What is so great about open world pvp?

[Spifnar]

OWPvP comes in several flavors:

 

Fighting over levelling spots and gathering nodes (single player, group or guild sized engagement)

 

Roaming group v group combat

 

Fighting over objectives like keeps, etc.

 

The problem with OWPvP is that it dies a harsh death to zerging or skill imbalance. While a 3-way war helps, that doesn't mean you still won't have the underpop faction camped at their base/gate

 

Also, it's tough to put rewards on OWPvP without people immediately moving on to kill-trading

 

DAoC had a wonderful setup and culture:

 

Bard/minstrel/skald speed being group only kept zerging down

 

The realm rank reward system required killing a person to get anything at all

 

Keeps and relics meant something (5% buff to PvE and PvP was important, because early on levelling was tough)

 

No BG/WZs. Because it's a *GIVEN* that if people could get levelled/geared up in a WZ that gives non-stop action, 95% will

 

Also people tend to forget the boredom of OWPvP. The long runs/port times to get back into the fight. Running around and not finding anyone. Taking an enemy keep and not getting a response. Etc

[Razot]

These replies are literally making me nauseous!!

 

I just thought that only the newer generations music sucked.. Now i see, its you people that suck!

 

Edited February 10, 2012 by Razot

[Drakks]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

If WoWkids played vanilla, they would. The roaming 5-mans in BRM, EPL, WPL, Kargath Pass, Zeppelins, etc... amazing. So fun.

 

 

It was fun for a while, mostly because there was nothing else to do at that time -- it got mixed in with raiding or other stuff you were doing as just part of the routine. The BGs were far more entertaining over a longer period of time.. and, personally, I think far more fun on the larger pop servers when it was just that server community playing against each other.

 

People romanticize the weirdest stuff -- none of the areas listed are dramatically different than Ilum in and of themselves. The difference was that there was nothing to drive being in one large group.. like.. say.. a daily quest that requires X number of kills, which can be shared across a raid if you do anything to contribute.

[Sykologist]

No I don't. Explain it to me.

 

So I'm assuming you're a WoW kid with that response.

 

And I'm going to naturally assume you never played WoW at launch. Where Crossroads in the Barrens was a daily 100v100 alliance/horde battle. When there were no PVP ranks, or gear. Because it was fun?

 

And yes, occasionally one side outmatched the other. What happened? The outmatched side sent people out to gather more players to even the score, which eventually led to 100 v 100 battles.

[Yazule]

No I don't. Explain it to me.

 

 

ok so here you go... i am getting in my wayback machine (you are probably to young to know about professor Peabody) and going back to 1998 ... *poof*

 

there is me playing UO on Catskills shard, I am at my player placed house near the mines on the southeast corner of fire island. I need some ore so i go out to clank on rocks and there is a guy there clanking on my rocks... MY ROCKS I say and I proceed to pound on him until he is dead. I loot his body of all valuables (rocks of course, and armor and money and potions) and bop back over to my house where i store all of his valuables in a locked chest. I pop back out to hit some more rocks and he and 3 buddies come by and "zerg" me (this term did not exist at this time) ... of course I have only my armor and pick on me which they loot.

 

So i res and go back to my house, open a chest full of armor (there for just such a reason), regear, ICQ a friend (there was no vent or tells or global chat, just proximity chat) and we get a little party together of 3 people and go out and wipe them while they mine, taking all of their gear and potions again (as well as the ore)... dummys came with back packs full AGAIN.. lol thanks for the potions...

 

this escalates until there are 10 of us from both sides killing and whacking each other, with me looting corpses and taking their gear back to my house to keep it safe.

 

end of the 2 hour event I have more ore than I could have mined by myself being left alone, about 10 sets of armor (for the next ten times i get killed/looted) a crapload of potions and weapons to smelt or sell or use, a good story (that now, 14 years later i can still tell) and oh by the way, at least two of the people that were in that fight are playing this game with me right now (camaraderie) ....

 

That was mining in a pvp world,

 

and you thought mining was boring because you played WOW too much!

 

Nuff said.

[Pashgan]

Sure - 1/5-5fps in DX9 game on 1 year old computer with DX11 video card isn't that bad. Really. Edited February 10, 2012 by Pashgan

[Gformutorila]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

If WoWkids played vanilla, they would. The roaming 5-mans in BRM, EPL, WPL, Kargath Pass, Zeppelins, etc... amazing. So fun.

 

When they introduced BGs, it was still kind of fun. Because you could camp the actual BG entrance and the surrounding area and have some fun small fights that would eventually lead to zerging.

 

Then when people could half-AFK queue from safe zones, world PvP absolutely died.

