Please nerf Sorc/consular

[DarthMikesta]

Using force speed with no bubble still guarnatees 2-3 ticks of fire for going through it. It doesn't make them a non-issue. It's also vulerable to knockbacks, slows, stuns, and snares, which leap is not.

 

Pros and cons. Both classes are balanced.

 

um... they can just bubble... thus making the ticks a non issue. and like I said, leap requires someone to leap to, force speed does not. I agree that there are pro's and cons, but the pros of force speed far outweigh the cons. that isn't balance.

[DarthMikesta]

A pug with just two sages just won against a group with six inquisitors in Alderaan. Score was at least 200 -0. I can see Alderaan isn't Huttball, but most classes can either pull, root, knockback or stun.

 

I don't see a problem. Unless, you either don't look at your skills or don't team up?

 

alderaan is perfectly fine imo. The only problem as far as sorcs/sages go is huttball as i've mentioned

[ironmb]

This is a QQ/nerd rage post, i want them nerfed!

they got: insta CC, slow, interrupts, speed, bubble, heals and mega dmg by channel spells and they can pull people to them, Ever tried to win vs 5-6 team sorcs in Huttball ? They are top dps and medium to top healers at the same time !! every1 i know is rolling a sorc please NERF THEM TO PIECES !!!!!!

 

I'd roll shadow/assassin in a heart beat. You're just another newb who doesn't know how to interrupt their cast.

[LoL-K-Noob]

A starting class that doesn't get a talent tree should be nerfed? Anybody know the secret behind this so called OP consular?

[Grubfist]

um... they can just bubble... thus making the ticks a non issue. and like I said, leap requires someone to leap to, force speed does not. I agree that there are pro's and cons, but the pros of force speed far outweigh the cons. that isn't balance.

 

The bubble absorbs part of 1 tick, and only sages can do it, not all consulars.

 

And no they do not, the only time Force Speed is better is if your team literally has no-one between the center of the map and your goal line, which frequently happens when bad teams try too hard to get a goal and end up entirely on the enemy side.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Grubfist

[Redmarx]

This is a QQ/nerd rage post, i want them nerfed!

they got: insta CC, slow, interrupts, speed, bubble, heals and mega dmg by channel spells and they can pull people to them, Ever tried to win vs 5-6 team sorcs in Huttball ? They are top dps and medium to top healers at the same time !! every1 i know is rolling a sorc please NERF THEM TO PIECES !!!!!!

 

 

You're just a very bad player who doesn't understand PVP and is not good at it.

 

Don't let it stop you from making a fool of yourself on forums though.

[DarthMikesta]

The bubble absorbs part of 1 tick, and only sages can do it, not all consulars.

 

And no they do not, the only time Force Speed is better is if your team literally has no-one between the center of the map and your goal line, which frequently happens when bad teams try too hard to get a goal and end up entirely on the enemy side.

 

1.) I never said anything about consulars. This thread is about sorcs/sages if im not mistaken.

 

2.) I never said anything about force speed being better, i was saying that the cons of force speed are far outweighed by the pros. Sure they can be cc'ed. but the fact that they can easily bypass hazards and use speed to get out of LOS (thus bypassing cc abilities) are pros that outweigh the one con of being cc-able. and you still havent even mentioned the fact that leap/charge need someone to leap/charge to.

 

I'm not calling sorcs/sages OP, nor am I saying they should be nerfed. But they shouldn't be able to use the speed buff with the ball period. It dumbs down the game, and makes being tactical worthless when you can just have your sorc grab the ball, and force speed through hazards and out of LOS to score.

 

Take 2 teams, equally geared and equally skills, and lets say 1 team has a sorc/sage and the other doesn't. Which team is more likely to win?

[Olarid]

Maybe they are just fun to play!

 

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/95920/module_gallery/original/369413.jpg

 

 

http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/95920/module_gallery/original/369414.jpg

[Piriste]

yep agree, Nerf, anyone disagreeing has already rerolled as Sorc.

