MMO Vets, What do you think?

[origional]

No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really

 

Nothing wrong with that. MMO's should be casual. You have to be pretty sad to play a game 'hardcore'. Its should be a fun aspect of your life, not, your life.

[finetop]

Come on. We all know BW spent 299 on marketing, .9 million on actors while the other .1 million was spent on gameplay. With these features the cost would go to .2 million

 

Fixed.

[Kalfear]

I agree so much (not all and not completely) with Mids post Im going to disec and expand on it as it hits allot of topics correctly!

 

The leveling phase of SWTOR is really well done and I enjoy it so much, that I am leveling my second toon to 50 now.

 

Besides that there are many things that are lacking.

 

So true

 

The ONLY issues I have with the leveling is its insanely fast, stupidly so. You expect this leveling speed in a single player RPG, not a MMORPG.

 

Its also to easy.

Though reading these forums and listening to feedback in game its pretty appearent that new players to the genre (last 7 years = newbs) have massive trouble adapting to a increased challenge because of the game they started in setting the bar so insanely low.

 

As the TO posted the world lacks NPCs and the "Legoland look" of cities in addition delivers a picture of vast but empty places. This somehwat kills the atmosphere. On later worlds like Corellia you indeed get a touch of the "unfinished" status of this game. On Corellia are vast areas with nothing to do, not even a datacron to get.

 

unless there is mobs to hunt there, Im not a big fan of open unused space in MMORPGs.

 

 

I remember passing a group of NPC imperial soldiers on Tatooine and overhearing a speech of their commanding offcer who defends the potable water rationing to have enough water for his personal showers. Damned that was cool. at later levels this feature totally vanished.

 

yup, game needs ALLOT MORE of this stuff

 

Really, even though NPCs dont have quests for you, they should still say something unique to make them unique.

 

Right now Space filler NPCs are exactly that, space fillers.

 

Id really like to see NPCs moving about, talking to each other, replying to you when you initiate a conversation.

 

Cosmetic is IMPORTANT in MMORPGs.

 

 

The most crucial thing I detected is the UI, crafting system and class balance.

 

UI: The thing is, this UI is just frustrating. You can't open your crafting menu besides the market menu to check known crafting recipes (because known recipes aren't greyed out in the market list...). Interruption by crafting success of your companions and shutting down current menus. For some classes the central skill bar has too less slots. I was about to kill my keyboard as I watched, that I couldn't switch stances in PvP with my Jug as I outsourced the stances to the right skill bar and the three up the top were overlapped by the PvP Battleground UI...

 

Sorry to say this, but an uncomfortable UI is a no go, even for a new released game...it's just an UI, no damned rocket science...

 

yeah we disagree here, UI is fine for me. I have zero issue navigating or working it and utilizing its features!

 

Everything doesnt need to be 1 click available.

 

Honestly Ive stopped reading the UI complaints as they just seem so minor and petty to me. MUCH more important and bigger issues in game then the UI. Fact that Bioware changing UI before adding Swoop Racing and Paazaak will probably cost them my account to be honest. Priorities are required and UI is so far down that list IMO.

 

 

Crafting: I like the "crafting-by-companions-in-the-background-system". I like the option to upgrade recipes by reconstruction. What I don't like are the insane credit costs for seriously crafting and the actual outcome you have from it and that reconstructing and gaining new upgraded recipes is pretty luck based. Why to the hell do someone want heavy armor mixed with defence and attackpower or crit stats?

 

Im actually a big fan of the crafting system but like everything its not fully developed.

 

I think the node in the world take away from the game honestly.

I like the salvaging droids and getting med parts from animals and do like Crystal farming as thats so KotOR feeling.

 

But beyond that id love to see the other nodes removed from the world and crafting being done by sending companions out on missions.

 

HOWEVER, they need quality of item like DAoC had, they need wear and tear on items like DAoC had with diminishing quality when repaired when making items so its not all the same! I guess they kinda have it with augments slot but they should have gone a step futher in it.

