Cazzoccide Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Hello guys, i want to know how does AP feel compared to Pyro, i dont wanna know if it does more damage or else, i just wanna know which one has the funnier gameplay and feels more dynamic and intone with the class, i heared the damage is not too far from each other so i dont care about it. Edited February 11, 2012 by Cazzoccide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacity Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 When I played pyrotech, I was constantly overheating and felt useless half the time because of that. I also felt like I wasnt really getting 'new' abilities, since incendiary missile and thermal detonator basically replace two of our base class abilities. I felt like I had no extra utility, and there wasnt enough damage to counteract that. AP, on the other hand (which is my preferred DPS spec) feels very smooth - you have a set rotation, you dont have to rely very much on random procs, and you get three new abilities that dont just replace your basic class abilities. I also felt that Advanced Prototypes focused more on fire-type abilities than pyrotech does, which doesnt make a lot of sense but works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb-watson Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 It feels really comfortable, at least to me. You never overheat and the animations are fantastic. once it gets some buffs it'll be my preferred spec. I really don't care for pyrotech but the dps difference is noticeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 AP has more/better tools. grapple, stun, and interupt are all on shorter CDs. AP has more mobility and an honest to god anti-knockback CD (carry the ball and watch 3 sorcs try to knock you off the catwalk and fail, it feels good). AP can easily use ion gas cyclinder for more armor (which is not that useful), shields (slightly more useful), and guard (very useful) although you will be sacrificing some heat management to use ion. downside is that its damage is noticeably smaller than pyro. actually its damage is about on par with CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomisurabu Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 When I played pyrotech, I was constantly overheating and felt useless half the time because of that. I also felt like I wasnt really getting 'new' abilities, since incendiary missile and thermal detonator basically replace two of our base class abilities. I felt like I had no extra utility, and there wasnt enough damage to counteract that. AP, on the other hand (which is my preferred DPS spec) feels very smooth - you have a set rotation, you dont have to rely very much on random procs, and you get three new abilities that dont just replace your basic class abilities. I also felt that Advanced Prototypes focused more on fire-type abilities than pyrotech does, which doesnt make a lot of sense but works for me. I play Prototype and I find myself always looking down to see if Rail Shot proced. It feels epic tho especially with the blades...you feel like a Predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingShadow Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I eat pyros for breakfast and I troll turret/knockback professions with hydraulic overrides for luls. Immolate is superior to Thermal det (ele dmg, 1/2 heat cost), and it doesn't replace one of our useful ranged abilities. Edited February 12, 2012 by BlazingShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I eat pyros for breakfast and I troll turret/knockback professions with hydraulic overrides for luls. Immolate is superior to Thermal det (ele dmg, 1/2 heat cost), and it doesn't replace one of our useful ranged abilities. I wouldnt hold my breath on that last one :\ since pyros get about 30% surge if that detonator crits..... Edited February 12, 2012 by Assaultrooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazingShadow Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I wouldnt hold my breath on that last one :\ since pyros get about 30% surge if that detonator crits..... I'd totally agree with you if it weren't for the fact that Immolate ALSO recieves 30% crit damage increase. (prototype weapon systems gives 10% crit dmg increase per point, 3pts total)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapex Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Hello guys, i want to know how does AP feel compared to Pyro, i dont wanna know if it does more damage or else, i just wanna know which one has the funnier gameplay and feels more dynamic and intone with the class, i heared the damage is not too far from each other so i dont care about it. Pyro is like a mobile kiter. You do fight at melee sure but you still dip in and out of melee range all the time. Your goal is to keep people at bay just enough that they can't hit you unless you want them to. AP on the other hand is basically a Mandalorian melee gladiator, minus the vibrosword but plus crazy flamethrower usage and wrist blades. You melee with your bare fists, hardly even pulling out your pistol, and you have some solid utility that lets you control your enemies without being controlled yourself. Both are very proc dependent but AP's procs allow for some nasty burst damage (Immolate into Rocket Punch into auto-crit Rail Shot) whereas Pyro's procs focus on casting Rail Shot repeatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atemus Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 AP burst wont come close the Pyro Thermal Detonator + Railshot burst damage which can be done from 30 yard range for added kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morbidar Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 What sucks is the ap build "feels" better to me but the damage is so laughable compared to pyro. I pug mostly and I will occasionally break 400k as pyro but will maybe hit 300k as ap. I am not saying ap is all about damage due to their mobility but I miss the snare and td. It's nice not having to worry about heat and the interrupt shortened but at the end of the day if I'm speced for damage I want to be speced for DAMAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) What sucks is the ap build "feels" better to me but the damage is so laughable compared to pyro. I pug mostly and I will occasionally break 400k as pyro but will maybe hit 300k as ap. I am not saying ap is all about damage due to their mobility but I miss the snare and td. It's nice not having to worry about heat and the interrupt shortened but at the end of the day if I'm speced for damage I want to be speced for DAMAGE. This. But in addition to the damage difference, pyro provides range, energy rebounder and a snare - for pvp, those are some of the most potent tools available to us. Emphasis on range. Ptech is considered a melee class but that is not necessarily true if you're pyro. RP is the only skill within 4m and while Fb is only 10m, thats more than enough distance to remain outside the pocket. And of course, IM TD, RS and unload are 30m. Edited February 12, 2012 by Sowwy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excidium Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Feels like your abilities don't generate any heat. Edited February 12, 2012 by Excidium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianlord Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 With Pyro you do indeed have better burst dmg, but after that burst your pretty much a we blanket, useless until you dry out. With Adv Proto you have a smaller burst but entire time during burst you are building up and can keep steady dmg throughout a fight no mater how long it is. So Pyro your hoping you can burst target down before you get notices, while Adv Proto your going to be knocking targets down as you go along. Bottom 2 pics are when I'm running solo on voidstar. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd250/tianlord/PT-AdvP-1.jpg http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd250/tianlord/PT-AdvP-2.jpg Running in full champ combat tech gear with BM implants/ear piece. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhZMsrMRrfkosZb.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Why can't pyro sustain damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianlord Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Why can't pyro sustain damage? Their dmg just dips more after a burst. AdvP doesn't have that dip so they give a more sustained feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 By burst you mean RS+TD? If pyro was tied to a 1 min cool down then perhaps we can say it dips, but 15 seconds? That's a steady source of hurt. Besides, if we get lucky with RNG, that high damage continues. Adding a pistol shot every 3rd GCD or so is usually enough to prevent heating issues. And if we push hard on a healer, vent heat - pyro does reduce its cool down. I like AdvP, but the argument that pryo is all burst then bust is just not true. Its more heat sensitive than AdvP, but its nothing that can't be managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianlord Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Adding a pistol shot every 3rd GCD or so is usually enough to prevent heating issues. And if we push hard on a healer, vent heat - pyro does reduce its cool down. I like AdvP, but the argument that pryo is all burst then bust is just not true. Its more heat sensitive than AdvP, but its nothing that can't be managed. pistol shot = how much dmg in comparison to spells/attacks And doing a pistol shot every 3rd gcd = you wont be able to burst again once cds come back. Vent heat on 1 min 30 sec cd While its true if you manage your heat there is no problem, but in pvp its not alway perfect like pve where it can be managed easily. So a luck base heat dispersion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozzer Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I wanted to like AP when I tried it because all the quality of life stuff was there- Hitman is awesome, heat doesn't exist, grapple cooldown, superior mobility, it all looked great on paper. But the problem I had with AP was that the show seems to stop right there. Retractable blade is awesome and I prefer it in my hybrid builds over incendiary missile, but as the sole source of dot damage to pop railshot, its kind of a rough bet. There weren't a lot of situations where I was laying on the retractable blade and saying, "This was a better choice than an auto-ion rocket punch for what I needed to do." I still abuse the hell out of retractable blade for the 15 second dot component on voidstar and alderaan to hold objectives, but as the sole provider of the railshot light, I found it to be unable to perform. Then we arrive at the lack of a snare. pyro and shieldtech both get one, but AP doesn't... You have a 15% move buff instead and you can pop HO to catch up, but its better to save HO for closing gaps on ranged dps and running balls, and the movement speed is relative- if you lag or have an inferior machine or a bad connection, the server is going to have a lot more to say about where you are than your 15% talent will. When it comes to dependability, I much prefer slowing down the other guy over speeding myself up. Then we arrive at heat economy- the major mid tree talents are all about getting free procs, but because you're auto venting constantly, its not exactly the mid-tree powerhouse you get in other builds. getting a free railshot to pop mid tree hardly compares to what shield and pyro are getting mid tree- roots on grapple, scan, and rocket punch reset, rail pops that ignore armor and purge heat... it doesn't compare. You aren't getting anything back for your procs, you're just getting heat economy that you didn't need. I really wanted to enjoy playing advanced prototype because the quality of life is so good. It makes everything you hate go away, and everything you love better. It all sounds so good going in, but at the end of the day, it doesn't do anything for itself. You don't feel like you're making anything extra for playing AP. Its like dating a deadbeat couchpotato- its comfortable at first because you know they'll always be there when you call and you don't have a hard time scheduling them, but you eventually dump them and move on because they're not doing anything to better themselves and you get turned off by their lack of ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creatineted Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Honestly if you try and kill me as adv prototype I will absolutely dominate you I have never lost to one not even close nothing like 5k TD and railshot crits back to back ..GG sir:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 pistol shot = how much dmg in comparison to spells/attacks And doing a pistol shot every 3rd gcd = you wont be able to burst again once cds come back. Vent heat on 1 min 30 sec cd While its true if you manage your heat there is no problem, but in pvp its not alway perfect like pve where it can be managed easily. So a luck base heat dispersion Look man, i like AdvP - it has great tools and a fun style. I want it to work, but it doesn't. If it gets buffed, I'd spec into it in a hearbeat, but until then pyro is far and away the superior tree. If you can tolerate Protos shortcomings, more power to you. But don't expect any but a few to agree with you - especially pvpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kintrik Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 AdvP only needs a few tweaks to make it work. Reduce Retractable Blade DOT duration to 6-9s, add 6s CD, increase damage. Make Flame Barrage make the next Rocket Punch deal elemental damage instead of kinetic, remove free aspect. Add channel reduction to Prototype Flame Thrower, like each stack reduces the channel duration by .25 seconds. (total of about 40% reduction) Increase Charged Gauntlet chance to 35%. Also does anyone get any notification like the laughing for your Flame Barrage or Charged Gauntlet procs, cause I sure don't notice them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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