MMO Vets, What do you think?

[djpostman]

Why not just say you want SWG2?

 

yes please

[finetop]

Nice post Lyphe. I too am rooting for BW and hope this game turns around in the right direction.

[luciomarx]

what else do the Vets think? QUOTE]

 

Answering the original poster's question about thoughts on the game:

 

I recently unsubbed for me and my wife. We are paid to April, but it is unlikely we'll log in again as neither of us has any motivation or desire to do so. That being said, here are some capsule thoughts on the game:

 

Levelling 1-50

 

Some of the best execution of this in a game that I've experienced. Small bugs and lag aside, it was so much fun that I would recommend the game to somebody even if it is just to play up to 50 and then turn it off. Great job and solid foundation.

 

PVP

 

This is a personal opinion and not a critique of the game per se, but I really dislike the PVP in Tor. I found it virtually non-existent until you hit 50 and go to Illum. Even then, the zones are designed for minimal overlap so that it appears that the game is designed to allow you to avoid PvP for the most part unless you go to a designated zone. The Warzones feel awkward and very cramped. The play by play and instruction voice-overs drove me crazy. And more than anything, the combat and character responsiveness still feels very 'off', even after all the changes. Some probably love it. But for me, I guess I'm just too used to what I have experienced in Wow which always felt very natural and like it flowed.

 

One you are 50

 

This was the game breaker for me. 3-4 weeks into level 50 I had gathered all the daily commendation gear I needed ... geared up to full epics at mostly a cologni/rakatta level ... maxed professions ... finished all the datacrons ... and had cleared all the raids and done a portion on heroic. Problem is, I realized that I had nothing of consequence to work on or toward in the game. I had biochem as my crafting profession as you'd be crazy not to have it for pvp or pve - but this also removed any need to farm or replenish supplies as I simply had an inexhaustible supply of reuseable stims, medpacs, and adrenals. The space combat was fun at first, but you only go to see the same movie so many times before it gets old. And with nothing of consequence to save space badges for ... well, you get it. Finally, there are no logs or meters available. For me, this is a whole extra dimension to the game that can provide endless opportunity to tinker with my toon as I look for the most optimal rotation, opening, gear, stats, etc. Without this, it felt like I was at a baseball game that wasn't bothering to keep score since they just wanted the kids to have fun and enjoy the scenery. That's cool while you are levelling, but at some point the people who take their gaming seriously want to know how they stack up and want to begin figuring out how to move up the ladder. Tor has no means for seeing how you stack up ... no meters, no logs, no published achieves, and no armory. There is more, but this is the gist of it for me.

 

Bottom line

 

A very decent game that will appeal to many people, but for me ( and most of my guildies who delved in with me but have also been fading ), I lost interest a few weeks after dinging 50. Great levelling ... not a fan of pvp ... very thin @ 50.

 

Just my two cents. Wishing everyone the best that is still enjoying and I'm still rooting for you BW. Cheers.

 

this pretty much summarizes it for me =/. Had the best experience EVER leveling (so much that I am leveling alts lol).

[Klatzy]

I'd played WoW for 5 years, some raiding mixed with pvp.

 

In short, the Pros for the game are:

 

Engaging class quests

Fun setting (who doesn't like aliens, lightsabers, and Force powers, although I've played a smuggler primarily)

Generally good polish on the voiceovers and story

PVP and flashpoints are pretty fun (for the most part)

Useful and often funny companions

You can really begin to feel your character's personality

 

Cons:

Needless travel restrictions: i.e. I want a shuttle to go my ship, and the ability to call taxis with my strangely underused holocall thingy

 

Cluttered and muddied class design For smuggler there's headshot, cheapshot, and something else that basically do the same thing. Talents that aren't that innovative or fun that clog up the trees.

 

Too much CC in pvp, there's really needs to be a better Resolve/other method to deal with chain-ccs.

 

Too static of environments.

 

Leveling is too fast. Once you get past about 20 or so, you can quickly outlevel the quests on a planet. This takes away a lot of the tension while leveling. And ultimately leaves you standing on the end of the treadmill wondering if there's anything else to do too quickly.

[lrage]

The leveling is horrid. It's repetitive. It's easy. There are ZERO awesome experiences while leveling. There are no awesome dungeons with phat lewtz you just can't skip and break yourself on. There's zero diversion.

 

It's quest after quest and almost no quest feels epic. The game never teases you with what come next. Once you leave a planet you're gone except to have a stupid trip back just to run your tired legs off for nothing a few times during your class quest.