 

And they need, like leveling, to slow it down so you dont power through 200 points in a sitting or what ever, stretch it out so everyone not doing all the crafts. I have 6 characters who doing all but syncweaving because I can. The gains so fast and furious that I have had not reason at all to buy a single thingle thing on the gtn. Not once. A single players should never think they can do all the crafts, it should feel far to overwelming a undertaking.

 

This game, be it leveling, crafting, PVP valor, it all suffers the same problem, its to fast and easy to max out. Which brings us back to the single player design. In a MMORPG you design a game for the players to rely on each other, support each other, interact with each other. Right now you simply dont need to do that.

 

 

Class balance: I wanted to play a Sith Juggernaut as a tank. The Immortal Tree still baffles me. Besides the arduous playing to get and keep aggro especially on several mobs, I am jealously watching Power Techs and Assassins not only for their threat generation (and the easiness to do it) but for their dps as a tank too. Not that damage is a fundamental feature in this game needed for several enrage and timed encounters, no not at all.

 

I know that class balance isn't easy to address in a MMO, but I really hoped, that MMO evolution is somewhat advanced now, that at least a somewhat solid PvE balance is existent from the start (I really thought, that such things like shamans with willpower set gear in MC are things of the past...as a really harsh and unfair comparison). To adress such things there are Betas and indeed the threat/dps problem with juggernauts was reported, several times. Why is it still in the game?

 

Honestly this game needs more classes with more defined roles OR less classes with player created roles.

 

Im still baffled as why the follow up of KotOR games doesnt use the KotOR leveling style where you have a list of skills and costs (based on advancement and base class...IE counslers get healing cheaper then a Khight would but a knight can spend the extra points to also get healing if they want. For a consular healing would cost 1,2,3,4,5 points...for a knight the same healing would cost 2,4,6,8,10 points but tank abilities would come cheaper to the knight then the consular.)

 

It was such the perfect system to create our characters and just needed to be advanced and expanded to fit a MMORPG setting. Still have levels and all that, but you choose your core class and build your character as you see fit.

 

as for beta, yeah lots was reported and not acted on.

 

 

If we are on that, please could anybody explain me why the talent for endurance improvement is that far in the vengeance tree, so a immortal Jug can't pick it? just an example.

 

This I dont mind honestly

In DAoC, the combat was never as good as when we had limited stamina so had to think and plan our styles. Once everyone got endless stamina, it was just button mashing styles mindlessly and really negatively hurt the game.

 

Limited endurance, willpower, heat doesnt bother me.

 

 

The game has really cool features and ideas brought to the table but the actual implemention lacks, the whole things feel somewhat unfinished.

 

Agree

 

 

I am not one of the people who think "that was it BW, good bye", I think you should give them time to adress this, but you shouldn't give them a year, because someone who is willing to release a game with some serious flaws to have his pick from the Xmas business, has to bear the consequences too...and someone who developes an MMO "working cloud like" with the help of dozens of subfirms all over the world (to decrease costs, especially labor costs in the country of the corporate headquarter) shouldn't be so astonished that things can indeed go wrong (especially if indian programmers think a deadline is just a suggestion :-).

 

agree, I have given them 7 months myself

I bought the 6 month subscription and you add on free montha nd thats 7 months

 

And I dont even need it all fixed, I just need to feel they understand the issues

 

Right now I do not feel as though they do

 

Right now I feel as Bioware is sitting in their offices scratching their heads not understanding where it all went wrong and are lost on how to fix it.

 

I do hope that changes in next 5 months time.

[Chewpaco]

This was awesome. Real adventure. Real Mystery. Real Questing. Real Exploration. Real Community.

 

Let's raise a million bucks or so and write one.

 

I have a 20 page template designed - which makes it about half complete.

 

When I finish it (If ever, it's been 2 years since I started, and I have deleted, re written parts so many times because of flaws I have found myself) , I will search for someone to listen. There are 3 studios close to where I live in Chicago that I will approach first. But getting your game made is harder than getting a book published - because of all the costs involved. I will finish it and show it to people so at least I can say I finished it - but I don't expect anything to come of it.

