Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[PjPablo]

Perhaps because I'm every bit as human as you are and don't want my experience to be ruined while yours "improves".

 

So just out of spite then? That's great. I change my mind. I don't want LFD to ruin this awesome community.

[astrocanis]

So just out of spite then? That's great. I change my mind. I don't want LFD to ruin this awesome community.

 

Is that all you got from my post? If so, we're done. I extended an olive branch and all you can see is "I want it my way and screw you." Ok. You're right then. Better?

 

You act as if the LFG tool is the only possible solution to your problem. It's not. It's just the one you want. And to hell with me. Right?

[EWJunkie]

Wouldn't either free transfers or server merges do just as well?

Eh. Would probably be an improvement, but I just can't imagine trying to build a pick-up group of strangers manually could ever be as fast and easy as letting the computer do it for you.

[PjPablo]

Is that all you got from my post? If so, we're done. I extended an olive branch and all you can see is "I want it my way and screw you." Ok. You're right then. Better?

 

You act as if the LFG tool is the only possible solution to your problem. It's not. It's just the one you want. And to hell with me. Right?

 

Considering its an optional tool that you already said you won't use I don't see how it impacts you at all. Sounds like you just want the game your way and don't want others to have access to a function they will actually use.

[xioix]

I'm curious. Why are you even bothering running flashpoints if you hate interacting with other players so much?

 

I like the gear.

 

Some people play to craft and play the auction house game, some people play PvP to get the highest valor rank or whatever you call it, and some people are like me who like to get the best possible gear.

 

I have already crafted the best possible gear for my BH so the next logical step is to run HM FPs. Then after that the bigger raid content.

 

Also, you have it all wrong. I don't hate interacting with people. I love interacting with people (especially in real life). What I do hate is hate standing in the fleet for hours spamming "LFG xxxxx". I'm in a guild but not everyone wants to run a dungeon especially if they have no need for it. I have a few in-game friends but they're not online 24/7. I tried sending /tells to people but I just got put on their ignore lists. The only option for me and for many others as you have seen in the general fleet chat, is to spam LFG.

Edited February 13, 2012 by xioix

[astrocanis]

I like the gear.

 

Some people play to craft and play the auction house game, some people play PvP to get the highest valor rank or whatever you call it, and some people are like me who like to get the best possible gear.

 

I have already crafted the best possible gear for my BH so the next logical step is to run HM FPs. Then after that the bigger raid content.

 

Also, you have it all wrong. I don't hate interacting with people. I love interacting with people. What I do hate is hate standing in the fleet for hours spamming "LFG xxxxx". I'm in a guild but not everyone wants to run a dungeon especially if they have no need for it. I have a few in-game friends but they're not online 24/7. I tried sending /tells to people but I just got put on their ignore lists. The only option for me and for many others as you have seen in the general fleet chat, is to spam LFG.

 

I won't contradict you. I will say that my experience is not the same. I play Republic, though, so people may be more interested in having groups - we are a lot less jaded, I think.

 

What server are you on? PM me and maybe we can do a few together.

[Fomorii]

...3# We will see more 'thiefs' and people will be bad mannered.

 

Correct, however, we'll have the same issue regardless. There is NOTHING that is currenlty preventing people to already do that and in the month I've played the game I've never once seen someone yell out "don't play with Mr X because...", I've seen a couple of guilds being mentioned, but not the individual players no.

 

People don't automatically turn into 'thiefs' just because they won't see the other players again.

 

If anything you might notice it more because you'll be playing more. At any rate I doubt there's any real evidence suggesting that people become bullies and thiefs just because they won't the other rest of the group again...

 

Human nature isn't that hard to understand. Anonymity relieves people of the need to behave civilly. It's why people act like complete douchebags over the internet. Having a contained server doesn't eliminate this, but it helps to reduce it and gives people a chance to avoid known offenders. Cross-server LFDs always usher in an increase of loot ninjas and people going out of their way to grief others. That's not to say that the rate isn't more noticeable due to the increase of groups you get into, but having a cross server group for the LFD tool to choose from doesn't guarantee an increase in dungeons for any individual. DPS still spend for-bloody-ever waiting for the damn thing to pop. Healers and tanks don't have trouble getting groups regardless of the method they use to get into a dungeon, including using /general.