 

There is zero in this game along the lines of Unrest, Deadmines, Beflallen, RFK, Najena, SM, Guk, Sunken Temple, Sol A, Scholo, Sol B, BRD...... NOTHING.

 

It totally gives a great leveling experience in that you never have to think, decide, or wonder what to do now. It totally misses creating anything close to a virtual world or a sense of adventure or accomplishment.

 

If you love RPG's it's well for the money to buy it and play for a month or two. But it's not even in the realm of an EQ or WoW or several other games that at least attempted to create a world for us to play in.

[Draksen]

I think it has a solid foundation but they missed a ton of things.

 

inb4 some ******* asks me How many MMO's have I designed.

 

Yes, but adding LFG-tools, a better AH, new WZ, ... can be "easily" done. And I'm sure they'll do it. It's in their interest.

Though if another mmo wants to voicing/full voicing, it's nearly impossible.

 

The core of TOR is perfect, the pve-leveling part. They only miss these "modern mmo tools", and I'm sure we'll have them quite soon. And once we'll have them, we'll have the best mmo of the market - if it's not already the case.

 

Haters will gate.

Lovers will love

[Heretiq]

Playing alone together, in other words.

 

It's basically what WoW's system has perfected. I think it does very much meet the needs of most of the players, because most players just want a quick in and out gaming experience in the limited time they have to play (vast majority of players have very limited play time). So the model of playing alone together is popular -- you are playing multiplayer, but in a very casual, easy-in/easy-out way. The vast majority of players do not want to take the time to socialize in a video game -- the people who were into that in the early MMOs were a self-selecting niche of people who had generally quite a bit of time on their hands and/or were virtual world enthusiasts. Most players today are just looking for a bit of fun and entertainment in a limited time frame in the evenings -- not to socialize or do a virtual world or anything of the sort. This is how it is today, because this is the market today. And so the games are set up (at least the successful ones are) to satisfy the needs of this market. It makes sense.

 

I ... don't know what to say really.

 

Truer words have never ever been spoken.

[Sirwoodrow]

Giving all MMO's current conditions its the best, BUT it is still a complete letdown. There is no reason u should be able to 7man a Hard Mode Ops group when ur guild has cleared norm once..... thats unheard of in end game raiding. Complete endgame letdown, and this is wat keeps people in games. Garbage PVP(its geten better). Memory leak runs the hell out of my 6gig RAM system. Lacking simple features aka a damage meter for theorycrafting. Lacking challenging end game(this blew my mind) Is EVERY new MMO gonna do this.(Casusls need to L2P or **** this **** is to easy. guild had 7 wow VETS and we smashed this cakesauce garbage into the ground. TTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOO easy try again next time cptn. I wasnt planning on goin back to WoW for MOP but its looking better and better every day. Edited February 15, 2012 by Sirwoodrow

[Kalfear]

Are you done yet? Again - Wiki clearly states that UO,EQ,AC - are considered the "Founding 3" starting in 1997. You seem to want to tie this whole other 2D graphics based games with 1st person 3D MMORPG's. Sorry - Wiki doesn't agree with you, the gaming industry doesn't agree with you, I don't agree with you, and consumers don't agree with you.

 

Where does that leave you? In your own 21 year old MMORPG world.

 

You can say all you want about reading up on revised history. I played them. I know a solo game like WoW, SWTOR, Aion, LotRO, Warhammer, EQII, DAoC, RIFT.

 

These are all single player games with a cooperative option. Please explain to me what is Massive Multi -Player about 16 man Operations? It is the same garbage that has been re-skinned under a different name.

 

Please take your alternative history lessons about MMORPG's to a place where people like to read other ficticous reports like - The truth about the JFK asassination, Area 51 and Roswell, and AIDS being an American Biological weapon aimed at drug users and homosexuals. Your theories hold just about as much credibility.

 

ROFL, so you flat out ignore people who played before you and tell you flat out these games existed and wer enot muds and then claim im alternate history?

 

Let me guess, according to you the Ford Model T car was not really a car because you were not alive or driving at the time!

 

The Wright brothers didnt invent the Airplane because you were not alive and didnt see it happen.

 

JFK assassination??? WTH are you talking about???

 

I dont care what some fan created WIKI says, Its FAN CREATED, its not fact, its based on most popular opinion. Surely you know this? I hope you know this!

 

There is a reason Wiki is not used in legal documents buddy

 

Look what I found, anouther Wiki on NWN AOL ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_Gold ) and the OPENING LINE STATES....

 

Neverwinter Nights

 

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

(Redirected from Neverwinter Nights Gold)

 

 

 

 

"NWN" redirects here. For other uses, see NWN (disambiguation).