[Darth_Grissom]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

- No day/night cycle ((Never noticed this))

- No swimming ((FFXI and Ultima Online didnt have this))

- No housing ((Our ships are our homes))

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... ((Never played an mmo that had stuff like this, dont need))

- Dumbed down character creation ((Seems just as good as all the other mmo's i have played.))

- No post-creation character customization ((Dark side corruption))

- No appearance tab/outfit system ((We need one and I want one as well))

- No high res textures ((Never noticed this until it was show, if no one had shown me it, I would have never known and I still dont care about it ))

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) (((((Meh, i have better things to do then open doors and sit in chairs)))))

- Simple combat with static enemies ((Every MMORPG has mobs that stand or walk in a small circle, this isnt just SWTOR's fault))

- Unconvincing and stiff animations ((I like my IA's animation))

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around ((Again every MMORPG has this, it isnt just SWTOR))

- No collision detection ((wth is this))

- No stats on resources ((Whats this))

- No crafting customization ((Crafting does need a buff))

- Restriction in choice of starship ((While I agree, this isnt a sandbox, ALL theme parks restrict their players as much as possuble))

- No ship decoration ((Again, not a sandbox. Theme parks restrict their playerbase as much as possible. Wow doesnt even have ANYWHERE to call home, be glad we even do))

- Dumbed down space combat ((I think its lame. I want Eve online type space combat mm yeah))

- No multiplayer space combat ((See above lol))

- Removal of many races ((Why would you want to remove any races, they all fit with SWTOR))

- No faction change/neutrality ((I think jedis should have the ability to go empire and sith to go repub. I think the restriction on being not being able to defect to the other side is one thing I HATED about wow. All of my horde toons HATED the allliance AND the horde yet could my toon be neautral and stay out of it? No becaise Activi$$$$$$ion Blizzard said no, lame))

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction ((I think this is lame and needs to be changed. ))

- Less planets than announced ((I do see a need for more, but I dont think thye should be added yet))

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back ((Datacrons are the reason to go back))

- No GM events ((That died with Ultima Online. Those awesome days will never come back, sorry))

- Removal of choice to kill companion ((I really want to kill my ship droid, I REALLY do))

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times ((Another stupid move. There is no reason why all of us cant talk to one another. Empire humans can speak the same language as the repub humens but........they cant?? ***?))

- No RP tools (Until a whole server such as in UO all rped at once and NO ONE spoke OOC unless they typed OOC before their statement, then there is no reason to rp IMHO. RP like that died with Ultima Online. People care more about PHAT LOOTS ZOMG BBQ Gear then they do about actually being your character and being someone else for a while))

- Nothing to do post-story ((End game content is there.))

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet ((Same as waiting in ORG, SW in wow, Jeuno in FFXI, Brit Bank in Ultima Online. This will always be the way its played))

[Chewpaco]

Nothing wrong with that. MMO's should be casual. You have to be pretty sad to play a game 'hardcore'. Its should be a fun aspect of your life, not, your life.

 

There is nothing wrong with what you said, other than taking a shot at people that like longevity in a game, and challenges, and puzzles within them.

 

The problem is - the market is littered with watered down, commercialized, instant gratification, 1-50 in one week, press I win button, for epic loot games.

 

Do we really need another one?

 

How about this: 1 developer makes a game that is hard, tedious, non-solo friendly, themepark/sandbox mix that all the "Old School" gamers will flock to and stick with, because it reminds us of when MMO's were great in the past.

 

The people that want to buy 3 titles a year in search of something great can continue to do that.

 

Fair enough?

[finetop]

The problem is - the market is littered with watered down, commercialized, instant gratification, 1-50 in one week, press I win button, for epic loot games.

 

Do we really need another one?

