Alot people forget that this game is new...

[Sabouma]

Excuses, This is a 2012 game, it needs to launch with the standard features otherwise why play it? Tera is launching with an LFG tool and a combat log and everything, i'm probably going to switch over to that game because it is going to have everything i want in an MMO right out of the gate.

 

And you think that game will work exactly like you want it to? Sweet dreams mate....

 

to the OP: kudos to you!

[cerveau]

You still cannot compare TOR launch to WoW launch.

Want to know why?

 

Because when you release game with the intention of beating the heavy competition, then you have something that can compete with them. Such as a LFG tool or anything else this sinking ship is lacking.

THEN you add something new and innovative and win.

 

If you do not start out on a competitive level from the start, you're years behind.

 

new and innovative ?

 

wot abt the VO? and companion system ?

 

im a quite sick of the QQ myself, the game is only like 3 months - give it a chance.

[windzro]

basicly people feel if swtor didnt launch with

 

10mil players

LFG tool

27 raids

67 dungeons

8 battlegrounds

 

 

 

than it is a fail boat.....

[Frostvein]

basicly people feel if swtor didnt launch with

 

10mil players

LFG tool

27 raids

67 dungeons

8 battlegrounds

 

 

 

than it is a fail boat.....

 

This is so ridiculously stupidly untrue that it makes me sad that this is all you got from the thread.

 

Most of the problems with this game are the lack of basic features, not the lack of content.

 

People can argue about what they think a basic feature is, but if basically every MMO for the past 10 or more years had it, then its probably a basic feature.

[Hardin_Steele]

You still cannot compare TOR launch to WoW launch.

Want to know why?

 

Because when you release game with the intention of beating the heavy competition, then you have something that can compete with them. Such as a LFG tool or anything else this sinking ship is lacking.

THEN you add something new and innovative and win.

 

If you do not start out on a competitive level from the start, you're years behind.

 

TotalKitty will go on to the next game, and complain tirelessly about how many things are missing. Some people are not happy unless they are complaining.

 

C'mon! Give the whining a rest. I'm having fun, and the Consular story is pretty awesome! The end of Chapter 3 is really cool, the ceremony is cool...I loved it!

 

Are there some things that need work? Of course! Just as your next game will need work. And don't think it won't. You are silly to think otherwise. Not even two months out and we are getting lots of things fixed, upgrades coming left and right. Stay calm. Good things come to those who wait.

[porfyr]

blah

 

C'mon! Give the whining a rest. I'm having fun, and the Consular story is pretty awesome! The end of Chapter 3 is really cool, the ceremony is cool...I loved it!

 

blah

 

I'm not sure if they've fixed it but my companions came naked to the ceremony.

I didn't find it cool at all.

[krinaman]

Are you also this uncritical when you buy cars or mobile phones?

 

Would you buy a car for the price of a modern car that has fewer features then a car released 20 years ago?

 

Would you pay the same price for a smart phone with no features and 256 MB memory and a processor from 1980 when you could get a iPhone or Android for the exact same price?

 

If so, could you contact me via PM? I have a "really modern" "cutting edge" smart phone to sell you.

 

Once again, we aren't buying cars or mobile phones. We are buying entertainment.

 

When I go to the movies I don't gripe that a movie that cost 20 million to make has the same ticket price of a 200 million movie. I don't gripe that a movie doesn't have enough stars or big enough stars. I don't gripe about the rating or lack of features (violence, language, nudity, etc). I don't complain about the run time. I don't complain it's not 3d, etc.

 

If the movie is entertaining I'm happy. If the movie sucks, I might leave before it's over. The interesting part is that when I leave, I just get up and leave. I don't stand in the middle of the theater trying to tell the other people still watching it that the movie sucks. I don't stay for the entire movie just so I can keep telling people how much I hate it. I certainly don't go buy another ticket for the next showing just so I can tell more people it sucks. I just get up and leave.

 

So yes, I'm currently being entertained by the game. So I will continue to play it. If you aren't being entertained I would suggest getting up and walking out.

[Malpracticex]

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

 

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch.

