Knockbacks! Plz .. enough already!

[Christonya]

Fine as is (and I play one of the few AC's with no knockback - Powertech).

 

"It's FINE! I get a charge, and I can just pull them off, or just use my ranged abilitys"

 

Lol.

 

 

@OP I completely agree, half, literally half of the classes in this game have a knock back --- Knock backs should be exclusive to one, maybe two. Why? So they feel powerful that they have a strong ability, not use it and have every one go "Oh hay, another knock back"

[Airoper]

well today was a good day. i watched a few more people fry in fire vents so im happy!

[Dakan]

Knockbacks are fine. Just like the rest of CC in this game.

 

Everyone wants to kill the enemy they have targeted, but sometimes, it just doesn't happen.

 

That's PvP.

 

As much as you QQ want it, there is no "I WIN" button in PvP.

[Ssfbistimg]

your doing it wrong, you when they leap into the air just run, either way on the walkway, the same player will avoid it from me every time, it works and i die.

 

i dont have to jump to knockback. Troopers just sit there and bam knockback

[Ssfbistimg]

Knockbacks are fine. Just like the rest of CC in this game.

 

Everyone wants to kill the enemy they have targeted, but sometimes, it just doesn't happen.

 

That's PvP.

 

As much as you QQ want it, there is no "I WIN" button in PvP.

 

Lol you must not read the posts about Tracer Missile/Grav Round. All the bads think that it is I Win Button

[Lushbits]

As an Operative, Huttball is incredibly annoying and sometimes almost impossible to play due to constant Knockbacks. I am sick and tired of it guys.

 

I get on the ramp, BAM I get get knocked back down;

I run back up ... BAM ... I get knocked back again; this repeats continuously.

 

We already have positioning requirements to do any decent damage. And I don't care if I get knock back into Acid or Fire once in a while. I can position myself properly for that most of the time; but it's very hard to avoid getting knocked back off the ramp.

 

Just 1 ability totally negates my role. It does not have to kill me outright, but just 1 knockback will remove me from being able to chase the enemy Ball Carrier or to help my team's BC. I mean come on !

 

I could make a video but it's pointless. Everyone knows how bad it is, but those who do it a lot will just jump up and say it's fine. Well sorry, it is not fine. And those same people will start talking about skill and l2p. What skill is involved in pushing a single button and removing your opponent(s) from play?

 

BW, are there any plans to address this?

QFT

 

Totally agree, it's annoying as hell. It's one of the main reasons for my cancellation. Still have 15 days to go or something, so I hope they respond to this fairly quick.

 

I would suggest, for operatives and scoundrels a 60 sec CD which makes you knockback immune for 10/15 seconds (also pushes and pulls of any kind) - Maybe named "Steady feet" / "Cat's balance" or whatever.

 

That would GREATLY increase our role in Huttball, as well as compensating a bit for our crappy dps post patch.

[Edensexile]

^This.

 

This is why I stopped playing my scoundrel finally at 42 and made a Sentinel. And although I am still very prone to getting locked down by CC, I atleast have the mobility of force leap to compensate.

 

I cannot stand the mobility issues that Scoundrels and OPs have. It can take forever to get to a ball carrier stealthed, only to get knocked down immediately and have no way to get back up to the top in a hurry.

 

Every other class has an ability that increases movement speed, pulls targets, or leaps to targets. As a melee dps, you need to be able to close the gap, and Scounds/OPs just cant.

[Ponos-Tromeros]

^This.

 

This is why I stopped playing my scoundrel finally at 42 and made a Sentinel. And although I am still very prone to getting locked down by CC, I atleast have the mobility of force leap to compensate.

 

I cannot stand the mobility issues that Scoundrels and OPs have. It can take forever to get to a ball carrier stealthed, only to get knocked down immediately and have no way to get back up to the top in a hurry.

 

Every other class has an ability that increases movement speed, pulls targets, or leaps to targets. As a melee dps, you need to be able to close the gap, and Scounds/OPs just cant.

 

You playing the worst class in the game and you gave up scoundrel for that? *Rolls eyes*

 

 

All the good players of this class laugh at the OP.You want a knockback also after having a gizilion stuns lmao.Omg look at that us maras have charge lets use to go up to ledge!Nope we got knockedback also.ok let try something else!Opps a scoundrel came out of stealth and stunned us.Let us use our unleash!!Woo we got healed also using that.lets kill that sneaky scoundrel now.What we are stunned again hows that possible?!Ok ok lets wait we got him after the stun.Yes ready to kill gim!Omg we stunned again??!!Look at that we are dead..Good day to your sir please cancel your sub and try to find a game that can provide you with instawin button.

 

You should be ashamed of youself saying you guys need a gap filler. *Rolls eyes again*

[Ich_Bin]

I do agree that Operatives/Scoundrels seem to be the weakest Huttball class in terms of contributing to the team. They get pushed around a lot (without being able to push anyone else around) and end up in the pit.

And because they have no movement ability when they end up down there they have to walk all the way back to the middle and up the ramps.

 

Don't get me wrong, they can still earn a lot of medals... But I don't think that's what Huttball should be about.

As an Operative/Scoundrel you seem to be never in touch of things. When you're trying to help your team scoring they are always miles ahead of you and when you have finally reached them they have usually already scored. When you're trying to prevent the opposing team from scoring again they are usually miles ahead of you and before you reach them they have scored.

So what options do Operatives/Scoundrels have in Huttball? Pretty much only staying in the middle of the map and picking out targets. Of course this can be fun, but I don't think this can be called "working as intended".

[Budizzle]

As a Marauder I think the knockbacks in the game are a bit ridiculous. I could probably live with the knockback in its own right, but the added CC component at the end of it is just pretty ridiculously overpowered, especially if Charge is on a cooldown.

 

If I get knocked back to a pit from any of the upper levels, it's basically hoping I can crawl away fast enough after burning my defensives.

 

I do agree that Operatives/Scoundrels seem to be the weakest Huttball class in terms of contributing to the team. They get pushed around a lot (without being able to push anyone else around) and end up in the pit.

And because they have no movement ability when they end up down there they have to walk all the way back to the middle and up the ramps.

 

Don't get me wrong, they can still earn a lot of medals... But I don't think that's what Huttball should be about.

As an Operative/Scoundrel you seem to be never in touch of things. When you're trying to help your team scoring they are always miles ahead of you and when you have finally reached them they have usually already scored. When you're trying to prevent the opposing team from scoring again they are usually miles ahead of you and before you reach them they have scored.

So what options do Operatives/Scoundrels have in Huttball? Pretty much only staying in the middle of the map and picking out targets. Of course this can be fun, but I don't think this can be called "working as intended".

 

I think having easily the best burst damage (even after the nerf) and ganking stragglers can be construed as "contributing to the team," especially with the nature of force field lockout. I'm not saying there's not tons of things wrong with class balances in general, just that your class fills a niche very nicely.

 

Stealth and stuns are the cornerstone of your class, and basically allows you to fill your role. My movement depends completely on charge, yours depends on stealth.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Budizzle

[Ankhkharu]

I think Operative needs short range jump-like ability (a la Kaliyo knife jump) 1 min cd 15 meter range.

 

1 min cd is long enough for this ability to have very situational use and guarantee against spamming it while giving a fighting chance after being knocked down at pivotal moment in Huttball.

 

One Sorc with 20 sec cd knockback can completly eliminate you from the fight and force to run all way around to come back up which is usually too late. And then he can knock you back again.

[Metalmac]

Operatives get one of the most powerful CC in the game -> Flash bang. Thats what you would have to give up for a knockback. And Flash bang is far more useful when capping an objective.

 

Knockbacks are easy to avoid getting knocked off platforms, its called situational awareness. Make sure you always have enough room behind yourself when in combat with a knockback class, and dont let them position you so that you can get knocked off a ledge.

 

Flash bang is worthless as every friggn idiot in the game is tossing AOE all the time so the 6 second Flash Bang is almost a waste of time 80% of the time. Any damage at all break it.

 

You have knockbacks used on cooldown, any AOE damage used on cooldown.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Metalmac

[Metalmac]

You playing the worst class in the game and you gave up scoundrel for that? *Rolls eyes*

 

 

All the good players of this class laugh at the OP.You want a knockback also after having a gizilion stuns lmao.Omg look at that us maras have charge lets use to go up to ledge!Nope we got knockedback also.ok let try something else!Opps a scoundrel came out of stealth and stunned us.Let us use our unleash!!Woo we got healed also using that.lets kill that sneaky scoundrel now.What we are stunned again hows that possible?!Ok ok lets wait we got him after the stun.Yes ready to kill gim!Omg we stunned again??!!Look at that we are dead..Good day to your sir please cancel your sub and try to find a game that can provide you with instawin button.

 

You should be ashamed of youself saying you guys need a gap filler. *Rolls eyes again*

 

You truely suck at PVP if a single Scroundrel could kill both of you.

[Metalmac]

 

I think having easily the best burst damage (even after the nerf) and ganking stragglers can be construed as "contributing to the team," especially with the nature of force field lockout. I'm not saying there's not tons of things wrong with class balances in general, just that your class fills a niche very nicely.

 

Stealth and stuns are the cornerstone of your class, and basically allows you to fill your role. My movement depends completely on charge, yours depends on stealth.

 

 

Explain why Steath has to move so slow?

 

Why does movement speed (slower then normal) equal Stealth?

 

Please explain this logic?

 

Our Sneek should double our speed for 6 seconds also.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Metalmac

[Ich_Bin]

I think having easily the best burst damage (even after the nerf) and ganking stragglers can be construed as "contributing to the team," especially with the nature of force field lockout. I'm not saying there's not tons of things wrong with class balances in general, just that your class fills a niche very nicely.

 

Stealth and stuns are the cornerstone of your class, and basically allows you to fill your role. My movement depends completely on charge, yours depends on stealth.

 

You are right in that class balances are decent in general and that Operative/Scoundrel is a great and fun class to play. And as I said it's really easy to get 8-10 medals in Huttball. But still I am not contributing too much to my team.

 

I have a lvl 50 Scoundrel (valor rank 60) and a level 24 Sentinel (I think valor around 18). Guess which one has scored more often in Huttball?

Whenever I play Huttball with friends in Teamspeak they are really engaged and say stuff like "I'll force leap over there", "I've thrown that guy in the pit", "I'll pull you up", "I'll charge" etc. while I am just like "Uhm okay I'll hang over here and try to kill some guys" lol.

Also whenever I get the ball I am just trying to find a Vanguard, Consular, Jedi Knight or ANYONE ELSE to give the ball to. And when one of those classes is carrying the ball they would be very foolish to give it to me because there is so much more that they can do with it.

I feel very much like the kid in high school that sucked at basket ball and was never given the ball to play with. And whenever it recieved the ball by accident it would just throw it to one of the decent players immediately.

 

The Scoundrel's/Operative's main tool is stealth which is not available while carrying the ball (for very good reasons). BUT all the other classes still have their full arsenal while carrying the ball. Pushing people off ledges, force leaping, force sprinting, pulling, charging etc.

I don't know an easy solution to this problem but still it needs to be addressed at some point in the future.

[Lushbits]

Our Sneek should double our speed for 6 seconds also.

Good idea. That would give us a bit more mobility. Although I really think we need some sort of anti-knockback. I feel like a friggin pinball in most matches, with all the knockbacks, pushes and pulls. Edited February 9, 2012 by Lushbits

[VincentWolf]

This is a mechanic of the huttball. You knock people down good, you win, you don't -- you lose. I'm a commando with 2 knockbacks, one at a very short cd, and I, myself also being knocked down very often. Position yourself so you werent' kicked down. If they remove kicks then huttball will be too easy, oh yeah, hell, let's give operatives/smugglers immunity to knockbacks, let them just line up at enemy side and toss the ball around until the very score!

[Budizzle]

Explain why Steath has to move so slow?

 

Why does movement speed (slower then normal) equal Stealth?

 

Please explain this logic?

 

Our Sneek should double our speed for 6 seconds also.

 

From a lore perspective -- and probably just common sense -- "sneak" is considered a slow function. I know that's not what you were asking, but it's still valid in some sense.

 

Disregarding that, stealth would just be silly overpowered if you could move full speed. Stealth was not designed so you could just run people down and then vanish; it's intended for gaining the element of surprise at the cost of movement impairment. Stealth is still the reason why Operatives are such a threat to everyone when caught by surprise.

 

It probably wouldn't be overpowering if there were skills that increased movement speed while hidden by a small amount, but it should never ever be equivalent to unstealthed speed.

 

 

You are right in that class balances are decent in general and that Operative/Scoundrel is a great and fun class to play. And as I said it's really easy to get 8-10 medals in Huttball. But still I am not contributing too much to my team.

 

I have a lvl 50 Scoundrel (valor rank 60) and a level 24 Sentinel (I think valor around 18). Guess which one has scored more often in Huttball?

Whenever I play Huttball with friends in Teamspeak they are really engaged and say stuff like "I'll force leap over there", "I've thrown that guy in the pit", "I'll pull you up", "I'll charge" etc. while I am just like "Uhm okay I'll hang over here and try to kill some guys" lol.

Also whenever I get the ball I am just trying to find a Vanguard, Consular, Jedi Knight or ANYONE ELSE to give the ball to. And when one of those classes is carrying the ball they would be very foolish to give it to me because there is so much more that they can do with it.

I feel very much like the kid in high school that sucked at basket ball and was never given the ball to play with. And whenever it recieved the ball by accident it would just throw it to one of the decent players immediately.

 

The Scoundrel's/Operative's main tool is stealth which is not available while carrying the ball (for very good reasons). BUT all the other classes still have their full arsenal while carrying the ball. Pushing people off ledges, force leaping, force sprinting, pulling, charging etc.

I don't know an easy solution to this problem but still it needs to be addressed at some point in the future.

 

"I have this, BUT I WANT THAT TOO!"

 

This is the case of gimme without any real justification. I'm a Marauder and I would like stealth. Gimme.

 

Gimme.

 

Just because you don't score the ball in Huttball doesn't mean that you aren't actively contributing to your team. Every single person you kill or incapacitate removes that piece of the opposition's support.

 

It's simple. Operatives were designed for exceptional burst damage, and no one will disagree that they still excel at it. They were made for jousting, and they are insanely good at contributing to their team in that capacity. They have a very defined role. I'm sorry you do not like it.

 

Maybe they weren't designed to cap the ball. I see no problem here.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Budizzle

[Ich_Bin]

"I have this, BUT I WANT THAT TOO!"

 

This is the case of gimme without any real justification. I'm a Marauder and I would like stealth. Gimme.

 

Gimme.

 

Just because you don't score the ball in Huttball doesn't mean that you aren't actively contributing to your team. Every single person you kill or incapacitate removes that piece of the opposition's support.

 

It's simple. Operatives were designed for exceptional burst damage, and no one will disagree that they still excel at it. They were made for jousting, and they are insanely good at contributing to their team in that capacity. They have a very defined role. I'm sorry you do not like it.

 

Maybe they weren't designed to cap the ball. I see no problem here.

 

You either A) don't understand my point/didn't read my post thoroughly

and/or B) never played a Scoundrel/Operative in Huttball

 

 

In Huttball (in terms of scoring) stealth was TAKEN from us (as I mentioned before: for very good reasons). Yet all other classes can sprint, leap, pull and whatever have you while carrying the ball. Don't you understand that?

But your way of discussing about this clearly shows that you are not interested in a discussion based on facts, so I probably shouldn't bother.

 

I have one followup question though: Is running around and ganking players on Alderaan/Voidstar also "contributing to the team" in your book? Because that is about the same thing as not staying in touch with the ball carrier in Huttball.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Lushbits]

It's simple. Operatives were designed for exceptional burst damage, and no one will disagree that they still excel at it.

 

I disagree.

 

So will a lot of operatives out there post patch. We do about equal burst to any other class now. We were designed for it, but somehow, due to CAREFUL mathematics over at Camp Mythic, they decided that 20% - EXACTLY 20%, not 19.23 %, but 20% - was the correct number to tone down Operatives with.

 

20% off the opener and 20% off the armor pen.

 

The problem is that our only intended use as been reduced/removed without any utility compensation.

[KruelhandJorb]

if they made the CC breaking abilities give a short immunity, or on a shorter cooldown then knockbacks wouldn't be nearly as noticable. The real problems are class mechanic taht knock you back and root or snare/stun you. If a Sorc specs for the root he can knock you off a ledge in HB and you're rooted and has several options to keep you off of him while dealing damage to you, once you get back on him he still has 2 or 3 options to evade you not to mention a bubble.

 

Agents are similar, you can't even charge them in cover so you have to approach them from another path, they can just stun you the moment you get on them and load up their full rotation on you and it's gg.

 

I'm curious if BW realizes how much CC they put in this game for range classes Vs the lack of anti-kiting they give the few melee classes in game. I feel as a Sentinel I have enough abilities to catch someone, or at least a logical amount but with Sorc/Sage and Ops/Smug having way to many options to keep you from touching them, especially in Huttball.

[Budizzle]

You either A) don't understand my point/didn't read my post thoroughly

and/or B) never played a Scoundrel/Operative in Huttball

 

 

In Huttball (in terms of scoring) stealth was TAKEN from us (as I mentioned before: for very good reasons). Yet all other classes can sprint, leap, pull and whatever have you while carrying the ball. Don't you understand that?

But your way of discussing about this clearly shows that you are not interested in a discussion based on facts, so I probably shouldn't bother.

 

Maybe you didn't read this part:

 

Maybe they weren't designed to cap the ball. I see no problem here.

 

I'm not saying that's absolutely the case, but really Operatives have lots of other advantages. Just because you don't cap the ball doesn't mean you don't contribute to your team.

 

 

I have one followup question though: Is running around and ganking players on Alderaan/Voidstar also "contributing to the team" in your book? Because that is about the same thing as not staying in touch with the ball carrier in Huttball.

 

Yes, that is literally contributing to the team. The more players that are decommissioned on the opposing team, the less pressure is on your team to attack or defend an objective. Even on defense in Voidstar, the opposing team still has to run back to the doors after dying. That's all critical alleviation on your healers/team.

 

Also, I didn't imply that you would be "out of touch" of the carrier on Huttball. Just that you would be supporting or attacking him in a more indirect way -- by taking the opposing team off the playing field, incapacitating healers, etc etc. You don't always have to be dry humping the ball carrier to be utility for your team.

 

I disagree.

 

So will a lot of operatives out there post patch. We do about equal burst to any other class now. We were designed for it, but somehow, due to CAREFUL mathematics over at Camp Mythic, they decided that 20% - EXACTLY 20%, not 19.23 %, but 20% - was the correct number to tone down Operatives with.

 

20% off the opener and 20% off the armor pen.

 

The problem is that our only intended use as been reduced/removed without any utility compensation.

 

Well you're wrong. Operatives/Smugglers have the potential to do more controlled burst damage in a few globals than any other class in the game, rivaled only by snipers that I've seen (which rely on cover). The difference post nerf is that this burst doesn't have the stopping power that it did before.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Budizzle

[Manigma]

You are right in that class balances are decent in general and that Operative/Scoundrel is a great and fun class to play. And as I said it's really easy to get 8-10 medals in Huttball. But still I am not contributing too much to my team.

 

I have a lvl 50 Scoundrel (valor rank 60) and a level 24 Sentinel (I think valor around 18). Guess which one has scored more often in Huttball?

Whenever I play Huttball with friends in Teamspeak they are really engaged and say stuff like "I'll force leap over there", "I've thrown that guy in the pit", "I'll pull you up", "I'll charge" etc. while I am just like "Uhm okay I'll hang over here and try to kill some guys" lol.

Also whenever I get the ball I am just trying to find a Vanguard, Consular, Jedi Knight or ANYONE ELSE to give the ball to. And when one of those classes is carrying the ball they would be very foolish to give it to me because there is so much more that they can do with it.

I feel very much like the kid in high school that sucked at basket ball and was never given the ball to play with. And whenever it recieved the ball by accident it would just throw it to one of the decent players immediately.

 

The Scoundrel's/Operative's main tool is stealth which is not available while carrying the ball (for very good reasons). BUT all the other classes still have their full arsenal while carrying the ball. Pushing people off ledges, force leaping, force sprinting, pulling, charging etc.

I don't know an easy solution to this problem but still it needs to be addressed at some point in the future.

You could be the best surprise to score in your premade - stealth to enemy goal area - wait for pass - score, sadly though this means you are one player short when supporting the ball carrier or trying to get the ball back.

 

I find our most useful tactic in huttball is to stealth up to when they are about to walk over the fire and hidden strike or root them if they have full resolve - but again a lot of premades just pass it ahead so it isn't always that great.

[Ich_Bin]

You could be the best surprise to score in your premade - stealth to enemy goal area - wait for pass - score, sadly though this means you are one player short when supporting the ball carrier or trying to get the ball back.

 

I find our most useful tactic in huttball is to stealth up to when they are about to walk over the fire and hidden strike or root them if they have full resolve - but again a lot of premades just pass it ahead so it isn't always that great.

 

Unfortunately the other classes are just too fast even with the ball that it's hard to keep up with them. In stealth it seems almost impossible.

Also you get blocked by the fire much more often than other classes who can leap over/run throug it which slows you down even more.

[RealAeiouy]

if they made the CC breaking abilities give a short immunity, or on a shorter cooldown then knockbacks wouldn't be nearly as noticable. The real problems are class mechanic taht knock you back and root or snare/stun you. If a Sorc specs for the root he can knock you off a ledge in HB and you're rooted and has several options to keep you off of him while dealing damage to you, once you get back on him he still has 2 or 3 options to evade you not to mention a bubble.

 

Agents are similar, you can't even charge them in cover so you have to approach them from another path, they can just stun you the moment you get on them and load up their full rotation on you and it's gg.

 

I'm curious if BW realizes how much CC they put in this game for range classes Vs the lack of anti-kiting they give the few melee classes in game. I feel as a Sentinel I have enough abilities to catch someone, or at least a logical amount but with Sorc/Sage and Ops/Smug having way to many options to keep you from touching them, especially in Huttball.

 

Good thing it is not a 1v1 game, so none of those things matter