 

Lets suppose we have two players. One of them is more casual and logs 5 hours a week over 3 months totaling 2 days play time and another plays 4 hours a day for 3 months totaling to 15 days. What % improvement of the gear do you think the 2nd player should get?

 

Personally I don't think this number should ever exceed a 5-10% difference. Otherwise the idiots grind monkeys will literally win every match unless they are clearly worse players.

[Kalfear]

I will be happy to enlighten you, even though this wasn't addressed to me.

 

1. Progression after level 10 - all soloable. Old MMO's required cooperation at every turn, for optimal success. Soloing was last resort, and considered the slowest method of progression.

 

True but forced grouping was also a failure. I been around since day 1 and hate forced grouping!

 

But grouping should be encouraged and thus, while solo play should be doable, it should not grant the best rewards and should require more dedication at a slower pace so your left making the choice. Do I solo for half the xp or lfg for double the xp?

 

MMORPGs should be all about PROMOTING (not forcing but promoteing) interaction and socialization.

 

Other wise its just a single player RPG with a subscription fee!

 

2. "Quests" in newer MMO's require no thought. They aren't puzzles. There is no discovery. They are merely - click on the dude with the triangle over his head, and complete his TASK for him. Old MMO's - required trial and error. No indication that an NPC was a quest - giver. You hailed an NPC, then you would have to follow up with questions, like /s what bandits, or what infestation? In order to get more from the NPC. Then, he wouldn't even tell you exactly what needed to be done. He may say something like bring me proof of your efforts. That may be a linen sash, or a orc skull. Trial and error.

 

So true, I hate that there is not reason to interact with NPCs because you just goto one with triangle over head!

 

You should have to talk and find the quests.

 

What I do not mind is area radius markers. Your target is in this area. I do not miss the days of having no clue where in world my quest objective is. That was beyond annoying. But I also dislike just going from one triangle to the next!

 

Its not grinding or a time sink to look around and explore a area looking for your objective. Todays new players (last 7 years to now) seem to think it is but its really not. So many complain of no exploration well this is part of promoting exploration.

 

 

3. Gear was earned. The only way to get upgrades in gear was through grouping, crafting, or buying something in the market that a higher level player looted and sold. Very rare would you loot something from something that you killed that was good for your level.

 

yup, I completely in favor of all rewards and above average and higher drops being BOP.

Earn what you get.

Plus if you had to earn it, the items would have more meaning to those that have it rather then how meaningless everything has become.

 

 

4. Epic encounters / Raids - 8 and 16 people. Come on, do I need to say more? There is nothing epic about that. 8 - 16 people used to cooperate in separate groups to break spwan camps maybe, for an exp group. But as the largest scale encounter with end game gear? What a joke. Raids of 40, 54, 72 - 100 : That is a raid. Large scale cooperation - with no vent, OMG!!

 

Love the no vent idea but other whise, sorry your speaking Raids and large group raids are where it all started to fall apart, even before WOW came out. They promote elitism and seperation and really online bullying (as silly as that sounds) and offer up nothing positive or helpful to the genre.

 

I like what DAoC did (before TOA). Killing the Dragon was just 100 players togather, no grouping, no special loot rules (beyond everyone rolls). Rift Public groups work well as well as long as they can not be locked out to exclude players (as the raiders started to do in RIFT as I was leaving).

 

I much prefer the 6-8 man groups. 4 is a bit to small for my liking to be honest.

 

Raids offer nothing positive. But yeah, epic is epic and is still doable with 6-8 person groups (or 4 people + 4 companions).

 

And yes, vent is the debil for MMORPGs. Nothing promotes selfish closed in play excluding others and eliminating Socialization and interaction as Vent (and other chat programs) does.

 

 

5. Servers have no community responsibility, or accountability. The constant bantering / arguing in open trade chats would have never taken place in an Old School MMO. Your reputation was everything for desired success. Ninja looters? Never got a 2nd group. People that like to belittle others - never got a 2nd group. Cross - server LFG's and soloability takes every reason to be civil out of theses games. Why be nice to a stranger, when you never need anyone else for success?

 

So true

So True

 

 

5a. Multi - guild cooperation existed when it came to opposing factions. Organized raid schedules between guilds - secure entrances to the highest zones, with the best gear. Fight the opposing faction for the RIGHT to obtain that gear. Instanced raids/dungeons at every turn that have no PvP implications = snoozefest. Why even have opposing factions on a server? The fights are of 0 signifigance other than E-Peen bragging rights on a forum.

 

So true, I still look fondly to my days as a guild leader joining a albion Realm society of guilds coming togather to protect and defend our realm. Not formal alliances, not stupid elitist loot rules, just guidls coming togather for a common purpose.

 

Thats so completely lost on modern gamers that came to genre in last 7 years.

 

And its a real shame.

A real shame.

 

 

What else do you want to know?

 

Fact is - the poster that you tried to belittle, is exactly right. True MMOers are becoming extinct, because we are being force - fed this garbage that is truly a single player game, with a small scale cooperative option, and being labled as an mmo so they can make some money.

 

Completely agree.

 

TOR, while fun is not a MMORPG. Its a multioplayer game and each little guild sits in its private little chat room ignoreing everyone not in it.

 

THATS NOT MMORPGs intention from original design.

 

Im still waiting for that developer that tries to make a great game rather then tries to make a great profit margin!

 

When someone focuses on making a great game the right way, word will get out and the money will come in. till then we get all these shallow offerings.

 

Said it before and say it again, if the hardest of hard core players can max out any sooner then the 8 week period, you have failed to create a MMORPG. That time frame is for single player games, MMORPG are bigger picture, bigger leveling curve, bigger socialization, BIGGER SCOPE!

[Bevop]

I have played MMORPGs for 12 years (DAoC, WoW, Tabula Rasa... terrible, Warhammer online, this game), and this is what I think of SWtoR.

 

First off, as someone mentioned earlier, no day/night cycle? C'mon, this is the perect MMO to use that function. Each planet could have different day/night cycles, giving it more life. This is a big must in my opinion if you want the game to seem less fake.

 

Also, the PvP system could be more balanced than 75% huttball and then 25% every other warzone if you allow cross-server warzones. Another improvement might be that the Illum world PvP area be instanced as a special Warzone that starts every couple of hours. This special instance will have the same objectives as the current Ilum PvP area. The whole idea of the special instance is everyone gathers up to fight at the same time, go out and not just grind in front of the Republic base.

 

Overall though, I think this game has a lot of potential if Bioware plays their cards right.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Bevop

[Lostpenguins]

My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this:

 

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

Seriously, is there any MMO you like? I'm guessing "no"... or you'd still be playing it... because you can (and YOU probably have) make just as long of a list for the juggernaut known as WoW or the "MMO's used to be cool" EQ or UO.

[Mitheril]

All these topics that always ends up being about what the best mmo is makes me think of Highlander by now. "There can be only one."

[kuromeru]

SWTOR is fantastic. I'm loving every second of it.

[Chewpaco]

Lets suppose we have two players. One of them is more casual and logs 5 hours a week over 3 months totaling 2 days play time and another plays 4 hours a day for 3 months totaling to 15 days. What % improvement of the gear do you think the 2nd player should get?

 

Personally I don't think this number should ever exceed a 5-10% difference. Otherwise the idiots grind monkeys will literally win every match unless they are clearly worse players.

 

Let's suppose 2 Kids decide to start playing basketball over the summer. 1 kid plays 1 hour a day, 5 days a week. The other kid plays 4 hours a day, 5 days a week.

 

3 months later they decide to play 1v1. Who do you think should win? Do you think the kid that put 1 hour a day into practice, should only be behind 5-10% in skill set, when the other kid practiced his skills 4x as hard?

 

Grind monkeys - yadda yadda yadda.

 

Please name one skill in life - that practice doesn't make you better at.

 

None of this is really the point - The point of the quote that you responded too is simple. It is about choices, and what is currently available in the market place.