 

Hybrid spec has to go. NOW.

[Narat]

Nerf perhaps some aspects of the sorcerer class but the real issue is not the one or 2 that appear in the match its the 6 or more that appear in the matches. You can nerf them yes but to be fair you have to nerf both factions. It would be better to argue that balanced teams would be a better goal to strive for. Since this is a random arrangement of players block or cap numbers of classes. I would be happier seeing that or perhaps sort the premades out of the random groups or better yet put only battlemasters against other battlemaster groups.

 

The issues are not class 1 v 1 combat the issue is 7 sorcerers against a balanced class group.

[Fidasaind]

mega dmg by channel spells

 

I agree with our high utility but laugh at this. TK Throw usually hits in the range of 350-450 per tic. Against ungeared people if I use an adrenal and relic I MAY get crits of 900-1100. It basically hits as hard in 3s as Tracer Missle hits in 1.5s. The real advantage is that it procs PoM which allows you to instantly cast some other abilities. But the channeled ability itself is low damage for a dps class. And since it is channeled it is not like we can cast that while spamming other abilities.

 

In fact the delve for my level 50, fully geared (champ/bm gear), battlemaster sage who is balance spec's TK throw delves for only couple hundred damage (over the entire duration) higher than my level 25 commando's grav round when he is bolstered to level 49.

 

Again, I agree that the real power of the class is in our utility and our ability to heal as a dps spec or dps as a heal spec. But "mega dmg"? Really? If you want mega damage, play a commando. If you want to destroy sage/sorc then play a marauder/sentinel.

[Grubfist]

1.) I never said anything about consulars. This thread is about sorcs/sages if im not mistaken.

 

2.) I never said anything about force speed being better, i was saying that the cons of force speed are far outweighed by the pros. Sure they can be cc'ed. but the fact that they can easily bypass hazards and use speed to get out of LOS (thus bypassing cc abilities) are pros that outweigh the one con of being cc-able. and you still havent even mentioned the fact that leap/charge need someone to leap/charge to.

 

I'm not calling sorcs/sages OP, nor am I saying they should be nerfed. But they shouldn't be able to use the speed buff with the ball period. It dumbs down the game, and makes being tactical worthless when you can just have your sorc grab the ball, and force speed through hazards and out of LOS to score.

 

Take 2 teams, equally geared and equally skills, and lets say 1 team has a sorc/sage and the other doesn't. Which team is more likely to win?

 

The team that doesn't screw up as much.

 

Restricting the use of an ability for a certain situation is a nerf to that ability, albeit a situational nerf. Saying that this one ability should be restricted when others shouldn't says it's more powerful. By asking that this one ability be restricted (and not all utility abilities that assist scoring) is INDEED saying it's better. Unless you think sages should be worse than other classes, but I doubt you intend that.

 

If the ability is not better than others' abilities in the same situation, why would you recommend restricting only one such ability?

[Diphtheria]

This is a QQ/nerd rage post, i want them nerfed!

they got: insta CC, slow, interrupts, speed, bubble, heals and mega dmg by channel spells and they can pull people to them, Ever tried to win vs 5-6 team sorcs in Huttball ? They are top dps and medium to top healers at the same time !! every1 i know is rolling a sorc please NERF THEM TO PIECES !!!!!!

 

While I may not agree with the deliver of this message I do agree that Sorcs need to be brought in line. Anyone reasonable person playing a Sorc has told me they agree that they need to be nerfed. Playing against sorcs when you are not one is also a great way to see that they have too much access to survivablity, utility, and damage built into one class at one time.

 

I am not arguing to ruin the class but survivability should be directly inverse to the amount of damage output a class can do - or close to it.

 

Love the game, keep tweaking, keep fixing the frustrating bugs like not getting credit for the daily when you win a warzone =).

[RG_jhanlec]

One spec has insta-CC.

 

The interrupt is on a 12-second cooldown. That is the longest cooldown timer of all classes that have an interrupt.

 

Force Speed is usually your only defense against melee in every spec.