 

 

So let me give you abit of an insight what was available at WoW's launch.

 

Dungeon Finder? No, there was a tool similiar to the "Who" tool available in SW:ToR. They improved it by time, and so will also BioWare do.

 

Balanced PVP? Not even close. Some classes was absolutely unbeatable if played with a sense of skill, while some didn't stand a chance even when mastered. This is actually true. PVP in Vanilla WoW was not balanced at all. Not to mention that it took over a year to actually make things kind of balanced.

 

Different kind of "meters"? No. Damage meters like Recount are add-ons. An add-on is something you add on to your game, to make it better. Add-ons are created by the community. Combat logs are requierd to make add-ons like these and they aren't available yet in SW:ToR. But, people were fine without all those add-ons in the what some call "the best time" of WoW, the start.

 

Bugged raids? There was not a large amount of bugs in the raids on start, but why? Because nearly all fights were tank and spank, exept Ragnaros and Onyxia, and these bosses didn't have any really complex mechanics. With today's standard of boss fights, it's alot harder to create completely bug-free fights. As time goes, BioWare will fix this issue aswell.

 

 

 

I'm getting tierd of people making assumptions that WoW had everything it has today at start, because it didn't. It's been improving, and SW:ToR will do aswell. The developers have just completed an awesome game, that really gives you a relation to your character, your companions and people you interact with during the story-line. All this due to the absolutely awesome work with the voices and quests overall.

 

 

I could make an list what SW:ToR had from the absolute start, that WoW didn't have, but I'll skip that, since it will take ages. Just think of it..

 

 

+1...

[Irusan]

Once again, we aren't buying cars or mobile phones. We are buying entertainment.

 

When I go to the movies I don't gripe that a movie that cost 20 million to make has the same ticket price of a 200 million movie. I don't gripe that a movie doesn't have enough stars or big enough stars. I don't gripe about the rating or lack of features (violence, language, nudity, etc). I don't complain about the run time. I don't complain it's not 3d, etc.

 

If the movie is entertaining I'm happy. If the movie sucks, I might leave before it's over. The interesting part is that when I leave, I just get up and leave. I don't stand in the middle of the theater trying to tell the other people still watching it that the movie sucks. I don't stay for the entire movie just so I can keep telling people how much I hate it. I certainly don't go buy another ticket for the next showing just so I can tell more people it sucks. I just get up and leave.

 

So yes, I'm currently being entertained by the game. So I will continue to play it. If you aren't being entertained I would suggest getting up and walking out.

 

Hear, hear!! I swear if I see one more comparison of SWTOR to an automobile I am going to scream. Go buy a car for the same amount of money as even the super-duper collectors edition and tell me how awesome that car is...assuming it even runs.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Irusan

[Irusan]

People act like whatever money was used to develop this game was their money. I pay my taxes and this game cost X million dollars to develop so I deserve and demand better and/or the game should be as I imagined it to be!

 

Years ago there was this movie, "The Spirit". I couldn't wait to see it. Directed by Frank Miller (Sin City writer), I just KNEW it would be awesome. It wasn't. I lived through it.

 

This guy sums it up pretty well, though. This was posted here on another thread and I felt it nailed it pretty well.

 

[Katharis]

If the movie is entertaining I'm happy. If the movie sucks, I might leave before it's over. The interesting part is that when I leave, I just get up and leave. I don't stand in the middle of the theater trying to tell the other people still watching it that the movie sucks. I don't stay for the entire movie just so I can keep telling people how much I hate it. I certainly don't go buy another ticket for the next showing just so I can tell more people it sucks. I just get up and leave.

 

I have a friend who stood up during the climactic scene of the 70s remake of King Kong and declared, "How can you people sit here and watch this!" before storming out of the theater. King Kong still died at the end though.

 

That's because the movie was finished well before she paid to watch it in the theater and at that point there was nothing she could say that would influence the outcome of the story.

 

MMOs, being ongoing projects subject to change depending upon the whims of the developers, on the other hand...