 

That said: a non-cross server LFD would be nice.

[DarthKhaos]

Also, you have it all wrong. I don't hate interacting with people. I love interacting with people (especially in real life). What I do hate is hate standing in the fleet for hours spamming "LFG xxxxx". I'm in a guild but not everyone wants to run a dungeon especially if they have no need for it. I have a few in-game friends but they're not online 24/7. I tried sending /tells to people but I just got put on their ignore lists. The only option for me and for many others as you have seen in the general fleet chat, is to spam LFG.

So why are you against an alternative method that is neither spamming General/LFG Channel or fully automated cross server LFG System?

[Dharst]

I'm curious. Why are you even bothering running flashpoints if you hate interacting with other players so much?

 

There's a huge difference between interacting with others to accomplish a common goal- and chatting up a storm to get an invite.

 

Your goal seems to be making friendly with one and all; while the single-player is more interested in getting gear and moving on.

 

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT... DON'T USE IT!?

 

How difficult is that. Folks that don't like to PVP... don't join PVP servers... and hopefully soon we won't be forced to PVP unless they choose too. You don't like LFD tools... macros or addons... when they come... don't use them.

 

 

Makes me wonder if you are more afraid of becoming negligible... than any real reason.

[Elyx]

So, you haven't really debunked the arguments; you've just said you disagree with them. Some don't.

 

Personally, I think there's a lot of truth to the argument that LFD systems (at least as implemented in WoW and Rift) do hurt community. Not only do they remove the incentive to socialize by removing the need to have friends in the game for grouping with, but the way groups are slammed together and people are teleported right in front of the first fight removed any need to communicate at all. As a result, people generally don't. Those of us who've played in games with that type of LFD system know that in the majority of cases, you end up with a group that barely says one word to each other. They pop in, grind through their instance, and split up at the end without ever having connected in any way at all.

 

Personally, I think that's where the bad behavior in LFD groups comes from. It's hard to see other players as people in that kind of mostly unsocial setting. Also, the lack of a connection with those people makes it easier to treat them badly.

 

Now, I now a lot of people want a tool that makes finding a group easier. I haven't had any trouble myself, bu I know many have, and that the current LFG system is sorely lacking. However, if/when it gets upgraded or replaced, I'd hope that something is learned from the systems in other games, and I really think it's possible to build something better. In my opinion, just not having the teleport functionality would go a long way toward doing that. It'd give people a reason to talk before they start fighting. It may just be a simple "On my way, be there in two minutes," but at least it'd be something. That may be all it takes to make people in your group seem like actual people, and not just voiceless bots that seem more like NPCs than humans.

 

^^ This in spades.

 

Your myth debunking is really argument reversal. your simply trying to eliminate our ability to argue by calling our arguments "myths" before we can even counter-debate. Sorry Friend, but not only will it not work, but your explanations don't' even hold water.

 

I speak from a long history of MMO's without LFD tools (including vanilla/bc wow to compare it to current wow...DaOC, LotRO, Pre-LFD rift, Aion, to name a few), and While I agree that I never liked having to put a group together pre-LFD, the attitudes I found in groups post-LFD were far worse. And this isn't a grass is greener thing either. I played MMO's without LFD tools (LotRO, pre-LFD rift) while i played wow with an LFD back to back. LFD simply gives you access to more chances at an instance run at the cost of community and communication.

 

I got together with a group of guys to do a low level run the other day for social points (a fantasic idea and way to get people of different levels together in instance runs). we all chatted while we waited for another to join. learned allot about them. i got more out of that conversation then I would have in a week of running PuG's in WoW. and I run instances like that pretty much every day on my server, whether they are on level runs, or mixed groups for social points.