 

Bubble abosrbs about 3k damage. That's perfectly fair for having light armor. No bubble has ever absorbed more than 4k.

 

They don't have any acceptable heals whatsoever unless they are specced deep into the healing tree. Beyond that, they can top people off out of combat and that's about it.

 

Only one hybridized spec that specifically talents for nothing but the channel spell has "mega dmg with a channel".

 

The pull friendly to them has a 1-minute cooldown. Every hostile grapple/force pull is a much shorter cooldown. They don't have stealth. Grip them down before they can grip their carrier up. Plan ahead. Zerging the ball carrier is idiotic.

 

Yes, I've tried winning a huttball against a team with 5-6 sorcs AND one with 5-6 sages. Won both of them by passing.

 

They are good damagers when left alone. They are good healers when left alone. They can't deal with pressure as well as other ranged or as merc/commando healers.

 

Most of their healing scores are inflated because bubbles count as healing.

 

Why would you want any class "nerfed to pieces"? That's the opposite of balance. You want them brought in line with others.

 

I dont play one, but I feel this sums it up pretty well actually. Rock, paper, scissors became apparent to me when I got my second high level character and Sages/Sorcs arent so bad. Mercs/commandos aren't either... this is all depending on WZ, area layout and where you are fighting in it. If you are in the middle of the field and 2-3 ranged are all over, you can't LoS them all and you're gonna die, expect it...

 

Aside from that, as a immortal jugg I was really confused how sorc/sage, merc/comm could root/cc nonstop and kill me in seconds half the time. Instant casts that seem to crit for more than my biggest skills, plus long cast that hit like a truck...

 

Now that I have a high level mara they are usually cake. My disrupt is talented to every 6 seconds so its easier to deal with them. Plus with DoTs going off non-stop and reduced CD on charge I find its easier to deal with roots and keep damage going.

 

Rock/paper/scissors and situational awareness are the biggest issues.

 

I still think roots should add to resolve even if a small amount, but overall it seems OK.

 

MY BIGGEST BEEF, is that in hutball these classes just do the AoE knock back non-stop and its crazy annoying as melee. I spend probably half the time in a match running out of the pit or acid/fire because of this. Worst is when there are several of them and they chain knock back so if you somehow missed the first one, or force charged back up, you get sent right back down again... lol.

Edited February 11, 2012 by RG_jhanlec

[Grubfist]

While I may not agree with the deliver of this message I do agree that Sorcs need to be brought in line. Anyone reasonable person playing a Sorc has told me they agree that they need to be nerfed. Playing against sorcs when you are not one is also a great way to see that they have too much access to survivablity, utility, and damage built into one class at one time.

 

And anyone agreeing with you is reasonable. Circular logic ftw. Discount opinions of people who disagree with you.

 

Replace "class" with "spec"

 

Only hybrid dps specs are overpowered, individually, each tree is fine.

[Kabaal]

I don't know if any of you quite realise just how boring a sorc is to play, it was my first alt to get to 50 and i couldn't have been happier than when it hit that level. Then i could shelf it. Well played Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight were pretty much the only classes i would have to work against to win, many a time i would be ripped a new one by a well played marauder for example but other classes were pretty much a joke, even operatives who got the jump.

[DarthMikesta]

The team that doesn't screw up as much.

 

Restricting the use of an ability for a certain situation is a nerf to that ability, albeit a situational nerf. Saying that this one ability should be restricted when others shouldn't says it's more powerful. By asking that this one ability be restricted (and not all utility abilities that assist scoring) is INDEED saying it's better. Unless you think sages should be worse than other classes, but I doubt you intend that.

 

If the ability is not better than others' abilities in the same situation, why would you recommend restricting only one such ability?

 

The team that does't screw up as much? thats a cop out and you know it. you just don't want to answer the question because you know the team with the sorc will win.I said equal skill, so lets assume that no team screws up more than the other. Whats your answer now?

 

Restricting the use of an ability is NOT a nerf in he standard definition of nerf, since it doesn't change the effectiveness of the skill.

