me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Maybe I missed it. Can't find interrupt on my Commando's power lists. good to know. i can't talk much about commandos. i know to less abut them. sometimes i see one which kills me 8s sometimes i see one that seems to not do any damage at all. i won't judge your class neither this or that way because warzone experiences are not enogugh to know why i lose or win a fight again your class, if it is underpowered or not. when i get bored of sage i will continue playing my little commando to get a better insight of this class. this game is to new to judge. and it seems that all people claiming sage being overpwoered never played one in situations facing same geared and skilled opponents. Edited February 13, 2012 by me_unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlexGlabra Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) you don't die because the sorcerers are overpowered you die because your team is playing stupid. what stops your team from hunting and interrupting the sorcerers? you describe the very biggest problem: most players are letting sorcerers and any kind of range dd shooting from distance without stopping them. jump to them, grab them chase them and none of them will do much damage anymore! i observed it nearly every game: NO ONE IS DOING THIS! MOST PLAYERS ARE HORRIBLE! So, on my Vanguard Tank, when I'm guarding the ball carrier or attempting to harass/slow/kill the enemy one, I should abandon this and jump across the battlefield because a ranged DPS is pew pewing me down? You have to prioritize your targets and sometimes that means ignoring a DPS for the sake of winning the match. Even that aside, I'd have to say that more matches are lost because people ignore healers and focus their attention on DPS/Tanks instead. My latest alt is a Scoundrel Sawbones and I have to laugh at how often I can just stand by and spam heals on a tank while multiple opponents try to DPS him down and completely ignore me. Edited February 13, 2012 by IlexGlabra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevesNET Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Maybe I missed it. Can't find interrupt on my Commando's power lists. Been looking for that skill on my Mercenary since closed beta, still can't find it! We're the only 2 who can't take down a healing class 1v1 because we have no way of interrupting their healing in a viable way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piriste Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hybrid spec has to go. it just has to. Or it doesnt HAVE to if the sorcs and sages want to play the game alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangnz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Few classes have an interrupt that works outside of 10 meters. In a 1v1 situation there is SFA most melee can do vs a sorc/sage with the knock backs, bubbles, stuns, roots and snares. Often they will be pre bubbled and pop another one on midway through the fight. Vs Ranged classes if you start loosing the fight 180degree force sprint out of there, nothing to stop you, Sniper/slingers and bh/commandos have nothing to stop you, infact due to you having a 30 meter interrupt you actually screw these classes over. Sorcs/Sages have too many tools, too much control too much utility they need to loose something, dunno what but something needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Santa Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 He makes great points, that interrupts are key to beating sorc/sages depending on their skill tree setup. Although with my hybrid's skill-tree setup, i'll rarely have inductions, but this guide is a great start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 So, on my Vanguard Tank, when I'm guarding the ball carrier or attempting to harass/slow/kill the enemy one, I should abandon this and jump across the battlefield because a ranged DPS is pew pewing me down? You have to prioritize your targets and sometimes that means ignoring a DPS for the sake of winning the match. man, if you just want to flame than at least make it more simplier. it saves you and me time. of course NOT! it is team game no one can't do everything at the same time. one is guarding the carrier the other is knocking off the dds, etc. Even that aside, I'd have to say that more matches are lost because people ignore healers and focus their attention on DPS/Tanks instead. My latest alt is a Scoundrel Sawbones and I have to laugh at how often I can just stand by and spam heals on a tank while multiple opponents try to DPS him down and completely ignore me. well, quite true though must say in most matches i barerly see anyone healing. it is most times me being on the top 3 with heals as a dd because i prefer to heal an ally instead of doing damage on an opponent while watching my ally dying. i think it is better to slowly kill one and remain 2 in the team instead fast kill one and remain 1 afterwards. though your observation is confirming what i say: most people are horrible! don't judge by the masses. this never was a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polimeris Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) "Ignore everything around you and focus permanently on one dps player without making any mistake while playing the right class with the right tools, and you may get a chance at a fair fight if I don't get support from my allies." This is not a valid defense of your class, me think. But I not know. Me not good at thinking. Edited February 13, 2012 by Polimeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Few classes have an interrupt that works outside of 10 meters. In a 1v1 situation there is SFA most melee can do vs a sorc/sage with the knock backs, bubbles, stuns, roots and snares. Often they will be pre bubbled and pop another one on midway through the fight. Vs Ranged classes if you start loosing the fight 180degree force sprint out of there, nothing to stop you, Sniper/slingers and bh/commandos have nothing to stop you, infact due to you having a 30 meter interrupt you actually screw these classes over. Sorcs/Sages have too many tools, too much control too much utility they need to loose something, dunno what but something needs to be done. melees do not need an interrupt with such a distance. it wuold make them too strong against range dds! sorcs / sages have not too mayn tools. they have exactly enough to make up for their low single target pvp dps and their squishiness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 4/10m Interrupts are just awesome against a class that is fighting from 30m away and have a massive amounts of slows, knockbacks, stuns, etc. 1 interrupt every 6-12s is so awesome on a target that can just swap what it's doing for 4s without too much of an issue because its so versatile. Yes, clearly melee's interrupts are the solution to beating Sorcerors/Sages (now, that isn't to say we shouldn't be using them whenever we are close enough to but presenting it as a catch-all solution is very naive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 "Ignore everything around you and focus permanently on one dps player without making any mistake while playing the right class with the right tools, and you may get a chance at a fair fight if I don't get support from my allies." This is not a valid defense of your class, me think. But I not know. Me not good at thinking. you are polemic: it is valid bacause such an opponent must also use everything and not make any mistake. if i fail at kiting, avoiding damage i get destroyed in seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraegore Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 When you have to write a guide to prevent your class from getting nerfed then you know its overpowered. There was 10 "How to beat an operative" threads not long ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 4/10m Interrupts are just awesome against a class that is fighting from 30m away and have a massive amounts of slows, knockbacks, stuns, etc. 1 interrupt every 6-12s is so awesome on a target that can just swap what it's doing for 4s without too much of an issue because its so versatile. Yes, clearly melee's interrupts are the solution to beating Sorcerors/Sages (now, that isn't to say we shouldn't be using them whenever we are close enough to but presenting it as a catch-all solution is very naive.) well funny. when playing sentinel i have no problems killing sorcs. you know you can reduce your interrupt to 6secs? you know you can slow your target? you know you have a chaneld stunn? and you know (in case of watchman) that your dots are ticking even being out of range? no, sentinel is not overpowered. but you have your tools, learn to use them! guardians have theirs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimbo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) second: i am talking only about dd sages/sorcs and not about heal specced sages! i have only a view or even no insight about the class mechanic of the other classes than i mentioned above. Well I think that as long as you do not have a clue about other classes, you should not post about your class game play and bring arguments of how it is now OP. You cannot do this for a simple reason: given the shier amount of CC that your class has, how can you correctly judge if the opponent class can counter you? I can agree that sorcs are not insanely OP, but they have the upper hand in most of the fights, if played correctly that is, and they should be balanced ... not by a large amount, but start in small steps and see how each change affects the class and it's game play. Edited February 13, 2012 by UncleJimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 i repeat: i do not deny that there are imbalances. but it is not a single class being overpowered. i do not know all the classes and many of them need fixes and maybe some buffs. but it is redicules to call a class overpwoered that very most of the players do not understand even a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevesNET Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The nerf hammer is soon to drop, guides like these will be followed by much QQ in the very near future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) People can whine about the sages and sorcs all they want. Bioware gets the metrics. They've been getting the metrics since beta and they will continue to be getting the metrics. Any pvp guild worth a damn, will tell you that sorcs are not the problem when you hit bm level. BM warfronts (the point where the game is being balanced for) shows all the classes performing reasonably well. When rated wz's come out, we'll see what comps do well. Then people can have proper metrics to whine about. I'm telling you now though, our 2 sentinel, vanguard, sage group is ridiculously good Edited February 13, 2012 by Orangerascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Sorcerors need to be nerfed into the ground. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well I think that as long as you do not have a clue about other classes, you should not post about your class game play and bring arguments of how it is now OP. You cannot do this for a simple reason: given the shier amount of CC that your class has, how can you correctly judge if the opponent class can counter you? I can agree that sorcs are not insanely OP, but they have the upper hand in most of the fights, if played correctly that is, and they should be balanced ... not by a large amount, but start in small steps and see how each change affects the class and it's game play. you have a valid point. but do not forget that my title was mainly to catch your attention. actually i already said that i cannot jusdge many of the other classes. like the most people cannot really judge the sage. but consider that half of the utilites are not affecting range classes (or are at least very ineffective) and the stuns i have have a long cd and are making the target pretty fast immune to further stunns. also even classes without a locking interrupt at least have a knockback or a stunn. but