Zeratix Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 We should just bump the thread till we get an official response on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd be shocked if they actually talked to us about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baMvalO Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 LOL my dmg is still the same 200 250k per game dunno *** you talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 How are you missing the part where BW said it was a DPS increase when it's not? That's like payroll telling you they found a system error and then we were paying you too much, but they're going to reduce the cost of your medical insurance fees so that you'll get more money per paycheck. ...And then you open your first paycheck and see you are getting paid less. ^this was a good analogy. ..but srsly, what's this thread about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperQ Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 ^this was a good analogy. ..but srsly, what's this thread about? DAMAGE IS DOWN NOT UP....after the patch was supposed to correct an error and give a slight "dps" increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think this is one of the overall problems in most MMOs. There is typically no disadvantage to playing a ranged class. You are a 360 degree tab targeting turret with an extreme distance advantage, an equal amount of CC, and you do the same or more damage as melee players while many times putting obstacles or terrain between your opponents. We can go ahead and add healing and damage shields in this game for the most complained about classes. What reason is there to play melee really other than aesthetics and gimping yourself? A good melee player is a great ranged player. A great melee player is unstoppable as ranged. It comes down to this: At their ideal distance, ranged players can hit melee players, and the melee can't hit the ranged. At their ideal distance, melee players can hit ranged players, and ranged can hit the melee with no penalty. The only way this will ever change is if ranged get a severe to-hit penalty when melee are in that 1-10m range where melee are effective. Otherwise, if you want to play a melee character in pvp, you are gimping yourself because you would do better ranged. Yea back in the days in D&D i used to always play a melee. Using a bow in melee wasn't the best idea so it kind of balanced things out. Today, melee is somewhat gimped due to....well, obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethyriel Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ^this was a good analogy. ..but srsly, what's this thread about? Thread about patching gone wrong I think...^^ However, dmg done in battlegrounds doesn't matter, what matters is DPS in PVE and there is no way to tell how the classes are currently balanced. This game is pure guesswork right now, srsly sucks, i want to see the freakin combatlog and a parser to work with it so any DPS disuccion would have solid data to back it up. The devs screwed up by saying this would be a buff to dps, which it is not (only 1 talent changed, less dmg done now per bleed).. I guess if they were honest about it saing they are fixing it and there will be a small decrease to dps, nobody would be whining right now. It'S just a matter of feeding us false information, it didn't break the class, not at all, but nobody likes being lied to. I personally don'T care that much because I never thought much of BW in terms of balancing, they didn't get it right in any of their games (the singleplayer games always had 1 totally OP class/spec whatever while the rest sucked in comparison) and they won't get it right here... can'T say it often enough: Hire the guys that worked on Rift balancing, that was simply awesome, best programming I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thread about patching gone wrong I think...^^ However, dmg done in battlegrounds doesn't matter, what matters is DPS in PVE and there is no way to tell how the classes are currently balanced. This game is pure guesswork right now, srsly sucks, i want to see the freakin combatlog and a parser to work with it so any DPS disuccion would have solid data to back it up. The devs screwed up by saying this would be a buff to dps, which it is not (only 1 talent changed, less dmg done now per bleed).. I guess if they were honest about it saing they are fixing it and there will be a small decrease to dps, nobody would be whining right now. It'S just a matter of feeding us false information, it didn't break the class, not at all, but nobody likes being lied to. I personally don'T care that much because I never thought much of BW in terms of balancing, they didn't get it right in any of their games (the singleplayer games always had 1 totally OP class/spec whatever while the rest sucked in comparison) and they won't get it right here... can'T say it often enough: Hire the guys that worked on Rift balancing, that was simply awesome, best programming I've ever seen. Are you sure you aren't getting confused by the fact that they DID buff damage to your class, but the also nerfed adrenals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratix Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Are you sure you aren't getting confused by the fact that they DID buff damage to your class, but the also nerfed adrenals? The main issue is there is no proof that it was a buff. The math just purely based on the ability changes (not considering stims/adrenals etc) seems to indicate otherwise so unless bioware actually responds as to why this is a buff, we would never really know if this is a buff or not. Zerix Sith Marauder / Veela PVP Server Edited February 7, 2012 by Zeratix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviltreh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I guess no one on my server is competent then. If this sarcasm, then believe me - your pug enemies are awful. Rage is so ridiculously bad (actually Smash) it's unbelievable. I would like to see you step away from my Annihilation. When I press R, Annihilation goes off and does damage. I use Smash - IA rolls to cover, g *********** g. I even use Force Camo for **** and giggles to negate your Smash (-100% damage taken). Not to mention -30% aoe damage taken talent. Edited February 7, 2012 by Deviltreh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 i dont get why everyone is mad that BW fixed a broken skill, and then because they knew everyone was going to cry like little girls they buffed another one for us they could have just fixed bleedout and left it at that is it really because they said it was going to be a "slight" buff, but it ended up being a "slight" nerf? ... grow the f*ck up besides, good annihilation marauders know that the last thing we needed was a damage buff, a slight damage nerf is better for the game as a whole, our dps output was pretty crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDreegan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 So why doesn't anyone enter a duel with their friends of different armor classes and do their rotations. Have their friends record the % of health lost during the attacks, and the bleeds? Do this a few times and compare numbers to what you were getting prior to the patch. That is of course assuming that someone thought to do that. Especially considering it's the best way to record damage right now and it acts as a control for future experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) i dont get why everyone is mad that BW fixed a broken skill, and then because they knew everyone was going to cry like little girls they buffed another one for us they could have just fixed bleedout and left it at that is it really because they said it was going to be a "slight" buff, but it ended up being a "slight" nerf? ... grow the f*ck up besides, good annihilation marauders know that the last thing we needed was a damage buff, a slight damage nerf is better for the game as a whole, our dps output was pretty crazy They buffed it because damage output for the spec is determined after all the "necessary" talents are grabbed in a tree, and they had calculated the specs damage with a bugged talent so to compensate they tried to buff elsewhere. It was never just gonna be a straight nerf and that's it. It's the least played spec of a class 90% of its players just don't understand. Anni spec does great damage but equally played/geared vs some others we'll just always do less in a pug warzone. Marauders have a deeper toolkit and more survival, but left to tracer all day Arsenal Mercs can put serious heat on people. Edited February 7, 2012 by ShiroRX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) If your DPS went down, you aren't stacking enough crit chance + surge. You do more DPS on bleed crits now, so ensuring you get the maximum number of crits possible is essential. My current build is heavy on Fury generation and has 35% force crit chance self-buffed. With 5 Juyo stacks that's 50% crit chance, which means when I pop berserk that gives me a 100% crit chance. With heavy fury generation I can pop berserk about once every 20 seconds or so. Just had a 683 DPS warzone game with annihilation, which translates to 620,000 damage had the game lasted the entire 15 minutes. This was a solo Q game against BM sorcs/troppers. Stack Crit chance Stack Surge Enjoy the marauder. Currently using self-buffed: 35% Force Crit Chance/84.5% surge/347 power(I think that's the value, will check later and edit if necessary) Edited February 7, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 is it really because they said it was going to be a "slight" buff, but it ended up being a "slight" nerf? ... grow the f*ck up It's a 10% loss in bleed damage for PvP specs that use 1/3 Hemo. Oh, yeah, and BW said it'd be a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Anni spec does great damage but equally played/geared vs some others we'll just always do less in a pug warzone. Marauders have a deeper toolkit and more survival, but left to tracer all day Arsenal Mercs can put serious heat on people. no, marauder wont always do less in a pug warzone, in fact, i almost always do more damage than everyone else (unless its a close game and im guarding objectives) ps. if left unchecked anyone will wreck the meters ... how bout go kill that merc instead of letting him tracer spam people ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's a 10% loss in bleed damage for PvP specs that use 1/3 Hemo. Oh, yeah, and BW said it'd be a buff. so then its no change for specs that use 3/3 hemo ??? sounds like your choice to gimp your damage in favor of other talents then, hows that BWs fault ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 so then its no change for specs that use 3/3 hemo ??? No, it's a nerf for all Anni specs. Where did you randomly come to your conclusion? For specs with 3/3, it's a ~3% loss in average bleed damage. sounds like your choice to gimp your damage in favor of other talents then, hows that BWs fault ? Because they made the change and advertised it as a buff instead of what it actually is: a nerf in average damage and a more potent nerf to PvP specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cokn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It seems to be there is a problem mathematically with their calculations. Bleedout used to add a flat 30% damage to DOTs instead of crit damage. They changed this to be what was intended and to compensate added 9% extra DoT damage (2% per point vs 5% per point) for Hemorrhage. Lets use base of 100 damage per tick and break this down. Prior to Patch With no Surge (so 50% added Crit) 100 Base Damage + 6% Hemorrhage + 30% Bleedout damage = 136 Damage + 50% Crit = 204 Damage With 80% Surge 100 Base Damage + 6% Hemorrhage + 30% Bleedout damage = 136 Damage + 80% Crit = 244.8 Damage After the Patch With no Surge (so 50% added Crit) 100 Base Damage + 15% Hemorrhage = 115 Damage + 80% Crit (50 base+30 from Bleedout) = 207 Damage With 80% Surge 100 Base Damage + 15% Hemorrhage = 115 Damage + 110% Crit (80 base+30 from Bleedout) = 241.5 Damage What this means is, that while there is a slight DPS increase at low surge levels, it is flipped the higher your surge rating is. It seems like Surge rating was not taken into account when they came up with the values and determined it was a DPS increase. If you extrapolate this to the actual values for dot ticks, you will see that the gap widens. This patch is a DPS nerf to the vast majority of Marauders as they have higher surge values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 no, marauder wont always do less in a pug warzone, in fact, i almost always do more damage than everyone else (unless its a close game and im guarding objectives) ps. if left unchecked anyone will wreck the meters ... how bout go kill that merc instead of letting him tracer spam people ... i didn't say they would always do less, i said they do a lot, more than anyone if left unchecked. i know because my commando friend is prob one of the best players in any mmo, known him for years, and he crushes damage when allowed to grav round in peace. Even under duress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No, it's a nerf for all Anni specs. Where did you randomly come to your conclusion? For specs with 3/3, it's a ~3% loss in average bleed damage. 3% nerf ... our damage is still on the high side ... no big deal if you dont take 3/3 hemo ... thats a choice you make, you cant fault BW for that Because they made the change and advertised it as a buff instead of what it actually is: a nerf in average damage and a more potent nerf to PvP specs. ok, so were back to my original question, is this really what people are mad about ???? ... grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 3% nerf ... our damage is still on the high side ... no big deal if you dont take 3/3 hemo ... thats a choice you make, you cant fault BW for that ok, so were back to my original question, is this really what people are mad about ???? ... grow up if you can't understand why people are mad about being lied to, then there is no use discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShiroRX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It seems to be there is a problem mathematically with their calculations. Bleedout used to add a flat 30% damage to DOTs instead of crit damage. They changed this to be what was intended and to compensate added 9% extra DoT damage (2% per point vs 5% per point) for Hemorrhage. Lets use base of 100 damage per tick and break this down. Prior to Patch With no Surge (so 50% added Crit) 100 Base Damage + 6% Hemorrhage + 30% Bleedout damage = 136 Damage + 50% Crit = 204 Damage With 80% Surge 100 Base Damage + 6% Hemorrhage + 30% Bleedout damage = 136 Damage + 80% Crit = 244.8 Damage After the Patch With no Surge (so 50% added Crit) 100 Base Damage + 15% Hemorrhage = 115 Damage + 80% Crit (50 base+30 from Bleedout) = 207 Damage With 80% Surge 100 Base Damage + 15% Hemorrhage = 115 Damage + 110% Crit (80 base+30 from Bleedout) = 241.5 Damage What this means is, that while there is a slight DPS increase at low surge levels, it is flipped the higher your surge rating is. It seems like Surge rating was not taken into account when they came up with the values and determined it was a DPS increase. If you extrapolate this to the actual values for dot ticks, you will see that the gap widens. This patch is a DPS nerf to the vast majority of Marauders as they have higher surge values. I wonder what the damage looks like when power is valued higher than surge (i.e. like our gear is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 if you can't understand why people are mad about being lied to, then there is no use discussing it. i cant understand how something as inconsequential as a video game can get peoples panties in such giant bunches do i like people i know lying to my face? of course not do i like a random game development company telling me that my character is going to get a "slight" buff, but instead giving me a "slight" nerf ... couldnt care less so yea, i dont get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatne Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Bit offtopic but -1 subscriber, to hell with companies which lie to its customers. Cya in Dark Millenium. Peace Pretty sure it's cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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