 

This article is about the 2002 BioWare game. For the 1991 AOL MMORPG, see Neverwinter Nights (AOL game). For the Neverwinter Nights series as a whole, see Neverwinter Nights (series).

 

So since you quoteing Wiki as die hard fact, then this also is die hard fact right?

Cant have it both ways

Either Wiki is with out fail and correct all the time or Wiki is fan created and nothing more then popular opinion thats mostly right but misses key specifics.

 

here is THE REALMS

 

http://www.realmserver.com/

 

Opening line of their page says

 

The first & longest established classic graphical massively-multiplayer MMORPG fantasy adventure game. The Realm is the ideal place for role playing adventures, quests, and online chat rooms.

 

Fact is they are not the first but they are the current longest running as Original NWN shut down in '97 where as The Realms never did!

 

Here is the Wiki for Dark Sun Online - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun_Online

 

Its opening line reads

 

Dark Sun Online: Crimson Sands is an early massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) that was developed and published by Strategic Simulations, Inc. in 1996 for Windows 95. Dark Sun Online is based on the licensed Dark Sun campaign setting for the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons tabletop role-playing game. Dark Sun Online was one of the first fully graphical MMORPGs.

 

So please, tell me again about my revisionist history?

 

Just because you never played them doesnt mean they didnt exist and were not first

 

Just because your first 3 games were UO, EQ, AC, doesnt mean they created the genre or were EVER called the big 3.

 

Big 3 games are now

 

UO - first to break the 1000 online per server number

EQ - Defined modern Day MMORPGs (using previous concepts from NWN, The Realms, DSO, Meridian 59) and brought them to a new level utilizing the new age technology available

WOW - Grand master at MMORPG marketing bringing commercial success and acknowledgement never before seen in the MMORPG genre.

 

And for the record, anyone that knows me knows Im not a fan of UO and I HATE HATE HATE WOW, so for me to say this means its not my personal agenda at play, its simply the truth of the matter.

 

But hey, feel free to prove my links and facts and time line false as you claim I am doing revisionist history, the different independant pages are doing revisionist history, the players that played these games doing revisionist history, the copyrights and release dates doing revisionist history.

 

Everyone and their dog is wrong and you are right!

 

That about sum it up?

[Phishums]

Lol, yet another thread that turned into "WoW ruined TOR". Because Blizzard developed this game too. Wait, no...

 

WoW is successful because it caters to the majority, i.e. those dreadful casual players that just have to go and ruin everything for the elite gamers of the world. That's how it got so huge. Of course subsequent MMOs are going to follow that model; WoW proved that it works. The tricky part about MMOs seems to be making the 'casuals' and the 'hardcores' equally happy, and it doesn't seem to have been figured out yet.

 

As I'm admittedly part of the hated casual crowd, I'm usually pretty happy with easier questing rather than ultra-hardmodes where you have to carefully plan every move or you die. I also don't care if there are endgame dungeons/raids that are hard enough that I don't get to complete them while they're current. "Seeing the content" is something I can do when the next xpac comes out and I've outleveled the old raids. So I can solo it now, big whoop. It still looks cool. (Soloing MC makes me feel like a bada**, although I'm sure that running it with 39 other people was insanely awesome.)

 

I can see why Blizzard created the dumbed-down LFR version of raiding. Despite constant gripes about how unfair the loot system is (after all the "I just want to see current content!" whining, gimme a break), it's extremely popular. I've used it, and it was cool to experience being part of a raid, however uncoordinated and sometimes idiotic the whole thing was. The seeming issue with TOR's raiding is that the dumbed-down version is the *only* version. (I don't have a 50 myself; I'm going off forum QQ, along with what my husband and his friend have said. "It's just to frigging easy.")

 

I'm all for an easier mode for those who don't want to feel like a game is a second job, but there ought to be things for the hardcore folk to brag about too. I don't know how many times I've read the "I pay my $15 just like they do, so we should ALL get to do the same things in the game!" threads. While that's true, it's also true for most things that you reap what you sow, you're rewarded for effort, you get out what you put in. (Yeah yeah, game =/= RL. Bite me.) I pay my $15/mo, but since I don't have tons of time to play, I don't expect to reach the end-all be-all of the current patch or expansion. Why should I, if I barely play? Of course the guys who can put in five hours a day are going to have better gear and see the hardmode raids. That's how things work.

 

...I really didn't intend to type several paragraphs on that, and I totally got off-topic. On-topic, I'm not really much of an MMO vet, having only played WoW for a few years; I think TOR is currently inferior (as it should be, having just been released) and we'll have to see how things go. Questing is too repetitive and linear, and endgame sounds easy and disappointing, and relies too much on RNG rather than effort for PvP gear.

[Sliverspark]

First impressions were good.

 

Now, after a month of playing I spacebar through every quest, save for story ones that I have not yet seen. (I actually knew that would get old because it did in the first 2 ME games, as well as Dragon Age).

 

Quite honestly, there has been too much emphasis on story, and not enough emphasis on other game systems.

 

This game needs some serious updates and innovation, otherwise it will not last it's first year, plain and simple.

[starmanmmo]

We can thank WoW for that. No, really...

 

No, we can thank EQ1 for being too frakin' hard. No, really...

[FrostXian]

Alright, as an "MMO Vet", here is how I see things.

 

The game is dying, it'll be dead soon. And by dead, I do not mean servers shut down and the game forgotten, or a complete commercial failure. I mean having about the same playerbase Rift or Aion ended up with, which are both going free to play soon, funny enough.

 

Bioware has handled things in a very amateur manner, something I would not expect from them, but this seems to be a trend for them, lately.

 

Hopefully ME3 will not disappoint.

 

Anyway, I think I might even return to WoW soon, just to go back to the familiar planet and freedom it brings, until GW3 comes around.

 

Not so sure about Tera.

 

And please, do not bother attacking me or replying to this, I'll not be checking again. I just came around the forums to see what people think about the game recently.

 

Peace out.

[Amdarius]

I think SWTOR made a fun game I've played a lot and will play for only a little bit more.

But they failed to create a "world" which to me is step 1 of an MMO.

 

I still maintain that if they'd had done just 1 planet and made it less on rails and had done an appearance tab instead of orange loot (which totally ruined the new loot feel since my oranges are always better then the gear I get and I just keep upgrading them), then this game would have been a legit monster with years of staying power.

 

Instead it's loot system doesn't give me the highs of "OMGZ I got the Sword of Omens!!!", the game is so linear it isn't funny, and you basically never see anyone doing anything different then you or inspiring you to want to hit the higher levels or get the better loot.

 

^^Totally agree re: the appearance tab and the orange gear. Having to find a cyber and artificer every 2-4 levels just to upgrade the mods/enhancements in my orange gear leaves the game VERY boring in terms of upgrading equipment. Nothing I loot or get from a quest will be better than my gear. EVER. Until I start PVP'ing and get the champion/centurion/battlemaster gear. So I don't even bother looking at anything I loot anymore until I try to decide whether it has sufficient stats to bother putting on the GTN hoping somebody out there still uses (and buys) regular gear.

[Amdarius]

No, we can thank EQ1 for being too frakin' hard. No, really...

 

EQ1 was not too hard. It was challenging. What's the point of completing a game that isn't a challenge (see SWTOR)?? SWTOR is basically a play-through movie, which is fine if that's what you want..

 

EQ1 is still the best MMORPG ever made, IMHO. UO is right up there as well, and would probably be my fave if it was 3D. I miss MMOs that were challenging.

[oakamp]

EQ1 was not too hard. It was challenging. What's the point of completing a game that isn't a challenge (see SWTOR)?? SWTOR is basically a play-through movie, which is fine if that's what you want..

 

EQ1 is still the best MMORPG ever made, IMHO. UO is right up there as well, and would probably be my fave if it was 3D. I miss MMOs that were challenging.

 

most ppl dont like that hard, and complete wrong PAC design model,

that's why EQ1,2 fail in this century.

but EQ1 has its moment, just like UO, MUD has.

[Deewe]

Originally Posted by Dreossk

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle - Each Planet has its own Cycle, So that would be nearly impossible. Not really as planets don't have to have synchronized cycles

- No swimming - Doesnt need it

Maybe but it be nice for exploring say underground rivers, caves filled of water

- No housing - Games been out for 2 months

SWG had it at launch, in 2004.

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc..., Thats cool, Was it ever promised?

Not really but isn't it supposed to be Kotor III-IV-V-VI...?

- Dumbed down character creation, You wear a helm 95% of the time

I don't, do you? And I got rid of it on my companions too

- No post-creation character customization, Games been out for 2 months

SWG?

- No appearance tab/outfit system, Does that really bother you?

Yes a lot, my characters wear a red skirt, a green chest that doesn't fit by the colors nor the textures nor even the design and it's not better on my companions either

- No high res textures, Textures are above 2k

And? We have better textures in Rift, LotRo and even Wow with an engine running much smoother.

- Simple combat with static enemies, Try doing raids

Sadly most of the combat occurs out of RAIDS.

- Unconvincing and stiff animations, Show me better

Wow, Rift, AoC

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around, So you can do what? Right click them to do nothing?

Can't click most of them, crtitters are lacking or static, most non aggressive NPC doesn't have any AI either

- No collision detection, Collision is BAD in MMo's

Not really it's bad because the clusters CPU time is allocated to other things. Provided the right coding and enough CPU power it would be great. Ie: collision detection is great in DDO as you have positional combat. I can block a door with a shield!

- No crafting customization, LOL WRONG

Wrong? Could you explain how so?

- No ship decoration, Game is 2 months old

SWG had housing (space ship) decoration @launch with item positioning.

- Removal of many races, How is it a removal, When it was never in?

Right, still it's disappointing. At least in Wow you can play a cow or in SWG a Wookiee

- No faction change/neutrality, Game has been out for 2 months

Whatever. They're already adding same player vs same player PvP so screwing even more the core design of separated and opposed factions

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction, WRONG WRONG WRONG

Please bring your Jedi on my Empire planets... no? Right you can't.

- No RP tools, Cry more?

RP tools are what keeps many players long term and makes your MMO world feels more alive. It also helps building a community.

Some comments above

Edited February 15, 2012 by Deewe

[Gungan]

I am not an alt-aholic. I like to stick to one character, but there's not enough people or useful tools in the game to get a proper group together for anything at level 50 so I'm bored out of my mind, and looking for a new game to play. Edited February 15, 2012 by Gungan

[Blavatsky]

...yea, who invited and incubated said casuals? What game? No, really...

 

WoW was always easy , and always meant for casuals. There never was a hardcore WoW.

 

It was, is and will always be a simplified version of what MMO should be.

I always thought of WoW as kids game.

 

fun one no doubt.

 

But a kids game.

[CupieFoxtail]

WoW was always easy , and always meant for casuals. There never was a hardcore WoW.

 

It was, is and will always be a simplified version of what MMO should be.

I always thought of WoW as kids game.

 

fun one no doubt.

 

But a kids game.

 

Did you kill Yogg no lights before 3.2? No?

Then you're in no position to deem it universally easy

Edited February 15, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[finetop]

EQ1 was not too hard. It was challenging.

 

I didn't stick around for the latest of the EQ1 expansions, but I really have no idea what you are talking about. This is crazy talk man. At lvl 30 in EQ you lose about 3 hours of play time in exp or something similar everytime you die. You know what this means? The average casual player will never make it past 30 because they lose more exp from dying than they do from fighting...

[Blavatsky]

Did you kill Yogg no lights before 3.2? No?

Then you're in no position to deem it universally easy

 

Yes I killed Yogg and so did many others on my server , dont remember the acheivements but most were silly , artificial restrictions you impose upon yourself to make the encounter seem harder.

 

WoW was designed as a simplified , and EASY version of then existing MMOs.

 

The player by default has the advantage over the evironment.

 

It is by its very design meant to be easy.

[Riulassher]

WAR was in better shape at this point of its lifetime. The PVE content was about the same, pvp...well...the game launched with what, 18 warzones and don't get me started about RvR lakes and castle/fortress sieges...

 

For all its ill reputation, with all its bugs, OP classes and idiotic decisions, it was far better than any other MMO released in last few years... and it still failed.

 

SWTOR will either fail (and faster than WAR), or it will be deemed "too big to fail", and they will pump enough money to make it "successful" for casuals.

[Lethality]

WoW was always easy , and always meant for casuals. There never was a hardcore WoW.

 

It was, is and will always be a simplified version of what MMO should be.

I always thought of WoW as kids game.

 

fun one no doubt.

 

But a kids game.

 

You couldn't compete, so you stayed out of it. Simple as that.

 

Gamers and game developers alike (including those at BioWare) will tell you WoW is a masterfully crafted, best-of-breed game that pushed the the genre and industry forward, and in fact made games like TOR possible.

[starmanmmo]

EQ1 was not too hard. It was challenging. What's the point of completing a game that isn't a challenge (see SWTOR)?? SWTOR is basically a play-through movie, which is fine if that's what you want..

 

EQ1 is still the best MMORPG ever made, IMHO. UO is right up there as well, and would probably be my fave if it was 3D. I miss MMOs that were challenging.

 

It took a week or more to get ONE level. There was a lack of real questing, and it was mostly grinding. Couple that with 72-man raids and very little voice chat, it was more than "challenging".