 

<crickets>

 

...if enough people are standing up and storming out and making their emotional declarations of displeasure, it's not outside the realm of possibility that the devs might take heed and maybe even institute a change or two that may serve to turn those frowns upside down. It would never happen, though, if everyone simply took their leave while exhibiting an elevated degree of stoicism.

 

And therefore never send to know for whom the 'troll' QQs; he QQs for thee.

[_Flin_]

If the game is so new, why does it use so many old things?

 

- 32-bit client

- DirectX 9.0

- Bad asset loading leading to fps-bumps on fleet when driving and opening inventory or character screen

- Abysmal performance in multiplayer situation (see civil war, ilum)

- limited to 2GB RAM

 

And if it is so new, why hasn't it learned from the mistakes of it's predecessors?

- no api, no plugins

- no world pvp

- too much cc in pvp

- hardly any endgame

- hardly any crafting

- 90% of content for level 1-49

 

Guess what, I pay subscription NOW. And I want to have a value for it NOW. I already paid 70 Euro for that game, and do not intend to pay another 100 to have a great game SOMEDAY.

 

I enjoyed leveling. It's over. I do not enjoy the game currently. Not enough things to do.

[Lethality]

new and innovative ?

 

wot abt the VO? and companion system ?

 

im a quite sick of the QQ myself, the game is only like 3 months - give it a chance.

 

Voice has been done before, and some would argue to the extent it was done in TOR was unnecessary.

 

Companions? Pets. Old as the hills.

[Rollcageuk]

...if enough people are standing up and storming out and making their emotional declarations of displeasure, it's not outside the realm of possibility that the devs might take heed and maybe even institute a change or two that may serve to turn those frowns upside down. It would never happen, though, if everyone simply took their leave while exhibiting an elevated degree of stoicism.

 

---------------------

The problem is most of the leavers are trolls, just looking for reinforcement of their belief that quitting is the right thing to do.

You have the option to give feedback on the game when you unsub, so there is no valid reason to come onto the forums apart from trolling and/or seeking approval.

 

No, all I quit threads are pure attention seeking. The cinema analogy is actually brilliant. If I don't like a film, I get up and leave, I don't shout out to the whole auditorium that I am leaving and then listing(poorly usually) the reasons.

 

And all the comparison threads I find actually quite funny.

1. It is possible to like more than 1 game, you don't have to be a fan of only 1. If you are having fun then keep playing. If I like COD does it mean I can't like BF3? Of course not!

2. All games are not the same, so asking for them to be the same is ridiculous, all the comparisons seem to want is WOW in space. I left WOW so why would I want the same here?!?!?

3. Comparing a game that has taken 4 years to develop against a game that has been in development for 11 years, 7 of which were live; is ridiculous, especially when it comes to things like balance. FYI, WOW still isn't perfectly balanced after 10years+.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Rollcageuk

[kirorx]

gripes and complaints about this game are not unfounded.

 

People dont want this game to fail, they want it to be good.

 

They wanted it to be good since 2009.

 

Some ideas the community comes up with are a bit much or just not reasonable but if bioware/EA listen pay attention to their compaints more than thier praises they will have a great game.

 

Critizism is good thing. Its a chance to make things better.

[Lethality]

People act like whatever money was used to develop this game was their money. I pay my taxes and this game cost X million dollars to develop so I deserve and demand better and/or the game should be as I imagined it to be!

 

Years ago there was this movie, "The Spirit". I couldn't wait to see it. Directed by Frank Miller (Sin City writer), I just KNEW it would be awesome. It wasn't. I lived through it.

 

This guy sums it up pretty well, though. This was posted here on another thread and I felt it nailed it pretty well.

 

 

Try replacing "video game" or "entertainment" with the word "hobby" and consider what that means.

 

These are not just games, they are hobbies for people. Hobbies that people like to invest in, just like home brewing, carpentry or rebuilding a classic muscle car.

 

Developers pour far more money into these than most movies, records or any other form of entertainment.

 

These are not intended to be just games, and players don't want to consume them that way. Hence the passion and expectation for more.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Lethality

[gaalon]

And all the comparison threads I find actually quite funny.

1. It is possible to like more than 1 game, you don't have to be a fan of only 1. If you are having fun then keep playing. If I like COD does it mean I can't like BF3? Of course not!

2. All games are not the same, so asking for them to be the same is ridiculous, all the comparisons seem to want is WOW in space. I left WOW so why would I want the same here?!?!?

3. Comparing a game that has taken 4 years to develop against a game that has been in development for 11 years, 7 of which were live; is ridiculous, especially when it comes to things like balance. FYI, WOW still isn't perfectly balanced after 10years+.

 

I don't particularly love WOW or think it's such a great game. That's why I haven't really played (or paid) much in the past years.

 

However, if a company decides to create a WOW-clone with some voice acting as their main sales argument then I at least expect them to create a WOW-clone which is on par with Rift and other WOW-clones.

 

I really don't see how anyone can defend this game with the argument that they left WOW for something new when this game is actually just a really inferior copy of WOW. Same concept, same ideas for end-game (which are boring in WOW and SWTOR and all other clones IMHO), same class design, same game mechanics (again, badly copied but still a copy) but then not include all the things that WOW does do well (customizable UI, guild bank, combat log for heavens sake... and so on and so on).

 

How can you be satisfied with this? Do you not have any standards whatsoever?

 

I would have LOVED SWTOR to be a new and fresh experience. One of the reasons I feel so betrayed by BW is because it's neither new nor fresh... it's vanilla WOW with ST-skin. If I can't get anything fresh and new then I still would settle for old but at least well-developed/designed (such as learning from improvements that other companies added to their games in the past 10 years).

 

What we got with SWTOR was the quality and "polish" of a totally new game concept while not actually getting a new game concept. Simply a weak copy of WOW.

 

People claiming that this game is wonderful and BW are great must really want this game to fail and go f2p in a years time.

 

I on the other hand would hope that sooner or later BW can't ignore the unhappy customers on their forums and will move the games development in a positive direction so it becomes worthwhile to resub sometime in the future (not like most fail-launch MMOs that usually die out fairly fast).

 

Edit:

but to be quite honest my outrage is quickly turning to indifference (which is actually an even worse omen for SWTOR - outrage at least means that I care and am disappointed whereas indifference just means that I will bring my money to some other game and never look back).

Edited February 15, 2012 by gaalon

[PjPablo]

Not saying the game still isn't new, but.....

 

When does it cease to be 'new'?

[GalacticKegger]

I don't particularly love WOW or think it's such a great game. That's why I haven't really played (or paid) much in the past years.

 

However, if a company decides to create a WOW-clone with some voice acting as their main sales argument then I at least expect them to create a WOW-clone which is on par with Rift and other WOW-clones.

 

I really don't see how anyone can defend this game with the argument that they left WOW for something new when this game is actually just a really inferior copy of WOW. Same concept, same ideas for end-game (which are boring in WOW and SWTOR and all other clones IMHO), same class design, same game mechanics (again, badly copied but still a copy) but then not include all the things that WOW does do well (customizable UI, guild bank, combat log for heavens sake... and so on and so on).

 

How can you be satisfied with this? Do you not have any standards whatsoever?

 

I would have LOVED SWTOR to be a new and fresh experience. One of the reasons I feel so betrayed by BW is because it's neither new nor fresh... it's vanilla WOW with ST-skin. If I can't get anything fresh and new then I still would settle for old but at least well-developed/designed (such as learning from improvements that other companies added to their games in the past 10 years).

 

What we got with SWTOR was the quality and "polish" of a totally new game concept while not actually getting a new game concept. Simply a weak copy of WOW.

 

People claiming that this game is wonderful and BW are great must really want this game to fail and go f2p in a years time.

 

I on the other hand would hope that sooner or later BW can't ignore the unhappy customers on their forums and will move the games development in a positive direction so it becomes worthwhile to resub sometime in the future (not like most fail-launch MMOs that usually die out fairly fast).

 

Edit:

but to be quite honest my outrage is quickly turning to indifference (which is actually an even worse omen for SWTOR - outrage at least means that I care and am disappointed whereas indifference just means that I will bring my money to some other game and never look back).

This. I want my date to not only know exactly what I want in a mate, but I expect her to be everything I want in a mate after our first night out. She's had her entire life to be perfect for me, so this shouldn't be an issue. I also want the house remodeled, 1.8 cars, 2.3 kids, a nice fluffy retirement and my kids' college educations paid for, and I expect everything hand delivered by next Tuesday. That's the problem with living one's life through MMOs. Reality gets kind of ... skewed. Edited February 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bomp]

Not saying the game still isn't new, but.....

 

When does it cease to be 'new'?

 

 

 

Good question. I was an Alpha tester in Final Fantasy 14. We complained to SE about loads of problems. We were always shut down by people preaching the game was great and that we should go back to WoW for trying to improve the game.

 

"It's just Alpha. It'll get better. They will fix it"

"It's just Beta. They'll fix everything"

"It's just pre-launch. It'll be fine"

"The game is new. The next patch will fix things!"

"The big content patch is comming, things will be great!"

 

FF14 now has less then 14k subs, and they are completely rebuilding the engine in hopes of saving the game.

 

Constructive criticism is needed for every game to improve it. When it gets shut down by people preaching the game is great and those features are not needed is when things start to fall.

[Wardoomed]

The game is, at its core, fun to play.

 

All the other features can be added. That is the difference between this and FF14.

 

And I enjoy the combat system more than WoW. Guess it's just personal preference.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Wardoomed

[gaalon]

Ya. I want my gf to not only know exactly what I want in a mate but I expect her to be everything I want in a mate by the end of the first date. I also want a house, 1.8 cars, 2.3 kids, my own Fortune 500 company, a nice fluffy retirement and my kids' college educations paid for, and I expect it by next Tuesday. That's the problem with living life through MMOs - reality gets kind of ... blurred.

 

Bit of a failed analogy you got going there friend. I'm not asking for anything impossible - I'm asking for what other games have been delivering for years. I'm also not asking anyone to read my mind - it would be enough to read the patch notes of WOW from 2004 up until recently and see what features were implemented... After all Blizzard is not in the habit of implementing pointless features - they're a company and only do things that will either increase their income or secure future income. If Blizzard thinks it worth investing millions in an API so players can customize their UI and the game has millions of customers then they must be onto something... and they're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it for profit.

 

You're acting like I want something magical that can't exsist when I actually want one of two things:

 

Possibility one (the preferable one) is a new and fresh game experience. This may be fairly flawed at release because everything has to be designed from scratch and I can live with those flaws (and I'm not talking about bugs here - bugs are fairly irrelevant to me because they are mistakes made by human - what I have a problem with are dismal design choices - meaning that some BW game designer actually thought the flawed or missing features were acceptable for release). That's the reason why I rarely complain in the EVE Online forums even if the game isn't perfect by a long shot - I can live with the imperfections because I know the devs can't simply go and see how Blizzard solved the problem and "borrow" their solution. They have to come up with everything so I'm also a lot more forgiving.

 

Possibility two (the less preferable but still acceptable one) is a "re-make" of an existing game with added features that justify a monthly sub and initial investment. This is the route that BW chose for SWTOR. Instead of creating a new and fresh game concept they simply "borrowed" what WOW has been doing successfully for years. So far I could live with this - it's not great and it's definitely not innovative by any stretch of the imagination but if your company can't come up with their own cool game concept then it's better to use an existing one that is proven to satisfy 10 million players enough so they stay subbed for years then coming up with some fail design of your own.

 

What really does disturb me (and make me rage) is that BW chose the easy way out (copy WOW) but didn't do it well enough to even be on-par with Rift (not to mention their actual primary competition which is still WOW).

 

So we got an outdated and non-innovative game concept but with all the drawbacks of a newly designed game concept.

 

 

I can only guess why... my money would be on BW being pressured by their investors to release before xmas while the game is still half-finished and thus neither on par with WOW-clones such as Rift nor offering enough "innovation" (or any for that matter) to justify its massive shortcomings.

 

 

But hey, if you think it's fun then that's great.

 

Doesn't stop me from calling BW on their crap money-grab tho.

 

 

Edit:

also on a special note:

my kids' college educations paid for

This is far from impossible. You could always move to a country where education is a right and not a privilege reserved for the wealthy. Like most of Europe for example.

Edited February 15, 2012 by gaalon

[GalacticKegger]

Bit of a failed analogy you got going there friend. I'm not asking for anything impossible - I'm asking for what other games have been delivering for years. I'm also not asking anyone to read my mind - it would be enough to read the patch notes of WOW from 2004 up until recently and see what features were implemented... After all Blizzard is not in the habit of implementing pointless features - they're a company and only do things that will either increase their income or secure future income. If Blizzard thinks it worth investing millions in an API so players can customize their UI and the game has millions of customers then they must be onto something... and they're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it for profit.

 

You're acting like I want something magical that can't exsist when I actually want one of two things:

 

Possibility one (the preferable one) is a new and fresh game experience. This may be fairly flawed at release because everything has to be designed from scratch and I can live with those flaws (and I'm not talking about bugs here - bugs are fairly irrelevant to me because they are mistakes made by human - what I have a problem with are dismal design choices - meaning that some BW game designer actually thought the flawed or missing features were acceptable for release). That's the reason why I rarely complain in the EVE Online forums even if the game isn't perfect by a long shot - I can live with the imperfections because I know the devs can't simply go and see how Blizzard solved the problem and "borrow" their solution. They have to come up with everything so I'm also a lot more forgiving.

 

Possibility two (the less preferable but still acceptable one) is a "re-make" of an existing game with added features that justify a monthly sub and initial investment. This is the route that BW chose for SWTOR. Instead of creating a new and fresh game concept they simply "borrowed" what WOW has been doing successfully for years. So far I could live with this - it's not great and it's definitely not innovative by any stretch of the imagination but if your company can't come up with their own cool game concept then it's better to use an existing one that is proven to satisfy 10 million players enough so they stay subbed for years then coming up with some fail design of your own.

 

What really does disturb me (and make me rage) is that BW chose the easy way out (copy WOW) but didn't do it well enough to even be on-par with Rift (not to mention their actual primary competition which is still WOW).

 

So we got an outdated and non-innovative game concept but with all the drawbacks of a newly designed game concept.

 

 

I can only guess why... my money would be on BW being pressured by their investors to release before xmas while the game is still half-finished and thus neither on par with WOW-clones such as Rift nor offering enough "innovation" (or any for that matter) to justify its massive shortcomings.

 

 

But hey, if you think it's fun then that's great.

 

Doesn't stop me from calling BW on their crap money-grab tho.

It's ok to call off the relationship. Though parading door to door through her neighborhood broadcasting the things other women have that she doesn't loud enough for her folks to hear is a bit over the top. Don't you think? Edited February 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[gaalon]

It's ok to call off the relationship. Though parading door to door through her neighborhood broadcasting the things other women have that she doesn't loud enough for her folks to hear is a bit over the top. Don't you think?

 

Well, in the case of my hypothetical (ex-)girlfriend I would have to agree with you. In the case of a paid service I would not agree with you - I would feel compelled to at least try and warn other people away from said service so they don't fall for the same thing. And if the provider of said service had a public forum for people to discuss the service then I'd be sure to vent my anger and frustration there as well (if not as a form of self-therapy then at least to try and get the provider of the service to get their act together instead of publishing press-releases claiming how great their service is).

 

Edit:

 

But again, I don't really want to spoil the game for you. If you're satisfied with the game then I'm glad for you. At least then you didn't waste money (like I feel I have by falling for the BW-PR-machine - which was admittedly naive of me).

Edited February 15, 2012 by gaalon

[Wazooty]

People who think this isn't a WOW clone are fooling themselves.

 

It's a WOW clone with half the features and content and voice acted leveling. So if by this game not being a wow clone you mean WoW is actually thorough and this isn't sure.