 

I can't argue the issue with low population servers. But a limited LFD tool like the one we have (we can polish it up a bit, it is pretty primitive even with what it does), and virtually merge servers (I'm sure most of these are not real servers but pooled farms) for better populations. I'd take that ANY DAY over a game killing LFD.

 

low population servers wont make me quit a game. I usually improvise or reroll. But LFD will make me quit a game...it's done it twice so far. That's not a threat btw...I'm loving this game. but you need to realize that there's a large majority of people for whom having that monstrosity in a game can really be a game breaker.

 

that being said...I'm not against an "LFD" tool that's in server....but we already HAVE ONE. Even if it's basic. Lets improve on that Idea. half the reason people don't use it is it's simply not forced into your face as a major game function like the LFD tool is in WoW. making it a required part of the learning process would solve that. I can usually get a group going for just about anything on my server withing 10-15m. And every person that I get was not flagged for LFG, nor had even opened the tool. We're not even using the tool that is there! how can we say we need another?

 

how about ideas to improve what we got? simplify it? create a separate window options with a basic interface that allows you to select multiple instance runs, and then a notes field to add "I'm a tank","I'm a healer", etc. then people could open that window and search for that instance, and a list pops up? that would certainly speed the process up but still retain the aspects of local community.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Elyx

[XLauncher]

You obviously didn't understand what I meant, let me explain.

 

Without an automated grouping system, you will have your own choice at the group composition.

Let's say you're doing Directive 7. That FP is filled with droids, and very few classes have CCs that are for droids (Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight only as far as I remember). When you have the choice of selecting which classes are in your group, it's easier to pick a composition that will have abilities like CCs that will make the FP easier. I see people often spamming in chat such things like: LF1M tank/dps/healer (whatever) for FP XXXX pref class XXXX.

 

With an LFD tool it will all be randomized. You can get a group with 4 Sith Inquisitors; 1 Sith Assassin tank, 2 Sith Assassin DPSers and 1 Sith Sorcerer healer. In a FP like Directive 7 you'll have no CC at all against droids, which will make it harder. Therefore the content creators have to make the new dungeons with this in mind, causing them ultimately to become easier across the board. Either that or more CC abilities will be able to control droids, in which case it wouldn't matter.

 

First off, Imperial Agents and Smugglers both have droid CCs, the Jedi Sage's Force Lift works on droids, and I can only assume the Sorcerer's equivalent works as well.

 

That aside, you just described, in detail, one of the best things about an automated dungeon tool. You might not see anything wrong with stacking your group with a certain class, but the players that aren't that class might not agree. It's incredibly frustrating for players to be passed over for a group not because of any skill or etiquette issues, but because their class doesn't have an easy button for content that other classes do.

 

And I have to wonder if you don't see the irony in complaining that LFD forces developers to make easier content because it removes your option to stack your group to make content easier.

[Senatsu]

Considering its an optional tool that you already said you won't use I don't see how it impacts you at all. Sounds like you just want the game your way and don't want others to have access to a function they will actually use.

 

Good God. Can people please stop calling it optional? It's a tool that you can choose to use, yes, but when 99% of the server is using it, you won't be able to find a group to do it the normal way. Therefore, you are indirectly forced into using it.

 

First off, Imperial Agents and Smugglers both have droid CCs, the Jedi Sage's Force Lift works on droids, and I can only assume the Sorcerer's equivalent works as well.

 

That aside, you just described, in detail, one of the best things about an automated dungeon tool. You might not see anything wrong with stacking your group with a certain class, but the players that aren't that class might not agree. It's incredibly frustrating for players to be passed over for a group not because of any skill or etiquette issues, but because their class doesn't have an easy button for content that other classes do.

 

And I have to wonder if you don't see the irony in complaining that LFD forces developers to make easier content because it removes your option to stack your group to make content easier.

 

It has nothing to do with stacking classes, it was about the difficulty because some classes might be better suited for tasks. No content should be so difficult as to making it a NEED to have 3-4 people of the same class to make it easier, it's the fact that the randomized group composition will cause most players to complain that content is too hard, so the developers will have to keep it in mind when designing content. They should always have it in mind that it shouldn't be a necessity to stack classes, but removing the extra little help you get from being a class with a special ability to make it a tad easier, is actually fun. It gives you something to always keep an eye out for when you're in a specific FP.

 

I do see the point you are trying to make, and I guess this issue is rather a double-edged sword. But, please, do not disregard the bad implications of a randomized system.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu

[Uruare]

Human nature isn't that hard to understand. Anonymity relieves people of the need to behave civilly.

 

Not always the case, though most everyone has fairly unique ideas of what civil is and is not to begin with. Human nature gets more bizarre the more closely its examined, I find, and not always in the ways one would expect at a glance.

 

 

It's why people act like complete douchebags over the internet. Having a contained server doesn't eliminate this, but it helps to reduce it and gives people a chance to avoid known offenders.

 

It can. It can also bring about a great deal of contextual nepotism wherein which the only people that get to do advanced content are those that impress and get to run with the right groups.

 

Personally, I've seen both, and to me, the toxicity of the latter overwhelms the value of the former, but that's just my personal take on that contrast.

 

 

 

Cross-server LFDs always usher in an increase of loot ninjas and people going out of their way to grief others.

 

That, I'd be very, very leery of assuming. I think it's more likely that through cross-server LFG tools, one gets exposed to more of the people in general, and thus also more of those that are like that.

 

I don't know of any valid reason to assume such tools encourage people to such behaviour otherwise though, as it seems to me to be a rather misplaced notion as to how strong social blacklisting winds up being in these massive games where LFG tools' impact can be isolated and discerned.

 

I don't know that it can be. I've never personally seen it actually make a twig's twitch of difference in who winds up infamous for being a moron on a server and who doesn't.

 

That's my mileage, neither more, nor less, anyway.

 

 

That's not to say that the rate isn't more noticeable due to the increase of groups you get into, but having a cross server group for the LFD tool to choose from doesn't guarantee an increase in dungeons for any individual. DPS still spend for-bloody-ever waiting for the damn thing to pop. Healers and tanks don't have trouble getting groups regardless of the method they use to get into a dungeon, including using /general.

 

See though, that's entirely contingent to role proliferation though amongst other factors.

 

I don't think any of us can, in fact, profess to -know- that cross server LFG tools -caused- that. Was there a correlation in WoW to exactly that effect? For a while, yes.

 

Why? I think we're just making things up if we pretend we know all, or even much, of why. It's only off the sleeve of my shirt that I infer, as best I'm able, that DPS players outnumbered tank and healer players expontentially.

 

I surely don't know that though. What do we actually -know- about why that happened?

 

I think the only correct answer is 'Just about nothing' and any fights over it are fights over beliefs as waged by the strength of any contributing party's convictions thereupon, and not much else.

 

Kinda useless, I'd rate that.

 

 

That said: a non-cross server LFD would be nice.

 

 

I wouldn't mind those, but they'd do nothing to address the issue of low pop servers, which I believe is a substantial portion of some peoples' gripes on the whole matter altogether.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Uruare

[Nitewolfe]

Good God. Can people please stop calling it optional? It's a tool that you can choose to use, yes, but when 99% of the server is using it, you won't be able to find a group to do it the normal way. Therefore, you are indirectly forced into using it.

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with stacking classes, it was about the difficulty because some classes might be better suited for tasks. No content should be so difficult as to making it a NEED to have 3-4 people of the same class to make it easier, it's the fact that the randomized group composition will cause most players to complain that content is too hard, so the developers will have to keep it in mind when designing content. They should always have it in mind that it shouldn't be a necessity to stack classes, but removing the extra little help you get from being a class with a special ability to make it a tad easier, is actually fun. It gives you something to always keep an eye out for when you're in a specific FP.

 

I do see the point you are trying to make, and I guess this issue is rather a double-edged sword. But, please, do not disregard the bad implications of a randomized system.

 

its still optional. Glad you openly admit that cross server lfd tools are so popular that as you said 99% of the player base would use it. But stated that you dont want it when you admit that many many do is very selfish!

 

There are no bad implications from a cross server lfd random.

[Elyx]

its still optional. Glad you openly admit that cross server lfd tools are so popular that as you said 99% of the player base would use it. But stated that you dont want it when you admit that many many do is very selfish!

 

There are no bad implications from a cross server lfd random.

 

Immature approach to an argument. It's obvious (to those who are actually reading her posts) that she meant it as figurative, not an absolute. Nice try tho.

 

Optional is only a word at that point. it's an excuse for you to justify a horrible design approach like the broken LFD that was in existence in WoW. You will simply have to accept the fact that there are a huge number of people who do not like that idea. Many of us are willing to go halfway with a server side tool (even though we already have one). But not the nasty thing that was in WoW. Glad I left rift before they implemented it there too. LotRO still does not have one, and is doing just great IMO.

 

No, we do not need one. You may WANT one, but that's a different story. And No, there are definite negatives to the type that was in WoW. i will seriously lose enjoyment of this game if they put something like that in.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Elyx

[Darkulous]

Just because you anti-lfders walked butt-naked in a blizzard to school doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

 

This isn't an arguement between casuals and hardcore gamers. It's an arguement between different generations of gamers. The days of waiting are over Gramps! Look at society today. The days of waiting are over. Any company that allows their customers to wait are at a severe disadvantage to the competition these days.

 

Nothing wrong with sticking to the classics either. My dad still listens to records.

[DarthKhaos]

that being said...I'm not against an "LFD" tool that's in server....but we already HAVE ONE. Even if it's basic. Lets improve on that Idea. half the reason people don't use it is it's simply not forced into your face as a major game function like the LFD tool is in WoW. making it a required part of the learning process would solve that. I can usually get a group going for just about anything on my server withing 10-15m. And every person that I get was not flagged for LFG, nor had even opened the tool. We're not even using the tool that is there! how can we say we need another?

I've said this before, even made a guide to show off what the tool can do. Sure it's crude but it can help form groups easier if people use it. We;; we've seen how people react to adapting to a situation.

 

I agree with you. Unfortunately this thread isn't about discussion.

[Senatsu]

its still optional. Glad you openly admit that cross server lfd tools are so popular that as you said 99% of the player base would use it. But stated that you dont want it when you admit that many many do is very selfish!

 

There are no bad implications from a cross server lfd random.

 

Wow. Okay, let's do this. Even though I'm very tired and I'm going to bed right after this, let's try to explain this AGAIN.

 

Let's begin with your assumption that LFD tools are popular:

 

When 60-70% of a game's subscribers are casual gamers that has so little time to play that it's basically a waste of money anyway, see a feature like this, they will of course use it. So what happens to those 30-40% that didn't want it? Their pool of available players just got cut immensely. What options do they have now? Wait EVEN longer to do it the way they want to, or just jump on the bandwagon? They jump, and they jump fast and reckless into the bottleneck of retarded elitists and people who feel overly entitled since they also pay $15 a month.

Now you have 99.9% of the server (leaving only you as the rest of your anti-LFD friends have jumped in) using the LFD tool, you are then forced to jump into the cesspool of arrogant elitists and whatnot to get a group.

 

I really hope you understand now, if not, I feel sorry for you.

 

Now, let's move on to random grouping systems (I will just copy this from my earlier post, as I can't be bothered writing it all for the up-tenth time.):

 

Without an automated grouping system, you will have your own choice at the group composition.

Let's say you're doing Directive 7. That FP is filled with droids, and very few classes have CCs that are for droids (Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight only as far as I remember). When you have the choice of selecting which classes are in your group, it's easier to pick a composition that will have abilities like CCs that will make the FP easier. I see people often spamming in chat such things like: LF1M tank/dps/healer (whatever) for FP XXXX pref class XXXX.

 

With an LFD tool it will all be randomized. You can get a group with 4 Sith Inquisitors; 1 Sith Assassin tank, 2 Sith Assassin DPSers and 1 Sith Sorcerer healer. In a FP like Directive 7 you'll have no CC at all against droids, which will make it harder. Therefore the content creators have to make the new dungeons with this in mind, causing them ultimately to become easier across the board.

