Tzerk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Bioware, I come from a background of many MMOs - and spent most of my time in them in PvP. I am part of a medium-sized guild that has PvPed in several MMOs, and we are now here trying to make the best of SWTOR PvP. Many of those MMOs started with bugs and problems, some improved, others didnt. But one lesson that should be obvious to anyone who follows MMOs, is that the PvP player base will only pay for buggy and poorly designed PvP for a limited time. I'm going to step on some toes now Bioware, but I mean this as contructive criticism. I was in Warhammer online from the release. It was wildly popular at launch with long login ques for the first few weeks. The PvE game was fun. All that crowd control that most classes had was delightfull against npcs...because the players werent being subjected to it... at first. Then everyone started into the instanced PvP matches. I can remember that there was one that was just taylor-made to make it easier for the classes with the big push and pull CC skills to shine. Those classes would only que for that match and they quickly outpaced every other class in pvp progression. The other classes were forcrd to que for that type match to get any pvp at all. Does this sound familiar? Then the players began reaching endgame and looking forward to open-world pvp. This was what we had all been working toward. End game PvP turned out to be two camps of ranged nukers crowd controlling and detroying any melee class who tried to touch them. Those rediculous push and pull skills were used to make sure the ranged nuker camps were seperated just out of CC range from each other. The game had poorly balanced classes and way too much crowd control. Players pointed out the flaws over and over on the forums, but it fell on deaf ears. Players left in droves. In just a few months, what had started as a hugely successful release with long login wait times turned into merged servers and a rapidly dwindling player base... not in a year or two, but in a few months. The window of opportunity closed. Bioware, please learn from this. I use Warhammer as an example because if you took away the lightsabers, SWTOR PvP is almost a direct copy of Warhammer PvP. Warhammer failed once, dont repeat history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otega Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ya man, agreed with above. Window has closed. They lost the respect of the playerbase almost immediately. Unbelievable that these people have jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I hate to say it but I agree. They launched way too soon and their time to fix stuff wasn't enough or they didn't try enough. I'm just banking/waiting on 1.2 and hoping that it brings some fun back into PvP with ranked WZs. The way it looks is that it's going to take a while for 1.2 to come out and that it wasn't even a 100% promise from the devs that ranked WZs would be in 1.2. I can't even bring myself to level an alt in the waiting time because I'm not sure how well Bioware will be doing with the future patches. I'm contemplating going back to WoW, actually not even going back because the highest I ever got was level 62. But at least there I know what it doesn't/does have. Edited February 7, 2012 by AMKSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree, BW should be tunneling resources into pvp because that is the majority of the endgame content at this point in time and it is badly broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 queue tailor-made ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous. the root word is RIDICULE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Great post, OP. For me, the window closed a long time ago. I almost can't stand the people that makes threads whining and asking Bioware to change stuff, when at the end of the day, they'll never quit. It's completely stupid. It's like, if you don't like the game, STOP PLAYING IT. Any other decision you make, they're still getting payed no matter HOW much you bit**, so there really is only one choice. Be a pointless full, or enjoy another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzerk Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thank you for the spelling corrections. I never spell check my forum posts. I think there should be a place in the world for people who memorize dictionaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooslick Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree. Plenty of us in beta gave loads of input on how to best deal with these issues way back when, and very few, if any, were addressed. I don't know why BW even had a beta, as a tester I obviously had zero influence in the final product. I'm absolutely dumb-founded how a game of this calibur can be released in it's current form given the past failures over the last few years. Games so full of promise (like Warhammer Online) yet fail so hard because devs either refuse to address important issues (hacking, ranged class balancing), address the issues and fail (Ilum, lag), or show us their complete lack of prioritization (Assassin hybrid nerf....really?) Not going to subscribe any further and it doesn't really matter if they fix things later on down the road. There really is a small window of opportunity to work with, because once a game loses it's momentum, bye bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I agree, BW should be tunneling resources into pvp because that is the majority of the endgame content at this point in time and it is badly broken. Exactly. The people who play PvE and are interested in the story as their main focus have this game made. But the PvPers who actually want something to show for PvPing (ranks) don't have that. I can keep playing and hope that 1.2 will introduce that (even though BW hasn't promised anything) and who knows when 1.2 is actually going to come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzerk Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Great post, OP. For me, the window closed a long time ago. I almost can't stand the people that makes threads whining and asking Bioware to change stuff, when at the end of the day, they'll never quit. It's completely stupid. It's like, if you don't like the game, STOP PLAYING IT. Any other decision you make, they're still getting payed no matter HOW much you bit**, so there really is only one choice. Be a pointless full, or enjoy another game. I havent given up. I think Bioware can pull this out of the fire, but they will have to make some big changes...fast. A really good start would be to tell us exactly where they are going with PvP.... what they are trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I havent given up. I think Bioware can pull this out of the fire, but they will have to make some big changes...fast. A really good start would be to tell us exactly where they are going with PvP.... what they are trying to accomplish. That's my biggest problem is that they don't even communicate. Most of the stuff that they talk about or say is just : "We're working on this, it might be in at 1.2, we don't know for sure though. Thanks!" I'll be back in a couple months and still follow the game but I already unsubbed today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzerk Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Exactly. The people who play PvE and are interested in the story as their main focus have this game made. But the PvPers who actually want something to show for PvPing (ranks) don't have that. I can keep playing and hope that 1.2 will introduce that (even though BW hasn't promised anything) and who knows when 1.2 is actually going to come around. It is a great PvE game. The voice acted story is fantastic..... once, maybe twice. How many of us are leveling alts now and space-bar through all that dialog? At that point, its just another MMO. There has to be more to this game... especially end-game, than voice acted leveling quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilecorb Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Their doing a Sterling job of upsetting their customers for sure. I set March as my sub date to give them a chance but many won't be as forgiving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMofGod Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is all true, except the window is already closed. Everyone has reached 50 and sees there is zero PVP content for them. The game is dead. FU EA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iriquois Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm a huge fanboi..I have been waiting for over 6 years for this game. And will not easily admit that all that waiting was for nothing. I usually look the other way at BW hate threads, but I must say, the comparison that you have drawn here between the two games is chilling. Good job OP, I hope they listen closely here. That said, BW has accomplished something huge with the pve game, i cant let that work/accomplishment go unacknowledged, thats where the competitive advantage for this game resides unfortunately. But yes, PvP end game will eventually determine ultra wild success, or just a Ho hum success. Edited February 7, 2012 by Iriquois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzerk Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm a huge fanboi..I have been waiting for over 6 years for this game. And will not easily admit that all that waiting was for nothing. I usually look the other way at BW hate threads, but I must say, the comparison that you have drawn here between the two games is chilling. Good job OP, I hope they listen closely here. I really didnt write this as a BW hate thread, as I said, I meant it to be contructive criticism. I like parts of this game. I think Bioware can greatly improve the parts I dont like. I just dont think they have years to do it. I am certain they dont have years to improve it where I am concerned. Edited February 7, 2012 by Tzerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iriquois Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I really didnt write this as a BW hate thread, as I said, I meant it to be contructive criticism. I like parts of this game. I think Bioware can greatly improve the parts I dont like. I just dont think they have years to do it. I am certain they dont have years to improve it where I am concerned. I agree, you didn't write this as one.....but most others are, so I was talking about those others really. I shouldnt have generalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasheth Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 This is all true, except the window is already closed. Everyone has reached 50 and sees there is zero PVP content for them. The game is dead. FU EA I love PvP in this game but some people don't have a grasp on the big picture. Why do some(not all) pvper's still believe they represent the majority population when the truth is they don't. The game is far from dead sorry to disappoint. Im only level 39 (level 35 valor) many of the people I play with haven't dinged 50. I do pve and pvp. Eventually it will be fixed in the mean time I'll just do something else or WZ and not participate in open world. Majority of standard servers were heavy on friday and saturday and light pops where standard and 4 servers had a 15 min que. I agree with points of the OP but reality is that pvp is not the majority crowd it really isn't. While it might be dead to you its not to the mass or not to were the majority pop is running away from the game because of 1.1.2. I like most of the game and some parts are frustrating yes but saying its DEAD is far from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was playing this game to fill in some time before D3 and GW2 come out, and guess what ? its a total joke ! I feel like playing a single player RPG with a chat window. As I already said, good job Biofail for hidding behing a name like Star War cause you guys knew that such a buggy, unfinished no end-game crappy pvp game would sell ANYWAY... were in 2012, ppl expect alot more from games today, been in development for 5 years ? storyline and voice acting thats all.. nice try Biofail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtdead Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Tor Anroc is a milestone in the long list of pvp disasters. And then there is huttball ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdadi Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Totally agree with the author. PVP design will ruin/has ruined this game and now there is no time to fix it. Unfortunately other games will replace this one in a very near future... Hope you BioWare learn from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trushott Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erseneos Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I love PvP in this game but some people don't have a grasp on the big picture. Why do some(not all) pvper's still believe they represent the majority population when the truth is they don't. The game is far from dead sorry to disappoint. Im only level 39 (level 35 valor) many of the people I play with haven't dinged 50. I do pve and pvp. Eventually it will be fixed in the mean time I'll just do something else or WZ and not participate in open world. Majority of standard servers were heavy on friday and saturday and light pops where standard and 4 servers had a 15 min que. I agree with points of the OP but reality is that pvp is not the majority crowd it really isn't. While it might be dead to you its not to the mass or not to were the majority pop is running away from the game because of 1.1.2. I like most of the game and some parts are frustrating yes but saying its DEAD is far from the truth. Whats the bigger picture? 3 crappy warzones and a open field zone that took a day to design? The pvp in this game is terrible at 50, its only a side thing for when u get awefully bored with pve. Bioware keeps trying to sell PVP as a BIG thing. But im sure pvp is a blast leveling up with premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 In 3-6 months, this game will be amazing. Hopefully most of the people who quit between now and then come back for it. I know I'll be back but I'm not going to keep paying for what Bioware "says" they're going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 In 3-6 months, this game will be amazing. Hopefully most of the people who quit between now and then come back for it. I know I'll be back but I'm not going to keep paying for what Bioware "says" they're going to do. Well, I am not as optimistic as you. I think the game will blow then as well. Reason: Warhammer (I learn from my mistakes). Besides, in 3-6 months we might have GW2 or PS2 (or at least they will be close!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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