 

PvP should never be treated like raiding. MMO PvP is now, and will probably always be an instanced gear grind just like raiding. I can't even tell you how much I hate Blizzard/WoW for doing that to PvP.

 

I did play Vanilla WoW and PvP back then was terrible. I played horde back then. The server I played was ally/horde 80/20. Meaning it was not safe for a level 10 horde to take the Zeppelin because the allies were using the zep more then then the horde. It also meant the auction house was unusable beacuse the auctioneers were constanly getting killed by allies. The same went for most flight masters, allies were constaly killing them all. Often it took me 2 to 4 corpse run to get out and get into Ogrimar because of the allies ganking at the gates of the city. Yes so much fun doing constant corpse runs.

 

I can only imagine how much PvP skill it took to constanly gank lower level horde players when you the allie population was 4 times that of the horde.

[chuleh]

Really I don't understand why you people hold open world pvp as the epitome of pvp and that instanced pvp is crud. Someone explain it to me...

 

I mean the problem I find with it is that its just mindless zerg vs zerg.

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

[Race_Starraker]

I'll tell you why I like OW PvP. Sadly, it's not possible to recreate the circumstances under which I liked it.

 

My personal best experience in OW PvP was EQ 1. I was on the Team PvP server the day it launched in August, 1999 and I've never seen another game that provided the heart-pounding excitement.

 

1. You couldn't just go wherever you wanted...you had to plan to go somewhere to hunt if it was deep in 'enemy' territory.

 

2. You could punish other players for being idiots. If you were strong enough you could punish them repeatedly.

 

3. There were level limits so only someone within 8 levels of you could attack.

 

4. If there was a prime hunting ground (early on there were no instances in EQ) you could fight to take control of it.

 

5. There were penalties associated with dying in PvP - loss of one item early on, coins, and experience. One time I got 4,500 plat off a guy who had just gotten his money from the banker when I ganked him.

 

6. If you were getting harrassed, griefed, or otherwise beaten down you had choices: Call for help from the zone, call for help from the guild, or just log off.

 

It was challenging...that's what made it fun. There will never be another game like that, because too many people want PvP 'on my terms'.

 

I can remember logging on at 5am so I could run to Steamfont to buy metal bits for crafting...carrying money and praying no one on another team was online - hands sweaty, heart beating fast, moving as quickly as I could.

 

It was awesome.

 

That's why I like open-world PvP.

[DosPeros]

It really is quite simple.

 

The instanced PVP is a set piece with most of the variables taken out. Once a formula is developed each battle pretty much becomes the same thing.... over and over and over....

It is the equivilant of going to a known distance shooting range. Limited variables fun the first few times.... but the challenges are limited.

 

Open world PVP is unpredictable. You have to really look before you leap.... is that a fellow level 25 or a level 50 guy? Better check before you leap.... some days your gank fest turns into a nasty surprise. Open world is like hunting with a stick.... sometimes the prey has better weapons so you better be ready to fight or run....

 

If you are afraid of the unknowns... then you will never appreciate Open world

[Gformutorila]

I'll tell you why I like OW PvP. Sadly, it's not possible to recreate the circumstances under which I liked it.

 

My personal best experience in OW PvP was EQ 1. I was on the Team PvP server the day it launched in August, 1999 and I've never seen another game that provided the heart-pounding excitement.

 

1. You couldn't just go wherever you wanted...you had to plan to go somewhere to hunt if it was deep in 'enemy' territory.

 

2. You could punish other players for being idiots. If you were strong enough you could punish them repeatedly.

 

3. There were level limits so only someone within 8 levels of you could attack.

 

4. If there was a prime hunting ground (early on there were no instances in EQ) you could fight to take control of it.

 

5. There were penalties associated with dying in PvP - loss of one item early on, coins, and experience. One time I got 4,500 plat off a guy who had just gotten his money from the banker when I ganked him.

 

6. If you were getting harrassed, griefed, or otherwise beaten down you had choices: Call for help from the zone, call for help from the guild, or just log off.

 

It was challenging...that's what made it fun. There will never be another game like that, because too many people want PvP 'on my terms'.

 

I can remember logging on at 5am so I could run to Steamfont to buy metal bits for crafting...carrying money and praying no one on another team was online - hands sweaty, heart beating fast, moving as quickly as I could.

 

It was awesome.

 

That's why I like open-world PvP.

 

So what you are saying is that you want to gank other people? People who's gear and level is lower then you. Then you take their stuff and feel good about it?

 

That means a casul player has no place in the game since they will always lack the skils and gear. That in turn makes them cannon fodder. Great system NOT.

[carliiiiito]

im in the same boat as the OP,i dont understand the whole open world pvp thing,let me explain.

Open world pvp is 90% of the time ganking of some kind(2+vs1 or big lvl difference)

90% of the time youll have stuff on cd,not wearing pvp gear and generally not expecting a player to attack you.doenst make for a very fair fight,imo.

in a instanced wz,everyone whos there is expecting pvp,wants to pvp,and is fully ready for it.

Teams of equal size on both sides.

 

So yeah im confused on how ganking unprepared people is better pvp than fighting someone whos ready and willing to fight you.

just my 2 cent

[Race_Starraker]

im in the same boat as the OP,i dont understand the whole open world pvp thing,let me explain.

Open world pvp is 90% of the time ganking of some kind(2+vs1 or big lvl difference)

90% of the time youll have stuff on cd,not wearing pvp gear and generally not expecting a player to attack you.doenst make for a very fair fight,imo.

in a instanced wz,everyone whos there is expecting pvp,wants to pvp,and is fully ready for it.

Teams of equal size on both sides.

 

So yeah im confused on how ganking unprepared people is better pvp than fighting someone whos ready and willing to fight you.

just my 2 cent

 

No, you don't get it, but it's ok. We don't have to agree, I'm just telling you why I liked it.

 

And I was a very casual player back then...mostly got my butt beat, but it was still a lot of fun.

 

It's ok that you like your game on easy. Really it is. There are those of us who like a challenge, however, and OW PvP provides that.

[Zeratulz]

Really I don't understand why you people hold open world pvp as the epitome of pvp and that instanced pvp is crud. Someone explain it to me...

 

I mean the problem I find with it is that its just mindless zerg vs zerg.

 

If WoW was your first MMO you will not understand. If you didn't play UO you wouldn't understand. If you didn't play DAOC you wouldn't understand.

[Razot]

Whats so funny about this thread. You have so many people willing to work for gear but not work for kills..

 

Talk about having everything handed to you!! Even killing players is on the menu spoon feeding these WoW kids..

[RkJedi]

open world pvp is ok if you can find a rep/imp on the field and dont mind the horrible laggggggg....... i believe most servers are heavy imp sided.... so i dont know how world pvp is gonna work if there is not going to be a faction balance.

[carliiiiito]

No, you don't get it, but it's ok. We don't have to agree, I'm just telling you why I liked it.

 

And I was a very casual player back then...mostly got my butt beat, but it was still a lot of fun.

 

It's ok that you like your game on easy. Really it is. There are those of us who like a challenge, however, and OW PvP provides that.

 

where did i say i liked it easy?Much easier to kill someone who doesnt expect it than killing someone in a wz fully prepared and with teammates?

im 12-0 in ow pvp so far at lvl 44,ive played a ton of pvp in many games and i still think instanced pvp is better pvp than owpvp

[Nulli]

OWPvP comes in several flavors:

 

Also people tend to forget the boredom of OWPvP. The long runs/port times to get back into the fight. Running around and not finding anyone. Taking an enemy keep and not getting a response. Etc

 

 

Really, the Daily Quests resolved that issue prefectly. DAOC attempted to put in place PvP zone quests (Courier missions and whatnot) but it never worked right.

 

Another thing, at release, DAOC's best weapons were random drops from specific mobs in the Frontier which required you to actively be in the PvP zone to get gear, from PvE.

 

Also, fact is that a condensed pvp area does NOT encourage groupVgroup, only zergVzerg.

 

In TOR as a Scoundrel, I cannot in most cases complete a kill before getting rolled up on by random passers-by. The zone isn't small but it certainly doesn't facilitate small (group) or solo play.

 

 

 

vis a vis the attraction of OpenWorld versus Instanced pvp, there are dozens of factors in play. It's not a controlled environment, there is geography in play, you initiate combat with 4 and end up fighting 12, and maybe you win and maybe you don't. It's fluid and is more skill oriented, as the ultimate goal is to KILL everything and NEVAR DIE.

 

Alderaan, and Voidstar are more about burning down the other guys faster than they can burn you (speeder to node in Alderaan, door bombs in the other, just throw more bodies at it).

 

I bet you when BW initiates PvP scorekeeping metrics, like Warhammer had (total deaths, total kills, PvP titles, etc) you'll see more open world stuff going on.

[DosPeros]

I never liked open world PvP. It is not much fun trying to level when you get ganked by random people 20 levels higher then you. But I do not think PvP was very well implemented in SWTOR.

The answer to this is simply.... don't play on a PVP server

 

Any PvP system based on gear is a bad system IMHO.

I agree

 

I suck at PvP I will admit that. But I think PvP should be held in designated areas. So that people who are questing and or leveling will not be constantly ganked. I do not care if those designated areas are instandst or not. I do think when you enter such an erea all you gear should be auto replaced by PvP gear. Meaning all people in a PvP erea should be wearing the same level of gear. And when you move up in ranks/valor you can customize the looks and stats of you gear. Fo example you can reduse power and increase surge etc. So you can fine tune you gear but the item level doesn't change. Also say low ranks gear is green, mid level is black and high level valor gear is pink with golden stars and you get a rainbow coloured halo.

