what is the reasoning behind NOT prioritizing "Defensive Rating?"

[xioix]

Is it because lack of gear with +Defense rating? I thought dodging was more important since you get 0 damage whereas with absorption/shielding you still get damaged (although it is reduced).

 

Also, is the correct prioritization Shield Rating > Shield Absorption > Defensive Rating?

[Varicite]

What is the reasoning behind NOT reading the stickied guide to Powertech mechanics and pvp that is the very first thread in this forum, and has all the answers you are looking for?

 

/shrug

[xioix]

Which stickied post? One is about posting guidelines (doesn't answer my question) and the other one is about PvP which contains a link to his live stream PvP'ing (I don't PvP)? Edited February 8, 2012 by xioix

[LordExozone]

In a nutshell, most attacks from other players completely bypass your defenses, so for pvp there is little point to invest in +defense. I mean if you have the option of +100 defense rating which only works 20% of the time, and +100 power or crit which works 100% of the time, then going for the latter is not a hard choice, sad as it may be.

 

For PvE tanking you should prioritize defense rating, though according to Bioware tanks are ment to have a decent balance between shield, absorb and defense.

Edited February 8, 2012 by LordExozone

[The_Beastwood]

Defense rating is great agaisnt melee and ranged but isn't gonna help much agaisnt force or tech.

 

 

Tank stats in PVP are pretty lame, but the thing that does help is pure mitigation as this increases your survivability agaisnt everything.

[Varicite]

Which stickied post? One is about posting guidelines (doesn't answer my question) and the other one is about PvP which contains a link to his live stream PvP'ing (I don't PvP)?

 

The 2nd line in the post is a link to his guide, though.

 

It's PvP-focused, but item 7 is a pretty in-depth walkthrough of the defense mechanics in this game, and should tell you everything you need to know.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Which stickied post? One is about posting guidelines (doesn't answer my question) and the other one is about PvP which contains a link to his live stream PvP'ing (I don't PvP)?

 

My stickied Guide thread is entitled "Mechanics and PVP" not "PVP".

 

The Guide contains a ton of PVE content as-is, and as I'm now doing endgame tanking (HM Flashpoints and eventually Ops) it will include endgame tanking content as well.

 

Anyway, just tried reading the section on Defense Mechanics. I explain in great detail what the limitations are for Defense Rating and Shielding.

Edited February 8, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[iamnoobplzhelp]

1 reason you don't want to stack defense is there are some abilities that count on you getting hit to use (Flame Shield to lose CD on Flame Punch, Shield Vents to vent 8 heat, maybe some others). That's why you should stack shield/absorb, so you REDUCE the amount of damage you take. Plus, like the other people said many attacks don't even take defense into consideration

[Dralend]

Taugrim - I thought there used to be a paragraph in your writeup that basically said... Absorption > Shield > Defense... for those that don't care to be concerned with all the math.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's pretty much what the original poster wants to know.

 

-Zhom

[demoncrat]

 

The Guide contains a ton of PVE content as-is, and as I'm not beginning endgame tanking (HM Flashpoints and eventually Ops) it will include endgame tanking content as well.

 

 

You'll find for end-game content you can't really stack anything.

 

AFAIK defense has the highest diminishing returns so you'll just gimp yourself even if you manage in stacking it.

 

In 3/5 Rakata/Columi (including all earpieces and implants) I'm at:

 

16% Defense.

40% Shield Chance.

40% Shield Absorption.

50% Armor DMG reduction.

 

I've collected all my endurance datacrons along with the +10 stat one, except for one that's +4 endurance.

 

Self buffed with Rakata stim I'm at 2299 HP. I suspect I'll be closer to 24k once I have full Rakata.

 

Just FYI for people.

[Brakner]

I went Shield > Def > Absorb because you don’t have a choice with the current crafted gear. The top end crafted Aim-End ear, implants and shield are all Shield / Def. Basically they are all 47 shield - 60 def so I had to fork out the extra 50k per to get all 4 pieces with Augment slots for the 28 absorb augment.

 

Combine the Aug slots with 6 x 15 absorb enhancements from 2+ poisonous and the 19 absorb bracer and the best I could get was

 

375 shield

307 def

221 absorb

 

Edit:

 

Combine this with the reusable level 48 end/def stim and because of harsh diminishing returns this gives me;

 

50% resist

 

16% def - sad, that 350+ total def give you 16%

50% shield

47% absorb

Edited February 8, 2012 by Brakner

[demoncrat]

I went Shield > Def > Absorb because you don’t have a choice with the current crafted gear. The top end crafted Aim-End ear, implants and shield are all Shield / Def. Basically they are all 47 shield - 60 def so I had to fork out the extra 50k per to get all 4 pieces with Augment slots for the 28 absorb augment.

 

Combine the Aug slots with 6 x 15 absorb enhancements from 2+ poisonous and the 19 absorb bracer and the best I could get was

 

375 shield

307 def

221 absorb

 

You want Absorb and Shield chance to be roughly the same. It helps a lot that you take damage more steadly so the healer will find you more predictable.

 

Defense over 15% means you get hit 25% less (since even level mobs should be missing you 10% of the time anyway). This is all assuming there are no accuracy debuffs going around. In Raids, with Oilslick I am able to get enough debuffs on a boss, along with others, to rarely get hit for a short while. Very useful on bosses like Foreman Crusher and his frenzy phase.

[Brakner]

You want Absorb and Shield chance to be roughly the same. It helps a lot that you take damage more steadly so the healer will find you more predictable.

 

Defense over 15% means you get hit 25% less (since even level mobs should be missing you 10% of the time anyway). This is all assuming there are no accuracy debuffs going around. In Raids, with Oilslick I am able to get enough debuffs on a boss, along with others, to rarely get hit for a short while. Very useful on bosses like Foreman Crusher and his frenzy phase.

 

I will have to wait till I start getting more Rakata pieces to do this, because like I said with the current top end crafted items it is impossible, all you get ACC and Def on everything ( with the occasional shield thrown in). The only way to get absorb above 200 is augments.

[Umpire]

Even after I was given the math/looked at the spreadsheets I had trouble understanding WHY. Here's it:

 

When you get attacked, there are two separate "dice rolls":

 

First, the game asks if you were hit. This is defense chance. So if you have a 15% chance to dodge/etc, it rolls against that. This is either hit or miss.

 

If you "lose the roll", or get hit, only THEN that's when your shield chance is taken into account. In other words, if you dodge the attack all of your shield chance is wasted. And considering shield chance is baked into our class pretty hard core, we might as well boost it.

 

Further, since our shield rating is already pretty high due to talents & stance, absorbtion actually provides a bigger mitigation value overall right now, due to the fact that the higher your % based stats, the smaller the increase from individual points. (also part of the reason defense is a lackluster stat for us.)

Edited February 8, 2012 by Umpire

[Tenacity]

The amount of defense rating needed to reach 1% additional long-term damaeg mitigation is much greater than the amount of shield rating or absorption rating needed for the same effect. In terms of stat weighting, it just ends up being more efficient for us to focus heavily on shield rating and absorption rating - as they're a more reliable and easier to obtain form of damage prevention.

 

Beyond that, Shieldtechs have two talents which rely on shielding attacks in order to function (resetting the cooldown on rocket punch, and venting 8 heat, both of which are huge threat improvements for us).

 

In the end, 50% Shield rating + 50% absorption rating will equal out to 25% additional damage reduction. 25% defense rating will equal out to the same amount as well, but it ends up being less reliable, spikier, and much, much more difficult to obtain due to the amount of defense rating needed to reach that level.

[demoncrat]

Even after I was given the math/looked at the spreadsheets I had trouble understanding WHY. Here's it:

 

...

 

Don't take my response as hostile toward your theory crafting. Right now with end game gear you cannot stack defense. There's only one set of PvE end game gear for Powertechs. It starts at Tionese and ends at Rakata. It ultimately, along with any datacrons and relics you collect, gives you one set of stats.

 

Stacking anything does not work because the item budget isn't there. You would need to roll on loot for other classes, get their tokens, take mods/enhancements out, and slot them in your gear to see something that resembles stacking.

 

You're better off with this formula which seems to have an item budget:

 

Shield Chance/Absorption 1:1 or close to it. Defense about a quarter of your Shield Chance/Absorption. All the health you can reasonably get while keeping your mitigation stats. The most armor you can get (which is really just found on the end game PvE set).

 

I don't have any input on PvP as I don't engage in it.

[ZNICK]

What is the reasoning behind NOT reading the stickied guide to Powertech mechanics and pvp that is the very first thread in this forum, and has all the answers you are looking for?

 

/shrug

 

Same reasoning why "some people" on these forums are jerks... they don't have certain life skills.

 

Z

[Umpire]

 

Stacking anything does not work because the item budget isn't there. You would need to roll on loot for other classes, get their tokens, take mods/enhancements out, and slot them in your gear to see something that resembles stacking.

 

 

so? What's wrong with that? I would rather be min/maxed no matter what.

ps: you're agreeing with me. I said defense sucks

Edited February 9, 2012 by Umpire

[Vileeh]

What is the reasoning behind NOT reading the stickied guide to Powertech mechanics and pvp that is the very first thread in this forum, and has all the answers you are looking for?

 

/shrug

 

What is the reasoning behind using a different coloured font?

[Varicite]

What is the reasoning behind using a different coloured font?

 

White is boring.

 

Also, I've posted in this color for years; call it force of habit.

[xioix]

The amount of defense rating needed to reach 1% additional long-term damaeg mitigation is much greater than the amount of shield rating or absorption rating needed for the same effect. In terms of stat weighting, it just ends up being more efficient for us to focus heavily on shield rating and absorption rating - as they're a more reliable and easier to obtain form of damage prevention.

 

Beyond that, Shieldtechs have two talents which rely on shielding attacks in order to function (resetting the cooldown on rocket punch, and venting 8 heat, both of which are huge threat improvements for us).

 

In the end, 50% Shield rating + 50% absorption rating will equal out to 25% additional damage reduction. 25% defense rating will equal out to the same amount as well, but it ends up being less reliable, spikier, and much, much more difficult to obtain due to the amount of defense rating needed to reach that level.

 

Perfect, thanks!

[ericdjobs]

Don't take my response as hostile toward your theory crafting. Right now with end game gear you cannot stack defense. There's only one set of PvE end game gear for Powertechs. It starts at Tionese and ends at Rakata. It ultimately, along with any datacrons and relics you collect, gives you one set of stats.

 

Stacking anything does not work because the item budget isn't there. You would need to roll on loot for other classes, get their tokens, take mods/enhancements out, and slot them in your gear to see something that resembles stacking.

 

You're better off with this formula which seems to have an item budget:

 

Shield Chance/Absorption 1:1 or close to it. Defense about a quarter of your Shield Chance/Absorption. All the health you can reasonably get while keeping your mitigation stats. The most armor you can get (which is really just found on the end game PvE set).

 

I don't have any input on PvP as I don't engage in it.

 

This is exactly what you do as DPS, so if it was beneficial to stack any particular stat, I would wager tanks do it too.

 

Example; As a powertech DPS, my set is overloaded with accuracy, too much. The agent columi headpiece has one of the Best in Slot enhancements for Powertech Pyrotech DPS, Power/Surge (32 power/48 surge)

 

I ran Kaon under Seige (2 head slot tokens) many many times to get a nice supply of these 56 enhancements. They let me stack power/surge when my gear doesn't normally allow me to do so; thus I see crits that are much higher than a powertech wearing the default gear.

 

Kaon also drops weapons with R56 color crystals in them, which are better than what's included in the (empire's) columi weapons.. for some reason republic columi weapon crystals are already rank 56