The Pro-Toggle Thread for same gender content.

[Comfterbilly]

In that case this thread should be deleted. The option to have same sex relationships censored is rude and insulting.

 

Please, avoid getting so personal. To most people its a plain issue of game immersion, we're specifically here to talk about innovative flirt prompts as they relate to the game experience and the game mechanics; we have done our best to keep everything on point, if you have an argument against being able to customize your single-player experience, we'd love to hear it.

[Fluffy_Bunny]

Please, avoid getting so personal. To most people its a plain issue of game immersion, we're specifically here to talk about innovative flirt prompts as they relate to the game experience and the game mechanics; we have done our best to keep everything on point, if you have an argument against being able to customize your single-player experience, we'd love to hear it.

 

Sure, my argument against being able to censor same sex interraction is that it is rude and insulting.

[Comfterbilly]

Sure, my argument against being able to censor same sex interraction is that it is rude and insulting.

 

Well that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of what being able to customize your content means. It doesn't mean any content related to same gender NPC/NPC quests will be "censored", it just means your toon won't be solicited by the NPC's who are of the same or opposite gender unless you choose said option. Lots in the LGBT community have said they'd prefer to toggle hetero flirts as well; its not 'wrong': its specific.

[Raximillian]

I really do not understand where the problem is still. There are no needs for toggles, or anything similar. It is as simple as not clicking on the flirt option when you see one.

 

I'm male, I play female characters, but I have no interest in watching my female inquisitor flirting with male characters. So I do not click the flirt option. I do not feel insulted or anything similar when I see the option, I just do not click it. Simple as that. Let BW add as many conversation options as they want. It's up to us to click them, or not.

[Fluffy_Bunny]

Well that's a pretty gross misrepresentation of what being able to customize your content means. It doesn't mean any content related to same gender NPC/NPC quests will be "censored", it just means your toon won't be solicited by the NPC's who are of the same or opposite gender unless you choose said option. Lots in the LGBT community have said they'd prefer to toggle hetero flirts as well; its not 'wrong': its specific.

 

No, censorship is censorship however you dress it up. Remove it, avoid it, cover it up. Censorship.

 

As for the LGBT community, I'm pretty sure that when they say they want to disable hetero flirts the subtext reads like:

 

"LOL I couldn't care less, I am happy in my sexual preference and happy with everyone elses. As a well rounded intelligent individual I do not take offence at real or fictional people's interaction with me regardless of them being my orientation or its polar opposite. I'll just put the option of removing hetero flirts in to try and illustrate how bad this idea is."

Edited February 22, 2012 by Fluffy_Bunny

[Orisai]

I agree that there should be a toggle for SGRA content, but it also should be on Parental Controls if they are ever implemented.

[VelnikSP]

No, censorship is censorship however you dress it up. Remove it, avoid it, cover it up. Censorship.

 

As for the LGBT community, I'm pretty sure that when they say they want to disable hetero flirts the subtext read like:

 

"LOL I couldn't care less, I am happy in my sexual preference and happy with everyone elses. As a well rounded intelligent individual I do not take offence at real or fictional people's interaction with me regardless of them being my orientation or its polar opposite. I'll just put the option of removing hetero flirts in to try and illustrate how bad this idea is."

 

You mean like the way any dissenting opinion in this thread is mod-hammered into oblivion?

 

Believe me, Bioware is extremely comfortable with censorship. a few of us simply want it to work in our favor, this time.

 

And, if you haven't noticed, many of us want ALL romantic interactions to be capable of being toggled. most of them absolutely suck, and are horribly unrealistic and immersion-breaking.

 

Tharan is one of the worst offenders, no matter WHAT you have said, or how many times you tell him to get lost, he still acts like he slept with your character... I want THAT crap turned off, and I don't want 'gay versions' of that behavior in my game.

 

 

The people who want a toggle want it for a very good reason... so we are not forced to deal with another 'Tharan Romance'. and believe me, the straight version offends many of us just as much.

 

 

TOGGLE!

[Fluffy_Bunny]

And, if you haven't noticed, many of us want ALL romantic interactions to be capable of being toggled. most of them absolutely suck, and are horribly unrealistic and immersion-breaking.

 

A blanket switch for all romantic interactions. No problem. However this thread is "...for same gender content"

[VelnikSP]

A blanket switch for all romantic interactions. No problem. However this thread is "...for same gender content"

 

I didn't say a blanket switch. reading comprehension ftw.

 

here, let me repeat that again:

many of us want ALL romantic interactions to be capable of being toggled.

 

restating my words incorrectly is not an 'I win' toggle.

Edited February 22, 2012 by VelnikSP

[Fluffy_Bunny]

I didn't say a blanket switch. reading comprehension ftw.

 

I didn't say you did.

 

Basic reading skills ftw.

 

restating my words incorrectly is not an 'I win' toggle.

 

Neither is trolling over semantics.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Fluffy_Bunny

[Krayna]

Well one stance I have seen for Pro toggle is this. That upon character creation that you pick your sexuality? There is one major flaw I see with that, Character creation is deciding one thing and one thing alone how your character looks not acts. There is not one thing on character creation as it is now that defines what a person is besides species and look.

 

If we are going to put a toggle on that screen then we might as well put a darkside/lightside toggle, a sense of humor/wit/sarcasm toggle, and Oh here is a good one how about a replace all empire voices toggle because we cant have those British sounding people in game. (( that was sarcasm by the way I am mostly Welsh descent as is )) Your toggle for EVERY action is already in game. You get 3 of them with every option.

 

And I will take this a step further how about a toggle that turns off the what some people feel is highly offensive slap the sith species punish ability. What is odd is that , SGRA's are more offensive or intrusive then beating around a person that cannot and will not fight back and just starts crying. I find it horribly offensive but I choose to ignore it. I don't use it and you have the same choices to ignore what you find offensive/political. Just because its not your cup of tea or you support it doesn't mean it should be put out there and branded as offensive. If you don't know what i am talking about look up sith slap on YouTube.

 

NOW on the other hand I know that usually flirt is usually the only nice option on alot of arcs surrounded by 2 blehs make them feel bad. I can say flat out yes there needs to be some more bromance/BFF type options. One of the things I would like to see added is a best friend arc where its not a romance but just the preferred person you would want to be around. Options that are clearly defined as hey we are great friends or building friendship with that crew member. I am ok with adding a 4th button for flirts and giving people even more options when working around where there can be SGRA and OGRA.

 

Bioware and EA has never had a toggle for this content in the past and yes some of the games that have had it were M rated but even then this game is rated Teen just like the Sims. It boils down to being offensive to a group of minorities by labeling their lifestyle as worthy of being crude and political vs ignoring a thing you do not agree with. I am sorry but what i have seen in this game as of abuse and intense subject matter One item should NOT be singled out for censorship or made to look like its obscene.

[Racheakt]

Ok, I'll reiterate my counter points to you since you have presented the only voice that wasn't just "I don't want to have to look at the gay":

 

A) I agree it is not malleable and I agree with A-1, but A-2 I think is a point of contention. You can add flirt options without making them the only way to interact with a character. DA2 sucked for this. ME2 was much better.

 

B) Agreed

 

C) Yes, but just because they are offended does not mean they need to be catered to. Like it or not there are those offended by the racism of the empire. It should be no more subject to removal than this.

 

D) I group up for planetary quests. Darth Lachis is a good example of someone you can end up flirting with during group play.

 

I am not saying that I am insulted by the fact that some people only want to play hetero characters. However you can easily do this by just NOT flirting with the same gender. It takes no more effort than NOT picking the flirt option. Ideally Bioware has enough sense to not make flirt the only amicable option in a conversation.

 

 

The problem I have is that by playing a character I discover their sexuality in the same what that I discover their personality. I thought I was going to play a dark side bounty hunter but I found that Mako's opinion really mattered to me. Hello light side points. I thought I would play a balanced Sorc but people just constantly were begging to get shocked. Hello dark side points. I also thought the Sorc was a lesbian, but damn it Andronikus and her just had so much chemistry. Maybe I'm a little too into the game in that way. But for me picking the sexuality of the character breaks the immersion, and I imagine it is the same for other people.

 

I'm also worried about the implementation. These kinds of changes are inevitably fraught with bugs. Instead of just turning it all on you are adding numerous checks elsewhere in the code for the gay/notgay track. Also, you'll eventually need a 3rd track for the undecided/bi folks. It just becomes increasingly complex as you try to please more people when the most simple solution is the most obvious. Give people the option to flirt. Let them skip it if they want.

 

The problem here is that this topic is hit a "real-world" nerve and crosses into a topic that has the ability to offend in a real way.

 

With Item C, there is a large population that are offended, and having the constant "here flirt with the person who is same gender" button will be at least game impacting (item A1) or offensive. So (IMHO) the "just skip it" is not an option.

 

As for Item D, I can live with that, real world you just run into folks you may not agree with. I am pointing out though that the vast majority in this game solo that content. If someone is that hung up about it just don't group for that content like 99% of the player base does.

 

I cannot say as to your personal play style, I tend to play myself, which is someone who is not interested in one gender at all. Which means if I play a toon of my opposing real life gender I would pursue SGRA content. But that is how I have been led to understand the topic of sexuality, it is what is (like race or gender); even though I may be playing one sex, I am still the player and I am attracted to what I am.

 

...

If we are going to put a toggle on that screen then we might as well put a darkside/lightside toggle, a sense of humor/wit/sarcasm toggle, and Oh here is a good one how about a replace all empire voices toggle because we cant have those British sounding people in game. (( that was sarcasm by the way I am mostly Welsh descent as is )) Your toggle for EVERY action is already in game. You get 3 of them with every option.

...

 

See some of my logic on this. Light and Dark is a moveable state, you can fall to the dark side and be redeemed over and over. Humor/wit/sarcasm is done (can be done) based on who you deal with. My BH hates force users and is a sarcastic jerk to the Sith, but will joke with my crew and other BH.

 

To that end I do not see a straight toon (or a homosexual one) after the 100th prompt for the same gender flirt saying "ok". One can make the argument about bi-sexual content, but then again we do not have trans-gender sex selection either.....

 

keep these high fuel argument issues out of gaming.... there is enough in politics.

 

my vote is no.

you can get rid of the regular romance stuff too...cheesy, and it didnt have any effect on gameplay or story....

 

(( [flirt], ohhhh, bed me, OK, done ))..... that's all there is anyway. why do we need this kind of cheese in star wars game?

 

no toggle, no stupid sexual inuendos.

 

no content that creates rifts becuase they are battle issues in real life.....and this sure qualifies.

 

.

 

This is one a whole heartily agree with, BW cannot write a realistic relationship story, none of them are that far from an adolescent "Yes, I'm getting laid" level.

 

BW has put themselves in a needless bind by including any romantic arcs to the game. MMOs need to appeal to wider audience to be successful. Not including any such content at would have allowed the two sides of this argument to just enjoy a decent Star Wars game, blissfully leaving the real-world behind. But by including OGRA and not SGRA instant dissatisfaction on one side; Then to say you are going to include SGRA those who have an objection (or no desire to see it all the time) to that want a toggle, boom another argument. All of this when we should be enjoying the game.

 

Sad in this was really a needless inclusion that is going to nothing but negatively impact the subscription base, as everyone would have played without it, but there will be people who will leave of it not handled in a way they feel does their world view justice.

 

GL BW on the balance.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Racheakt

[Lokiliesmith]

To that end I do not see a straight toon (or a homosexual one) after the 100th prompt for the same gender flirt saying "ok". One can make the argument about bi-sexual content, but then again we do not have trans-gender sex selection either.....

 

 

I can think of a number of reasons to flirt without changing teams. Maybe not as a dark lord of the Sith but being a Smuggler, Agent or Bounty Hunter? I mean, listen, if it's going to get me some extra credits, info or credits (respectively), you better believe I'm turning on the charm.

[Racheakt]

I can think of a number of reasons to flirt without changing teams. Maybe not as a dark lord of the Sith but being a Smuggler, Agent or Bounty Hunter? I mean, listen, if it's going to get me some extra credits, info or credits (respectively), you better believe I'm turning on the charm.

 

Fair enough, choose to make a bi-sexual toon and ignore or take the prompts you want

[Liavain]

Fair enough, choose to make a bi-sexual toon and ignore or take the prompts you want

 

I am bisexual. I demand a toggle that enables flirt options for all NPCs!

(You realize how silly that sounds?)

The OP also doesn't seem to care that the whole idea of a toggle is moot.

 

Bioware is not adding same sex flirt options to any current conversations.

Therefore, s/he has the option to ignore the possible new flirt options by not interacting with the new Crew-members they will add for same-sex romances. The need for Bioware to even add a toggle is simply not there. This thread is just a useless jab at same-sex relationships.

[Racheakt]

I am bisexual. I demand a toggle that enables flirt options for all NPCs!

(You realize how silly that sounds?)

The OP also doesn't seem to care that the whole idea of a toggle is moot.

 

Bioware is not adding same sex flirt options to any current conversations.

Therefore, s/he has the option to ignore the possible new flirt options by not interacting with the new Crew-members they will add for same-sex romances. The need for Bioware to even add a toggle is simply not there. This thread is just a useless jab at same-sex relationships.

 

You realize I am not arguing for a mere toggle, but rather make your sexuality a part of the the character right?

 

your post goes a long way to prove the point that this content was best left out entirely for both preferences.

[crew_dawg]

I think the better question is: Who are we to push homosexuality onto our companions? Let's let them make their own choices since, after all, they were born that way.

[Comfterbilly]

I think the better question is: Who are we to push homosexuality onto our companions? Let's let them make their own choices since, after all, they were born that way.

 

↑ excellent

[SithCliff]

I just want to turn all flirts off.

[Elyons]

First, I would like to say I do support a toggle option to Same Gender storylines. This is for the simple reason that (and this was stated earlier) it provides more Immersion for those of us who are not in the LGBC.

 

Now, after reading several pages into this thread I have noticed a prominent and recurring theme surface. It seems to be that LGBC and its many supporters are pushing for there lifestyle to be accepted and tolerated at all extremes.

Alright, I understand this and I am fine with it. However what I find truly repulsive is that certain members of this same community WILL NOT tolerate a simple function that some of us would like to help reflect OUR lifestyles. In essence, these said members are doing the exact same thing they so radically oppose - Forcing a/there lifestyle upon us because they find our actions offensive.

 

My reply to this attitude is that if you wish to be respected and tolerated then you must treat others with the same respect and toleration you expect from them.

I understand that everyone is entitled to there own opinions and state of mine - so to emphasize that fact. EVERYONE is entitled to there own opinion and state of mind.

 

 

 

 

There is no disgrace being put forward toward anyone if a toggle option is released. It simply means that those who use it are playing the game they like.

So to finalize this, we will play the game the way we wish to play it, and you are completely free to play the game you wish to play it.

 

 

 

(To all the LGBC players who support a toggle option) You guys rock.

 

 

Thank you

[Raximillian]

First, I would like to say I do support a toggle option to Same Gender storylines. This is for the simple reason that (and this was stated earlier) it provides more Immersion for those of us who are not in the LGBC.

 

Now, after reading several pages into this thread I have noticed a prominent and recurring theme surface. It seems to be that LGBC and its many supporters are pushing for there lifestyle to be accepted and tolerated at all extremes.

Alright, I understand this and I am fine with it. However what I find truly repulsive is that certain members of this same community WILL NOT tolerate a simple function that some of us would like to help reflect OUR lifestyles. In essence, these said members are doing the exact same thing they so radically oppose - Forcing a/there lifestyle upon us because they find our actions offensive.

 

My reply to this attitude is that if you wish to be respected and tolerated then you must treat others with the same respect and toleration you expect from them.

I understand that everyone is entitled to there own opinions and state of mine - so to emphasize that fact. EVERYONE is entitled to there own opinion and state of mind.

