Is it true that the Shotgun Animation is slower than the Operatives Knife Animation?

[taeken]

There is a dirty...dirty...rumor going around on the empire side of my server that says the Operative Knife animation is faster than the Shotgun animation. Is this true?...or just more lies and propaganda?

 

I only PvP....and I might offend some people with this statement....but I don't give a damn about the story line because it ends at level 50 anyway. I space bar through the story and pick my light or dark side points. Unfortunately I am on a Role Playing server....so when I ask my fellow Sith if I should go Scoundrel or Operative based on their fighting animations... they usually respond with "Well Scoundrel is more of a cowboy ladies man....and the operative is more of a James bond 007 ladies man"....which does not help me at all....and a few say "Operative because the shotgun animation is slower"....

 

I like the way the shotgun looks over the knife but not willing to give up time for its animation....also Scoundrels using punches instead of weapons found in the game...is a little disappointing....I just wanted to know your thoughts.

[Melkathi]

No offense taken

So no offense meant either: Why are you on a RP server if you only care about PvP?

 

As for the rumor:

 

It's true.

[taeken]

No offense taken

So no offense meant either: Why are you on a RP server if you only care about PvP?

 

As for the rumor:

 

It's true.

 

How much slower?

 

Is it like if you go Operative you stab someone in the back in 1 second

 

and

 

if you go scoundrel you tap the empire player on the shoulder and tell them "DONT MOVE....wait 1 second while I load"...load your shotgun....and 5 mins later shoot him?

Edited February 12, 2012 by taeken

[taeken]

Why are you on a RP server if you only care about PvP?

 

It's a RP PvP Server

 

and I'm there because of friends....and because I enjoy watching role players interact with each other....from a distance of course

[Metalmac]

How much slower?

 

Is it like if you go Operative you stab someone in the back in 1 second

 

and

 

if you go scoundrel you tap the empire player on the shoulder and tell them "DONT MOVE....wait 1 second while I load"...load your shotgun....and 5 mins later shoot him?

 

Very much like 3 times slower.

 

I am a level 50 Scrapper missing only 1 Champion piece of gear.

 

When I go one on one with a Operative it is just sad that he is on his 4th ability and I am on my second still.

 

So yea it is really slow and that is just one animation, there are many that are slower.

[OniGanon]

The global cooldown isn't any longer for us than it is for them.

[Zunayson]

Operatives put the knife above their heads then shank down like a man murdering a woman in the shower from an old Hitchcock movie.

 

Scoundrels raise a shotgun to their waist than go "KABAM!". Also note that if it IS that long, the GCD is the same, and therefore means that you can get another move off, even if the animation isn't complete.

 

I haven't tried scoundrel, nor do I have the patience to grind it to 36, but they're probably about the same, although Shoot First is probably a bit lagged. I dunno, I've had people turn around and face me as an operative about to hidden strike. I had already hit the button, so there's probably lag on that as well. Just go whatever fits your preference. It's not game-breaking. Operatives use knives (And can get better knives to up those power moves, just as a scoundrel has better shotguns.. err. scatter guns). But the punch in the face should be affected by a scatter gun, as the operative's Laceration is affected by the power of the knife. Same with pistol whip.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Zunayson

[blarse]

I have both at a high level (50 operative, 43 scoundrel) and feel that the operative animations are just a little bit quicker. Doesn't change the global cooldown though.

 

Also to the guy above who said that getting a better knife ups your damage: Yes it does, but only because it increases your tech power. The damage rating on your knife/scatter gun is just there for show.

[Mangetsu]

Well, the animations' speed don't matter anymore. Because damage doesn't wait for the animation to finish. Imagine you backblast the boss but only miliseconds later he knocks you back. When that happens, the animation doesn't play but the damage applies. So basically, animation speed doesn't matter.

 

Let's talk about animation variety.

 

UPPER HAND/TACTICAL ADVANTAGE GRANTER

Scoundrel: Blaster Whip to the head

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

STUN

Scoundrel: Kicks in the balls

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

UH/TA EXPLOIT (Melee)

Scoundrel: Punch in the face

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

OPENER

Scoundrel: Shotgun

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

FROM BEHIND

Scoundrel: Shotgun

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

So... As you can see, you get tired of knives after a while. I have a lvl50 scoundrel (scrapper) and a 30 operative (concealment). In my opinion, scoundrel animations are a lot more bad@ss than operative animations. Since the global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for every class, slow or fast animations don't mean much to me.

[Metalmac]

The global cooldown isn't any longer for us than it is for them.

 

ANIMATION not the global cooldown, please learn to read the post subject.

