 100% and the melee at 50%. but now due to the logner cds of the sage you won't keep the melee away and he does FAR MORE damage than you.

 

and no stunns etc work anymore on you as your resolve bar is full. and i can do **** damage on the run, you can kill me while running.

 

actually, you are quite right . it is not as you descrived 100% to 50% but in goes into the right direction. most fights vs melees start like this. but the hard time for the sage starts here! and a good sage will try to avoid this. he will try to avoid the need of utilities as much as possible, using the enviroment. because when they are on cd and/or the melees resolve bar is full the sage is DEAD!

 

don'T judge by level 20 or 30 pvp. wait for endgame pvp and you'll see what i am talking about.

 

edit: btw. as a sentinel you either pvp as watchman or focus. as focus you have two jumps and some other decent utilities. as watchman your dots ingoring damage do more damge while i am running away from you than i can do to you while i stand still.

oh and not to forget that as watchman i have a quite short cd on jump, every 6s interrupt etc.

 

i know it, i play watchman sentinel too.

 

I play assassin. It is very frustrating, for me sorcs is the hardest class to kill. Even more than BH (which are supposed to be a counter. How funny is that).

 

Only way to beat a sorc is to use all my cooldowns at the same time, and hope I crit. Very interesting gameplay, indeed.

[unicornfive]

I'm curious ... where in the entire fight you described did the sorc actually do any damage to you ? The sorc gets 1 gcd's worth of a hit during the 2s that your were rooted.

 

So you're saying you're at 50% from 1 attack.

 

Also while the sorc is using their stuns cc's and all that, you make no mention of using yours. Are you saying you have no stuns ... here's a tip as it's obvious you're a sentinel or guardian. Force choke during the root.

 

Mara/sent has any cc??? Dude, i think u are playing the wrong game..

[RJChief]

I had a sage during beta. Most of the 50s sages in my guild agree that the sage/sorc class has way too much stuff compared to other classes.

 

I have 11 years of online gaming experience.

 

Why is the thread I linked a good example? Because it analyzes the core of both classes, not based on player skills or player mechanics but because of the core itself.

 

An example: Your PC is running a faster processor than mine. Its a fact. Maybe I overclocked mine to be on par with yours but it doesnt change the fact that the core itself is better.

 

It should be logical. If not point me to another class that has all the following mechanics:

 

- Healing

- "Speed" Healing

- High Damage

- DoTs

- Bubble

- Knockback

- Slow

- Root

- Stun

- Sprint

- Breakable CC / CC Locks

- Slow effect on basic attack

 

Yup. Totally underpowered class

 

I had to stop reading at this point... Did any one else pick out the flaws in this?

 

Seer Sages are the only spec with "Speed Healing". Another dps class that is similar is a Scoundrel -- I forget the spec name but its the middle tree.

High Damage... Only the TK spec has high damage, Seer can have high heals and Balanced can have sustained damage.

Knockback--Sure all the specs have it but only TK can spec (or hybrid) to knockback with a "Root"... sooo I wont comment again on Root.

Stun+Breakable CC---- If you create a light armor casting class without these 2 abilities then no one will play them. Thats a death sentence itself.

Slow effect on basic attack-- 20% decreased movement on a DoT is only applicable to the Seer (healing) spec.

 

Bottom Line: SORCE/SAGE DO NOT HAVE EVERY SINGLE ABILITY ON ALL 3 TALENT TREES. Do understand that there is a wide variety of specs that can be used, and they are all useful, but one single player cannot have all of these abilities. UNDERSTAND EACH CLASS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO CRITICIZE.

[Orangerascal]

Mara/sent has any cc??? Dude, i think u are playing the wrong game..

 

I think you're a bad player if you're a sentinel losing to a sorc 1v1. Read this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294813

 

and see what the community thinks about sentinels.

[me_unknown]

I Just because the other attacks have a channel or lower DPS, does not mean you cant use them, you appearently choose not to.

 

here again you are wrong.

i already explained it in details in my op. so actually if you would have read it this wouldnt be needed:

 

my damage comes from the one spamable spell + the proc to insta cast an heavy hitter.

 

if i have to switch to another cast without any such procs i do at best 20% of the damage considering that EVERY HIT I TAKE sets my castbar back and i do not get that much needed proc!

 

when i eat that interrupt the best thing you can do is NOT to switch to another spell but to run either out of range or break LOS to avoid further damage while you can spam it again, or use a stunn to save some time (which i cannot do every time i am interrupted)

 

if i do not have this and have to switch to a diferent spell withut the chance to do the avove, i am dead!

[jizerai]

Mara/sent has any cc??? Dude, i think u are playing the wrong game..

 

Yes. Yes they have. Both a choke, a snare and a spec:able snare.

[Orangerascal]

I play assassin. It is very frustrating, for me sorcs is the hardest class to kill. Even more than BH (which are supposed to be a counter. How funny is that).

 

Only way to beat a sorc is to use all my cooldowns at the same time, and hope I crit. Very interesting gameplay, indeed.

 

A sorc is a free kill for an assassin, an OP or a sentinel when encountered in a 1v1 environment and have equivalent gear.

 

Ask your peers on how to play your class. Again read this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294813

 

on the best 1v1 classes in the game.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal

[me_unknown]

Mara/sent has any cc??? Dude, i think u are playing the wrong game..

 

of course it has. it seems you are palying the wrong class. his stun is by far not as good as a sorcs stunn as it is channeld but it interrupts, closes the time gap for your jump cd or kick cd. consider the cd a sage has for his stunns/mazes.

[MacOda]

I think you're a bad player if you're a sentinel losing to a sorc 1v1. Read this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=294813

 

and see what the community thinks about sentinels.

 

 

That's pretty interesting. Does that mean there are special 1v1 warzones or 1v1 Ilum instances in the game?

[Orangerascal]

That's pretty interesting. Does that mean there are special 1v1 warzones or 1v1 Ilum instances in the game?

 

That's an interesting arguement. Where in his post did he say? My maruder and scoundrel lost to two sorcs? ... or mention anything other than a 1v1?

 

Oh wait you're on of those people that don't read posts from the start . Or worse are you saying that a marauder has no role in group pvp?

 

 

Pro-tip: The context was the maruader vs sorc matchup.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal

[MPagano]

Do you know the difference between me and most people that play these games? When I'm getting tromped by a certain class, I roll one. Nothing gives you a better understanding of a class and its strengths/weaknesses like playing it yourself.

 

All you people whining about sage/sorc should play one at 50. I realize that's a tall order, but I think you'd be surprised. Players beat good sorc/sages. Good players.

 

Do sorc/sage have a lot of utility in comparison to some other ACs? Yes. Should other ACs be provided with more utility to give them more tactical options in a fight? Sure. Is the sorc/sage very unbalanced and inherently stronger than every other AC? No way. Too much of that assertion is hinged on the assumption of equavalent gear and player skills. It's a very, very difficult argument to make.

 

I strongly encourage people who are so enraged by this perceived imbalance to roll the class. I'm not saying you won't confirm some of your assumptions, but you WILL be beaten by players. Learn from that.

[Redmarx]

So many bad players.

 

I especially liked the one from the assassin who said the hardest class for him to kill was sorcs. Hilarious.

 

Next we'll hear about marauders who die to sorcs 1v1.

[JuicyFruits]

So many bad players.

 

I especially liked the one from the assassin who said the hardest class for him to kill was sorcs. Hilarious.

 

Next we'll hear about marauders who die to sorcs 1v1.

 

It is true, thats what is most hilarious!

 

It makes me laugh too!

[me_unknown]

Do you know the difference between me and most people that play these games? When I'm getting tromped by a certain class, I roll one. Nothing gives you a better understanding of a class and its strengths/weaknesses like playing it yourself.

 

i don't know how good you manage mouse and keyboard, how fast your reactions are, etc. but i know for sure only by this statement that at least you are intelligent enough for pvp!

