Madness or Deception? PVP

[YuandaZhu]

I know there are quite a few topics about this but I just wanted to share my vision on this matter. I've always been Deception and always loved it. Have switched to Madness 3 times now and every time I respecced back to Deception the very same day. This choice is based on personal preference, though. With Madness I always do way more damage then Deception (every warzone at least 300K-400K which is easily obtainable, whereas Deception would get me to 250K if I'm lucky and have healers, but usually only around 200K)

 

Highest crit in Madness, with Death Field, is 3.4K popping both Recklessness and the crit/surge champion trinket.

Highest crit in Deception, with Assassinate, was exactly 5K without popping anything. So maybe that was on a player with no expertise and low defense, but still 5K was the damage . Shock will crit for 4k, Discharge 4.5k and Voltaic Slash gets me 2.4k if both hits crit. You will absolutely never see those numbers as Madness. You might do more damage per second, but trust me, you ain't killing no healers 1on1!!

 

We might be squishy as Deception, but it's not like speccing Madness will change ANYTHING about that. The dot-heals are still way too small in my opinion. I see a 257 heal popping every few seconds if I dot enough targets. It never saved my life even once! And that's with 30% (35% with imp agent buff) crit chance.

 

Madness can be nice though, for snaring people 30m range with Creeping Terror, always getting the 300k dmg Medal, attempting to dot everyone in range so they can't plant bombs/activate turrets and ofcourse the instant whirlwind is something we'd all like to have

 

However, I am 100% sure I will never spec Madness again (unless a patch changes many things). It just doesn't feel good to me. With Deception I have so much burst it's no problem killing most classes 1on1. Healers are usually screwed when I start whacking them and no1 comes interfering. Force regen is no problem either with Blackout having only a 45 sec cooldown. Also, many nice pvp talents are located in the Deception tree; Obfuscation, Darkswell, Avoidance, Entropic Field, Fade, Static Cling (1 point in this one is enough, 2 would not be a waste though) and I'm not going to continue playing without those babies

 

People can say whatever they want about Madness being the superior spec for PVP right now, but I for one will not listen to you! It just comes down to personal preference/play style. I'll probably go Darkness before I try out Madness again ^^

 

If anyone's interested here's my Deception spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MczZRGbRkGRbtzZc.1

Yes I know only 1 point in Duplicity. Trust me, even with 10% chance you will get that proc every 10 seconds as Deception. More points just increase chance nothing else. Rather get Insulation instead Entropic Field is something you might wanna skip if you really need the points, but I sure as hell don't I love it!

 

I am full champion by the way, only valor rank 50 now so BM gear will still take me a week or 2..

[Silcan]

Well, reading ur post. U will never play madnes.

 

What do you want?

 

A cookie?

[YuandaZhu]

You spend the time reading my entire post and you come up with that reply?

 

You actually deserve a cookie -_-

[FinDevil]

Only pvp build i will ever run is the tank one, and i have never lost 1 vs 1 with anyone on my server and im not even full champ gear yet. Fought many battlemaster etc.. nothing come even close to tanking spec.. in warzones maybe you get good on the scorecard, but i would rather take tank on my team than madness or the other.

 

Fact is nubs run dps specs.. Can you do 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 with those specs? No you cannot, if you disagree ****.

[Cruoris]

Only pvp build i will ever run is the tank one, and i have never lost 1 vs 1 with anyone on my server and im not even full champ gear yet. Fought many battlemaster etc.. nothing come even close to tanking spec.. in warzones maybe you get good on the scorecard, but i would rather take tank on my team than madness or the other.

 

Fact is nubs run dps specs.. Can you do 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 with those specs? No you cannot, if you disagree ****.

 

Tank specs are for chumps with no skill who can't watch their position and not die to ranged.

[FinDevil]

I think you are not qualified to post in this thread. When you have skilled opponents it's not about position.

 

EDIT: Also, have you ever taken down 4 people àt same level as dps alone? I have and im tank.

Edited February 10, 2012 by FinDevil

[Aerithel]

Only pvp build i will ever run is the tank one, and i have never lost 1 vs 1 with anyone on my server and im not even full champ gear yet. Fought many battlemaster etc.. nothing come even close to tanking spec.. in warzones maybe you get good on the scorecard, but i would rather take tank on my team than madness or the other.

 

Fact is nubs run dps specs.. Can you do 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 with those specs? No you cannot, if you disagree ****.

 

Tank specs are for chumps with no skill who can't watch their position and not die to ranged.

 

So... what does it say about those 3 or 4 folks who couldn't take down the FinDevil's tank?

