Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Gavin_Darkl]

It's going to be funny when they launch it as single server, and it solves very few problems. I'm on a pretty populated server so I may not have many issues but I've played on smaller servers, and it's going to solve nothing there. The player base seems spread thing with so many servers, it's a complete mess.

 

There is nothing stopping a person sitting on a low population server to move to a higher population server. These people need to stop crying it takes what 80 to 100 hours to level? Play 4 hours a day for 25 days, now you are level 50. They even are planing to make leveling easier with the legacy system. People need to stop using personal choice as a crutch for why they need somebody else to take the responsibility for it.

[BlueSkittles]

There is nothing stopping a person sitting on a low population server to move to a higher population server. These people need to stop crying it takes what 80 to 100 hours to level? Play 4 hours a day for 25 days, now you are level 50. They even are planing to make leveling easier with the legacy system. People need to stop using personal choice as a crutch for why they need somebody else to take the responsibility for it.

 

Good to see you are humble in victory. And as so many have said, how the **** was it my "choice"/mistake going to a low pop server? Why the **** would I start a new toon on a new server and lose all of my legacy? Now if they merge servers....lolololololol.

Edited March 6, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Gavin_Darkl]

Good to see you are humble in victory. And as so many have said, how the **** was it my "choice"/mistake going to a low pop server? Why the **** would I start a new toon on a new server and lose all of my legacy? Now if they merge servers....lolololololol.

 

If you choose (Go into the server list pick out a low population server and create a character) that is your own fault. Not Biowares, Not some random guy on another server, it is your actions that did it.

 

I am up for Server Mergers, however I have known more and more people that have come to the server I am on and leveled up because their servers were dead. Just about all of them CHOOSE that server they were on, it was not forced upon them. Yea a few went there via the guild deal and their guilds failed. (Often times because they were a handful of players) I do feel for them however It does not take months of playing time like Vanilla WoW did or other games like DDO to hit max level. It does not really take that long, I have 1 person in the guild that has 3 level 50s and almost a 4th now. He plays about 10 to 20 hours a week.

 

If a person does not want to start new they will either merge servers or they can wait for server transfers.

[nixnaxi]

Do..do you people know how to make friends in game?

How difficult is that? How little social skills do you have to have?

 

You find a group INSTANTLY if you make friends. If everyone can dungeon finder to auto-queue, then no one makes friends in game. They just stay in their little real life circle. Or worse. You get auto-grouped with bad players. If its cross server, how do you even learn who is good and who isn't?

 

You people are insane. And I don't care how many 'substantial' argument you conjure from thin air, the premise of a cross-server auto lfg tool is fundamentally unsound, even if it isn't provably so through the raw data. Community isn't measurable through raw data. It is something that is experienced, believe it or not. You can't all be THIS anti-social...

 

Wait. Its an internet forum.

nevermind.

[Cartsky]

A dungeon finder is needed for those of us that can't play on a set schedule, and sign on whenever we're able, which is not necessarily when our friends are on and able to group up. I just wasted an hour and a half in the fleet trying to find a group, and there were 160 people in the fleet (and not one that wanted to heal a HM). So please, put a group finder in the game so that when those of with limited time sign-on we can actually do something worthwhile instead of trying to find a group.

[obinon]

There is nothing stopping a person sitting on a low population server to move to a higher population server. These people need to stop crying it takes what 80 to 100 hours to level? Play 4 hours a day for 25 days, now you are level 50. They even are planing to make leveling easier with the legacy system. People need to stop using personal choice as a crutch for why they need somebody else to take the responsibility for it.

 

that's ******** becouse when you started the game the most servers where pretty full

but they left the game for some reason.

Becouse the endgame of grinding couple daily's scaring people of.

The just need 2 merge servers otherwise this won't last a year.

[Serbeross]

It's not really about being social. The game is social. I have a guild. I have friends... I have ppl that I talk to every day.

 

That being said. I pay 15+ dollars a month to "play" this game. I play games like this for the instances and raids. The social aspects are secondary. If I want to be social, I'll go out for the night. I have a limited amount of time to play this game for which I pay and it would go a LONG way towards me continuing to pay to play this game if I did not have to waste what little time I have in game searching for people to run things with.

 

 

When there is a grand total of 81 people ( from what I've been hearing that might actually be a high number) of all levels in fleet during peak hours... the chances of finding a full group at the times I am available to run anything are pretty slim.

 

 

They need to address this and fairly quickly because I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no desire to waste my time and my money much longer.

 

It makes no sense that one would argue the WoW system ruined the community. It was a great tool (LFR is another discussion) that opened up an aspect of the game that wasn't as generally open to the entire community and gave everyone a chance to see the content.

 

 

Perhaps one should think of what part of society is introduced into a community when the ranks of that community swell to 12 million people. Perhaps when a community grows to that size the cross section of society it reflects becomes much more inclusive and when you have that large of a cross section, perhaps you have alot more of the people many of us entered this community in the first place to avoid.

 

I do not think we should say a "tool" is a bad idea based on a false premise. You always have the option not to use it, but if something is not done to make access to this content easier, you will see people look for other options for their entertainment dollars.The bottom line is those of you who feel this will "corrupt the community" and are at times almost militantly against an LFG tool in order to preserve some imaginary concept of "integrity in the community" maybe a small majority on these forums but in the actual gaming community you are a VAST minority. When this is said and done, this game is going to live and die by the decisions BW makes about gameplay and if people start feeling their access to content is being limited by no fault of their own (other than being responsible members of society, their families and their communities), those people are going to spend their money elsewhere. Then see what happens to your community. Nerdrage aside, it really is that simple.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Serbeross

[nixnaxi]

The bottom line is those of you who feel this will "corrupt the community" and are at times almost militantly against an LFG tool in order to preserve some imaginary concept of "integrity in the community"

 

 

Its hardly imaginary.

Forcing people to actually communicate with people in the game, and form bonds with other players. Forcing them to learn who does what, when, and why, allows a community to form. Forces it to form by the sheer physical reality of it.

 

The fact that you are unable to understand this is a strange thing to me. Would you have made the friends you made in real life if some part of reality hadn't forced you to communicate on some level, whether that was school projects, relatives, etc. Or even on a more basic level, and a level that is more directly related to the issue at hand, you were in whatever capacity force to speak to those soon-to-be friends. With a cross-server lfg tool, or any kind of automatic grouping system, this basic requirement of communication is not required. You can silently group, silently finish, and silently leave. There is no discover in terms of what roles that person can fill, in terms of someone you know who can fill that empty spot, etc. Without that communication, the community would suffer. Its a problem in our society even today, where people refuse to communicate with each other as much as they were once forced to. I would prefer it not enter the already anti-social environment of the MMO.

 

The people who complain that they constantly have to 'lfg' in general for any group are very simply doing it wrong. Run a few times, lfg in general a few times, and after that you should have a list of people who are around your level, who can run with you if they are online. You simply have to whisper them. Its not difficult. Just reach outside your circle.

 

If you are not willing to put in the social effort in a social game, you are free to play single player games, or wait until your friends are all online at the same time so you can play together. Its as simple as that. Frankly it bothers me that people are essentially threatening Bioware with a lost subscription because they are not giving you the ability to not fully participate in the game they made, instead wanting to only experience the content and move on.

[Moricthian]

Its hardly imaginary.

Forcing people to actually communicate with people in the game, and form bonds with other players. Forcing them to learn who does what, when, and why, allows a community to form. Forces it to form by the sheer physical reality of it.

 

The fact that you are unable to understand this is a strange thing to me. Would you have made the friends you made in real life if some part of reality hadn't forced you to communicate on some level, whether that was school projects, relatives, etc. Or even on a more basic level, and a level that is more directly related to the issue at hand, you were in whatever capacity force to speak to those soon-to-be friends. With a cross-server lfg tool, or any kind of automatic grouping system, this basic requirement of communication is not required. You can silently group, silently finish, and silently leave. There is no discover in terms of what roles that person can fill, in terms of someone you know who can fill that empty spot, etc. Without that communication, the community would suffer. Its a problem in our society even today, where people refuse to communicate with each other as much as they were once forced to. I would prefer it not enter the already anti-social environment of the MMO.

 

The people who complain that they constantly have to 'lfg' in general for any group are very simply doing it wrong. Run a few times, lfg in general a few times, and after that you should have a list of people who are around your level, who can run with you if they are online. You simply have to whisper them. Its not difficult. Just reach outside your circle.

 

If you are not willing to put in the social effort in a social game, you are free to play single player games, or wait until your friends are all online at the same time so you can play together. Its as simple as that. Frankly it bothers me that people are essentially threatening Bioware with a lost subscription because they are not giving you the ability to not fully participate in the game they made, instead wanting to only experience the content and move on.

 

lol

 

Bioware keeps listening to bad arguments like this and that's why finding groups is such a pain in the butt right now. I've already cancelled my sub due to lack of a proper tool and others will too until BW realizes the above post is filled with nothing but assumptions and unsubstantiated claims. The idea that not having a LFG tool will force players to make internet friends is foolish.

[Serbeross]

Its hardly imaginary.

Forcing people to actually communicate with people in the game, and form bonds with other players. Forcing them to learn who does what, when, and why, allows a community to form. Forces it to form by the sheer physical reality of it.

 

The fact that you are unable to understand this is a strange thing to me. Would you have made the friends you made in real life if some part of reality hadn't forced you to communicate on some level, whether that was school projects, relatives, etc. Or even on a more basic level, and a level that is more directly related to the issue at hand, you were in whatever capacity force to speak to those soon-to-be friends. With a cross-server lfg tool, or any kind of automatic grouping system, this basic requirement of communication is not required. You can silently group, silently finish, and silently leave. There is no discover in terms of what roles that person can fill, in terms of someone you know who can fill that empty spot, etc. Without that communication, the community would suffer. Its a problem in our society even today, where people refuse to communicate with each other as much as they were once forced to. I would prefer it not enter the already anti-social environment of the MMO.

 

The people who complain that they constantly have to 'lfg' in general for any group are very simply doing it wrong. Run a few times, lfg in general a few times, and after that you should have a list of people who are around your level, who can run with you if they are online. You simply have to whisper them. Its not difficult. Just reach outside your circle.

 

If you are not willing to put in the social effort in a social game, you are free to play single player games, or wait until your friends are all online at the same time so you can play together. Its as simple as that. Frankly it bothers me that people are essentially threatening Bioware with a lost subscription because they are not giving you the ability to not fully participate in the game they made, instead wanting to only experience the content and move on.

 

 

I rest my case. As I said, and as will ALWAYS remain true... the "social skills" argument is and will ultimately prove irrelevant. Social skill do not pay subscription fees and while I appreciate the irony of a MMO player chiding others about social graces, the simple fact remains that dollars will decide this. When EA/BW sends their quarterly reports to their investors stating that sub numbers are down due to the fact there are so many holes in this game, those same investors can take solace in the fact that those that actually remain have increased their social skills. Meanwhile... those that have responsibilities in the real world and are forced to be ECONOMICAL WITH THEIR TIME IN GAME have moved on to a media that allows them to use the time they do have in a way that they enjoy. So please, don't think for a minute when the decision about this is made, that someone in that room is actually going to speak up and say" but if they would just talk to each other and make friends...." It just doesn't work that way and logic like that will be why a game with such great potential, folds.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Serbeross

[Gavin_Darkl]

lol

 

Bioware keeps listening to bad arguments like this and that's why finding groups is such a pain in the butt right now. I've already cancelled my sub due to lack of a proper tool and others will too until BW realizes the above post is filled with nothing but assumptions and unsubstantiated claims. The idea that not having a LFG tool will force players to make internet friends is foolish.

 

No its not. What you said is foolish. Right now in my guild I have 20+ people that I have become friends with, some have followed me from other games to SWTOR. You people who want a Cross Server LFD tool need to go play a Lobby game or a single player game. Its not hard to make friends and be social among players. O WAIT THE LEAD DESIGNER SAID WHAT? Yes that logging on with a guild/group of friends is more enjoyable then playing the game solo. Which you do if its a Cross server LFD tool. End of Story.

[Gavin_Darkl]

I rest my case. As I said, and as will ALWAYS remain true... the "social skills" argument is and will ultimately prove irrelevant. Social skill do not pay subscription fees and while I appreciate the irony of a MMO player chiding others about social graces, the simple fact remains that dollars will decide this.

 

I like your Arrangement because it will blow up in your face. The Majority of people who have played MMOs prior to LFD tools have for the social interaction, Most of the people who don't want Social interaction play YES LOBBY GAMES or SINGLE PLAYER GAMES. I am sorry that your logic does not get that MMO players want social interaction and MMOs were and have always been designed around Social interaction going as far back as you guessed it, THE REALM.

 

Its a moot point now. You want to go back to WoW or Rift which has a Cross server LFD tool be my guest. I have friends that been waiting for BW to say there was not going to be a Cross server LFD tool because they would not play another game with one. O and BTW yes the same goes from 30+ members in my guild. Social interaction and being on vent is more important then a Lobby game.

[Orisai]

No its not. What you said is foolish. Right now in my guild I have 20+ people that I have become friends with, some have followed me from other games to SWTOR. You people who want a Cross Server LFD tool need to go play a Lobby game or a single player game. Its not hard to make friends and be social among players. O WAIT THE LEAD DESIGNER SAID WHAT? Yes that logging on with a guild/group of friends is more enjoyable then playing the game solo. Which you do if its a Cross server LFD tool. End of Story.

 

lol . .

 

Do..do you people know how to make friends in game?

How difficult is that? How little social skills do you have to have?

 

You find a group INSTANTLY if you make friends. If everyone can dungeon finder to auto-queue, then no one makes friends in game. They just stay in their little real life circle. Or worse. You get auto-grouped with bad players. If its cross server, how do you even learn who is good and who isn't?

 

You people are insane. And I don't care how many 'substantial' argument you conjure from thin air, the premise of a cross-server auto lfg tool is fundamentally unsound, even if it isn't provably so through the raw data. Community isn't measurable through raw data. It is something that is experienced, believe it or not. You can't all be THIS anti-social...

 

Wait. Its an internet forum.

nevermind.

 

If you people think you can make friends on faceless people you will never see in your entire life, then you have a very cheap concept of what friendship means. In my times we used to go outside to a bar or a nightclub to meet people and eventually, make our friends.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Orisai

[Darnu]

I've seen this argument a lot, and while it looks valid on face value, in practice it doesn't hold up. People will use what's available to them. Which in turn means you have to, as well.

 

If an LFG tool is implemented, everybody will be forced to use it. Not out of lack of options or choice, but out of sheer necessity.

 

It hasn't worked out like that in wow. In swtor I've spent so many hours trying to get a flashpoint (yes, I screwed up, somehow I ended up 4 levels too low for the content and on Voss it actually hurt so I had to level so I could do the missions I had) and nothing. Been in a group, but you can't find a tank. Just need 1 dps and a companion can be the other dps. But try to find that ONE elusive dps. It might not be an issue at 50 but when you're levelling it is. When you're in group heroics, once we made it a flashpoint. Other times people aren't interested. They're in the missioning headspace etc or logging off soon.

 

Also, friends I meet in this game are friends. Not slaves. I can't make them stop everything they are doing and come and run with me whenever I want. Or even log on, for that matter. Anyone else's guild gone AWOL?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Darnu

[chaosdefined]

Choosing to roll on a high population server isn't really an option for some of us, considering that so many of the servers are Low to Standard population. Edited March 7, 2012 by chaosdefined

[Serbeross]

No its not. What you said is foolish.

 

That my be the single most well reasoned, thought out and researched response I have ever seen on a forum. It was backed up with fact and presented in a manner in which a response could barely hope to stand against.

 

 

I will sum this up for you one more time Gavin:

 

I do not need a game to make friends.

I do not look to this game for a sense of community. I have my church, my friends, my family, my job and my neighborhood for that. Again, I do not need a video game for that.

I enjoy the irony of an MMO player lecturing others about social skills.

I play this game because there are certain features of MMOs I really enjoy: Instance, Raids and things that involve teamwork.

I pay $16 a month to play this game.

If this game continues to fall short of my expectations and continues to not be able to deliver a complete product, I will stop paying $16 dollars a month to be bored.

Bioware is a business. Businesses exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money.

When people stop paying subscription fees, businesses stop making money.

When BW stops making money on SW, SW goes away.

See what happens to your imaginary world now.

 

The bottom line is the bottom line and when enough people stop paying their fees, the bottom line gets REALLY small.

 

This is a tool. Your notion that a TOOL can ruin a community is a completely false premise. You can always choose not to use said tool. You're guild will be intact, you're little circle of "friends" will be intact, you're community will be intact and SW will be a stronger game for having it.

 

 

There are A LOT of holes in this game that Bioware needs to address and address quickly. This is one of them.

 

Edited March 7, 2012 by Serbeross

[Serbeross]

 

A LFG system also wouldn't be to the detriment of people who don't want it. If someone is picky about with whom they group or just don't like the LFG system, they don't need to use it. I don't really think it will dramatically change things for the worst. If you have to wait an hour to get a group and it falls apart, it's easy to get frustrated and leave. If you wait 30 seconds for a group and it falls apart, it's a lot easier to just hop back in the queue and try it again.

 

I know people are cancelling their subscriptions because it's too hard to get a group together to do FPs. As much as I hate comparing this game to WoW, the LFG system in WoW is actually very well done. I never had any complaints with the system, and it was something that kept me in the game longer than I may have otherwise stayed. I always knew I would be able to get a group.

 

I know that a LFG system for FPs and HM FPs is top on my wishlist and the wishlist of a lot of the people with whom I play. I don't think it's necessary for Regular Ops, and I don't think there should be one for HM Ops, but having it for FPs and HM FPs will (1) make it easier to find groups to gear up at level 50 and (2) make people more likely to run the lower level FPs while leveling, rather than just soloing them at 50 to unlock the HM.

 

 

Spot on.

[mdob]

please get us a Dungeon Finder before 1.3

[CorwinStark]

Sub cancelled until there is a Group Finder.

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[iCuD]

Sub cancelled until there is a Group Finder.

 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

This is really the main reason I left the game, that and ALL the stuff coming in 1.2

 

I looked at the 1.2 vid, HOPING to see some sort of Flashpoint Matchmaking, and nothing.

 

I guess I won't be coming back yet.

 

To those that don't want one, just don't use it. But for people like me who abhor LFG spam, or being forced to sit in a populated area to wait for a group rather than doing something productive with my time? Not having this option after using it in WoW for so long is a huge turn off.

 

I left because, as much as I enjoyed this game, I could not justify paying a monthly sub for what so far amounted to a single player experience with a few warzones thrown in.

 

What I WANT and NEED is to be able to group up with one or two or 3 of my buddies, press a button and fill the rest of what we need for a group, then do some flashpoints together during those times when they are on, and when they aren't? I will do solo stuff and explore my story.

 

IMO there is no excuse not to have these things... Just because people used to have to cook popcorn in a kettle doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to nuke mine in the microwave.

[Serbeross]

Just because people used to have to cook popcorn in a kettle doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to nuke mine in the microwave.

 

LOL... it's true.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Serbeross

[_Zorth_]

That my be the single most well reasoned, thought out and researched response I have ever seen on a forum. It was backed up with fact and presented in a manner in which a response could barely hope to stand against.

 

 

I will sum this up for you one more time Gavin:

 

I do not need a game to make friends.

I do not look to this game for a sense of community. I have my church, my friends, my family, my job and my neighborhood for that. Again, I do not need a video game for that.

I enjoy the irony of an MMO player lecturing others about social skills.

I play this game because there are certain features of MMOs I really enjoy: Instance, Raids and things that involve teamwork.

I pay $16 a month to play this game.

If this game continues to fall short of my expectations and continues to not be able to deliver a complete product, I will stop paying $16 dollars a month to be bored.

Bioware is a business. Businesses exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money.

When people stop paying subscription fees, businesses stop making money.

When BW stops making money on SW, SW goes away.

See what happens to your imaginary world now.

 

The bottom line is the bottom line and when enough people stop paying their fees, the bottom line gets REALLY small.

 

This is a tool. Your notion that a TOOL can ruin a community is a completely false premise. You can always choose not to use said tool. You're guild will be intact, you're little circle of "friends" will be intact, you're community will be intact and SW will be a stronger game for having it.

 

 

There are A LOT of holes in this game that Bioware needs to address and address quickly. This is one of them.

 

 

Awesome post.

 

Don't need a video game to make friends, It's always nice to have some gaming friends but otherwise I have a life outside the game.

 

If people don't wanna pug with a LFG tool but brag how many friends they have to play with then they shouldn't use the tool. They also don't have to constantly tell other people how to play the game or find other people to play with.

 

Am also getting tired of weak arguments like "It hurts the community, It turns people into trolls, It makes the game easy..".

 

A challenge = A boss that beats the crap out of you.

A challenge =/= making it tedious finding a group then getting to the instance.

 

[Nitewolfe]

Well today Tera announced that they will have a lfd system at launch I am going to assume it is cross server since their game has cross server lfd in the other countries its been released in.

 

Playing the closed beta test this week end!

[Touchbass]

I'm back for another month guys, yeah! I decided I wanted to finish off some of the characters I've built, yippie!

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-08-star-wars-the-old-republic-sitting-at-nearly-1-7-million-paid-subscribers

 

So what do you guys think? There goes there 85% rentention rate ... this doesn't spell well for lower population servers. Since the game is ground to a halt in subs in NA/EU and activity looks on the down, a X-LFD would do this game wonders to keep lower population servers a float.

[BlueSkittles]

I'm back for another month guys, yeah! I decided I wanted to finish off some of the characters I've built, yippie!

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-03-08-star-wars-the-old-republic-sitting-at-nearly-1-7-million-paid-subscribers

 

So what do you guys think? There goes there 85% rentention rate ... this doesn't spell well for lower population servers. Since the game is ground to a halt in subs in NA/EU and activity looks on the down, a X-LFD would do this game wonders to keep lower population servers a float.

 

Welcome back Touch! Yeah the *********** Legacy system is keeping me subscribing for now. Bastard Bioware and their cool single player implementation of guild levels from WoW.

 

Good article. But I'm thinking there still might be a steady stream of new players trying out the game as they get bored of whatever else they are playing and see what Bioware is adding. Also the giveaway to 3 friends thing might help boost populations, at least temporarily.

 

As for LFG and Bioware's implementation of it. I'm almost thinking we might see something out of left field. Such as their way of fixing the Recount issue (the WoW addon where it shows you and your groups dps numbers). They are basically only allowing you to see your damage numbers/combat log, so that you don't get that annoying person who tells you your dps sucks. Or when they allow mods, he won't have access to your direct numbers.

 

Now when it comes to LFG, perhaps they will have some other mechanic we haven't thought of to keep same-server group queue times low (if there will even be a queue system). Something maybe like a bolster system (someone else suggested) so anyone can play 10 through 50 normal/story-mode Flashpoints together. And maybe when you kill a boss you don't roll for loot, you roll for a bag that gives you level appropriate loot or some such system. Or each boss has a quest update that gives the player level appropriate loot. Also maybe when you reach a certain point in your story progression they put it in the player's face to queue for Flashpoints, so people will keep being reminded of this cool system they are missing and should queue for to help their server/fellow-players out.

 

Either way, they've made up their mind for it being same-server so I'm trying to help.