 

The whole challenge of open world PVP is that you don't know what you are facing..... Why is that concept so hard to graps. Open world is totally freeform and wild. Instanced is for PVE rs who want to act like PVP'ers.

[Dreadspectre]

Let's clarify a few things:

 

Open World PvP generally means

 

-Ganking and griefing of leveling players. This can be somewhat fun but only if it's not like a level 50 BM teabagging and griefing the same 3 level 20's over and over again.

 

-Zerg vs Zerg, I'm sorry this is only fun for ranged classes with AoE. Being melee in Zerg fests is garbage and regardless of class there isn't much time for "skill" to show through seeing as how there are enough people tossing damage around that people only have a few seconds to react before they go from 100-0.

 

What people here are wanting/reminiscing about is REALM PvP which generally means:

 

-Just about every zone is a PvP zone, meaning there are things to OWN by the players/guilds and to FIGHT for, not just 1 zone where an entire SERVER will have to flock to. This means Zerg vs Zerg is less likely as people will be fighting over many objectives.

 

-Actual benefits to the faction who is winning. Server wide buffs, bragging rights etc. Keeps/Forts/Bases with GUILD FLAGS etc on them.

 

 

Also I ask you this..someone said "small group OWPvP is really good", to which I ask how is that any different then a Warzone like Civil War? If Civil War were 16v16 would people have fun? It's basically mini forts(nodes) holding to control the zone. Only difference between it and OWPvP is when you die you don't have to run back for 5 minutes.

 

Also, while Arena's in WoW have historically been biased to FOTM class comps, saying that you need zero PvP skill to win them AT A HIGH LEVEL is a complete lie. You have to know every classes abilities, what they look like and how to deal with them.

 

My 2cents.

[Candykissesxoxo]

Really I don't understand why you people hold open world pvp as the epitome of pvp and that instanced pvp is crud. Someone explain it to me...

 

I mean the problem I find with it is that its just mindless zerg vs zerg.

 

Not to worry OP....open world PvP is virtually non existent in this game. You have obviously never experienced good open world PvP nor will you ever playing this game. In fact open world PvP is so non existent that playing on a PvP server in SWTOR is EXACTLY the same as playing on a PvE server lol

[Akiwi]

The thing I like about open world PvP is that it is on your terms (or your opponents)! no goals! no defense or offense of nodes, no timers to care about etc just you and your opponent *********** each other over till one dies.

 

Same concept in OW group PvP, your team Vs there's killing each other for the simple fun of it all! not clock watching or node sitting.

 

BTW I love WZ's aswell so dont get me wrong they are good too. Also I do like having goals in OWPvP like capture points etc which I guess you could class as node watching but it has a different feel to it when your not on a timer and knowing it can happen at anytime!

 

/my2cents

[AMKSED]

Really because I played SWG for years and there were small guilds that could ROFLSTOMP zerg guilds. Maybe you just sucked at PvP.

 

So could we.

 

 

Still doesn't change the fact that OWPvP is bad and just a numbers game.

[Nukor]

I think a lot of pvp'ers enjoy world pvp because of the fond memories many of us hold for moments we've only found in open world situations. There's a great deal of satisfaction in taking an enemy city, or taking back one of your own.

 

All in all however, world pvp pales in comparison to instanced pvp simply because it's impossible to balance team sizes and still keep it fun for both sides.

[DosPeros]

where did i say i liked it easy?Much easier to kill someone who doesnt expect it than killing someone in a wz fully prepared and with teammates?

im 12-0 in ow pvp so far at lvl 44,ive played a ton of pvp in many games and i still think instanced pvp is better pvp than owpvp

 

But that's just the thing.... In open world you should always be ready for it.... Your head should be on a swivel.. waiting for the pounce

 

Fight or flight live to fight another day or risk it all. Are you the hunter or the Prey.... all of the classic cliches.

 

 

I have a work college who has only play Care Bear PVE Lord of the Rings join us on our PVP server and his first experience in Open world PVP (Tatooine) saw him quit when he could not complete his PVE quest because he kept getting killed by an Imp...

 

What a pus... Instead of moving on to something else and using his brain he cried like a little ***** and quit.....

 

Oh so sorry the mean Imperial pissed in your corn flakes... go home and cry to mommy...

 

 

That is the difference between Open world and skirt hugging baby PVers and Instanced PVP'ers...

 

and by the way.... Ilum and the objectives.... that ain't open world either.....