[insendial]

So... what does it say about those 3 or 4 folks who couldn't take down the FinDevil's tank?

 

They suck?

[remorze]

each spec has it own roles.

 

Deception - Great burst n cc - kills healers and squishy dps very fast!

 

Darkness - outlast...

 

Madness - Does good damage vs all (internal damage) but not as bursty

(will eat through any tank besides assassin tank)

[KavikaDestroyer]

I have to know how Deception Spec doesn't get absolutely blown apart in pvp. I used to run Deception spec while in dark charge but now that you have to be in surging...How do you survive?

[remorze]

you dont go toe to toe with dps unless u know u can kill them and kill them fast. otherwise u should be ******** on healers not trying to fight a jugg or something 1v1

[hikotai]

There are a lot of misinformed people around.

 

Firstly, the reason Deception is considered the "worst" is because, comparatively, it lacks utility. Its fine as a dps spec, but it offers little to any other task. It's not so much of an issue of being "bad" just "limited". And limited isn't preferable for most. That said, it's still quite damaging and can certainly get kills if you don't catch too much attention. (It's called "deception" for a reason).

 

Secondly, being a Darkness assassin isn't just about "outlasting" anyone; unless you're 100% tank geared, but I doubt any serious PvP Dark sin would be. Its about bringing utility and survivability for the purpose of taking objectives or preventing them. If you're any good at reading the intentions of your enemy, Darkness is a great spec to counter and punish them. Or even just to stall for time when outnumbered near an objective.

[Coronaaa]

Only pvp build i will ever run is the tank one, and i have never lost 1 vs 1 with anyone on my server and im not even full champ gear yet. Fought many battlemaster etc.. nothing come even close to tanking spec.. in warzones maybe you get good on the scorecard, but i would rather take tank on my team than madness or the other.

 

Fact is nubs run dps specs.. Can you do 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 with those specs? No you cannot, if you disagree ****.

 

 

Pretty this idiot might be fully retarded. He cannot 1v4 anyone and I'm sure most people could destroy him in a 1v1. His attitude already points out his ability and I would ignore anything he says.

 

Survivability in deception is about avoiding being targeted and CC'ing correctly. On my op if i see a voltaic slash i go and 1 hit that assassin. Deception is just not viable in any real fight with 3-4 people and in my OPINION I would just chuck it until your full BM.

 

Madness or a hybrid Darkness are just to strong to ignore and the DoT heals are actually fairly significant especially with DF. People rage hard when they can't *********** killing you cause your dot kiting at like 3%. Throw deception away for now man. Don't let that once in a blue moon execute crit fool you that its good.

[MatthewHorner]

I have to know how Deception Spec doesn't get absolutely blown apart in pvp. I used to run Deception spec while in dark charge but now that you have to be in surging...How do you survive?

 

Even before this patch I ran with surging. Using dark charge isn't a requirement for Deception, I would take Surging over Dark any day imo. Also having a healer and a tank on your team makes me, the dps, a key player for destroying people in their path. As a sin, you do one hell of a job. It may not be fantastic, but its not terribad.

Edited February 11, 2012 by MatthewHorner

[Hauvarn]

I think you are not qualified to post in this thread. When you have skilled opponents it's not about position.

 

EDIT: Also, have you ever taken down 4 people àt same level as dps alone? I have and im tank.

 

I killed 3 people as madness spec

[Kornaker]

i think too that he survive by managing his cooldown and not going on fight without having vanish or stim nearly up.

Deception spec has nothing better to survive.

Deception spec is about burst, not about survability.

 

Madness spec is about leeching life for survivability, allways burst and a madness sin is nearly dead.

[Shalashasa]

oh no not another deception noob.

 

One thing I have noticed over the years in gaming is there are hardcore competitive players and then there are players that just play to have fun casually.

 

The mindset of these players are very different.

 

For hardcore players loosing isnt an option

casual players dont care if they loose as long as they had fun loosing.

 

Hardcore players play Darkness or Madness spec because its necessary for a win. Its the most proficient and its the best specs for pvp regardless of your 'preference'

 

Casual players dont mind playing Deception because they want to just have fun.

 

Anyways have fun with your deception. real PVP players will stick to the pvp specs.

[Nocorras]

Madness can drop people, you just have to know how to use your force and not drain yourself. The strength of madness is not to dot everything in sight and pad numbers. Edited February 11, 2012 by Nocorras

[Crueger]

oh no not another deception noob.

 

One thing I have noticed over the years in gaming is there are hardcore competitive players and then there are players that just play to have fun casually.

 

The mindset of these players are very different.

 

For hardcore players loosing isnt an option

casual players dont care if they loose as long as they had fun loosing.

 

Hardcore players play Darkness or Madness spec because its necessary for a win. Its the most proficient and its the best specs for pvp regardless of your 'preference'

 

Casual players dont mind playing Deception because they want to just have fun.

 

Anyways have fun with your deception. real PVP players will stick to the pvp specs.

 

i lol'd.

[insendial]

i lol'd.

 

As did I! x)

[Khajin_Mora]

deception works fine if you know how to play it well.

[Alenorah]

That Shalaska kid exploited Illum and nerdburgered Warzones for a high valor rank and now comes into EVERY deception post to spread his anit-deception **** like it's gospel.

 

****, nobody cares.

 

I can not wait for rateds and arena to come out so you ******* can see how useless both darkness and madness specs actually are.

 

Darkness + madness = classic BG hero specs, useless for anything else in PvP.

 

Example - 3v3, your sage healer CC's one target

 

Shalaska, the all mighty darkness assassin runs in " DERP DISCHARGE, OR WITHER... OOPS I BROKE YOUR CC, BUT IM ALIVE CUZ IM DARKNESS SO ITS ALL GOOD"

 

Either that scenario or he isn't as clueless as that and notices a CC 'd target, "DERP, CC, CANT USE ANYTHING USEFUL UNTIL IT RUNS OUT, SO ILL JUST SIT HERE AND TAUNT AND DO LESS DAMAGE THAN A LVL 10 OPERATIVE".

 

While if you were Deception in that situation, you and your group could fully utilize the situation. Seeing as it is now 2v3, you are taking a great deal less damage, and seeing as you don't actually need to AoE people to be useful, you will rip apart one target before the other group actually realises whats going on.

 

 

Disagree with me? Enjoy playing your darkness or madness spec. It'll be like a prot warrior with a resto druid playing 2s in WoW; sure the disc priest rogue combo they might fight cant survive as good as you, but who needs it when the prot warrior does so little damage they will never be a threat.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Alenorah

[Zoobi]

oh no not another deception noob.

 

One thing I have noticed over the years in gaming is there are hardcore competitive players and then there are players that just play to have fun casually.

 

The mindset of these players are very different.

 

For hardcore players loosing isnt an option

casual players dont care if they loose as long as they had fun loosing.

 

Hardcore players play Darkness or Madness spec because its necessary for a win. Its the most proficient and its the best specs for pvp regardless of your 'preference'

 

Casual players dont mind playing Deception because they want to just have fun.

 

Anyways have fun with your deception. real PVP players will stick to the pvp specs.

 

Hows it feel to play a non-competitive game competitively? These kinds of mindsets make me laugh.

 

Pro-tip, competitive games usually involve actual tournaments, and they usually involve games where you can't have an edge(gear) just for playing longer than someone else.

 

You don't know what competitive gaming is.

[Latrodectus]

That Shalaska kid exploited Illum and nerdburgered Warzones for a high valor rank and now comes into EVERY deception post to spread his anit-deception **** like it's gospel.

 

****, nobody cares.

 

I can not wait for rateds and arena to come out so you ******* can see how useless both darkness and madness specs actually are.

 

Darkness + madness = classic BG hero specs, useless for anything else in PvP.

 

Example - 3v3, your sage healer CC's one target

 

Shalaska, the all mighty darkness assassin runs in " DERP DISCHARGE, OR WITHER... OOPS I BROKE YOUR CC, BUT IM ALIVE CUZ IM DARKNESS SO ITS ALL GOOD"

 

Either that scenario or he isn't as clueless as that and notices a CC 'd target, "DERP, CC, CANT USE ANYTHING USEFUL UNTIL IT RUNS OUT, SO ILL JUST SIT HERE AND TAUNT AND DO LESS DAMAGE THAN A LVL 10 OPERATIVE".

 

While if you were Deception in that situation, you and your group could fully utilize the situation. Seeing as it is now 2v3, you are taking a great deal less damage, and seeing as you don't actually need to AoE people to be useful, you will rip apart one target before the other group actually realises whats going on.

 

 

Disagree with me? Enjoy playing your darkness or madness spec. It'll be like a prot warrior with a resto druid playing 2s in WoW; sure the disc priest rogue combo they might fight cant survive as good as you, but who needs it when the prot warrior does so little damage they will never be a threat.

 

What makes you think that they will ever add something as boring as arenas to SWTOR? Seriously, that's not the pinnacle of PvP, it's even more redundant than Warzones. Go back to WoW if you want that boring arena ****.

[Alenorah]

So people hate illum, arena, warzones.

 

What do you want, somewhere you can duel all day and increase the size of your epene?