Why the Ettermoors are Fun... and Illum is Not

[Rhogn]

Another moors lifer here...my 2 cents....

 

What was good about it:

 

-Raid/small group and solo were all viable play styles

 

-in game voice - helpful for pugs coordinating and just socializing.

 

-As for the rewards for play in the moors - a big chunk of the pop was just there to pvp and the rewards freepside were pretty meaningless for a long time. I think part of the issue with Ilum (when combined with faction pop balance) is the rewards being required/desired. For the majority of lotro's life if it was 60 v 20 (or more likely 40 v 15) the larger pop group would loose interest/disband and move on fairly quickly as opposed to sitting and camping the few players on the opposing faction. Not to say GV/grams camps didn't/don't occur, but zerging gets old fast. The infamy required to go from 10 to 11 in lotro was so big that it kind of just become a result of playing as opposed to a all consuming focus on farming it 24/7.

 

*agree that the biggest challenge with lotro pvp was/is faction balance (1:1) - I like the mirror approach BW took to alleviate that. I logged into lotro the other night....it feels very sluggish and old now.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Rhogn

[The_Kane]

The OP makes a really good point and to me the biggest Swtor problem is pvp, it falls really short, I'm on Sith'ari(EU) and pvp is either Huttball or....Huttball, with the occasional chance of Ald WZ and Void star, Ilum pvp is just horrible, I mean you will get a 20 vs 20 fight occasionally(rarely cough) but thats is very concentrated on the middle and only last for about half an hour until one of the sides just gives up and all boringness breaks lose again, armament is a joke to.

Also would like to note that the game plays horribly when you have more then 30 ppl on the screen I mean its just a horrible lag, this game is just poor optimized for large amounts of players in the same area fighting.

This game could have been thought from ground up with pvp in mind that, it wouldn't ruined its pve aspect, but it seems they only thought in it from the pve aspect and right before the end of development they thought " hey we forgot about pvp, lets just stick this in there should be fine.".

I find PVE in this game brilliant, even tho after I hit 50 I started to struggle with the End Game content, and since I'm a pvp fan it only gets worse.

[unixbomber]

The Ettenmoors are a paradise of open world PVP. Players can spend all day there fighting for renown/infamy when the action is good, and running quests for great rewards when the action is bad.

 

I laughed pretty hard at this. Kudos.

[slonep]

What the hell are the Ettenmoors? Is that on Dromun Kaas?

 

This is a SWTOR forum dude.

 

Please keep it on topic.

[pherball]

Another thing ... Your on my server and your name is Tharak ?? Who are you ? I pvp more than anyone on this server and I have no idea who you are .... How are you in a position to tell people to make a change, When you have never even tried it?

 

Just because you have no life doesn't mean you are good at PvP. The fact that you think PvP in TOR is functional, challenging or fun immediately discounts everything you have or will say on the matter.

[DarthOvertone]

*agree that the biggest challenge with lotro pvp was/is faction balance (1:1) - I like the mirror approach BW took to alleviate that. I logged into lotro the other night....it feels very sluggish and old now.

 

Great observation. I logged into LOTRO again during the last SWTOR patch to fix the effed up patch just to pay my housing and get my 500 monthly TP. Went to the Moors again for kicks. The first realization that hit me was how slow the combat was compared to what I became used to here. One thing I love about this game is the combat. It's fast, quick, and the outcome really hinges on your choices (no auto-attack).

 

At the heart of this game, the combat is actually very good. Sure there are some class animation delays here and there, and you have some peeps that experience performance issues, but overall it's pretty smooth and fast. I really like it and that, if anything, bodes to some potential good times in SWTOR PvP if they can clean the other junk up. Big IF there though...

[iLLaDeLpHLife]

I thought I was the only one who played LOTRO

 

Moors were awesome and I have to agree.. I enjoyed PvP a lot there. If they attempt to duplicate or take ideas from anywhere... Moors are a good place to start. I was so sad when f2p couldnt pvp anymore =/

[jimlaheysadrunk]

Nope , I was the high school quarterback and I am very competitive. I HATE to get beat

 

i was the quarterback for the 85 Chicago Bears, i was also Refrigerator Perry and the Queen of England.

 

and as far as this guy being a "legend", the game isnt even 2 months old yet, nobody becomes a "legend" in under 60 days, and furthermore, nobody becomes a "legend" in a video game.

 

you guys who think youre so cool on a forum on the internet crack me up.

[Kunari]

I played LOTRO for 2 years.( I lived in the moors.) I am valor rank 72. I now live in Ilum. This game is awesome. Do not change anything ! Just keep adding to it BioWare...

 

Adding NPC's to Ilum doesn't sound like PVP improvements to me. Adding a bunch of gathering mats and PVE quests to the zone also doesn't seem like an improvement. Sorry OP but I don't see how they'd improve Ilum.

 

I'm on Ajunta Pall too and have teamed up with Coba many times. Ilum does have FPS issues, unlike other zones, so I do hope performance improvements are inbound.

 

 

 

I'm guessing your server is republic dominant, and the 2 years in the moors guy, creep or freep?

 

LOL, no Ajunta Pall is not a "Republic Dominant" server. There are many more Imperial than Repbulic players on Ajunta Pall. We're 99% underdog on Ilum, usually about 2:1 odds.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Kunari

[JMKnave]

I'm playing TOR because its PVE content blows LOTRO out of the water...

 

I stopped reading after this. You're playing for PVE and yet feel the need to give your opinions on PVP.

 

zzz

[AndiusTheGreat]

What the hell are the Ettenmoors? Is that on Dromun Kaas?

 

This is a SWTOR forum dude.

 

Please keep it on topic.

 

This is a topic that is meant to directly address the problems with Illum. The fact I draw my reference from another game does not mean that this topic isn't directly related to SWTOR.

 

Also to all of you talking about class imbalance in the Ettenmoors. Yes it was a problem, but it won't be an issue here as this game uses mirrored classes. I'm not suggesting they take all the moster classes from LOTRO and pit them up against Republic forces, I'm suggesting they add side content to the Illum PVP area and give control points NPC guards.

 

I stopped reading after this. You're playing for PVE and yet feel the need to give your opinions on PVP.

 

zzz

 

I generally PVP more than I PVE. I mean I played Darkfall for crying out loud. Open world PVP is actually about my favorite form of content in any game IF DONE WELL. But yes this is the only game I find PVE to be highly enjoyable in. I'm playing this as opposed to a pure PVP game because I like a variety of enjoyable content.

 

PVP in this game isn't that great and I think most honest people can admit that if they are at all honest with themselves. We can only assume that as time goes on they will add more warzones, hopefully for dear god's sake improve Illum, and possibly add some other forms of PVP like pod racing or maybe even open space combat. (They did say they are working on a special project they won't give details on yet for space.)

 

If there were no promise of PVP improvements I would drop my sub right now.

 

By the way. 39 valor may not be 72, but you still don't get it without hours and hours of PVP. Its not like I don't take advantage of the meager PVP opportunities we already have at all.

Edited February 9, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat

[Xerkics]

I think the Op gives very valuable feedback on how we could improve the mess that is illum , and idiots like Cobra should just go back to stroking their epeens in front of the mirror and stop trolling whats for a change a valuable and CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion. Edited February 9, 2012 by Xerkics

[CobraSnake]

I think the Op gives very valuable feedback on how we could improve the mess that is illum , and idiots like Cobra should just go back to stroking their epeens in front of the mirror and stop trolling whats for a change a valuable and CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion.

 

 

if i wanted to play in the moors, I would go back to LOTRO.

Edited February 9, 2012 by CobraSnake

[McVade]

Ok humor me. What does Illum have to offer that makes it a better experience than the Ettenmoors. I really want to know.

 

I'm playing TOR because its PVE content blows LOTRO out of the water, but from everything I've seen its bad excuse for Open World PVP is a joke.

 

I've outlined why I think so, I would like to see some counter points beyond. "I like it, and I've played it more than you."

 

No my character's name is Meuridiar so that his name/title can be Captain Meuridiar. I just hide his surname, and Tharak is his first name in RP. I've been to Illum on multiple occasions, utterly hated it, and left within 10 minutes every time except for ONCE when the sides were semi-even and I stayed half an hour before the imp raid fell to pieces and it resumed its usual state of monotony.

 

I've seen Meuridiar before. If I'm not mistaken, he spent like 20 minutes straight whining once that no one would share the daily with him, after everyone told him they'd already finished it and couldn't share it.

 

Sounds like he's doing the same thing here.

[AndiusTheGreat]

b/c if i wanted to play in the moors, I would go back to LOTRO.

 

And if people enjoyed Illum you might see more people out there on one of the most populated servers in this entire game.

 

There are currently 7 level 50's on in my guild. One of them is on Illum. Thats me. I'm doing PVE dailies.

 

If you want big epic battles all the time give people a reason to come there. I would be in the Illum PVP zone right now if I could run quests for daily commendations out there. I know whenever I was out questing in the moors and someone called "FREEPS ARE PUSHING TR" "CREEPS ARE PUSHING LUGS" I would ask for a raid invite. Why is it that I don't even give a damn what is happening in Illum?

Edited February 9, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat

[McVade]

1) Original poster made his point, while your statements are empty. Care to elaborate? Hmm?

 

2) Valor rank 72 means nothing. With all these exploits. Maybe you should prove it first?

 

3) So there's actually someone who love current Illum huh? LOL.

 

I'm on Ajunta Pall. I've been in about a dozen raids led by Cobra. He's the real deal.

[Cythis]

Both are bad designs imo. So whats the better of two bads. Lotro for PvE keeps in a PvP zone? Funny most uninstalled lotro too. BW needs to come up with something huge or its PvP community will leave when GW2 hits or even before. The bleeding has already started in our guild as well.

 

Honestly dont think this game was ever suppose to be about PvP but its their own fault for marketing as such at the CONs.

[AndiusTheGreat]

Both are bad designs imo. So whats the better of two bads. Lotro for PvE keeps in a PvP zone? Funny most uninstalled lotro too. BW needs to come up with something huge or its PvP community will leave when GW2 hits or even before. The bleeding has already started in our guild as well.

 

Honestly dont think this game was ever suppose to be about PvP but its their own fault for marketing as such at the CONs.

 

I really don't think the design of the actual zone was bad it all. The biggest problem out there was balance issues. Balance issues are prettymuch a given when one side can be played from level 10+ and one side requires you to be max level or at least close to it, to be at all effective.

 

TOR has perfectly balanced sides because aside from animations and armor appearance they are identical.

 

The point of having PVE in a PVP zone is because open world PVP is about random encounters. You don't run in to random encounters all that frequently while out questing on the general map (At least I didn't.) but you do run into them frequently in PVP designated areas with decent rewards. Also if people are out there doing that PVE content and the action gets hot it will be easy to get them in the big raid. Right now if the action heats up in Illum I likely won't even hear about it because I could care less who's winning the zerg. Especially if I've finished my daily.

 

If all we are looking for is mass scale battles we might as well just make 50 vs. 50 WZ

 

PS. This game isn't supposed to be about PVP but PVP is almost a requirement for any MMO which involves combat. People spend a long time building up their character's and they like to see how they measure up against players. Its not like we are playing Harvest Moon Online. This game is filled with guns, lightsabers, and people who like to use them. As such it is prettymuch an expectation that they have PVP, and that the PVP not be lame. Whether they set up that expectation or not.

Edited February 9, 2012 by AndiusTheGreat

[Husanak]

OP is right...

 

Ettermoons >>> then Illum

 

I have no idea how anyone could even compare the two... Illum is a terrible attempt at open world pvp. Is the Ettermoons the best example of open world PvP in MMO history... no.

 

However considering LOTRO was / is pretty much a 100% focused PvE game the fact that they have a system that puts Biowares "PvP Develops" too shame is well, shameful. lol

 

Speaking of which I think my LOTRO sub is still good... off too the Ettermoons.

[Boreus]

I think the basic concept behind Ilum is fine, but I don't like how all the emphasis seems to be on holding mid because of those stupid boxes. The rest of the map may as well not exist, except for the few people who bother to cap the bases, which doesn't even happen if there is a zergfest going on. 90% of the time there are two groups standing apart from each other; someone from one group gets too close to the other group and gets grappled or force-pulled, and the zerg kills him. Rinse and repeat 150 times until the weekly is done. There needs to be incentive to go out and fight over bases, instead of people just saying "nah, too much trouble".

[Vinak]

Just give us classic emain macha...

[Rogmar]

Lord of the Rings PvP was ****. LOL. As broken as SWTOR PvP is, at least it has some sort of balance system with mirrors classes. LOTRO PvP was just ridiculously imbalanced. Edited February 9, 2012 by Rogmar

[Livingston]

if you think the open world pvp in ettenmoors is good, you haven't played dark age of camelot, lol.

 

qft..........

[Coltainedark]

Can't really speak for the LOTRO comparison, but god Ilum is brutal.

 

I've done my daily for the last 7 days on Ilum on Daragon Trail. 2 of those day my kills were actually financed with PvP.

 

Today was probably my best day on Ilum, because there was decently even numbers of Sith to Pubs - 20 Sith and 15 Pubs. They made it even by base camping and grabbing the turret. Although, lovely design by the game designers which causes my client to lock for a full 1.5 secs when someone gets on the turret and experience 1-4 FPS during the worst times. And that is only with 35 people.

 

Just brutal.

[Yardbird]

I have never been to Ilum, and all the sass about it makes me never want to set foot there. And when people start waxing nostalgic for LotRO PvP I get pretty weirded out (really that bad?).

 

But I did have plenty of laughs there, playing evil-side.