 

And I never made the comparison, nor intended to make the comparison between charge/leap and force speed. YOU did. I DO think its better for running the ball in huttball, but I never brought up that claim when i was talking about force run, and frankly its irrelevant, since we aren't even talking about charge/leap (besides the fact that you keep bringing it up). and you STILL are ignoring the fact that you need someone to leap/charge to, while sorcs/sages can ALWAYS use force speed to do things like bypassing hazards

 

I really don't understand what you are arguing. Are you saying that force speed ISN'T the best ball running ability? If so then you are disagreeing with pretty much everyone else.

[Jimdor]

It's not the class that needs to be nerfed. The class itself is fine. It's the way the talent trees are designed. If you were to stick to 1 talent tree, you would be in line with the rest of the game. It's the fact that all the lower talents in the 3 trees sync up so well. I don't mind people wanting to spec in a couple trees, as long as the mixing of the trees doesn't overpower your class.

 

The devs must be aware of this by now. Perhaps they're working on a fix for this, perhaps not. As it is, everybody and their dog has rolled sorcs/sages (haven't seen as many sages though) and are facerolling people. That's why you see so many of them in WZ's. i can't count the number of times i've seen 6/8 sorcs on a team.

 

I think a cap on the number of a single class on a team would help. Would suck for all the sorcs that would be trading warzone queues, but that's what you get for rolling a FOTM class. I personally stopped playing my sorc (heal specced, not hybrid) and my merc (pyro specced, not arsenal) because of the high number of them in the WZ's. I rerolled a gunslinger, because they are under-represented.

 

So, don't nerf the class, nerf the spec. Far too much utility/damage/healing/survivability is available to mix together in the lower portions of the trees.

[Daecollo]

How about you help classes "Gunslinger/Sniper" instead of nerfing classes.

 

Fix and Redo the Talents/Abilities for Gunslinger/Sniper, remove "MUST BE IN COVER", Up the damage of abilities, make the talents funner.

 

 

Give Gunslinger a tree that improves his survivability, then add 2 ways to deal damage.

 

Survivablity tree could give them extra armor/movement speed/damage reduction, add shots that reduce the targets damage to others and maybe a low cooldown self heal.

 

Damage Tree for NOT being in Cover.

 

 

 

Gunslingers/Snipers are honestly OP in PVE, but in PvP they are LOL.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Daecollo

[Madu]

It's not the class that needs to be nerfed. The class itself is fine. It's the way the talent trees are designed. If you were to stick to 1 talent tree, you would be in line with the rest of the game. It's the fact that all the lower talents in the 3 trees sync up so well. I don't mind people wanting to spec in a couple trees, as long as the mixing of the trees doesn't overpower your class.

 

The devs must be aware of this by now. Perhaps they're working on a fix for this, perhaps not. As it is, everybody and their dog has rolled sorcs/sages (haven't seen as many sages though) and are facerolling people. That's why you see so many of them in WZ's. i can't count the number of times i've seen 6/8 sorcs on a team.

 

I think a cap on the number of a single class on a team would help. Would suck for all the sorcs that would be trading warzone queues, but that's what you get for rolling a FOTM class. I personally stopped playing my sorc (heal specced, not hybrid) and my merc (pyro specced, not arsenal) because of the high number of them in the WZ's. I rerolled a gunslinger, because they are under-represented.

 

So, don't nerf the class, nerf the spec. Far too much utility/damage/healing/survivability is available to mix together in the lower portions of the trees.

 

I couldn't agree more!

[lexiekaboom]

or..... you could roll a stealth class, get in behind them, and take them down without really taking any damage.

 

Video?

 

Didn't think so

[JediJudoChopx]

This is sad and pathetic. If they do nerf something for consular's. I hope it's only in PVP. Don't ruin my Sage PVE experience just because some PVP noobs can't figure out how to destroy me. As much as I Can kick ***. I get my own *** kicked plenty in PVP. (By all classes). The person on the controls is what counts. QQ! Edited April 27, 2012 by JediJudoChopx

[PloGreen]

This is sad and pathetic. If they do nerf something for consular's. I hope it's only in PVP. Don't ruin my Sage PVE experience just because some PVP noobs can't figure out how to destroy me. As much as I Can kick ***. I get my own *** kicked plenty in PVP. (By all classes). The person on the controls is what counts. QQ!

 

This is an old thread mate.

[Odahviin]

It would be interesting to know how many people defending the sorc / consular are still complaining about the mara / sent.

[---Bane---]

My main is a battlemaster sorc specced hybrid lightning/madness.

 

Have several alts, namely a 45 Jugg, 41 marauder, and a 27 powertech.

 

Done a lot of PvP on my Jugg and Sorc and I'll tell ya right now that Sorcs aren't gods like you think.

 

------------

 

The key to beating a sorc is PRESSURE. Pressure pressure pressure. You have to relentlessly attack a sorc. If he knocks you back, charge back at him. Snare him or slow him down. If he force speeds away, charge him again. Or break line of sight if he tries to attack you at range until you can charge him again.

 

Sorcs are going to panic if you pressure them, especially in melee range.

 

People mistakenly think Sorcs are OP and have all this utility but fail to realize that no single sorc has every utility they claim. Each spec has its own strengths and weaknesses, but the common denominator to beating every sorc is to apply pressure to him and never leave him unattacked.

 

Insta-CC has to be specced for in the madness tree. So if a healer has it, the healer doesn't have a strong bubble (in the lightning tree). If the sorc is specced to have a rooting DoT (Creeping Terror) then they don't have chain lightning or any good healing.

 

If the Sorc has massive dps channeled and chain lightning, theyll have good burst dps but no sustained dps, no heals, and less crowd control.

 

If the sorc has all this lightning utility and roots, then he has no unlimited force lightning and very low sustained dps.

 

-----------

 

The best part about the sorc class is the versatility. It is one of the few classes in the game where all three talent trees are viable for SOMETHING and where you can mix and match and get some unique skills (at the cost of others, especially high up in the trees). Hybrid specs work well for sorcs but they suffer from the "jack of all trades, master of none". My spec drains the crap out of my mana, and makes my DPS very dependent on procs. But my AoE damage is fantastic.

 

Playing as a Jugg and playing against a Jugg, I know that if I put pressure on the sorc, he's gonna panic. If I have melee classes on me, I stop DPS and go into survival mode. You've already neutralized the sorc DPS, and now he's running away or trying to stop you. Especially in warzones, you've done your job. Even if you can't kill him, he's blown all his cooldowns to escape and is probably low in health and needs to heal.

 

Seriously, I wish people would play the class and see that yeah, they're very fun and have a lot of neat tricks -- but are squishy as hell, and really are true glass cannons.

 

Better yet, they are ice cannons. Put the heat on them and they'll melt right in front of ya.

 

Try it.

 

I'm right there with ya. I play a Sorc, Jug, and a Sniper. And Sorc is by far the hardest class to play. It's great for healing and AOE which is what a support class does, but unless you're heavily DPS specced where you can put out more damage than your opponent, 1v1's are damn near impossible. The reason being is A. the amount of channeled/timed abilities and B. The amount of Disrupts that each class has. The only thing a Sorc has defensively outside of the bubble and sprint are healing spells. If you have to cast healing spells to keep yourself alive, You're already dead; you just don't know it yet (unless maybe you're healing specced). Once you go defensive, chances are you're not going back to offensive; and even if you do get to that point (probably because you are in fact healing specced), you'll probably lack the mana/dps to do anything offensively except hope someone else comes in to rescue you. Pushback and disrupts make going defensive and fighting in 1v1's impossible. Low armor rating + Low health + Pushbacks/disruptions? Also keep in mind that people tend to target Sorc's sooner than other classes because of their High AOE DPS and Healing Ability; As well as being pretty weak defensively.

Edited April 27, 2012 by ---Bane---