A change in the right direction. But not enough to make me resubscribe. They still need to make a working Open PvP enviroment. First order is to fix their engine lag when we have so many people closer. And I won't miss Ilum... good riddance! May the Deathstar put an end to its misery.

You know when you are wasting money when you check forums for any update of an MMO and it has nothing, and because of that you don't log in to play what you had paid. So I'm just using my remaining subscription days to talk with you all in forums and also tell that I agree with everyone about the engame PvP. I really saw some horrible half-baked korean MMOs from small game houses around and I have to say SWTOR engame PvP isn't that far from those half-baked free-to-play korean MMOs. So many years of development wasted in cinematics... If they really wanted to make KOTOR3 then it would be a kick-*** single player game and would be more cheap to make. Greed killed SWTOR, and I hope the shareholders of EA demand an explanation after next quarterly reports. From this report they can't hide any numbers. They thought they could get away by converting a single-player game into a half-baked MMO to keep the cash going for a while. And i feel cheated.

How about: Make it cheap to get and focus on real issues like nuke Ilum for good and bring a real arena to have some fun? This is just going to make Warzone quitters to continue quitting and the grindfest in Ilum also continue.

So they are facing the PvP grinding problem/lack of content with... MORE grinding! They are probably thinking: "Hey, we already lost the subscribers who have all gears, lets just hope this stall players that are about to reach level 50" Can't stop thinking how stupid this is.

I don't want grinding Gear PvP. Who said I wanted? I think the PvP today fills the need of the players who wish that kind of game today. No need to change anything. I want to play on a full warzone with people playing for the game. And not raging quit or having unbalanced warzones 8x2, or people grinding just to have it's daily and forget about the game. My fun is to play the warzone for the challange to win the warzone. But if the rules set by Bioware made most of the remaining population of PvP going nuts and getting into WZ just for the gear, then I can't have MY FUN as so many of us who are still having a subscription active and are still complaining here trying to see a light at the end of the tunnel. So that's why I'm asking you again. How are you having fun with all these problems that is not under OUR control in Warzones? As you can see, I can't "go for it" because it is out of my control having this experience.

You didn't reach endgame and that's why you are still enjoying warzones and didn't take a look at Ilum. You are having the same feeling anybody here had under the awesome cinematic bubble. Too bad Class quests has an ending, and soon you are going to see Ilum. The engame of TOR changes a lot.

Your reasons to play isn't what I asked. So let me get a bit more complete question. You are in a PvP board and into a PvP thread and said Warzones are just fine today. So please tell us how are you having fun with it and help us get a little bit of fun too! How do you play warzones at level 50 today for fun? If you aren't playing warzones at level 50. So your strategy is to play low-level warzones? Your insight will help other players who are desperate wanting to find something fun to do! I said PvP is about Valor and Grind at level 50. You said it isn't. So please tell us what I could do to get out of this Valor/Grind fest and have a good play experience here. Please remember this is a PvP thread and PvP-related. Asked us to go to PvE isn't the answer anybody that is complaning here wants. That's not the final solution we want. If it is Bioware solution then it isn't the game we should be playing. And that's it.

Non-sequitur! I thought the PvP today is all about Valor and gear grind. You already said this isn't a PvP game and yet said you have fun in Warzones. I really want to know how do you play a complete game without anyone rage quiting or facing a 8x2 warzone match nowadays.

You nailed it. It was so fun on Alderaan. I was playing solo and faced a mob down the road. I had a hard time running away and later I called my guild to help and we started a little battle. Another day I was on a PvP 1x1 near the Datacron at the river. It was the first time I saw Open PvP on a PvP server and that made me think that Ilum was going to be awesome. What a fool I was...

Some of them may complain for the wrong reasons as you said like "I don't have anymore to grind", but some of them does have a point to complain. Does Ilum has a perfect "state-of-the-art" PvP? Well, first thing we need to ask ourselves... Is that a PvP arena really? Hardly an Imps x Reps stucked near the exit of Rep Base is a PvP arena. And what about the lag after we get a 30x30 people? A MMO engine needs to hold that amount quite well or it isn't prepared to be MMO. Does Warzones are working as it should be with 2x8 games? And what about the hacks going on? No reason to complain? Really? Open PvP is nonexistent. In fact, there is little replayability of most worlds right now. I have no reason to get back to some Planets after I ding 50. People could wait more if there wasn't so many problems in Ilum and Warzones. But the devs are too slow to act and that's making things even worse. People start thinking if they should continue trying that if they can't see fixes delivered fast. Complains of Lack of content just got a bit more loud because basic mechanics failed to keep people entertained for a while due the reasons I told at the begining of my post. New warzone in 1.2 isn't going to change these problems. Few warzones isn't the reason people are quitting. At least for me. They failed with me because of basic problems that is getting too long to fix and I'm paying my subscription to wait! Just my 2 cents.

I resub 3 months in January. PvE really sucked me in but I didn't make into 50 before that. I have to say I played for some weeks Ilum and It is really boring and laggy. If they fix lag it would be half-way to go and then they could focus on a real PvP arena with Faction vs Faction PvP bigger than a quick 15 min Warzone. I saw the sieges of GW2 and I think it would be great for SWTOR to have it, but I just can't see they making any changes in PvP in near future. As many of my guild did, I won't resub until I see improvements. On a unrelated PvP note: I also think PvE flashpoints at the Fleet hurts Planet population big time. We have no reason to come back to most planets after we ding 50. Flashpoints should be in Planets. Who the hell made that design?

EA exec, shareholders and George Lucas has too much to lose if this MMO fail. They may not hear us, but I can be damn sure they are under pressure from top to fix the situation or they will have a hard time finding another job in a AAA game.

On a second thought... nevermind. After looking at your thread it is better we stay without any communication.

I think they have no clue what to do. That's why there is no update anymore.

Wow, I just joined to check the forums again how this was going and saw your post. Hello. Cinematic is very resource hungry but in another way. If you remove that and put a popup textbox it is the same quest with a lot less money spent on it. Anyway, if you are right about PvP, then Bioware has no excuse to make what it did with Ilum. It is also double guilty when announce it wasn't just a KOTOR3 with chat but a full world to do other things like.... PVP! Guess what? It IS KOTOR3 with a chat! The engine isn't prepared to handle so many people in your screen and you start playing at 1fps in Ilum. This was clearly not tested. Crap even PvE raids with 16 people isn't smooth. About PvP rentention. I played for 3 years UO and I think it is a very good retention time for any MMO. This was the first time I get sucked in with PvE cinematic and after you reach lvl 50 and are prepared to go into Ilum you have a sensantion like "meh, that's it?". I also don't think how long PvE player retention is going to be here but making Flashpoints concentrated in a single point at the Fleet was a dumb decision. People are just going to make dailies and then later will start to have the same feeling as PvP players are having now. Killing the same thing over and over and not even having the trouble to cross an entire planet full of enemies to get into the Flashpoint. I can see my guild shrink every single day, mixed with PvE and PvP players, they are all feeling "Well, cinematic is over, what now? Not much to do.". This game was designed with a single player enviroment in mind, and at the ending of class quests the game is over. Anyway... I don't tink this is going to change anytime soon. So my decision was to unsub and look for other things to do. It isn't with my money that they are going to deliver what they should had already done.

I don't think we are the minority. You can consider FPS games out there to be PvP enviroment and a potential MMO Player with PvP content desire. UO was one of the first MMORPG and it had a heavy PvP open world. The problem is that make PvE content is way more easy to do than PvP. You make the objectives, put some monsters into the pathway and you are done. The rest is most cinematic. PvP breeding is hard to do and it is time consuming. Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies were the ones I played and enjoyed PvP. But if the developers doesn't think the classes/skills/rewards careful, later it will bring problems and create a snowball effect. Instead of trying to fix pontual PvP design errors the rule today is "forget about PvP, we can't make these subscribers happy".

Don't think PvP is going to be fixed in a near future in SWTOR. It is clearly a design decision they made to focus on PvE content. Creating a real Open World PvP takes time and I doubt they will going to deliver in March. Probably just one new Warzone and that's it. If you are die hard fan of PvP, this is not the game for you and I'm sorry to say that. The problem is that you figure that out only reaching lvl 50 and getting out of the beautiful cinematic bubble they made with PvE.

Territory control only works if: 1- There are enough people to play 2- The engine can hold several people in your screen without lagging (this is a major problem today, just look at Ilum lagfest) 3- There are good rewards for faction controlled territory. When I mean reward I mean fun factor rewards like the feeling of capturing/control a building is giving an advantage in PvP zone. If it works like Ilum it will be a failure in a wider scale because the objectives has no real reason to exist other than change the valor gain per kill.

I feel the same as you. There is no reason to continue paying until you see what they made to address the situation because PvP "as it is" isn't what I'm looking for. If there are people happy with Ilum PvP and Warzones as it is, then I feel happy for them and I have to figure out another game for me. Mass Effect 3 is coming out and it will give me some weeks of fun. After that I will see what I will do.

Already unsub. The idiot here payed 3 months to get a discount. This is a KOTOR 3 with internet chat. Let's face it. PvE guys will love the game until they reach 50 as I did. When you try to look for other things to do like PvP you see how poor designed this game was. You can always create an alt, but you will start to thinking yourself what the hell are you doing here killing the same things over and over. Only class quests change, the rest of the content is shared. PvP would save SWTOR from the lack of what to do when reach endgame. But they didn't care.

Ilum is the best example of "Defective by Design". The map design is wrong, how the rewards are giving is wrong... I don't think they did anything correct in Ilum. It is just... wrong. I think the devs expect Ilum to act like a Team Fortress 2 without a clear objective like TF2. We just end our daily/week and get out as fast as we can. It will bore the hell out of anyone and soon a lot of people will start unsub due to lack of what to do. There is already a discussion about it and the solution some players are doing is to start an alt char. Not a REAL solution because you are giving up doing any real PvP to rolling into a PvE content.

What he fail to understand is that Ilum and Warzones exploit are REAL issues, and it isn't broken for just a few hours. We are waiting a patch to fix basic problems for weeks now. And it seems he also fail to understand that we are getting angry due to lack of quality control of their own code! - Their engine can't hold more than 20 people without lagging. So it is not made for MMO enviroment. - Their code commit doesn't have proper testing before applying to servers - They don't seems to have any clue of the issues. If they played their own game they should know what to do.

OP makes a good point. Endgame PvP is a failure. GOD! Even Open World PvP was non-existant. I really want to ask who had a REAL challange against an enemy player while leveling. PvP flag is a joke. They made a walled garden with minigames like Huttball and a bigger walled garden called Ilum. And guess what? It gets boring real fast if you don't count it is broken. PvE was good, and that's it. And let's face it. It is more a singleplayer game most of the quests. So MMORPG isn't a real MMO. More like KOTOR3 with a chat window.

Well, I just cancelled my subscription until I see some real progress. Endgame is broken. Let's face. We can't do much doing "minigames" like Huttball every single time. No real open World PvP. Didn't even have a problem leveling. Why someone should care to even fight other worlds? The PvP flag is a joke. And Ilum is broken in a way that only a real redesign will change it. The map is too big for just 60 people and no real objectives. It doesn't work as a real battlefront as I think it should be.

For the love of God Bioware/EA! You can milk your cash cow as long as your customer are happy. Slaughter your cow and the milk will stop. At the moment it looks like your cow is going to be a dead meat very soon. Level 50 PvP is getting more broken at every patch! As about suggestions, I think people already gave it a lot. Let me give you some of mine. Ilum warzone area is way too big to have any meaningful PvP with just 60 people. So people will just concentrate in some area to fight. Objectives are meaningless to make any real advance/retreat of areas. It's like there is no clear battlefront due to it's wide area and nothing of real value to hold. Maybe you should give objectives that does have value to hold. Example: If you hold Ilum area for x mins you gain Y valor, if you lose the area you lose the valor of that area. Since you gain about 1000 valor per 15 mins of Huttball I think it is pretty much good enough to give a max 2~2.5x more valor of a Huttball if you have total control of Ilum to a min of 1x~1.5x of a Hutball match. Give valor to those in Ilum if they are in warzone area *AND* having kills/captures or people will just start AFK to get some valor and do no real help. Give a bonus for those who capture. FORBID People capturing areas that is not nearby of a captured base! Make a linear advance like a real Battlefront between two countries in a War and don't allow "Ninja" captures at Rep/Imp base or something behind! That way, all that area in Ilum starts to have some REAL action and not just some rep-imp party in rep base or some valorfarm going. ------------ Another solution. Just nuke from orbit and give up. Ilum warzone map design is a major problem. Suggestions welcome but I know I should not hold my breath while waiting for updates. Regards.