Dreossk Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) If it's what it takes to wake them up and make them start communicating with us. Edited February 9, 2012 by Dreossk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 "You don't like it, leave!" *people leave* "Where is everyone" /boggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalKitty Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Being upset is one thing taking to the forums for ten to twelve hours a day to spew hate and negativity almost sixty days after launch is agenda based or obsessive take your pick. We have as much right to say our opinion like the people who praise this game. Talking about using a straw argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaelPrime Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 They made it clear that it would contain every expected AAA MMO features and it's not the case so it's normal that players that paid attention during development are disgusted by BioWare. Hey thanks for the feed back and I agree with you, except im not quite disgusted in the developers. However, I really just wanted to quote you for your post in your sig. It is filled with great feedback on what I think are some of the major flaws in TOR. I agree that they should have had a lot of this stuff implemented in the game already, but as my post says, ill give them some time to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 We have as much right to say our opinion like the people who praise this game. Talking about using a straw argument. Again you didn't answer my previous question...but I have a strong feeling why that is. Yes you have a right; but continuing to pay for a game you hate is a bit ridiculous. It's kinda like that Star Trek episode where Data keeps drinking this Liquid that taste awful to him yet he insist that Gyunan give him more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaelPrime Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 We have as much right to say our opinion like the people who praise this game. Talking about using a straw argument. I totally agree that you have the right to be heard. Most the posts that I am talking about are the ones that go: I ******* hate this game BW and EA are ******* going to burn in hell cause its not what I expected. I just want people to be constructive and not always tout the doom of the game based on how they hate huttball, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocaspar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) After weeks of looking over all these posts about whats wrong with this game and why BW and EA failed it really starts to get annoying. I understand that the game came out buggy and there are some needed changes, however, what most people dont understand when playing an MMO is this... IT IS IN CONSTANT PROGRESSION. I hate when people say they came from WoW and complain that these new MMO's arent as polished, but you know what... when WoW first came out, it was buggy as hell. An MMO will never be everything you want from the get go, and a new game can never have as much content as a game that has been on the Market for 8+ years. Like any MMO it will get better with time. I know TOR has a lot that needs to be fixed but I wish when people came to the forums it wasnt always: THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE NOW OR EVERYONE WILL QUIT!!!!!!!!! because it wont happen like that, what will most likely happen is that you will quit now and TOR will go on with out you and continue to get better and the community will eventually either grow or deplete while you move on to the next new MMO and start the process again. The biggest problem new MMOs face isnt having enough content to begin with, its having a player base that is too Jaded to realize that games like WoW dont start out that way... they expand into a great game. TOR has its flaws, but if the community can come together and give constructive feedback then it will expand and grow into a game that we can all enjoy. I know the argument that the developers are blind to the community, but you have to see that after the whole GCD fiasco that they are paying attention whether or not they verbally say it on the forums or not. My final point is, that you dont have to sound like a bunch of whiners to be heard and the devs are working pretty hard to make this into an enjoyable game for everyone, but the main thing.... it takes time, and if you cant be patient, then you will miss out on a whole lot of games that could be potentially great. Sorry to rant on but I figure, if all of you are whining about the game then I can whine about you. Based on that block of text I would like to know how old you were when WoW came out 7 years ago and what experience you've had with WoW's launch being "buggy as hell"? I was there on launch day and beside maybe a few days where login servers crashed and some servers (including mine) were offline because they simply could not handle the stress of the people trying to play, and a few weeks of server instability due to the volume of players, WoW's release was relatively smooth. Keep in mind these server problems were unforeseen to Blizzard because this was pre-WoW, and Blizzard worked quickly to correct extreme situations by giving out free server x-fers to less populated realms and LIMITING game sales until new realms were made available. In terms of default UI, graphics, questing and content the game launched extremely polished, because Blizzard has a reputation of taking the time it needs to perfect their games before release, and this includes multiple release date delays. You say that Swtor is in constant progression, true, but how do you explain why the released a game with layer upon layer of bugs REPORTED and DOCUMENTED by beta testers more than a year ago that were never fixed? How do you explain why their fixes and patches to certain bugs or broken content (ilum) weren't tested correctly before being released to the live servers? How can you explain why players are left to analyze and fix Bioware's so called *5% population problem* in having ****** fps on mid to high end rigs? I don't think Bioware has even suggested any possible fixes that weren't initially suggested by 3rd party or player sources. How do you explain why the newly patched GCD "fix" is a complete cluster**** of blinking buttons that wasn't detected on the public test realm? Is there even any communication between the PTR player base and game developers beside "Hey this patch didn't crash the server, its good to go?" This game was unfinished when it was released, probably because EA pushed for the christmas sales deadline, and Bioware have been trying to cover their asses patching their beta game ever since. P.S. to whom ever said un-subbing doesn't hurt Bioware? Really? Reaaaaaalllly? Edited February 9, 2012 by Robocaspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beansoup Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'll give it time and keep my eye on it, but I'm not going to pay for a beta test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I had plenty of patience following the game for years while in development. I read news releases, participated in betas and patiently waited for the game to go live. Now I am paying for the game and my patience is no longer a factor. I have to be entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEnvoy Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I will not give it time. I am a consumer who expects a working product. If BW can't figure out how to patch this MMO without breaking something, then I have the right to call them out for it. Quoted for truth. Ok... they can have all the time in the world to improve the game. Just not with my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 last time I checked...those games were still going, I happen to play three of those. Two of them were still subscription based when I started, and they are still going strong, and I still havet left becasue of it. heh...PR disaster...lol......I did pretty good for jsut posting a few sentances didnt I? I wonder what I can do in the US Government forums? . .So you're just helping Bioware achieve the stunning success of Warhammer, Aion, Champions, and Star Trek? I'm sure they appreciate everything you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsaintKLS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You have no clue or experience on how to run a business do you? ^ This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorillastein Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I will complain about the things I don't like regardless of whether someone thinks I'm being impatient, etc. I'll give them time when they give me a game that works as advertised or if they comp me a few months of billing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilsaintKLS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 if it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that Well it makes me feel better too so I will keep saying to myself that you have no clue on how a business works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaelPrime Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Based on that block of text I would like to know how old you were when WoW came out 7 years ago and what experience you've had with WoW's launch being "buggy as hell"? I was there on launch day and beside maybe a few days where login servers crashed and some servers (including mine) were offline because they simply could not handle the stress of the people trying to play, and a few weeks of server instability due to the volume of players, WoW's release was relatively smooth. Keep in mind these server problems were unforeseen to Blizzard because this was pre-WoW, and Blizzard worked quickly to correct extreme situations by giving out free server x-fers to less populated realms. In terms of default UI, graphics, questing and content the game launched extremely polished, because Blizzard has a reputation of taking the time it needs to perfect their games before release, and this includes multiple release date delays. You say that Swtor is in constant progression, true, but how do you explain why the released a game with layer upon layer of bugs REPORTED and DOCUMENTED by beta testers more than a year ago that were never fixed? How do you explain why their fixes and patches to certain bugs or broken content (ilum) weren't tested correctly before being released to the live servers? How can you explain why players are left to analyze and fix Bioware's so called *5% population problem* in having ****** fps on mid to high end rigs? I don't think Bioware has even suggested any possible fixes that weren't initially suggested by 3rd party or player sources. This game was unfinished when it was released, probably because EA pushed for the christmas sales deadline, and Bioware have been trying to cover their asses patching their beta game ever since. P.S. to whom ever said un-subbing doesn't hurt Bioware? Really? Reaaaaaalllly? Of course because I am too lazy to create a post thats not a wall of text means im young..... How about the bug with Warriors chance to hit.... Or the bug with Shamans Windfurry.... Thats just a few... and the UI in the begining wasnt completely top notch... They allowed for addons that many people eventually used because they liked them better. I never said TOR was perfect. I didnt say that they did not leave bugs in that should have been fixed before beta. What I said was that you should give them constructive feedback and not predict the doom of the game every other post. Give the devs some time to implement the things you want and if its not fast enough or you dont want to spend the money on the game, then no one is going to fault you for leaving. I do however have to wonder at the people who unsubscribe and then still come to the forums to rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryk Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I don’t see the point of coming to the forums and whining about anything. There is a suggestion area on this site. Make a suggestion if there is something you want changed. If you don’t like the game, why you are here on the forums and paying? If you do love the game, like Moi, then you would be playing it. If you are at work like me now and want to BS, then go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumajin Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yes you have a right; but continuing to pay for a game you hate is a bit ridiculous. Some of us are aren't continuing to pay for the game. Some of us still have time left that we already paid for, realized after the fact how disappointed we are, and now voice our opinions at the forums during that remaining pre-paid time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocaspar Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Of course because I am too lazy to create a post thats not a wall of text means im young..... How about the bug with Warriors chance to hit.... Or the bug with Shamans Windfurry.... Thats just a few... and the UI in the begining wasnt completely top notch... They allowed for addons that many people eventually used because they liked them better. I never said TOR was perfect. I didnt say that they did not leave bugs in that should have been fixed before beta. What I said was that you should give them constructive feedback and not predict the doom of the game every other post. Give the devs some time to implement the things you want and if its not fast enough or you dont want to spend the money on the game, then no one is going to fault you for leaving. I do however have to wonder at the people who unsubscribe and then still come to the forums to rant. Class bugs have always been around and will always be around because class abilities/talent trees/gear evolve constantly. How many times has WoW has completely revamped a classes play style. When something becomes OP or broken they are promptly examined and changed/fixed. Even Bioware did this for Operative/Scoundrels and stacking buffs/stims in a reasonable time. What I'm arguing is the lack of testing in general for this game. Or maybe it's the lack of testing information getting to the correct departments before they release content/fixes. The beta obviously failed since this game is "buggy as hell" and the PTR is supposed to be a buffer or a last line of defense for Bioware to test out whatever it is they need to test before it reaches the live realms and it just seems like Bioware isn't using it correctly. And to answer you, people like to come to the forums and rant because it's possible to do so at work, and it's fun to vent your frustrations somewhere. Edited February 9, 2012 by Robocaspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbear Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I played wow for 5 years which I enjoyed. I was really looking forward to swotr and found the story great:). But after playing it for a while I wasn't so sure but was still gonaa see, But after I played a sneek peek of a new game called TERA I was very impressed. for me I will be going there as it had what I was looking for in a mmo. swotr had the potential to be great but for me felt like a single player that was good while it lasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodlumpriest Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Totally agree with u all. And like any wine, it gets better in time. Patient is a virtue. I think you will find that this wine has already been 'corked' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaelPrime Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Class bugs have always been around and will always be around because class abilities/talent trees/gear evolve constantly. How many times has WoW has completely revamped a classes play style. When something becomes OP or broken they are promptly examined and changed/fixed. Even Bioware did this for Operative/Scoundrels and stacking buffs/stims in a reasonable time. What I'm arguing is the lack of testing in general for this game. Or maybe it's the lack of testing information getting to the correct departments before they release content/fixes. The PTR is supposed to be a buffer or a last line of defense for Bioware to test out whatever it is they need to test before it reaches the live realms and it just seems like Bioware isn't using it correctly. And to answer you, people like to come to the forums and rant because it's possible to do so at work, and it's fun to vent your frustrations somewhere. I completely agree that the PTR is not being used as complete as it should be. I do believe that Bioware is trying to get fixes out at a rate that doesnt allow for proper testing. I believe this because I think that Bioware is afraid of becoming the next CO, STO, DCU, etc. They want to make sure they are getting fixes out the door at a speed that shows they are trying to appease the people. Sometimes too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambrogino Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Actually, im not living in 2004, name one MMO that hasnt started out buggy and needed work.... LotRO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Incarnadine Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Having done a lot of work with developers, beta tested updates for games and new games for several years (and no, not calling myself an expert, just some experience). Years ago I was one of the people shouting and threatening to leave, but in that time what I have learned is this: There is a controlled environment, and there are the live servers. Internal testing is going to consist of several employees testing various functions of the game. They are not going to run a character up to 50 on a PVP and PVE server for every character build for every patch, they are going to miss things. While this may seem like a lousy testing process, think about how long it takes you to run a character up to 50, and imagine waiting for that for even minor fixes. Beta server is voluntary, and when something is found there, the developers have to look at it and determine how many people it will affect, how fast they can fix it, and if it is worth stopping the release over. Again, this usually does not give enough time for running characters from 1 to 50, in patches at least. Major updates and new releases of games, different story. Live servers put way more strain on the system than either of the other two, and open up possibilities that the others simply could not test, far more people are on, so different hardware configurations for computers, different play styles, progression in story, and a million other factors that could not be tested for. Bottom line is, any game will have bugs, and this game isn't even two months old yet. The game should not be judged on bugs, but how they respond to critical ones. This recent one with PVP on Illum not working properly was fixed pretty darn quick, and even though it did not affect me at all (I play on PVE servers), I can certainly appreciate the effort, knowing they will put it in if something is preventing me from playing as well. This is part of the process. If you do not like that, take a break, check back in a few months and see how it is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaelPrime Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 LotRO... way to go name the one game I didnt try.... damn you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiaku Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The problem with this subject is giving a developer time for something you are already bound and paying for.. They dont have time, because the bugs that exist and the lack of features is something which should have been dealt with before release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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