 

 

 

 

There is no disgrace being put forward toward anyone if a toggle option is released. It simply means that those who use it are playing the game they like.

So to finalize this, we will play the game the way we wish to play it, and you are completely free to play the game you wish to play it.

 

 

 

(To all the LGBC players who support a toggle option) You guys rock.

 

 

Thank you

 

You already have an option to ignore all those [flirt] conversations:

 

Don't click on it.

 

Wasn't that hard? There is no need for additional toggles, and no-one is forcing you to choose one of those flirt options if you do not want to.

 

Unless you are a compulsory clicker or something and must click on all flirt options...

 

There should not be a toggle. As others have stated, it could deliver a certain message that we should avoid. And having the option there does not automatically force you to participate in it...

 

It's like saying since the game has PVP options, BW is FORCING PVP down my throat... That is not true...

Edited February 23, 2012 by Raximillian

[Pink_Saber]

First, I would like to say I do support a toggle option to Same Gender storylines. This is for the simple reason that (and this was stated earlier) it provides more Immersion for those of us who are not in the LGBC. \

 

This has got to be the most nonsensical thing I've read all week.

 

Nobody's forcing anything on anyone. They're just options on a dialog wheel. Like all the other options that come up in every conversation, you have the ability to not use them.

 

It's like saying that, if you're light-side, the availability of dark-side options in those wheel is "immersion-breaking." It's a crock, and you've got to realize that.

 

Frankly, this whole topic disturbs me quite a bit. Is this what the world's come down to? "Take away my ability to choose, because I can't handle reality and/or I don't trust myself to make decisions?" This whole thing is, in my view, a total non-issue and anyone with even a drop of common sense and the tiniest ability to take responsibility for his own actions would realize that all a toggle does is hide reality from that person. I really can't understand why someone would fight so hard for that.

[Elyons]

You already have an option to ignore all those [flirt] conversations:

 

Don't click on it.

 

Wasn't that hard? There is no need for additional toggles, and no-one is forcing you to choose one of those flirt options if you do not want to.

 

Unless you are a compulsory clicker or something and must click on all flirt options...

 

There should not be able toggle. As others have stated, it could deliver a certain message that we should avoid. And having the option there does not automatically force you to participate in it...

 

It's like saying since the game has PVP options, BW is FORCING PVP down my throat... That is not true...

 

Clearly you missed my main point -

Alright, I understand this and I am fine with it. However what I find truly repulsive is that certain members of this same community WILL NOT tolerate a simple function that some of us would like to help reflect OUR lifestyles. In essence, these said members are doing the exact same thing they so radically oppose - Forcing a/there lifestyle upon us because they find our actions offensive.

 

 

You are expecting toleration and acceptance - yet many of you sport the least amount of toleration I have seen on this thread.

Allow me to outline a specific topic in your reply. If I want to PvP, I can turn the toggle option on. If I don't want to then I can turn it off. Saying for me to simply not click the option means that your saying I should simply not attack other players when im flagged. However the other players will still be able to attack me.

[Subparhero]

When you create a character, you choose male or female.

 

Just add another step in character creation: gay, straight, or bisexual.

Then let the dialog options throughout the game reflect this.

 

/thread

Edited February 23, 2012 by Subparhero

[Elyons]

Nobody's forcing anything on anyone.

 

 

Thank you - I am then fully allowed to use a toggle option in game and im completely accepted for doing so.

 

 

 

 

Frankly, this whole topic disturbs me quite a bit. Is this what the world's come down to? "Take away my ability to choose, because I can't handle reality and/or I don't trust myself to make decisions?" This whole thing is, in my view, a total non-issue and anyone with even a drop of common sense and the tiniest ability to take responsibility for his own actions would realize that all a toggle does is hide reality from that person. I really can't understand why someone would fight so hard for that.

 

In reality, the thought of flirting with another male would never come to pass in my mind - if it does for you, then you have my support. But it does not for me, thus, I wish to not have the potential thought come up in my new favorite game. These options, are afterall, potential thoughts that your toon is "thinking."

Edited February 23, 2012 by Elyons