The window is closing Bioware

[stuology]

There remains to be an abundance of you who claim to despise every aspect of the game, yet continue to play 5+ hours a day and spend ??? hours trolling the forums and saying how much you hate the game. You are either insane or have a massive gaming addiction that you need to deal with.

 

Or maybe they bought a 3 month sub - and why not - Bioware had a good reputation beforehand.....

 

(and some like me are here because his close circle of friends are all Star Wars fanatics and haven't gotten over that fact that they have glowsticks yet)

 

Either way - don't limit your judgement or assume that player numbers are any indication of player intent.

 

Your point though is still valid even if it is a bit rage ladden. It was obvious this game was going to fail in quality pvp before it was released. The simple fact was that they did not design the PvP as part of the game as a whole from the beginning, and if you don't lay down solid foundations, then you really have nothing to build on. Sure you can apply fixes all you like, but you still won't be able to change the fact your foundations are poor unless you rebuild.

 

As a community if you want a good game, a good PvP experience, then give your money to games and game developers that incorporate a good base from scratch, then even if the release is buggy, at least the fixes will build upon a sound base and become something better.

 

In a competitive enviroment, your power as a player is through your money - use that power with a little more wisdom.

[Chrishowee]

What an idiot, swtor is nothing like warhammer pvp wise, never post in this section again.....failure

[MorgonKara]

I think the endgame PvP stuff is far more interesting than the PvE stuff. The PvP is at least dynamic, the PVE Flashpoints are mostly gear-gated bosses with enrage timers. I wonder how many people PvP in SWTOR just to get tier 2 or 3 PvP gear in order to do the PvE endgame content? The PvP is good, I think they need to fix the PvE stuff personally; broken dailies, tank & spank PvE Bosses with 200% enrage damage timers and weak melee classes. It could be better. Edited February 7, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Tzerk]

While I agree that SWTOR is dropping the ball with no real signs of picking it up and doing anything with it....I do wonder what WAR you played. While there were some big CC maneuvers that had some amazing impact at times, being a melee, I wrecked people on a constant basis. The only really broken aspect of WAR was the Brightwizard AoE stun mixed with massive AoE damage mixed with the synergy of Iron Breakers and Warrior priests thta could basically keep them up and alive while they murdered players by the dozens.

 

All CC is frustrating when you are the target of it, but a majority of it, was more silly then anything (like Iron breakers punting you 1/2 way across the map). Lucky with knock backs and pulls, you could defeat it with smart placement, where as endless stuns/snares/roots that SWTOR has nothing to do with placement, it just happens.

 

Hmmm... every experience is different, but this:

 

The only really broken aspect of WAR was the Brightwizard AoE stun mixed with massive AoE damage mixed with the synergy of Iron Breakers and Warrior priests thta could basically keep them up and alive while they murdered players by the dozens.

 

All CC is frustrating when you are the target of it, but a majority of it, was more silly then anything (like Iron breakers punting you 1/2 way across the map). Lucky with knock backs and pulls, you could defeat it with smart placement, where as endless stuns/snares/roots that SWTOR has nothing to do with placement, it just happens

 

sounds like exactly what I remember and tried to convey in my post. Thank you for clarifying.

 

I agree CC here and in WH are not exactly the same, but being

punted half-way across the map

sounds a lot like huttball to me.

 

And, those pull skills that pulled players into those AoE stuns and massive damage sounds a lot like base camping on illum.

 

In any case, Warhammer is hardly classified as a successfull PvP MMO. They made serious mistakes and did not correct them in time.

 

There are parrallels between the 2 MMOs. Bioware has an opportunity to turn SWTOR PvP around.

 

That was my point.

[Opossumist]

Seems pretty spot on to me.

 

You're just a white-knight with blinders on...

 

Don't worry, defending these failures wont make you a mod and you will still have to show up to work tonight with your paper hat in hand to flip those burgers.

 

umm yeah

 

I played WAR from beta, pvp balance was no problem, a few issues here and there, nothing a patch won't cure. I was slaughtering the OP FOTM BWs with my WE out of hand and having a blast.

 

The real problem with WAR was the servers couldn't handle what mythic promised, the first of the epic large scale RvR, crashed the servers, so they started clipping, and eventually went to an instanced format, which ruined the play experience. SWTOR has no such problems, class balance issues are trivial, and will be solved with time.

 

The real issue with this thread is a whiney game hopper whos going to unsub and go to the next thing no matter what happens.

 

He gets pwned in the WZ once and cry cry cry.

 

This is an awesome game thus far, hopefully bioware won't listen to the forum qq.

[CaptainInsano]

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss....The PvP systems in this game are some of the worst in recent memory. It's a shame because the actual class balance and combat aren't horrible outside of a few headscratchers (mirror class discrepancies, difficult to click targeting, atrocious tab targeting-seriously how do you screw this one up?). But the random PvP gear bag system and Illum are such complete jokes that a 5th grader could tell you they wouldn't work out. Let's all be honest here, the Star Wars license is the ONLY thing holding this game up at the moment, but that affection will wear off soon enough. Let's hope BW can pull their heads out of their behinds before then. Edited February 8, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[babiegirlla]

this game is what you call, a game where you don`t play a melee class. unfortunately, for people like me whose playstyle is melee, you can kiss them all goodbye and watch your game slowly turn into "the team that has more sorcs wins".

[gtdead]

The problem is that cc is supposed to be exactly that, a way to prevent the player from doing something. This creates a dynamic of the player who uses the cc and the player who is cc'ed has to respond. The problem arises when cc is equal to instagib. You get pulled in the fire, you are instagibbed. Even if you survive, you will have blown all your defensive cooldowns, you will need to go out of combat (which takes FOREVER) to heal, and you will be useless till you regain your cooldowns.

 

So huttball isnt about making decisions, is about blindly charge and get pulled or knocked into the hazard (since even if you position yourself right, the game doesnt register), or just forget about it and farm your medals. There is absolutely no way you can keep track of positional changes in this game cause every class has one.

 

There are ways to change this. And to suggest some, make the fires instead of doing damage, to drop the armor and defenses or expertise. Make the acid to decrease healing received along with slow, so pulling the carrier with 5 healers on him in the acid will be a viable way to kill him. It doesnt have to be raw damage. Utility is good as well, and the pulling classes will still be useful, especially in a more competitive setting.

[hargrave]

I dont want this game to fail and i do like it but my main incentive which was open world pvp has been taken away from me...Ilum was supose to be 100vs100 it cant even handle 20vs20 and then on top of it its instanced to hell now. We got mass valor farming going on now and still huge imbalance and i see and hear very little. Yes its only been 1 month but the first month is the most critical month for any mmo. Its launched with no server forums and what happened at 1.1 i said in beta that would happen no one listened and sure enough the imps camped the rep base 24/7 that whole day. Lost a lot of people from that and that was thier fault for not listening in beta. Im grinding these alts out and giving it 6 months well see...

[Tzerk]

umm yeah

 

I played WAR from beta, pvp balance was no problem, a few issues here and there, nothing a patch won't cure. I was slaughtering the OP FOTM BWs with my WE out of hand and having a blast.

 

The real problem with WAR was the servers couldn't handle what mythic promised, the first of the epic large scale RvR, crashed the servers, so they started clipping, and eventually went to an instanced format, which ruined the play experience. SWTOR has no such problems, class balance issues are trivial, and will be solved with time.

 

The real issue with this thread is a whiney game hopper whos going to unsub and go to the next thing no matter what happens.

 

He gets pwned in the WZ once and cry cry cry.

 

This is an awesome game thus far, hopefully bioware won't listen to the forum qq.

 

Actually, I want this game to succeed, and I want to PvP here. This is my first post in this forum,, and there wasnt a tear in it.

 

I play WZs, because I have no choice, but I could care less if I get killed in them. If you knew me, you would know I care less about death in PvP, as long as my group benefits.

 

I, and most of my guild-mates, are looking for large-scale open PvP. This game promised that. This game has failed at that so far.

 

What corrections Bioware has made so far to PvP have been largely failures, with a few good exceptions.

 

I hope they improve both the game and their track record.

 

My original post was an atempt to point out that repeating mistakes made by others in the past is not going to solve the problem.

 

That is all. I dont hate. I am not crying, and I am not threatening to rage quit.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Tzerk

[DigitalPrime]

There remains to be an abundance of you who claim to despise every aspect of the game, yet continue to play 5+ hours a day and spend ??? hours trolling the forums and saying how much you hate the game. You are either insane or have a massive gaming addiction that you need to deal with.

 

What’s the worst part of this game for me? What makes me lose patience? The *********** community.

 

Don't talk about canceling, don't talk about unsubbing. Go to your account page and unsub now. Go to your bookmarks and remove the SWTOR forums. Go do something constructive for a change. Hell, go make your own video game, because obviously the game you want and claim that everyone demands doesn't exist right now.

 

If you think for a second that I'm going to be regretting a lack of a playerbase 6 months from now, you are delusional. This is the best MMO experience on the market. Period. If you don't like it, quit the temper-tantrums and put your money where your mouth is. Come back next year maybe when it is clear that SWTOR has carved out its share of the market successfully.

 

I came into this game expecting KOTOR 3, an MMO version of the single player games I loved, and that’s exactly what BW has given me. If you come into this game expecting a WoW, DoAC, or CoH clone…expect to be disappointed, and don’t expect the rest of us to care.

 

Errrm, I think we just expected a great PVP experience as BW promised, Yet we dont have that. So it doesnt matter how far you can get your tounge up a developers ****. It doesnt change the fact that the PVP is completely broken.

 

 

By the way OP, Great post, I agree 100% - 5* to you sir

[PulseXXX]

Errrm, I think we just expected a great PVP experience as BW promised, Yet we dont have that. So it doesnt matter how far you can get your tounge up a developers ****. It doesnt change the fact that the PVP is completely broken.

 

SWTOR PvP is fun, not broken. "PvP is completely broken" is nothing but a dog whistle.

 

I was there for WAR launch. They failed because the pure PvP playerbase is not as large as you might think, and catering to them right from the start turned a lot of people off. They failed because the best PvE in the game was happening in the first 10 levels. WAR failed because they made PvP their #1 above all concern, and the mass of players did not like it.

[ARMofGod]

I love PvP in this game but some people don't have a grasp on the big picture. Why do some(not all) pvper's still believe they represent the majority population when the truth is they don't.

 

The game is far from dead sorry to disappoint. Im only level 39 (level 35 valor) many of the people I play with haven't dinged 50. I do pve and pvp. Eventually it will be fixed in the mean time I'll just do something else or WZ and not participate in open world. Majority of standard servers were heavy on friday and saturday and light pops where standard and 4 servers had a 15 min que.

 

I agree with points of the OP but reality is that pvp is not the majority crowd it really isn't. While it might be dead to you its not to the mass or not to were the majority pop is running away from the game because of 1.1.2.

 

I like most of the game and some parts are frustrating yes but saying its DEAD is far from the truth.

 

Oh really? Mr.Big shot level 39 PvE'r is telling me whats what? Guess what kid, your ignorance is blinding you. The difference between you and me is that (aside from me just being generally superior to you in every way) I can plainly see that PVE content will never be entertaining for a lasting period of time. Guess why? Because AI doesnt exist. My brain can out smart any mob in any game and that isn't going to change anytime soon. Until it does the only way to have a lasting challenge is to fight other human brains. That is why we play games online, PVP.

 

And as for the game not being dead, well you are just plain stupid. The writing is on the wall, the roof is on fire, Hannibal is at the gate. You are just too ignorant to see it yet.

[Choppaman]

Bioware,

 

I come from a background of many MMOs - and spent most of my time in them in PvP. I am part of a medium-sized guild that has PvPed in several MMOs, and we are now here trying to make the best of SWTOR PvP.

 

Many of those MMOs started with bugs and problems, some improved, others didnt. But one lesson that should be obvious to anyone who follows MMOs, is that the PvP player base will only pay for buggy and poorly designed PvP for a limited time.

 

I'm going to step on some toes now Bioware, but I mean this as contructive criticism.

 

I was in Warhammer online from the release. It was wildly popular at launch with long login ques for the first few weeks. The PvE game was fun. All that crowd control that most classes had was delightfull against npcs...because the players werent being subjected to it... at first.

 

Then everyone started into the instanced PvP matches. I can remember that there was one that was just taylor-made to make it easier for the classes with the big push and pull CC skills to shine. Those classes would only que for that match and they quickly outpaced every other class in pvp progression. The other classes were forcrd to que for that type match to get any pvp at all.

 

Does this sound familiar?

 

 

Then the players began reaching endgame and looking forward to open-world pvp. This was what we had all been working toward.

 

End game PvP turned out to be two camps of ranged nukers crowd controlling and detroying any melee class who tried to touch them. Those rediculous push and pull skills were used to make sure the ranged nuker camps were seperated just out of CC range from each other.

 

The game had poorly balanced classes and way too much crowd control. Players pointed out the flaws over and over on the forums, but it fell on deaf ears.

 

Players left in droves. In just a few months, what had started as a hugely successful release with long login wait times turned into merged servers and a rapidly dwindling player base... not in a year or two, but in a few months.

 

The window of opportunity closed.

 

Bioware, please learn from this.

 

I use Warhammer as an example because if you took away the lightsabers, SWTOR PvP is almost a direct copy of Warhammer PvP. Warhammer failed once, dont repeat history.

 

I never stuck around past the first month in warhammer. I had lots of fun at first playing a healer shaman, but after awhile the bugs and ability delay in that game really got to me and caused me to leave.

 

I see the same issues with this game, and also, as you have mentioned, there is WAY too much CC in this game.

 

I play a healer and it is just pathetic how I get chained by uncoordinated pug DPSers because of just how many CCs are available in this game. In WZs, I probably am CCd roughly 40-70% of the time depending on the coordination of the enemy team.

 

Just bad game design.

[Nero]

OP makes a good point.

 

Endgame PvP is a failure.

 

GOD! Even Open World PvP was non-existant. I really want to ask who had a REAL challange against an enemy player while leveling.

 

PvP flag is a joke. They made a walled garden with minigames like Huttball and a bigger walled garden called Ilum. And guess what? It gets boring real fast if you don't count it is broken.

 

PvE was good, and that's it. And let's face it. It is more a singleplayer game most of the quests. So MMORPG isn't a real MMO. More like KOTOR3 with a chat window.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Nero

[Winteria]

OP makes a good point.

 

Endgame PvP is a failure.

 

GOD! Even Open World PvP was non-existant. I really want to ask who had a REAL challange against an enemy player while leveling.

 

PvP flag is a joke. They made a walled garden with minigames like Huttball and a bigger walled garden called Ilum. And guess what? It gets boring real fast if you don't count it is broken.

 

PvE was good, and that's it. And let's face it. It is more a singleplayer game most of the quests. So MMORPG isn't a real MMO. More like KOTOR3 with a chat window.

 

Yep !

 

thank you Biofail...

[Hawaiianlion]

I really enjoy the skirmish type pvp of 2v3 and 4v4 type battles, but the WZs have turned into a mess, its rare i get an actual decent game now. If it isnt 6v12 and ends in 2 mins you have a speed hacker capping balls in seconds, people capping doors from the other side with no way to stop them, 3 people sitting in acid pits healing themselves all game to get a huge amount of healing (and half the people vote them as mvps?). Still havent tried illum yet but why would I since all i hear are bad things. The good games are a gem and i really enjoy them but they are so few and far between now.

 

This games needs rateds or arena QUICK.

[Palazious]

In 3-6 months, this game will be amazing. Hopefully most of the people who quit between now and then come back for it.

 

 

I know I'll be back but I'm not going to keep paying for what Bioware "says" they're going to do.

 

The way they are going, in 3-6 months even their microwave in the breakroom won't work anymore.

[Evuke]

In 3-6 months, this game will be amazing. Hopefully most of the people who quit between now and then come back for it.

 

 

I know I'll be back but I'm not going to keep paying for what Bioware "says" they're going to do.

 

in 3-6 months gw2 will be out and once people have played gw2 returning to swtor would be like moving from the Hollywood Hills to Detroit's projects.

 

people will not be coming back

Edited February 8, 2012 by Evuke

[bamsmacked]

I never played WH but I can agree where you're coming from.

 

But take into consideration that the game was rushed ahead of schedule and is barely over a month old.

 

It's going to take time for things to finally start to balance -- if you blew your load rushed to 50 and are complaining about things to do and how bad the PvP is then roll an alt in the mean time or take a break.

 

The PvP is a downer but give Bioware some time to sort it out.

[Ashanor]

Just waiting on GW2 here.

 

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/guild-wars-2-mass-info-t25557.html

 

Message me if you want to see some nice PvP videos. That thread I linked has a ton of info.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ashanor

[DarthAladar]

Very well put. For me, I am giving it more of a chance than most. I bought a 1 month subscription in addition to my free month, because you can not expect them to fix everything immediately, but I do expect them to fix something within 2 months. So far it's just become more and more diappointed, because this game had so much potential. I as well am waiting on GW2, and I so so so want to get into beta for it.

[Rasheth]

Whats the bigger picture? 3 crappy warzones and a open field zone that took a day to design? The pvp in this game is terrible at 50, its only a side thing for when u get awefully bored with pve. Bioware keeps trying to sell PVP as a BIG thing. But im sure pvp is a blast leveling up with premades.

 

 

The bigger picture is that PvP is not the majority of the population. Especially hardcore PvPers. They will get to you eventually and have been making changes for that portion of the population. Honestly you are the small piece of the pie.

 

In no way shape or form are the PvP forums even remotely close to the a representation of the majority of people that play SWTOR.

 

If Swtor = 1.7mil active subs

 

PvP Forums = 1% of population = 17,000 posters on the forums saying the game is dead cause I didnt get what I want. (highly doubt 17,000 people even post in pvp forums)

 

1.7 million>17,000

 

Cater to the Mass

Acknowledge the hardcore

Prioritize

 

its a business simple,

 

TL;DR get over yourselves and have perspective, either play or don't in the end your opinion matters but doesnt hold more weight than anyone elses.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Rasheth

[Zynellan]

Waiting on GW2.

 

I had high hopes for this game, but it's just getting stale. Customer service is terrible, and very little communication is given about huge game issues. (patch 1.1 for example)

[Lividcalm]

Bioware,

 

I come from a background of many MMOs - and spent most of my time in them in PvP.

 

So you admit you're in the minority.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Lividcalm