my main intention was to point out that there is much that most people do not know and it they are to fast judging. do not understand my post as an intention to claim the sorcerer/sage being underpowered. this class is it definitely not! it is a very well designed class. also consider that many classes suffer from bugs, skills not working as intended which causes an imbalances which actually is a bug. ofcourse this does not make it better for the players but it is something to be expected to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You cant teach a blind man to see. But sure il bite. Ok you focus on your interupt. The whole argument of your thread is that interupting is your counter: The average interupt is a 4sec lock with a 12 Cooldown. Unless your a commando, then people can laugh at you. I break your spell. This gives you a lock for 2-3 GCDs after that you are free to use 5-6 GCDs without worrying about interupts. What do you do in the meantime? Here is some abilities you can use to gain the advantage and laugh at people interupting you. - Sprint - Knockback - Shield this means you should be doing the following when you get interupted. Interupted > Knockback > Shield > Sprint > Continue to dps as you would without fear of interuption for 5-6 GCDs. I fail to see how interupting is a perfect counter to a sage/sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) You can tell bad players in this game. They're the ones who think sorcs are overpowered. Bad pug players, here's the real deal: sorcs are not overpowered. That you even think so means you're one of the bads. In top end PVP, the "overpowered" classes are merc healers, powertechs and marauders. Edited February 13, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 You cant teach a blind man to see. But sure il bite. Ok you focus on your interupt. The whole argument of your thread is that interupting is your counter: The average interupt is a 4sec lock with a 12 Cooldown. Unless your a commando, then people can laugh at you. I break your spell. This gives you a lock for 2-3 GCDs after that you are free to use 5-6 GCDs without worrying about interupts. What do you do in the meantime? Here is some abilities you can use to gain the advantage and laugh at people interupting you. - Sprint - Knockback - Shield this means you should be doing the following when you get interupted. Interupted > Knockback > Shield > Sprint > Continue to dps as you would without fear of interuption for 5-6 GCDs. I fail to see how interupting is a perfect counter to a sage/sorc. you know that there are alos other spells/skills interrupting without a lockdown though? and beside of this, we can go into an infinite loop of one teling what to do, the other how to counter etc. what do you want? a reliable way to beat sorcs /sages? in this case this calss would be destroyed. it must remain a game of to skilled players strategically adopting to the other. and i do not want to do this fighting game with words in a forum. it is pointless. you demonstraded already enough that you do not know wḿuch about this class and even less abut pvp. you are spreading worng informations about various skilsl and possiblities this class has. please stop this. i know you won't understand it but at least stop spamming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me_unknown Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 You can tell bad players in this game. They're the ones who think sorcs are overpowered. Bad pug players, here's the real deal: sorcs are not overpowered. That you even think so means you're one of the bads. In top end PVP, the "overpowered" classes are merc healers, powertechs and marauders. it sounds harsh but it is actually the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Dont worry, they all want it nerfed so it can be free kill for any other class. It wont happen Sorc/Sage have enough counters as it is. And no, class aint getting nerfed because bunch of bad players cant beat it. L2P. In that case every class has to be nerfed lol And no, class aint getting nerfed because "there are a lot of them" Edited February 13, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 you know that there are alos other spells/skills interrupting without a lockdown though? and beside of this, we can go into an infinite loop of one teling what to do, the other how to counter etc. what do you want? a reliable way to beat sorcs /sages? in this case this calss would be destroyed. it must remain a game of to skilled players strategically adopting to the other. and i do not want to do this fighting game with words in a forum. it is pointless. you demonstraded already enough that you do not know wḿuch about this class and even less abut pvp. you are spreading worng informations about various skilsl and possiblities this class has. please stop this. i know you won't understand it but at least stop spamming Can you please start using objectivity. You loose all your credibility when your counterargument always contain some form of sentence telling me that I do not know how to play my class or that I sux or that I dont have enough knoledge in this game. Can we please stop this now? Objectivity is the keyword for any kind of analysis if you want it to be taken seriously. GLHF in the real world if your counterargument is always going to be "if you dont understand my point of view, then you are just bad at what you are doing". Now finally to the point: The problem with the sage/sorc is that it has too much stuff compared to other classes. The core of the class itself is much stronger than any other class in game. If you compare the consular to the smuggler most people will laugh at the smuggler. Simply remove some of all the utility or give other classes more utility should balance it out. Also adding root effects to the resolve problem and remove the ability to gain 100% Snare effects should also balance out the problem. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28science%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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