 

this makes you already a better pvp player than 90% of ALL PLAYERS!

 

 

alone following this statement you will win most fights no matter what class you are playing, even if your class is indeed underpowered! yes, even then!

 

edit: seeing such a statement makes all this time wasting int this thread satisfying

Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown

[RefugeASSASSIN]

here again you are wrong.

i already explained it in details in my op. so actually if you would have read it this wouldnt be needed:

 

my damage comes from the one spamable spell + the proc to insta cast an heavy hitter.

 

if i have to switch to another cast without any such procs i do at best 20% of the damage considering that EVERY HIT I TAKE sets my castbar back and i do not get that much needed proc!

 

when i eat that interrupt the best thing you can do is NOT to switch to another spell but to run either out of range or break LOS to avoid further damage while you can spam it again, or use a stunn to save some time (which i cannot do every time i am interrupted)

 

if i do not have this and have to switch to a diferent spell withut the chance to do the avove, i am dead!

 

Which is exactly the point, there should be no reason 1v1 that you CANT get away unless you do something stupid. Its a reset button for the entire fight if it doesnt start on your terms.

 

Just to be clear, im not saying this or any class needs a nerf, I just play with and against what they give me and make the best of it. I just think you refuse to look at the big picture compared to other classes.

Edited February 13, 2012 by RefugeASSASSIN

[MacOda]

That's an interesting arguement. Where in his post did he say? My maruder and scoundrel lost to two sorcs? ... or mention anything other than a 1v1?

 

Oh wait you're on of those people that don't read posts from the start . Or worse are you saying that a marauder has no role in group pvp?

 

 

Pro-tip: The context was the maruader vs sorc matchup.

 

It is to point out that 1v1 doesn't really matter at all....regardless of the context.

 

 

Pro-tip: Putting a Pro-Tip at the end of your post makes you really cool.

[Calista_ZK]

So many bad players.

 

I especially liked the one from the assassin who said the hardest class for him to kill was sorcs. Hilarious.

 

Next we'll hear about marauders who die to sorcs 1v1.

 

Agreed, having a shadow as my alt, sage as my main, Imfao.

 

Even if we talk pre level 50, an assassin has plenty of tools to harass a sorc. At level 50, you shouldn't be having problems with them...

[me_unknown]

Which is exactly the point, there should be no reason 1v1 that you CANT get away unless you do something stupid. Its a reset button for the entire fight if it doesnt start on your terms.

 

still wrong. even if i sometimes manage to reset it like you say i have a long cd on such things. nothing hinders the opponent to follow me. what do you think that in the short time i managed to heal up to 100%? lol

 

and also, what hinders my opponent to do the same? he can also break line of sight when i am at distance, fearing he comes to me but isntead he runs out of range (not that this is usually needed but sometimes its exactly what i do as sentinel when i killed my first opponent and then jumps another on me).

 

 

keep on topic. you are starting to mix in class independed game mechanics. sure some classes are better at one thing and worse at others. range classes will always have an advantage when using enviroment, and?

 

do you want to unify them all to a single class?

[me_unknown]

It is to point out that 1v1 doesn't really matter at all....regardless of the context.

 

actually i think 1on1 should matter the most. you have various possiblities to optimize and balance group pvp. you should always try to balance one on one as much as possible, though it will never be possible to make this perfect. but it should be a main line!

 

and to be honest: as i very pvp dedicated player i am always looking for 1on1. there is not much fun for playing pugs. it is fun when you use real teams to have a nice strategic match, but it is also fun for me to have a 1on1 or 2on2.

 

i really miss the wow arenas

 

p.s. i had high ranked arena paladin before they got buffed oh how much people was loughing at me when i started arena. no one wanted to team up with a dmg pala.

 

and then i got flames claiming i somehow cheated my arena sword.

 

oh and i was the only mage on my server able to beat shames in 1on1 at the time where even the phrase "mage duels shami" made kiddis cry for lough. i changed that mind by duelling most of the shamis on my server

 

people are often so blind and ingoring what they have at disposition.

Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown