_Zorth_ Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 sigh... Both George Lucas and Leeland Chee have stated that nothing that happens after ROTJ is canon. Would be nice if you could link it, I only remember GL himself saying that in his own mind there is no EU at all, There is no old republic or new republic.. Nothing happens, Only the movies are what's known about that universe. But he never said that anything after RoTJ is non-canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That depends really. He was killed, but came back, but then he was eventually defeated mainly by Luke. According to George Lucas, that never happened. The films stopped at the emperor's death in the second death star, the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Would be nice if you could link it, I only remember GL himself saying that in his own mind there is no EU at all, There is no old republic or new republic.. Nothing happens, Only the movies are what's known about that universe. But he never said that anything after RoTJ is non-canon. TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?" LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..." http://web.archive.org/web/20070915055658/http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=152583&start=30 here is Leeland Chee he posts under tastytaste Now the George Lucas quote could be considered just him talking out his *** but combine that with leeland Chee (the guy in charge of Canon) then it all makes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxiez Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Nah, we're all doing it wrong. Cannon should be derived from Timothy Zahn and Bio-ware. We'll allow George Lucas his fan fiction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?" LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..." http://web.archive.org/web/20070915055658/http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa?threadID=152583&start=30 here is Leeland Chee he posts under tastytaste Now the George Lucas quote could be considered just him talking out his *** but combine that with leeland Chee (the guy in charge of Canon) then it all makes He also stated there are two different universes, where none of the canon happens besides TCW and the saga, which is his own universe and this other universe where the EU resides, when talking about this stuff, you have to designate which universe you are talking about, this is Lordporkin's thread, so it is up to that user, which universe we debate in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He also stated there are two different universes, where none of the canon happens besides TCW and the saga, which is his own universe and this other universe where the EU resides, when talking about this stuff, you have to designate which universe you are talking about, this is Lordporkin's thread, so it is up to that user, which universe we debate in. again for the EU stuff to be considered Canon it has to conform with G-canon. then in the EU it is considered G-canon So all of the Old Republic, Shadows of the Empire and anything else pre ROTJ is considered G-Canon in the EU. So even in the EU universe all Post ROTJ is considered non canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Lando Calrissian would have killed the Emperor when he blew up the 2nd death star. The only major difference Luke played was getting Vader to go back to the station leaving Han and co to take down the shield. No not really. If Luke didnt go find Obi Wan. They never would of met Han gone out to go to Alderraan and run into the Death Star, save Leia whch return to that rebel moon base and blow up the 1st Death Star. The Rebel fleet would of been shot down attempting to blow up that Death Star cause Obi Wan assisted Luke into using the force to guide the proton torpedo into the exhaust shaft. So without Luke there would of been 2 Death Stars running around blowing up planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 again for the EU stuff to be considered Canon it has to conform with G-canon. then in the EU it is considered G-canon So all of the Old Republic, Shadows of the Empire and anything else pre ROTJ is considered G-Canon in the EU. So even in the EU universe all Post ROTJ is considered non canon. But Post-ROTJ does conform to the G-canon, Vader killed himself and Darth Sidious, as described by Lucas, he fulfilled the prophecy, Sidious just cheated death, he came back much later on sure, but Luke, Brand and co. fixed that, probably the will of the force, and Sidious suffered the doomed he was meant to, Sidious broke the rules of death sure, but he didn't break the prophecy or G-canon. In the EU universe, it is canon, in Lucas' universe, nothing beyond the films or TCW is canon, G canon is only a term used in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyRath Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 But Post-ROTJ does conform to the G-canon, Vader killed himself and Darth Sidious, as described by Lucas, he fulfilled the prophecy, Sidious just cheated death, he came back much later on sure, but Luke, Brand and co.fixed that, It doesn't conform to the movies. The Prophecy of the one states: "...It also indicated that this being [the one] would, in restoring balance, destroy the Sith, who were the cause of unbalance, with their use of the dark side of the Force." Anakin Skywalker was The Chosen One, and he destroyed the Sith. Saying that "sure Palpie came back, but Luke and his friends fixed that" goes against what Is said In the movies. probably the will of the force, and Sidious suffered the doomed he was meant to, Sidious broke the rules of death sure, but he didn't break the prophecy or G-canon. If Luke kills the Emperor for good that breaks the Prophecy since Lucas has clearly stated that Anakin was the Chosen One, not Luke and that the Chosen One will bring Balance to The Force by destroying the Sith I.E. the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It doesn't conform to the movies. The Prophecy of the one states: "...It also indicated that this being [the one] would, in restoring balance, destroy the Sith, who were the cause of unbalance, with their use of the dark side of the Force." Anakin Skywalker was The Chosen One, and he destroyed the Sith. Saying that "sure Palpie came back, but Luke and his friends fixed that" goes against what Is said In the movies. If Luke kills the Emperor for good that breaks the Prophecy since Lucas has clearly stated that Anakin was the Chosen One, not Luke and that the Chosen One will bring Balance to The Force by destroying the Sith I.E. the Emperor. He does kill him, he is dead, his spirit kept existing, that's it, he is still for all intents and purposes DEAD, he just had the knowledge and technique to insert himself into a new body, Anakin killed him, he was dead, the Rule of Two Sith were gone, prophecy fulfilled. six years later, Sidious inserted his spirit into a new body, and used it as a host, he kept using this and his bodies died, his spirit was for all intents and purposes just that, a spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) But Post-ROTJ does conform to the G-canon, Vader killed himself and Darth Sidious, as described by Lucas, he fulfilled the prophecy, Sidious just cheated death, he came back much later on sure, but Luke, Brand and co. fixed that, probably the will of the force, and Sidious suffered the doomed he was meant to, Sidious broke the rules of death sure, but he didn't break the prophecy or G-canon. In the EU universe, it is canon, in Lucas' universe, nothing beyond the films or TCW is canon, G canon is only a term used in the EU. again even with that having George Lucas and Leeland Chee say that there is nothing after RotJ that is G-canon should be enough. I mean George Lucas very clearly says The Emperor is not cloned. But yeah like others have said if the Emperor is cloned then it doesn't bring any balance to the force. I mean the prophcy clearly states Anakin will destroy the sith. If the Emperor can come back then he didn't destroy him and the Sith is still around. Edited February 8, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galadimana Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) (I'm probably making a lot of unfounded assumptions here, but this is just me.) IMO, the reason Vader turned was that he saw his son, the flesh of his own flesh, refuse to fight the Emperor in the bravest act of defiance he had ever seen against his "Master". He saw that the Emperor killing Luke (through him) would be a hollow victory, because it would not be a victory in battle, but a slaughter, and that Luke was willing to suffer that fate, as Obi Wan was some years before. After refusing his own offer to rule the galaxy together. And then his Master then offered Luke a place at his side, in Vader's place, iirc. And I for one do ascribe the failure of the Imperial fleet in part to the death of Palpatine - the fleet does seem to act less 'in concert' after his death. Timothy Zahn, as 'non-canonical' as GL says his work is, did a brilliant job of answering several questions GL saw fit not to answer, and provides great justifications or many things that the original movies made little sense on. Flame away, this is my personal interpretation of how that last sequence worked out. Also, Yub-yub, because THAT's the right ending to the story, NOT Enya. Edited February 8, 2012 by galadimana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes, like the fact that Luke didn't kill the Emperor. Because he didn't die. He did die, just had several clones as backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonimator Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 again even with that having George Lucas and Leeland Chee say that there is nothing after RotJ that is G-canon should be enough. I mean George Lucas very clearly says The Emperor is not cloned. But yeah like others have said if the Emperor is cloned then it doesn't bring any balance to the force. I mean the prophcy clearly states Anakin will destroy the sith. If the Emperor can come back then he didn't destroy him and the Sith is still around. FINALLY you refer to what they were saying as G-canon... previously you've just been saying "Lucas and Chee say that nothing after RotJ is canon, period." But it's still C-canon. Lucas may say the prophecy is true, but Lucas' take on the prophecy and its meaning is pretty simplistic even for Star Wars. It dumbs down the entire universe. "Anakin destroys the Emperor, destroying the Sith and ending evil in the universe forever! Everyone parties with Ewoks till the end of time." That's more boring than a special effect without a story, to bring up another Lucas saying. Regardless of what George says (he has a habit of painting Star Wars with a broad, simplistic brush when asked about elements of the Saga, or about what happens after), the prophecy is a PROPHECY. Open to a wide degree of interpretation. Many Jedi didn't believe in it, as it was ancient; of those that did, none believed it'd come to fruition via the Chosen One falling to the dark side and wiping out most of the Jedi Order, then being redeemed by his son. The prophecy was true 'from a certain point of view'. The Emperor cheating death, or other Sith Lords rising, years after Endor has no bearing on the prophecy (and as Mara Jade told Luke in the Hand of Thrawn duology, she was never convinced the Reborn Emperor was ever really Palpatine at all; Zahn doesn't go into detail about what she thought he WAS, tho, but I took it to be some mad echo of him, perhaps, like raw power in a new vessel, but not TRULY the Sith Lord returned). The Force was balanced for a few years...and then maybe it wasn't. But not in the same way as during the PT/OT... the Force was just growing again. Growing pains. Did the prophecy say "evil would be ended for all time and no darkness would taint the Force"? Even if it did, why should anyone believe that to be true in a galaxy of trillions of sentients and new generations of Force-users being born all the time after the Banite Sith were destroyed? It may not be G-canon, but so what? It's still canon, until George gives the order to negate everything that happened after RotJ. But he won't, because it's still bringing in money for him. And even the stuff pre-RotJ isn't ALL G-canon... I'm sure there's plenty of stuff in the novels written while the prequels were being released that was overwritten by something we then saw in the next film, or in TCW perhaps... like Adi Gallia, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Saesee Tiin, Plo Koon, and more Council members using non-blue/green sabers in video games, comics, and action figures (though Wookieepedia, if not Leland Chee, has some silly explanations for why those alternate colors are still 'canon' for those various Dark Horse stories). I hated Lucas' "green & blue ONLY except for the rarest purple, and all baddies use red" idea, but I didn't mind it so much that it was applied ONLY to the Saga era, leaving post-RotJ and the KOTOR-type pre-Ruusan eras untouched (until TOR's limited color choices, that is). TL;DR, calling everything post-RotJ non-canon is probably as misguided as calling everything RotJ-and-earlier G-canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunTzusArtofWar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Luke doesn't have a story, all the movies are about vader. This^ The Star Wars movies are all about The tragedy and redemption of Darth Vader. It changes perspectives but it is still just illustrating part of his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucesim Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Without Luke, the battle of endor as we know it probably would not have happened. The 1st DS destroys Yavin IV and scatters the rebellion to the four corners of the galaxy. It may not have destroyed the rebellion, but it would have inflicted a blow that would take years to recover from. Cheers Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If Luke hadn't been in the first Death Star run, the Empire would have destroyed Yavin and ended the rebellion. I'd say that's a pretty important role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 again even with that having George Lucas and Leeland Chee say that there is nothing after RotJ that is G-canon should be enough. I mean George Lucas very clearly says The Emperor is not cloned. New development, but it still is not so easy. Even if post ROTJ-material is not on par canon-wise with the movies, it is not like that authors can do anything and in major story points it is not allowed to do anything. Chewbacca could die in a book, but until nobody could do something about the death of Luke, Leia or Han. So it was nearly revolutionary for EU-terms, when Legacy showed a post-Luke universe and even a force-ghost-Luke, but even then there was told no word about the circumstances of his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intarabus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Nobody mentions the main point: Luke is the last Jedi and the already deceased Yoda and Obiwan consider him as the only person who can beat Vader and the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts