Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Heretiq]

That would be such a shame considering no one's actually said anything new in the last 100 pages of this thread + the other countless threads on the subject. I guess will get to rehash the same points in another 100+ page thread where no one listens to anyone else.

 

It's as funny and tragic at the same time as it is true.

[Umbral]

The majority of the anti-cross server rants are from RPers who are afraid they'll get kicked from groups when their server names are seen. They're just masking that fear with these made up scenarios and such. Too bad the Bioware design group can't wake up and smell the coffee here.

[darkcerb]

Thats the theory. Too bad theory and practice are miles apart.

 

Opening a low pop server to a larger pool of players is not theory.

 

not even sure how you can think it is.

[Heretiq]

Thats the theory. Too bad theory and practice are miles apart.

 

It worked out pretty well in World of Warcraft. So no - it's not just a theory. It worked there and it will work here as well.

[souloferdrick]

This is just not true.

 

Its real easy to say, isnt it?

[Amiracle]

People are skipping content now. As in cancelling their subscriptions because of the pain getting a group is.

 

A cross-server LFG tool will actually allow players to see more content, because people will be able to que while questing, gathering, etc etc.

 

 

Please show me all the people cancelling.

[ispanolfw]

This is just not true.

 

Actually it is at least partially true. The less people interacting, the less of a community you have. A tool, like WoW's as an example, allows you to bypass that community and just click a few buttons and go kill some trash/bosses with people you in all likelihood will never see again.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do that either. I'm saying that what you replied to is at least partially correct.

[terminova]

The majority of the anti-cross server rants are from RPers who are afraid they'll get kicked from groups when their server names are seen. They're just masking that fear with these made up scenarios and such. Too bad the Bioware design group can't wake up and smell the coffee here.

 

I like your style, coming in making wild claims without any proof.....

 

 

Too bad it's all fluff.

[darkcerb]

Please show me all the people cancelling.

 

Here, I have a better way of forming his words:

 

People are already skipping content because they can't find blasted groups for it, even HM flash points on high pop servers are agony to find a group for.

[Uruare]

See that's the thing, they haven't said cross server is coming for a fact, only that it's being considered. If they put it in, fine, if they don't, fine. I'm just sick of people thinking their opinion is the correct one and that opposing it, especially because it's optional and the Devs are going to do it "anyways". My problem isn't with when it comes, if at all. My problem is with fanatics(Yes fanatics, because religious groups do this too) that push away any opinion contrary to theirs because they're "miniscule" or "you're the minority"

 

 

There's not a lot of good reason for them to not make it cross server, is there?

 

From even a very broad take on their point of view, I can't think of one single reason why they wouldn't make cross server tools for PVE and PVP alike, if only to address low pop server issues as well as faction imbalances in one fell swoop.

 

Could more elegant and -better- solutions happen? Oh, I have no doubt. Cheaper and easier ones?

 

Frankly, even doing nothing isn't going to be cheaper in the long haul.

 

Me, I'm sick and tired of this debate. It's the same old song and dance over and over again, and if -anybody- REALLY CARED to change the outcome that's elsewise batting 100% on the Foregone Conclusion charts, they'd bust their humps to come up with something better and get some support behind it.

 

Instead, it's the same old fisticuffs.

 

Someone have a better idea than a cross-server LFG tool? Detail it out, post it, get some support behind it.

 

Otherwise, welcome to the future, where what we get will almost certainly be the cheapest and easiest to implement and maintain solution Bioware can drum up.

 

It'll probably look a lot like WoW's.

[Kaelshi]

Neither side can say with certainty that more people want it or don't.

 

However it is probably a fair assumption that the various companies who run Rift, WoW, and SWTOR get more positive than negative feedback on LFG tools.

 

I can't provide any evidence other than that mmo companies continue to implement these tools and attempt to improve upon them. If they were abject failures they would likely phase them out and future mmo's would not implement them.

 

As for the arguments. The reason they likely get more positive feedback is simple: LFD tools allow access to content to a larger number of people.

 

If you are arguing AGAINST LFD tools you are arguing that certain groups of people should not have access to content unless they play the amount of time and the way you do.

 

I rarely joined server-created groups because much of the time I end up having something come up irl and not being able to finish the run seems a bit unfair to other people - quite frankly it is much easier and less of a dick-move to leave a LFG group because the group can quite simply queue back up and add another player. Server-side groups can not, they go back to spamming channels LFG for blah except they are already in the dungeon and it's not always as simple as just going back to wherver and spamming.

 

Many of the people who despise LFG are those who dont NEED it to do content and have a superiority complex about their gear score. THey hate the idea that a casual player like myself can now get gear scores close to their own even though I don't spend 90% of my day online and have other responsibilities i attend to irl.

[Amiracle]

Here, I have a better way of forming his words:

 

People are already skipping content because they can't find blasted groups for it, even HM flash points on high pop servers are agony to find a group for.

 

Maybe because people are in guilds and doing those within the guild?

 

Of course not.........that wouldn't fit your world view.

 

Maybe because people are buying orange gear and mods and jumping right into raiding?

 

Of course not.....that wouldn't fit your world view.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Amiracle

[terminova]

People are skipping content now. As in cancelling their subscriptions because of the pain getting a group is.

 

A cross-server LFG tool will actually allow players to see more content, because people will be able to que while questing, gathering, etc etc.

 

Actually, it won't. They'll get to see the same amount of content with a LFG tool they could without one. The only time they'd get to see content they normally wouldn't would be if the LFG tool also worked for Ops.

[souloferdrick]

It worked out pretty well in World of Warcraft. So no - it's not just a theory. It worked there and it will work here as well.

 

Well, hey, it worked in a game designed for the wal mart masses, why not, eh? Can't beat em, join em, yadda yadda. Sounds wonderful, cant wait.

[ispanolfw]

There's not a lot of good reason for them to not make it cross server, is there?

 

From even a very broad take on their point of view, I can't think of one single reason why they wouldn't make cross server tools for PVE and PVP alike, if only to address low pop server issues as well as faction imbalances in one fell swoop.

 

Could more elegant and -better- solutions happen? Oh, I have no doubt. Cheaper and easier ones?

 

Frankly, even doing nothing isn't going to be cheaper in the long haul.

 

Me, I'm sick and tired of this debate. It's the same old song and dance over and over again, and if -anybody- REALLY CARED to change the outcome that's elsewise batting 100% on the Foregone Conclusion charts, they'd bust their humps to come up with something better and get some support behind it.

 

Instead, it's the same old fisticuffs.

 

Someone have a better idea than a cross-server LFG tool? Detail it out, post it, get some support behind it.

 

Otherwise, welcome to the future, where what we get will almost certainly be the cheapest and easiest to implement and maintain solution Bioware can drum up.

 

It'll probably look a lot like WoW's.

 

Here we go. Here's a thought i've held nearly my entire life. Most people are intelligent enough to recognize when something will cause a problem. Even though all these people are intelligent, not all of them are suited to coming up with something to replace it. which is why we defer to people who ARE good at it. But not being able to come up with something better does not invalidate our ability to see a problem in something.

 

And sorry, a "future" where enjoyment is, what I see as simplified, is a future that takes away my enjoyment. You may or may not care about my enjoyment, that's fine. But it exemplifies the point that it will hurt people in some way. And in the end, that's the thing, I can't make you enjoy things the way I do, nor can you do the opposite to me. We can't alter that ourselves even, what we like, we like, it just works that way. But when one sides way of enjoying things slowly takes over all the games I like, what do I have left?

[Heretiq]

Well, hey, it worked in a game designed for the wal mart masses, why not, eh? Can't beat em, join em, yadda yadda. Sounds wonderful, cant wait.

 

Yawn.

 

So what was your point again?

Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq

[darkcerb]

Well, hey, it worked in a game designed for the wal mart masses, why not, eh? Can't beat em, join em, yadda yadda. Sounds wonderful, cant wait.

 

I'm sorry but do you genuinely believe that swtor is what? harder?

 

It's structured the exact same way, hard modes for the challenge seekers and everything else for the rest.

[xlegendtragiik]

I wish they had a LFD tool in the game as well. My friends don't play MMO's that are p2p per month, but generally stay towards games like league of legends. I would enjoy just grouping up with some randies to get some quick levels, and enjoy the actual flashpoints in the game. I've only been able to do one flashpoint which was level 10 and i was 17, and i only went back to it for the light side points.

[Sliverspark]

The problem isn't the existence or absence of an upgrade LFG tool. The problem is THE COMMUNITY.

 

When you have a game where you can pretty much solo through all the way to level 50; and continue soloing from there (I know plenty of un-guilded people that run end-game content) what is the point of finding a group, EVER?

 

There isn't one. Heroic quests for example; most everyone I know skips them now because it's a complete waste of time. No one wants to look for a group for 30 minutes. Plain and simple, it's a community issue, and also partially the developer's doing as well.

 

The state of the game right now, with little to no bug fixes, this thing isn't made to last a year.

[ispanolfw]

Neither side can say with certainty that more people want it or don't.

 

However it is probably a fair assumption that the various companies who run Rift, WoW, and SWTOR get more positive than negative feedback on LFG tools.

 

I can't provide any evidence other than that mmo companies continue to implement these tools and attempt to improve upon them. If they were abject failures they would likely phase them out and future mmo's would not implement them.

 

As for the arguments. The reason they likely get more positive feedback is simple: LFD tools allow access to content to a larger number of people.

 

If you are arguing AGAINST LFD tools you are arguing that certain groups of people should not have access to content unless they play the amount of time and the way you do.

 

I rarely joined server-created groups because much of the time I end up having something come up irl and not being able to finish the run seems a bit unfair to other people - quite frankly it is much easier and less of a dick-move to leave a LFG group because the group can quite simply queue back up and add another player. Server-side groups can not, they go back to spamming channels LFG for blah except they are already in the dungeon and it's not always as simple as just going back to wherver and spamming.

 

Many of the people who despise LFG are those who dont NEED it to do content and have a superiority complex about their gear score. THey hate the idea that a casual player like myself can now get gear scores close to their own even though I don't spend 90% of my day online and have other responsibilities i attend to irl.

 

Good thing you said many. Me, I don't care either way.... I've said this like 10 times, because I can see it helping some, but hurting others. Same can be said if it doesn't come, people who don't like whispering/shouting/whatever for groups, coupled with others who want it "quick like a bunny!" (yay for Mad Moxxi!), and people who have RL commitments that tend to interfere are going to have issues getting groups.

 

I see it both ways, neither side is right. Neither side should be telling the other side to suck it up and deal with it in any form. Throw in your reasoning without trying to degrade the other side and leave it at that and you'll likely never hear from me again. Unless I have a view and put my opinion in of course.

[Nijraw]

A server only Flash Point Ques is needed badly.

[souloferdrick]

Yawn.

 

So what was your point again?

 

What? No more super thought provoking evidence from an obvious scholar?

[terminova]

The problem isn't the existence or absence of an upgrade LFG tool. The problem is THE COMMUNITY.

 

When you have a game where you can pretty much solo through all the way to level 50; and continue soloing from there (I know plenty of un-guilded people that run end-game content) what is the point of finding a group, EVER?

 

There isn't one. Heroic quests for example; most everyone I know skips them now because it's a complete waste of time. No one wants to look for a group for 30 minutes. Plain and simple, it's a community issue, and also partially the developer's doing as well.

 

The state of the game right now, with little to no bug fixes, this thing isn't made to last a year.

 

It's not a community issue, it's intended gameplay. The devs give you a choice of whether to do the additional content or not, it's not required and not something you should blame on the community at large.

[ispanolfw]

Uh - the game companies are the ones implementing lfg tools not the players.

 

The simple fact of the matter is you still have a choice.

 

If your guild is running content right now or running with a group of people, as you suggest people are, then why would an lfg tool affect that at all? Thats rhetorical btw.

 

You are suggesting that your guild will what? Stop running content as a guild if an LFG tool is implemented? That says more about your guild than the OPTIONAL tool.

 

Stop stopping at optional and keep going. Yes the game companies are the one to implement it. And right now they aren't, at least for Cross Server. It's there as an option but they've stated they would rather not use it. It's the people that want it that are pushing for it, and to some degree the reason it comes if it does. Because if they weren't pushing for it, there would be no reason to implement it, especially since they said they would rather not.

[Kaelshi]

What? Did you actually read it? We all can notice problems, but I know for a fact I don't have the creativeness or imagination or whatnot to come up with something better. But that doesn't mean I can't point out flaws I see. That's what I said. Not whatever that was that you pulled out of who knows where.

 

EDIT: Don't know if you edited your post or a mod did, so if it was a mod and they want to trim the quote, feel free to.

 

 

I edited it after you acknowledged both sides shouldn't be telling other people what to think.

 

The argument is simple from my point of view - lfg = more content for more people.

 

The people arguing against lfg also try to argue that we should do what they do : Find a guild that runs content.

 

which leads to the most obvious of questions - why would an implementation of an LFG tool stop your guild from running content?

 

It's an option. There is no objective evidence to suggest it "destroys communities" - anyone who lived through Barrens chat realizes how stupid of an argument this is.