 

The current market place has 7 games that in some form or another, all exactly alike. You can solo to max level with ease. LFG Q systems that make getting a group conveinent and easy. Themepark - linear progression quest hubs that a 5 year old can navigate. End - game gear attainable by any Joe Schmo that wants to play 1 hour a night, 3 days a week, in an 8-16 person 2 hour cake walk.

 

Do we need another version of that game? I can go play WoW, RIFT, Aion, Warhammer, Lotro, SWTOR. Using the new Holy Trinity model of Tank, Heal, DPS - can you please explain to me how any game is different? Sure - there are different window dressings. Different ways to craft. Different Warzones. Companion systems. Legacy Points. Dual Spec. What they all share: They are all mind-blowing easy to solo level 1-50 in record time in. Then, when people get to max level - they are bored. Because there is nothing to solo anymore. Anything that is worth getting requires a group to get.

 

All some of us are asking for is a game that has some longevity in its objectives. Some difficulty in travelling from one area to the next because you may get destroyed by travelling alone. A game that REQUIRES YOU to interact with other players responsibly in order to succeed - at every level, not just end game raiding. A game that isn't laid out like a "Connect the Dots" picture and you travel from beginning to end in a linear fashion.

 

Play the games that you like to play - I don't care. Personally I would prefer something that I could invest myself in LONG TERM. I don't care if it takes me 3 days to go from level 29 to level 30. I have all the time in the world. I want something with depth. Flag / Key progression system. Farming one zone with my guild so I can gear up to get to the next. Not a 3 week project, but a 3 month project. This is how long lasting relationships and friendships in an online gaming enviroment are built. Through persistance, perseverance, and trial and error as a community. Not from spamming General Chat " LF1M 16 man HM - Need Healer!"

 

I beg for a game to be developed that is worthy of being called an MMORPG again.

[neocoma]

We can thank WoW for that. No, really...

 

Play an asia grinder then, hows that? I like it easy and leveling isnt even easy enough for my taste. Yeah I'm serious, takes too long.

[Chewpaco]

Play an asia grinder then, hows that? I like it easy and leveling isnt even easy enough for my taste. Yeah I'm serious, takes too long.

 

I would if 95% of them weren't item mall games.

[gurugeorge]

I have a 20 page template designed - which makes it about half complete.

 

When I finish it (If ever, it's been 2 years since I started, and I have deleted, re written parts so many times because of flaws I have found myself) , I will search for someone to listen. There are 3 studios close to where I live in Chicago that I will approach first. But getting your game made is harder than getting a book published - because of all the costs involved. I will finish it and show it to people so at least I can say I finished it - but I don't expect anything to come of it.

 

LOL, I don't mean to discourage you, but you do realize that nearly every kid who's every played an MMO thinks they can make an MMO, and on some of the leading game programming boards they are sick to death of tyros coming onto the forums with their great ideas about how to make a better MMO than people who have been in the business for years.

 

There are many, many, many more factors at work in making these things than you think, and they all have to be skillfully juggled (both in terms of programming and management).

 

In actual fact, any MMO that ever gets to live is almost a miracle, it's insanely hard to make them, and you would require at least a couple of proper genius-level intellects on any MMO team.

[Graburr]

What they all share: They are all mind-blowing easy to solo level 1-50 in record time in. Then, when people get to max level - they are bored. Because there is nothing to solo anymore. Anything that is worth getting requires a group to get.

 

you can farm raid T1 solo in rift. just sayin'

[wifeaggro]

you can farm raid T1 solo in rift. just sayin'

 

you cannot those are not raids its that dumb chronicle thing or what ever. It is not T1 raid.

[Graburr]

than people who have been in the business for years.

 

In actual fact, any MMO that ever gets to live is almost a miracle, it's insanely hard to make them, and you would require at least a couple of proper genius-level intellects on any MMO team.

 

yet at the same time I see design decisions like it's their first MMO. and things change, either you adapt or you don't - especially in video games.

 

also, all MMO's require is an insane amount of money. the basic formula is always the same (gl finding an investor willing to give you money for that AAA mmo that is NOT like eq/wow). sure, you need people to crunch the numbers and make it work, but besides that... it's not like it's about innovation.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Graburr

[Graburr]

you cannot those are not raids its that dumb chronicle thing or what ever. It is not T1 raid.

 

check the planar conquerer's set. thanks.

 

(was introduced in 1.6. so it might not be your fault if you don't want to keep up with the changes. doesn't make it less true tho).

 

EDIT: they revamped it in 1.7

- Intro 50 content: level 50 Dungeons, Chronicles, Rifts, and Zone Events.

- "Tier 1": Expert Dungeons, Ember Isle, early Prestige Ranks, Expert Rifts, and Zone Events.

- "Tier 2": Master Dungeons, entry Raids and Slivers, mid-Prestige Ranks, Raid Rifts, and Zone Events.

- "Tier 3": Difficult Raids and Slivers, high-end Prestige Ranks.

 

important part is Zone Events, which gives you currency to trade in for gear (as do dailies btw).

Edited February 14, 2012 by Graburr

[knightblaster]

Personally I would prefer something that I could invest myself in LONG TERM. I don't care if it takes me 3 days to go from level 29 to level 30. I have all the time in the world. I want something with depth. Flag / Key progression system. Farming one zone with my guild so I can gear up to get to the next. Not a 3 week project, but a 3 month project. This is how long lasting relationships and friendships in an online gaming enviroment are built. Through persistance, perseverance, and trial and error as a community. Not from spamming General Chat " LF1M 16 man HM - Need Healer!"

 

I beg for a game to be developed that is worthy of being called an MMORPG again.

 

That era in gaming is finished. Gaming is now mainstream. MMOs are very expensive to make (much more than when the first ones were made), and publishers and other investors are not going to finance a proper MMO which has a small audience as its target. The era of the "hard", time-consuming MMO is finished. It's possible that an indie developer may take a stab at something like that (already happened with Darkfall, Mortal Online, both of which suffered from what you see when you don't have AAA budget investment), but no AAA budget MMO is going to be made again which is geared towards the smallish hardcore audience.

[Arrys]

My biggest knock is the game is too easy and forgiving. Gear is gained too easily. Content is cleared too easily. This leads to the complaints you see from some about having nothing to do at 50. I also think that a MMO based on people having to roll alts is not a great long term strat for a sub based MMO.

 

That said, I understand that BW is positioning the game to be just that. The easiest, most accessible MMO on the market. Some 'MMO vets' may not take to that well and may not stick with this game.

 

I heard the exact same complaints from the powerlevellers in every MMO I've ever played. They reach the end of content and go hey, what do I do now....

 

The fact is this is a game made by a publically traded company at large investment they had to create an easy grind(Appeal to the broadest possible market). They had to leave lots of room for exciting expansions. Pumping quarterly returns news and creating forward looking growth options...

 

MMO's haven't simply changed because of the playerbase, the playerbase being sought is dictated by the companies developing the big ticket games and the realities they must manage to.

[grueber]

I heard the exact same complaints from the powerlevellers in every MMO I've ever played. They reach the end of content and go hey, what do I do now....

 

The fact is this is a game made by a publically traded company at large investment they had to create an easy grind(Appeal to the broadest possible market). They had to leave lots of room for exciting expansions. Pumping quarterly returns news and creating forward looking growth options...

 

MMO's haven't simply changed because of the playerbase, the playerbase being sought is dictated by the companies developing the big ticket games and the realities they must manage to.

 

Yeah that's what Nintendo aimed for with the Wii. That's doing really well I've heard.

 

Casual gamers are a very fickle lot with a short attention span.

[DarthOvertone]

MMO Vets, What do you think?

 

This is a really good PvE leveling game for casual players.

Edited February 14, 2012 by DarthOvertone

[XFrOzEnX]

no offense but im at work can I get a TL'DR version lol?