Slickerpunk Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Playing both ACs I have come to the realization that the Operative/Scoundrel sap (the ability to CC someone only from stealth if they are not in combat) awards the victim a FULL resolve bar whereas the Shadow/Assassin equivalent awards maybe 60-75% of a resolve bar. These two respective abilities by each AC essentially do the exact same thing and are applied in the exact same manner. My question is this: Why does the Operative Sap award full resolve and the Assassin version does not? Working as intended or bug? This is a HUGE advantage to the Assassin in many situations (especially 1v1). Edited February 9, 2012 by Slickerpunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) maybe because assassins have no burst dps capability zomg classes are different! Edited February 9, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) maybe because assassins have no burst dps capability That is not correct at all. Some serious, learned, non-troll responses would be appreciated. Edited February 9, 2012 by Slickerpunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 That is not correct at all. Well i've never being hit by an assassin for 5k damage from stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've heard this argument before, but why make a comparison when these aren't mirrored classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've heard this argument before, but why make a comparison when these aren't mirrored classes? I only bring up the issue because the two AC's function more or less the same - vanish/sap/bursty. The two abilities also function the exact same way (down to the range of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IREcko Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 medium armor heals move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) I only bring up the issue because the two AC's function more or less the same - vanish/sap/bursty. The two abilities also function the exact same way (down to the range of them). Well here's another clue, both assassin and operative have 100 energy/force. Assassin's sap costs 50 force (half their energy pool) Operative's sap costs 20 energy. I guess if you want operatives sap reduced to 75% resolve then operative's sap will have to have it's energy cost increased to 50 as well....seeing you want it all equal. Just face it dude their different classes. Edited February 9, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickerpunk Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well here's another clue, both assassin and operative have 100 energy/force. Assassin's sap costs 50 force (half their energy pool) Operative's sap costs 20 energy. I guess if you want everything equal then operatives sap will have to have it's energy cost increased to 50 as well. Just face it dude their different classes. Doesn't really compare because the assassin recharge rate is static (meaning if its 1 or 99, it still recharges at the same base rate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Doesn't really compare because the assassin recharge rate is static (meaning if its 1 or 99, it still recharges at the same base rate). Soooo now you're saying the classes don't compare, go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 lol don't say an assassin is bursty ever. Any warrior is more bursty than an assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 OP: Because Operatives are like severely gimped Assassins. They have slightly higher burst, and are worse everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 operatives: grenade, orbital strike, and ranged explosive charge. assassins: better defensive CDs, sprint, and knockback. Anyone have an opinion on which is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 OP: Because Operatives are like severely gimped Assassins. They have slightly higher burst, and are worse everywhere else. Especially healing. Everyone knows how much better the Assassins heals are compared to Operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They are two different classes that perform a similar role, using different means. Operatives have a higher pre-loaded burst damage, but they are worse in everything else. Sin/Shadows have burst damage that needs a bit of non positional setup, but can crit for much higher than Operatives. They got better mobility, similar or better CC, better survivability, a much better resource system, less burst in Stealth but more burst out of Stealth and higher sustained damage. In my opinion, Sin/Shadows do the job better (just not from Stealth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Especially healing. Everyone knows how much better the Assassins heals are compared to Operatives. You want to compare healing? Compare an Operative to a Sorc. Sorcs are x10 times better healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You want to compare healing? Compare an Operative to a Sorc. Sorcs are x10 times better healers. That's not the topic. The topic is why Assassin and Operative space saps aren't perfectly identical. Since you can't just look at those single skills in a vacuum, you have to look at the whole toolset of both classes. That includes the fact that Operatives have much better healing, which certainly can come into play when the opponent is CCed and can't interrupt the healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 maybe because assassins have no burst dps capability zomg classes are different! I seriously hope you're joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That's not the topic. The topic is why Assassin and Operative space saps aren't perfectly identical. Since you can't just look at those single skills in a vacuum, you have to look at the whole toolset of both classes. That includes the fact that Operatives have much better healing, which certainly can come into play when the opponent is CCed and can't interrupt the healing. Healing is hard to pull off as an Operative in combat, in most cases anyway, especially if you got a dot on the opponent. I'd rather have some solid defensive CD over a heal any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polimeris Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Why two exact same abilities have a different effect on resolve bar ? It's obvious ! Hell ! It's so obvious that no one will tell you why. Never. It's totally impossible someone will give you the answer. Because it's obvious. You see ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Healing is hard to pull off as an Operative in combat, in most cases anyway, especially if you got a dot on the opponent. I'd rather have some solid defensive CD over a heal any day. Operative: Evasion - 100% dodge, 3 seconds, 1m cooldown, removes all hostile effects with Avoidance Training Shield Probe - bubble, 15 seconds, 45s cooldown Healing - usable anytime, all the time, on all damage Shadow: Deflection - 50% dodge, 12 seconds, 2m cooldown Resilience - 100% resistance vs force and tech attacks, 3 seconds (5 if tank specced), 45 second cooldown, also removes all hostile effects You sure you want to give up that anytime healing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubfist Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Playing both ACs I have come to the realization that the Operative/Scoundrel sap (the ability to CC someone only from stealth if they are not in combat) awards the victim a FULL resolve bar whereas the Shadow/Assassin equivalent awards maybe 60-75% of a resolve bar. These two respective abilities by each AC essentially do the exact same thing and are applied in the exact same manner. My question is this: Why does the Operative Sap award full resolve and the Assassin version does not? Working as intended or bug? This is a HUGE advantage to the Assassin in many situations (especially 1v1). Sounds like a bug. I've watched an operative sap-spam someone. It literally never ended. They just waited for the resolve to drop a little each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Also Operatives have Flash Bang as well, which means with space sap and flash bang they could keep someone CCed for well over 10 seconds if the sap didn't fill up the resolve bar. Assassins can't do that, so their sap doesn't need to fill it up all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mareign Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Operative: Evasion - 100% dodge, 3 seconds, 1m cooldown, removes all hostile effects with Avoidance Training Shield Probe - bubble, 15 seconds, 45s cooldown Healing - usable anytime, all the time, on all damage Shadow: Deflection - 50% dodge, 12 seconds, 2m cooldown Resilience - 100% resistance vs force and tech attacks, 3 seconds (5 if tank specced), 45 second cooldown, also removes all hostile effects You sure you want to give up that anytime healing? The healing is pretty useless unless you spec for it. The only time it's actually of any use at all is when you escape but the game won't let you out of combat. Trying to heal with any enemies around you is a recipe for disaster. You should actually try playing the class before you try to comment on it. Anyways this has no bearing on the sap issue. Both perform exactly the same function yet one is significantly more powerful in pvp. Ever tried taking a point in Alderaan with an assassin guarding it? Unless you get really lucky and pull him out of stealth or he's an idiot you will not take the point before help arrives thanks to this. I've seen one hold off 3 potential cappers for the better part of a minute thanks to being able to spam sap. Trying to do the same thing as an op or smuggler just fills their resolve bar and screws your opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpinelessNJ Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 medium armor heals move on Medium what lol? Spec heals and do no dmg. Spec dps and do no healing. Either way your not healing in combat unless you spec just about 80% of the way up the tree and at that point its your only viable role. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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