[Metalmac]

Well, the animations' speed don't matter anymore. Because damage doesn't wait for the animation to finish. Imagine you backblast the boss but only miliseconds later he knocks you back. When that happens, the animation doesn't play but the damage applies. So basically, animation speed doesn't matter.

 

Let's talk about animation variety.

 

UPPER HAND/TACTICAL ADVANTAGE GRANTER

Scoundrel: Blaster Whip to the head

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

STUN

Scoundrel: Kicks in the balls

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

UH/TA EXPLOIT (Melee)

Scoundrel: Punch in the face

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

OPENER

Scoundrel: Shotgun

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

FROM BEHIND

Scoundrel: Shotgun

Operative: Stabs with knife

 

So... As you can see, you get tired of knives after a while. I have a lvl50 scoundrel (scrapper) and a 30 operative (concealment). In my opinion, scoundrel animations are a lot more bad@ss than operative animations. Since the global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for every class, slow or fast animations don't mean much to me.

 

Let me go over what you do not know:

 

Blaster Whip and Knife are about the same speed.

 

Stun kick roots the Scoundrel for 1 seconds then is allowed to get behind target, the mirror knife can do this on the run with no root. Want to test this jump and hit Dirty Kick. You will be locked in the air for 1 second before you can move again.

 

Punch animation takes longer so next ability is delayed by animation while mirror is faster. Matter of fact a Operative can do 4 in the time a Scrapper can do 2, it is that slow.

 

Shotgun is slower and no one can deny this. Again the Operative can do 4 to the Scrapper 2.

 

Shotgun is slower and has been complained about since Beta.

 

So what is the solution that genius at SWTOR going to do to fix this?

Answer: make the Opreative just as slow as Scrapper. Good Going guys, craptastic job.

[pomg]

Think the problem is Flechette Round it doens't respect the global cooldown but it feels like you have to wait for the animation to finish before you can use an other skill.

[Waagabond]

No offense taken

So no offense meant either: Why are you on a RP server if you only care about PvP?

 

As for the rumor:

 

It's true.

 

Yes, the animation is slower and cool, but it does not matter, you can cut the animation if you like.

For example, the animation for adding flechette round: You can use flechette round and instantly use shoot first or backblast, the animation breaks into an attack instead.

 

If people are waiting for the animation to finish before they click their ability then........

 

but thats only for flechette. Backblast have a longer animation then IAs equivalent.

Shoot first however is pretty damn instant.

 

Above all, Im playing the scoundrel for the shotgun, that got me at "hello".

Its really not making or breaking that much, but he could do the movement faster thats for sure.

[Waagabond]

Think the problem is Flechette Round it doens't respect the global cooldown but it feels like you have to wait for the animation to finish before you can use an other skill.

 

This is utterly wrong.

The moment you press flechette round its active and you can instantly use shoot first or backblast.

Im doing it and i doubt Im bugged.

 

Dont wait for the animation unless you dont need to attack at that instant.

[Raice]

Let me go over what you do not know:

 

Blaster Whip and Knife are about the same speed.

 

Stun kick roots the Scoundrel for 1 seconds then is allowed to get behind target, the mirror knife can do this on the run with no root. Want to test this jump and hit Dirty Kick. You will be locked in the air for 1 second before you can move again.

 

Punch animation takes longer so next ability is delayed by animation while mirror is faster. Matter of fact a Operative can do 4 in the time a Scrapper can do 2, it is that slow.

 

Shotgun is slower and no one can deny this. Again the Operative can do 4 to the Scrapper 2.

 

Shotgun is slower and has been complained about since Beta.

 

So what is the solution that genius at SWTOR going to do to fix this?

Answer: make the Opreative just as slow as Scrapper. Good Going guys, craptastic job.

 

This is about right. I've been in fights with an Op and there is simply no denying it. They CAN and DO attack faster. It's not a matter of skill... there are a lot of fishy logistics involved, but none of it matters. They simply produce more attacks than we do within a given amount of time.

 

Also, they have absolutely no movement restrictions. We have them all over the place. The Dirty Kick is a prime example of this. We lose an entire second on a 4 second stun, simply because of the animation.

 

All the Imp classes are like this against their mirrors though. All of them. There is not a single example of where a Rep class has a "curiously suspicious" advantage over its Imp mirror. And... it's not like you can refute it. It's plain as day. Yet these go ignored, which makes me think it was by design.... which sucks.

[Nessirin]

This is about right. I've been in fights with an Op and there is simply no denying it. They CAN and DO attack faster. It's not a matter of skill... there are a lot of fishy logistics involved, but none of it matters. They simply produce more attacks than we do within a given amount of time.

 

Also, they have absolutely no movement restrictions. We have them all over the place. The Dirty Kick is a prime example of this. We lose an entire second on a 4 second stun, simply because of the animation.

 

All the Imp classes are like this against their mirrors though. All of them. There is not a single example of where a Rep class has a "curiously suspicious" advantage over its Imp mirror. And... it's not like you can refute it. It's plain as day. Yet these go ignored, which makes me think it was by design.... which sucks.

 

Blame a mirror class for your lack of skill all you want, but the fact is, there is animation canceling in the game right now, and it doesn't matter how long your animation is. You ARE able to interrupt it with another move. Therefore it doesn't matter how long your animation is, because global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for both. They may look like they stab faster, but you can press your global at the same time they do, and your animation will interrupt for the next move.

 

Learn your class.

[Haralin]

Blame a mirror class for your lack of skill all you want, but the fact is, there is animation canceling in the game right now, and it doesn't matter how long your animation is. You ARE able to interrupt it with another move. Therefore it doesn't matter how long your animation is, because global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for both. They may look like they stab faster, but you can press your global at the same time they do, and your animation will interrupt for the next move.

 

Learn your class.

 

But the Root Animation still binds you on place, and this is a huge advantage for the op.

[Raice]

Blame a mirror class for your lack of skill all you want, but the fact is, there is animation canceling in the game right now, and it doesn't matter how long your animation is. You ARE able to interrupt it with another move. Therefore it doesn't matter how long your animation is, because global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for both. They may look like they stab faster, but you can press your global at the same time they do, and your animation will interrupt for the next move.

 

Learn your class.

 

 

Alright... genius. Let's look at this - we won't go too far into this... simply because I don't need to.

 

Dirty Kick - 4s Stun.

 

I use this so I can maneuver around to use Back Blast. Op uses a mirror ability that does the same thing.

 

I use it - suddenly, I can't move because I am 1s rooted until the animation is finished. They can move, because they don't have to wait for an animation. They're already a second ahead of me...

 

1s is up, I maneuver around - Ops has already used their Back Blast mirror. I am just now using it. I use it (assuming they didn't use an Escape.) I'm rooted again because of the animation. Ops is about to finish their third attack by now, and I am halfway through my second one.

 

The reason the GCD argument doesn't matter, is because their GCD starts BEFORE ours, because we can't USE our ability until AFTER the animation root, and AFTER we have positioned ourselves, by which time the Op is already moving to the third attack.

 

The animation cancelling does not effect all animations. It simply doesn't.

 

Also, stop making assumptions. Did I say anything about me losing to Ops because of this? No - I didn't. I don't need to be a "whiner" to state an observable fact. There was a question asked. It was answered. I agreed with the poster who answered it. It has nothing to do with me not knowing my class. Point in fact, it is BECAUSE I know my class, that I know how it works vs its mirror.

 

You need to settle down and get off your high horse. No one here cares about your ego.

[MaglorArcanist]

Alright... genius. Let's look at this - we won't go too far into this... simply because I don't need to.

 

Dirty Kick - 4s Stun.

 

I use this so I can maneuver around to use Back Blast. Op uses a mirror ability that does the same thing.

 

I use it - suddenly, I can't move because I am 1s rooted until the animation is finished. They can move, because they don't have to wait for an animation. They're already a second ahead of me...

 

1s is up, I maneuver around - Ops has already used their Back Blast mirror. I am just now using it. I use it (assuming they didn't use an Escape.) I'm rooted again because of the animation. Ops is about to finish their third attack by now, and I am halfway through my second one.

 

The reason the GCD argument doesn't matter, is because their GCD starts BEFORE ours, because we can't USE our ability until AFTER the animation root, and AFTER we have positioned ourselves, by which time the Op is already moving to the third attack.

 

The animation cancelling does not effect all animations. It simply doesn't.

 

Also, stop making assumptions. Did I say anything about me losing to Ops because of this? No - I didn't. I don't need to be a "whiner" to state an observable fact. There was a question asked. It was answered. I agreed with the poster who answered it. It has nothing to do with me not knowing my class. Point in fact, it is BECAUSE I know my class, that I know how it works vs its mirror.

 

You need to settle down and get off your high horse. No one here cares about your ego.

 

this, i using a sniper and my main is a scoundrel, the difference in debilitate/dirty kick is sensible if you played a scoundrel, you stun and you are back of the enemy near the same time, while with the scoundrel you have to waith to move, in case of use of the cc breaker this is even more sensible.

 

Take ad example another class, the sage, sometimes when we or the operative disappair you can see a stone flying half way becouse we have disappered befor the animation ended, when the sorcerer is istant and hit in the moment.

The same thing can happen with the dirty kick, if disappear when we have the animation in motion, he flee and the stun is loose.

1 second too many times is too much in a competitive fight.

[OniGanon]

ANIMATION not the global cooldown, please learn to read the post subject.

 

I did read the post subject.

 

The animation speed doesn't matter in this case because speed is going to be restricted by the global cooldown, which is the same for both classes.

 

You want to prove otherwise? Post a video that clearly and repeatedly shows an Operative performing more abilities in the same timeframe than a Scoundrel.

 

Root on Dirty Kick is a separate issue.

Edited February 13, 2012 by OniGanon

[Mangetsu]

Blame a mirror class for your lack of skill all you want, but the fact is, there is animation canceling in the game right now, and it doesn't matter how long your animation is. You ARE able to interrupt it with another move. Therefore it doesn't matter how long your animation is, because global cooldown is 1.5 seconds for both. They may look like they stab faster, but you can press your global at the same time they do, and your animation will interrupt for the next move.

 

Learn your class.

 

I agree. Animation speed doesn't matter since the GCD is 1.5 seconds both for Scoundrel and Operative. No matter how fast an operative does his animation, he still waits for the GCD for his next move. And even though Scoundrel animations may look slower, he can still use his next ability once it's off GCD. He doesn't have to wait for the first animation to end; he can cut it in half. Just press those hotkeys in time.

 

But DEVs need to do something about dirty kick's root effect. They should either make Debilitate root too, or change Dirty Kick into something else that won't root them (I prefer the latter), otherwise they keep losing an entire second being rooted, and almost another second getting behind the enemy for a backblast. That's a waste of a precious 4 second stun.

[Waagabond]

This is about right. I've been in fights with an Op and there is simply no denying it. They CAN and DO attack faster. It's not a matter of skill... there are a lot of fishy logistics involved, but none of it matters. They simply produce more attacks than we do within a given amount of time.

 

Also, they have absolutely no movement restrictions. We have them all over the place. The Dirty Kick is a prime example of this. We lose an entire second on a 4 second stun, simply because of the animation.

 

All the Imp classes are like this against their mirrors though. All of them. There is not a single example of where a Rep class has a "curiously suspicious" advantage over its Imp mirror. And... it's not like you can refute it. It's plain as day. Yet these go ignored, which makes me think it was by design.... which sucks.

 

I have not lost to an operative, once, and ive fought alot.

 

The only animation we have that have a very short freeze is dirty kick. But not much.

 

I have done dirty kick while running and I might..might, have lost half a meter in distance.

I know the operative equivalent is instant. But to be able to kick someone in the nuts, I dont mind loosing a step for that. Its all about being cool.

 

The difference between an operative and scoundrel is one thing: Skill.

If you loose to operatives, its your failure or they are simply better.

 

Or the scoundrel is not for you?

The scoundrel and operative is without a doubt, this games hardcore and hardest class to master, there is NO comparison.

Vanguards have a ton of tools and it feels as if Im going for hell to easy mode when I play my vanguard. But Im used to keybinds, I have a razor naga etc.

I have nearly 30 keybinds that I use with my smuggler, exclusive buffs but including adrenals.

 

To use a scoundrel well is not easy.

 

And THATS the reason they give us shoot first so late. To make sure you learn the other abilities first, before you start to rely on shoot first. I think its a great concept and i am cettain its on purpose.

 

Cause if you think you will **** people with shoot first, flechette round and backblast then you should reroll.

Smugglers are a complex class, or wait...Scoundrels, Gunslingers less so but still have a ton of cards up their sleeve too.

 

I am performing extremly well with the Scoundrel now, but it IS underpowered, and a slight buff, I cant wait for it.

 

Animation speeds: You can cancel the animation with moving or just pressing the attack.

The best example is flechette round, where you can press flechette round and 0.1 seconds press backblast and you will use it.

As a matter of fact if you have a razor naga or keyboard with macros, you can macro in flechette+backblast or flechette+shoot first. Never though tot if myself but maybe thats something worth thinking about.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Waagabond

[ViskarNogame]

lolrwesrs? You don't have to wait for an animation (Except Dirty Kick) to do the next attack. The only attack that Ops have that is legit-quicker than Scoundrel is their stun. They can knife on the move - We can't kick on the move.

 

The animations don't affect combat -at all-. If you're basing when you can attack off animations, then you probably shouldn't be PvPing seriously, just for fun.

[Ugugg]

I've had ppl steal kill my quick shot medal whilst I was getting my scatter gun out before. I'm like lol you're mine, let me pull my gun out ...

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Still looking for it

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Gimmi a second

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Kill steal, no medal.

 

Apart from that i don't mind actually.

[tenehuini]

The animations are slower, but the damage (from back blast for example) is subtracted way before the animation plays and the number is shown. This is noticeable when you kill someone. You are out of combat before the animation plays.

 

As for the dirty kick, yes, that's an issue that should be resolved.