 

It has nothing to do with stacking classes, it is about the difficulty because some classes might be better suited for tasks. No content should be so difficult as to making it a NEED to have 3-4 people of the same class to make it easier, it's the fact that the randomized group composition will cause most players to complain that content is too hard, so the developers will have to keep it in mind when designing content. They should always have it in mind that it shouldn't be a necessity to stack classes, but removing the extra little help you get from being a class with a special ability to make it a tad easier, is actually ruining a little of the fun. It gives you something to always keep an eye out for when you're in a specific FP.

 

Now, to the loss of community (even more copying here):

 

Right now, tons of people are getting familiar with the game, many people who have never played an MMO before SWTOR. Eventually people will put up PvP movies, boss kill movies etc. THAT is when a community begins to form. People start to hear about this awesome player/guild X on the X server, so they make their own videos. More people PvP and want to raid high-end content because of other players that they see, more players become well known on their servers and it keeps expanding.

 

Servers will get "THE server troll" that always talks in general and trade, servers will get "the seller guy" who floods the GTN with auctions, servers will get "the best PvE guild" that always gets the first boss kills, servers will get "the best PvP" guild that dominates Warzones, servers will get "the PUG guy" that, for some unexplained reason, always has successful PUG raid groups, servers will get "the show off guy" who always stands in the middle of a popular area to flash his full tier XX gear, servers will get the joker, the casino guy, the achievement guy and the list goes on and on and on.

 

Dooming a server's future community before it has even started is stupid and reckless. All of the "The X Guy" people I have posted existed on most of WoW's servers in Vanilla and TBC. They even lived a few months after LFD, but eventually died out because no one could care less, simply due to the horrible side-effects of an LFD/LFR cross-server tool.

 

You all say that "No SWTOR server has a community, so stop talking about how an LFD feature will ruin it!" Well, if you implement an LFD tool before the community has even had a chance to form, then it would cause no damage. But for those of us who wants to have a server community where there are guild vs. guild competitions on boss kills, whatever kinds of PvP events and such, then it will destroy such a future for any server.

 

It doesn't exist right now, but why does the LFD-lovers seem to not want it to form at all?

 

The next part is something posted by Vulgarr:

 

Back before the LFD finder came into existence, playing MMO's required you to interact with people on your home server. To actually do anything (other than solo quest) you had to establish a rapport (connection) with individuals in your COMMUNITY (this may be hard to understand still for some of you, but the community i refer to here is YOUR SERVER COMMUNITY), you had to join a guild or make a large number of friends and add them to your friends list.

 

For those of us that work long hours and have limited game time we had to find a guild and friends that were active during our normal play times.

 

Did this take effort? Yes.

 

Was it impossible to find people that played the same time as me? No.

 

Did I find this mythical guild and have friends on my friends list that played the same times as me? Yes.

 

Did it take work? Absolutely.

 

Once we established a camaraderie in game with like minded people from our server community we filled our guilds and friends lists so we could do the things we wanted to do when we wanted to do them with people we trusted. Sometimes though, we needed to invite strangers into our groups, or we had to just form a party completely from trade chat filled with people you were not familiar with.

 

If we came across a stranger that wasn't performing up to standards we would do everything in our power to help them play better and, if time permitted, helped them get the gear they needed to perform better and give constructive criticism. This garnered more in game friends.

 

When we met someone that was a griefer we would inform the server community through trade/global/general chat of the offenders name and what the offender did to warrant an ignore. This, in turn, would make it harder for griefers to get groups and they would end up having to play nice or switch servers. Once you said "so-and-so ninja looted such-and-such" in chat, most people would go ahead and /ignore that person to prevent having to suffer their griefing in future groups.

 

 

This is the community we speak of. One in which strangers help other strangers while making a friend at the same time. To become a close knit community.

 

With the implementation of the LFD cross server tool we have the following to look forward to:

 

Obnoxious criticism: Tank enters group, tells healer "you really suck dude. i refuse to pull until you leave the group". at which time the healer of course refuses and the group falls apart. back in que for another 20 minutes for the dps while the griefer tank gets insta ques to continue griefing.

 

Excessive griefing: Heavy Armor wearer ninjas every piece of armor by rolling need including cloth, people training their party members, and people just being all around rude and obnoxious with ignorant statements about people in the group.

 

Vote to kick exploits: In group with 3 guild mates, do a whole dungeon up to the last boss, but their guildy needs the same item as you off the last boss. You get booted and they invite their guildy, or they just constantly boot the 4th player for lulz and cause that 4th player another 20 minute wait on another que.

 

There will be many people that will que and get a group and expect to be carried because either their gear doesnt meet the requirements, underskilled, they don't know the fights or just lazy and expect the group to carry them.

 

There will be no repercussions for peoples actions, so the same rudeness we see from the safety of anonymous internet trolls will run rampant in the game. /ignore will mean nothing, and our only real power to police our own community will be taken away. Because they have that LFD button and can group anytime they want with people they will never see again.

 

It will also make it almost impossible to meet new people on your home server, because no one will want to pug a group on your home server because why do that when all you have do is click a button and wait.

 

This is but a few things i experienced in wow with LFD.

 

 

If you read through all of this, I applaud you. If you still don't understand what we understand, I will feel even more sorry for you since apparently, recognizing a problem before it happens is not your strong suit.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu

[ztee]

How about this - do not use it if it’s implemented? Form your own server based group. Sure, you can argue that’s its wasted development time and then cry "why can’t we have our own houses" (or something as equally stupid). It’s all subjective, and IMO LFG options only benefit all of us.

 

I’m sorry, but a lot of us do not care for that sense of community you so long for – we form our own circle in guilds and do not necessarily care for the goings on of you or anyone else. We want faster queues and instant gratification. I get home from work and want to switch off, run an op or fp without the hassle of organising people. LFG options are the key to player retention, and with dual specs we will have more people tanking and healing.

 

The one thing that needs to come with this though, is the incentive for highly geared characters to queue for FP’s. This keeps queue times down and people happy. Personally I’d like to see raid consumables from tionese crystals – id run FP’s all day then!

 

EDIT - to the guy above me, i would openly say ive encountered some fools in WoW's LFG, but it may be once out of every 15 runs. This is fine, and statistically it would be about the same if you formed your own group. The nay sayers said that LFG would kill wows community (you can try argue that it was established, but your average player does not care for the server troll / best pve guild etc), but in my opinion it only enhances it.

 

As long as the tool is built with some protection for loot distribution / kicking in place we are all fine and dandy.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ztee

[terminova]

Holy crap my post was badly worded. Nomatter at what point of WoW you played, I'm fairly certain most of the people utilizing the LFD tool have had a great experience with it.

 

A server-wide LFD will not stop the doucebags. You might stop some of them, but it they'll still be around and when some of them decides to behave properly another one will show it's fugly face.

 

It limits the number of people I have to put on my ignore list. Cross server? There is no ignore list limit big enough for them all even if it would work. Most means not everyone had a great experience with it meaning some had a less than positive experience dealing with it.

[Darkulous]

It limits the number of people I have to put on my ignore list. Cross server? There is no ignore list limit big enough for them all even if it would work. Most means not everyone had a great experience with it meaning some had a less than positive experience dealing with it.

 

I don't use the ignore button. They usually get kicked, or leave after a string of vulgar words. Then we reque and bam! A replacement. What happens when somebody in a Flashpoint leaves? Yea, it sucks.

[Uruare]

Wow. Okay, let's do this. Even though I'm very tired and I'm going to bed right after this, let's try to explain this AGAIN.

 

Stuff

 

 

 

See...it's not that we that want LFG tools don't understand you. I'd take the risk of guessing that at least some of us very well do -understand- what you are saying.

 

I know I do. I have absolutely no difficulty understanding what you're saying and what your reasoning is.

 

I simply do not agree with you on that which is in controversy, and there's no debate to be had on your experiential references.

 

Stuff happened; I thought this about it and feel this way; ergo, I think X should be Y and never Z.

 

 

A point I would like to establish, in contrast and, yes, contention with your own, is that you base a great deal of your position on your personal experience.

 

This is not a bad thing, nor is it an inherently stupid thing. Where it becomes bad and stupid is in the expectation that such a thing WILL ABSOLUTELY do this and WILL ABSOLUTELY lead to people being like Blah and Derp and LOL, and WILL ABSOLUTELY turn 'The Community™" into a cesspit of filthy, stinking evil.

 

 

I cannot agree. My own experiences with such tools in other games, contrasted pound-for-pound against your own, have been rather different. My assumptions of what the community was before them and was after, very, very different.

 

My absolute knowledge of which would be better or worse? Nill. Yours? Nill.

 

Pretty much anyone's? Nill.

 

So we've got a lot of beliefs and personal experiences we've made whatever out of based on whyever we ultimately felt like to go on.

 

 

This is not all that useful a thing to argue over. And it's infuriating to me to see these tired old dramatics drug up all over again when, of what little there is to reference, the facts just don't jive with the doomsaying.

 

WoW isn't dead, for example. People are clearly still playing it; I can only hope most of them are enjoying doing so.

 

Were they before? From -my- point of view? People were still playing it, but a lot more of them that I ever saw and dealt with seemed angrier, more bitter and frustrated.

 

Now it seems more like a business-like apathy has replaced that; again, this is just my take on it.

 

Me, I'd prefer the business-like apathy to what I found to be common prior.

 

Others' mileage can and clearly will vary.

[terminova]

How about this - do not use it if it’s implemented? Form your own server based group. Sure, you can argue that’s its wasted development time and then cry "why can’t we have our own houses" (or something as equally stupid). It’s all subjective, and IMO LFG options only benefit all of us.

 

I’m sorry, but a lot of us do not care for that sense of community you so long for – we form our own circle in guilds and do not necessarily care for the goings on of you or anyone else. We want faster queues and instant gratification. I get home from work and want to switch off, run an op or fp without the hassle of organising people. LFG options are the key to player retention, and with dual specs we will have more people tanking and healing.

 

The one thing that needs to come with this though, is the incentive for highly geared characters to queue for FP’s. This keeps queue times down and people happy. Personally I’d like to see raid consumables from tionese crystals – id run FP’s all day then!

 

You don't get it, do you? The people you'd get a group with are already in the LFG queue. They aren't going to drop queue just to wait with you while you piece a group together.

 

No, you won't have more people healing and tanking with dual spec. If they wanted to tank or heal, they'd already be doing it. What you get with dual spec is more people wanting more specs, people trying to tank or heal in DPS gear or really bad tank/heal gear. I know, you don't believe that will ever happen in a million years.

 

See...it's not that we that want LFG tools don't understand you. I'd take the risk of guessing that at least some of us very well do -understand- what you are saying.

 

No, you don't understand. It isn't about a LFG tool, it's about cross server functionality.

Edited February 13, 2012 by terminova

[Darkulous]

You don't get it, do you? The people you'd get a group with are already in the LFG queue. They aren't going to drop queue just to wait with you while you piece a group together.

 

 

I love it when anti-LFDers readily admit that everyone will use it if it gets implemented and THAT is the reason it shouldn't be implemented. O.o

[Senatsu]

I love it when anti-LFDers readily admit that everyone will use it if it gets implemented and THAT is the reason it shouldn't be implemented. O.o

 

I can't be bothered explaining it to you anymore, you are clearly unable to understand simple logic.

 

See...it's not that we that want LFG tools don't understand you. I'd take the risk of guessing that at least some of us very well do -understand- what you are saying.

 

I guess I'm just seeing the worst case scenario. I just don't want the sense of community I had in TBC WoW to have a high chance of being destroyed before it's even begun. Maybe the "new kids on the MMO block" doesn't want this, and that sense of community is something that belongs to the "old folks who scream at them when they run in the flower bed". Different generation, different expectations, I guess.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu